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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5916

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 16:48:03
November 04 2016 16:46 GMT
#118301
How utterly sad is it that at least 3 or 4 Trump supporters in this thread have, at different times, tried to justify their support by saying he will be kept in check by the institutions, and will not be able to do the things he says he wants to do (including those things that are under the purview of the executive).

And he asked why we can't use our nukes if we have them.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
November 04 2016 16:48 GMT
#118302
On November 05 2016 01:43 BallinWitStalin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 01:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On November 05 2016 00:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On November 05 2016 00:03 The_Templar wrote:
On November 04 2016 23:54 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
On November 04 2016 23:26 farvacola wrote:
On November 04 2016 23:25 Uldridge wrote:
Will this have been the most drama filled election in US history?
It's just astounding howmuch shit keeps hitting the fan every moment.. Truly incredible

I doubt it; the elections leading up to and surrounding the Civil War likely put this one to shame in that department, though it's virtually impossible to go about qualifying such an observation.

Decent chance whoever wins that there will be a civil war in the US again.
We're just looking at polar opposites the two sides here.
Can you imagine for instance San Francisco if Trump wins?
Chaos.Ungovernable.Guaranteed riots in the streets, guaranteed.
A Clinton win, just 11 days after a fresh FBI investigation launched? No, that ain't healthy for civil order either.

Don't be ridiculous. There won't be a civil war over the result of a single election.

Has there been a time since the civil war when America was this divided?
And IMO the division is getting worse not better.


This is a textbook case of, "My time is the most dramatic/intense ever!"

Many people (particularly younger individuals) do this a lot; they see strife or difficulty in their time and think that it could have never been this bad, without having any real perspective on what was really happening throughout history.

There have been some pretty awful times in American history. This definitely isn't one of the worst. The economy is doing fairly well, crime is down, etc. etc. etc. The only thing that makes it seem bad is social media-driven echo chambers that constantly perpetuate lies and myths to galvanize each side's unbridled anger at each other.


I never understood that perspective. Like, people really need to attempt to put themselves into other times. Right now, Americans live in the most objectively powerful and rich country/empire in the history of the world. They live with fantastic technology, live in a peaceful society that lacks war, low crime, lots of opportunity (although this could be better), etc. Corruption is definitely a legitimate issue, but this whole "ITS SO BAD FUCK IT LETS WATCH IT BURN" attitude is frankly bizarre; Americans have it really fucking good (for the most part) compared to most humans on the globe today and historically. There's lots of stuff you can improve on (what society is perfect?), but good lord living standards could get so much fucking worse.

Like, good god World war 1 and 2 were terrible times to be alive. The great depression, Vietnam, the Cuban missile crisis, the entire fucking cold war, literal segregation based on race -> these are all things people living today have experienced, and yet somehow young people nowadays think things are currently awful because of an e-mail scandal? There were literal genocidal purges of millions of people in developed countries, 25% unemployment, internment camps (in America!), and a high chance of a nuclear holocaust for like 50 years. How do these things even compare to what's going on today? And yet people act like it's the end of the world....


well, we can always strive to be better - how bad a problem is really all relative. though the entire sky is falling and moaning about the end of civilization is a little overwrought.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 04 2016 16:52 GMT
#118303
I'm curious...

Poll: Which statement best describes your candidate preference?

I'm primarily voting (or would vote) for the candidate I do like. (17)
 
59%

I'm primarily voting (or would vote) against the candidate I don't like. (12)
 
41%

29 total votes

Your vote: Which statement best describes your candidate preference?

(Vote): I'm primarily voting (or would vote) against the candidate I don't like.
(Vote): I'm primarily voting (or would vote) for the candidate I do like.

History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 16:54:03
November 04 2016 16:52 GMT
#118304
While you guys are drinking the 'trump is going to bring the apocalypse' kool aid, realize that clinton and Putin have a personal deep seated animosity towards each other. This combined with her poor judgement and having a chip on her shoulder for being a woman president and to be "strong", can easily result in war. This is before considering the alleged interference in the election by Russia, so you can bet she has a personal agenda on top of all of the above. Carry on
Question.?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 04 2016 16:53 GMT
#118305
It doesn’t help that CNN live streams 20 people destroying a car and says “rioting in progress” like a destroyed car is a riot.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
November 04 2016 16:58 GMT
#118306
On November 05 2016 01:52 biology]major wrote:
While you guys are drinking the 'trump is going to bring the apocalypse' kool aid, realize that clinton and Putin have a personal deep seated animosity towards each other. This combined with her poor judgement and having a chip on her shoulder for being a woman president and to be "strong", can easily result in war. This is before considering the alleged interference in the election by Russia, so you can bet she has a personal agenda on top of all of the above. Carry on

Clintoo and Putin both are not idiots. They know the dangers. Trump doesn't.
Get off my lawn, young punks
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32755 Posts
November 04 2016 17:03 GMT
#118307
On November 05 2016 01:52 biology]major wrote:
While you guys are drinking the 'trump is going to bring the apocalypse' kool aid, realize that clinton and Putin have a personal deep seated animosity towards each other. This combined with her poor judgement and having a chip on her shoulder for being a woman president and to be "strong", can easily result in war. This is before considering the alleged interference in the election by Russia, so you can bet she has a personal agenda on top of all of the above. Carry on

