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On July 31 2016 23:27 RolleMcKnolle wrote:
can someone explain to me the reason why society expects candidates to publish their tax returns? Not that I think trump and Clinton aren't particularly suited for that request, but why is it expected in general? I have never heard of that in another country.
For example to check that there is not something really fishy about where they get their money from or that they don't outright lie about how much money they have, in case it happens that they have been boasting about it for years.
Considering the incestuous relationship between money and politics in America, at least a bit of transparency is the least one can expect.
Now the Donald, on top of having yuuuge genitals, also has been claiming for years he had 10 billion dollars which is probably a joke. So no tax return.
The whole thing would all be funny (and a monument to human stupidity) if it was not terrifying.
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The reason they are asking for Tax returns from Trump is because Trump is telling his supporters he'd be a good prez becuase he's a good business man. Tax returns will tell us what he makes, how he makes it, and how much of it gets taxed.
The reason they were asking for Bernie's Tax Returns is because his wife was suspected of shady acts and the opposing party wanted it revealed. Much like Bernie, Trump will never release it.
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The release of tax returns has always been something of a presidential gesture of transparency above all else. As to the actual usefulness of the information itself, I think with Trump there is unique value in having a means of assessing his taxable worth.
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I would argue Trump's tax returns are the backbone of his entire campaign. They would validate or disprove his entire message. I think that is why he's not releasing them.
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On July 31 2016 18:45 Ravianna26 wrote:
Clinton using that poor man's son's death to attempt to manipulate people into voting for her is disgraceful and yet another reason not to vote for her. If I wasn't voting for Trump I'd write in Ben Carson or Ted Cruz. Clinton is worse than what people falsely accuse Trump of being.
Holy shit be more of a hypocrite. Trump "used" stuff like that several times during the RNC
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I tell you folks, what I'm hearing from folks is they're not pretty. These are folks who have seen the returns, the numbers are -- well, I don't how to say it. I would be disappointed. I'm not saying they aren't pretty, I'm just repeating what I've heard.
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If I were a billionaire I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell I'd ever release my tax returns. It's already a hell of a lot of information to put into the open without being a billionaire.
I will say that it seems like people cared more about Romney's returns than Trump's. Trump said, "nah not happening" and it basically ended on that.
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On July 31 2016 23:27 RolleMcKnolle wrote:
can someone explain to me the reason why society expects candidates to publish their tax returns? Not that I think trump and Clinton aren't particularly suited for that request, but why is it expected in general? I have never heard of that in another country.
Because money flows so freely into politics in the US.
In Europe there are many laws about entities contributing to a politician so there is less need for transparency.
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How does this set the record straight? The transcript is the same as the video I watched and his statement only includes a one sentence platitude about Mr. Khan's son.
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On August 01 2016 00:57 CobaltBlu wrote:How does this set the record straight? The transcript is the same as the video I watched and his statement only includes a one sentence platitude about Mr. Khan's son.
And the mention of generals, lol. Trump's logic would mean scientists around the globe are all doing poorly. Biochemists haven't solved aging. Physicists haven't achieved cold fusion. Chemists can't make a room temperature superconductor. These core objectives have been worked on for many years and we are still not close to solving any of them. The collective effort of our planet has "not been doing well".
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While I'd be interested to see Trump's returns; there's enough information already to determine my vote (not him) so it's hardly a necessity.
I do wonder if the returns were released and it showed he was a lot poorer than he claimed to be, if that would affect any of his supporters' views.
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On August 01 2016 01:06 zlefin wrote:
While I'd be interested to see Trump's returns; there's enough information already to determine my vote (not him) so it's hardly a necessity.
I do wonder if the returns were released and it showed he was a lot poorer than he claimed to be, if that would affect any of his supporters' views.
While I highly doubt that it would change the views of a lot of persons it would just add up to the already present things he lies about. In my opinion, this vote will mostly be about who people want less and therefor vote against then what it actually should be. US voting system is a joke.
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If he's not releasing his returns, then he's got something he's hiding - something he doesn't want made public.
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On August 01 2016 01:17 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
If he's not releasing his returns, then he's got something he's hiding - something he doesn't want made public.
Not really. Would you release yours?
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On August 01 2016 01:06 zlefin wrote:
While I'd be interested to see Trump's returns; there's enough information already to determine my vote (not him) so it's hardly a necessity.
I do wonder if the returns were released and it showed he was a lot poorer than he claimed to be, if that would affect any of his supporters' views.
Nope. Virtually all of them would rationalize it away instantly with one or another rationalization helpfully supplied through social media or the campaign itself.