The world survived decades of the Cold War under far more tense circumstances. I don't think some suspicion and animosity between Clinton and Putin will spark war.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 17:04:19
November 04 2016 17:03 GMT
#118308
On November 05 2016 01:52 biology]major wrote:
While you guys are drinking the 'trump is going to bring the apocalypse' kool aid, realize that clinton and Putin have a personal deep seated animosity towards each other. This combined with her poor judgement and having a chip on her shoulder for being a woman president and to be "strong", can easily result in war. This is before considering the alleged interference in the election by Russia, so you can bet she has a personal agenda on top of all of the above. Carry on


Much preferable to Trumpotov-Ribbentrop or whatever the Donald has planned. Trying to be buddies with dictators doesn't automatically mean that you're one of the good guys or after peace
juliansniff
Profile Joined August 2011
United States50 Posts
November 04 2016 17:03 GMT
#118309
On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing.


I've always found this correlation depressing. It makes me wonder whether there should be some sort minimal voter education requirements, but that seems blatantly unconstitutional.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
November 04 2016 17:05 GMT
#118310
On November 05 2016 02:03 Oswald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing.


I've always found this correlation depressing. It makes me wonder whether there should be some sort minimal voter education requirements, but that seems blatantly unconstitutional.


this is when i mutter "democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest" to myself.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 04 2016 17:05 GMT
#118311
On November 05 2016 02:03 Oswald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing.


I've always found this correlation depressing. It makes me wonder whether there should be some sort minimal voter education requirements, but that seems blatantly unconstitutional.

Those used to exist. They were used as a pretty explicit form of racial discrimination.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 17:11:31
November 04 2016 17:06 GMT
#118312
On November 05 2016 01:24 ZeaL. wrote:
I fucking hate Trump but I could imagine myself as a conservative who would vote for Trump with the belief that he will simply be a figurehead. Pence and the legislature will run the country and while he posts conservative SC justices and runs around bloviating to the base.

The curious thing about conservatives that hold this position is that they have to recognize that their position is also irreconcilable with a large component of Trump's base--those who view Trump as an anti-establishment candidate and detest the GOP old guard. Getting what they want for the next 4 years isn't going to make those people go away, and they need to answer to those people in a better way than "suck up to Trump + business as usual".

On November 05 2016 01:52 biology]major wrote:
While you guys are drinking the 'trump is going to bring the apocalypse' kool aid, realize that clinton and Putin have a personal deep seated animosity towards each other. This combined with her poor judgement and having a chip on her shoulder for being a woman president and to be "strong", can easily result in war. This is before considering the alleged interference in the election by Russia, so you can bet she has a personal agenda on top of all of the above. Carry on

Clinton is not stupid. She is hawkish, is inimical toward Russia, has something to prove, and has displayed poor judgment in complex FP scenarios in the past. But she also acts rationally and has sufficient knowledge of the risks.

I expect her to make mistakes again in complex FP scenarios. I do not expect her to do obviously stupid things because that's simply not within her range. Outright war with Russia falls in that category of "obviously stupid things".
Moderator
CobaltBlu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States919 Posts
November 04 2016 17:08 GMT
#118313
I like how biology]major managed to slip 'being a woman' in there as a negative for Clinton.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 04 2016 17:09 GMT
#118314
I wonder to what extent people buy into Hillary's hawkish Russia position over the leaks. It reminds me of Nixon's "my opponent is a communist sympathizer" game that eventually people got pretty sick of that contributed to an unfortunate political climate.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
November 04 2016 17:12 GMT
#118315
On November 05 2016 02:08 CobaltBlu wrote:
I like how biology]major managed to slip 'being a woman' in there as a negative for Clinton.


Being a woman is not a negative, but you are a moron if you think women in power don't face certain pressures that men don't. She can easily overcompensate in the face of such pressure and amplify her hawkishness.

User was warned for this post
Question.?
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-04 17:16:07
November 04 2016 17:14 GMT
#118316
edit: i changed my mind, I don't wanna post here anymore. I can't wait for this election to be over.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 04 2016 17:14 GMT
#118317
On November 05 2016 02:05 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2016 02:03 Oswald wrote:
On November 05 2016 01:06 Plansix wrote:
I have noticed this trend of Trump super fans and a complete failure of civics education. I’m not surprised, but it is depressing.


I've always found this correlation depressing. It makes me wonder whether there should be some sort minimal voter education requirements, but that seems blatantly unconstitutional.

Those used to exist. They were used as a pretty explicit form of racial discrimination.
Hamilton wrote several papers inwhy only land owners should vote. But most Americans couldn't read back then.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 04 2016 17:16 GMT
#118318
On November 05 2016 02:08 CobaltBlu wrote:
I like how biology]major managed to slip 'being a woman' in there as a negative for Clinton.

He is pretty good at that. Just far enough where it can always be walked back.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 04 2016 17:16 GMT
#118319
On November 05 2016 02:08 CobaltBlu wrote:
I like how biology]major managed to slip 'being a woman' in there as a negative for Clinton.

She's made it a common theme that reappears in speeches from time to time. In a debate, she answered how she'd govern differently than Obama by stating that she'd be a woman. I can see where biology would conclude she has a chip on her shoulder. I more think its from having to put up with Bill Clinton's philandering and better political charm for so many years until it was her "turn."
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 04 2016 17:17 GMT
#118320
How can Hillary be part of the establishment when she is a woman running for president?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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