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On August 01 2016 01:16 stichlasser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2016 01:06 zlefin wrote:
While I'd be interested to see Trump's returns; there's enough information already to determine my vote (not him) so it's hardly a necessity.
I do wonder if the returns were released and it showed he was a lot poorer than he claimed to be, if that would affect any of his supporters' views. While I highly doubt that it would change the views of a lot of persons it would just add up to the already present things he lies about. In my opinion, this vote will mostly be about who people want less and therefor vote against then what it actually should be. US voting system is a joke.
Trump voters are not "so long as its not clinton" voters--Trump voters are the same as the Bernie voters. Anti-establishment folks who wants a shakeup no matter who is in office. The gather up and listen to whoever yells the loudest most extreme ideas because they think that extremism is the only way the world changes.
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On July 31 2016 16:24 writer22816 wrote:
I can't be bothered to read through all the recent posts in this thread, but have any of the more reasonable Trump-supporters here disavowed yet? (I know there are a few of you here, like xDaunt and Testie I think...) Between him calling on Russian hackers to commit espionage, lying about the NFL regarding the presidential debates, and personally insulting Khan's wife, he literally couldn't have done a better job of proving his critics right. His personality and temperament alone are sufficient reasons to disqualify him from presidency, I mean fuck this guy is more toxic than any of the assholes I've met playing dota or csgo lol.
Personally I'm moderately right-leaning, and I disagree with a lot of dem policies, but that's besides the point when Trump is the alternative. Can we collectively have the integrity to vote for the nation first and our party lines second in November?
Well said sir. Trump is a dice roll with the presidency. Actually worse than that, because of the power in his hands.
Some of them did seem to acknowledge he's a dice roll. By repetition it eventually becomes obvious that it's not the media, Trump is saying it all himself.
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On August 01 2016 01:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Trump voters are not "so long as its not clinton" voters--Trump voters are the same as the Bernie voters. Anti-establishment folks who wants a shakeup no matter who is in office. The gather up and listen to whoever yells the loudest most extreme ideas because they think that extremism is the only way the world changes.
So all the Bernie voters will now go to Trump because he will shake things up?  I read some statistics about whos voting for who and why (sorry, i can't remember where I read it) and half of the people were saying "so Trump/Hillary, doesnt win". Then we add the other half of "shake it up" and we have all the Trump voters ...
More seriously: Is the idea of "shaking up" by voting the loudest/most extremist candidate going to change anything? I see tendencies for that in Germany/Europe and I'm pretty sure people don't understand how a Democracy votes or to be more precisely that it isn't the president who makes laws or decides important matters ...
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On August 01 2016 01:43 stichlasser wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2016 01:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Trump voters are not "so long as its not clinton" voters--Trump voters are the same as the Bernie voters. Anti-establishment folks who wants a shakeup no matter who is in office. The gather up and listen to whoever yells the loudest most extreme ideas because they think that extremism is the only way the world changes. So all the Bernie voters will now go to Trump because he will shake things up? I read some statistics about whos voting for who and why (sorry, i can't remember where I read it) and half of the people were saying "so Trump/Hillary, doesnt win". Then we add the other half of "shake it up" and we have all the Trump voters ... More seriously: Is the idea of "shaking up" by voting the loudest/most extremist candidate going to change anything? I see tendencies for that in Germany/Europe and I'm pretty sure people don't understand how a Democracy votes or to be more precisely that it isn't the president who makes laws or decides important matters ...
Just listen to what their supporters say. For the most part they want to have already pre-supposed values before discussions are made to see what's doable.
Trump says he'll build a wall, that he'll get rid of muslims, to help whites, to cut taxes, etc... The details and what actually is workable is not important to them because they want the general feeling that their emotions have been sated.
The same is true with Bernie supporters.
Bernie says $15 minimum wage while clinton says that $12 was the average they saw but its really different depending on what state you're looking at. Bernie then accuses hilary of being anti-minimum wage. Why? because she didn't throw the biggest number. Its the same with everything else between Hilary and Bernie. They have the exact same platform but Hilary wants to be open to discussion while Bernie has clear statements of who the good guys and bad guys are "supporters good, banks bad, supporters good, non-supporters bad" and the rhetoric does not but make his supporters rabid xenophobes to anyone who isn't on their side (not much different than Trump)
The main difference is that Trump divides by race while Bernie divides by class. But their strategies are not that different overall.
Populists like extreme statements because it makes them feel good. They don't want someone to say that they will work with others, they want to hear their guy say that they will destroy the opposition. Not that the country is having a hard time, but that the country is about to die. They don't like any concessions in anything.
At least trump supporters vote for their beliefs. Its obvious Bernie supporters are happy enough whining but don't actually vote.
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EPT
