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On July 28 2016 02:24 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:19 xDaunt wrote:
Saying that Russia should release the emails if it has them is no where close to encouraging espionage. Saying that he "hopes that Russia finds the missing emails" comes closer if you look at the statement in a vacuum with no context, but obviously Russia can't hack what's no longer there.
Let's just cut through the crap and identify what Trump has done: he has gloriously trolled Hillary and the democrats and hijacked the Democrat National Convention. He's running circles around the democrats and they're too stupid to understand why or how he's doing it, hence the faux outrage over these latest statements -- all of which just plays right into Trump's hand. "Russia, please release the product of your espionage to damage my political opponent." xDaunt: not an issue. And your default disbelief of what the media pays attention to regarding Trump is very unfortunate. Without being able to tie your opinions to the media (an easy target) I doubt you would support Trump.
This is what you liberals don't understand about Trump voters. We aren't a monolithic block. We each have our own reasons. Some relate to specific policies. Some relate to dissatisfaction with the alternative. For all of us, however, there is one very nice benefit: it's so much fucking fun.
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On July 28 2016 02:18 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:15 LegalLord wrote:On July 28 2016 02:10 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
It's not the Russians' fault that the emails contain what they do. Spinning this as if it were is in fact blaming the Russians.
You're conflating blaming the Russians for the hack and blaming them for the content of the emails. On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
My opinion of Obama is that he is not an FP president and he chose a pretty terrible advisor in Hillary Clinton. That is what it would be regardless of the Ukraine situation. Beside the point of whether you'd criticize him for being weak on Crimea. Blaming the Russians for the hack is an attempt to sidestep the issue of the contents of the hack. Foreign governments hacking your servers is neither unusual nor suspicious because everyone does it to everyone. Leaking the contents, a bit less so, but also not something all that out of the ordinary. Still no conclusive proof that it is Russia either. I gave you my thoughts on Obama's FP. That is hardly beside the point. I don't really think in terms of "weak or strong" but more in "foolish or well-planned" action. Stating a general opinion on Obama's FP is beside the point of a specific question on a specific issue. Both the contents of the hack and the hack itself can be big issues. You are clearly downplaying the latter.
My general opinion is my specific opinion.
The latter is an issue of the DNC and how fucking bad it is at protecting its own servers. I have mentioned this in the past and the hackee matters more than the hacker.
On July 28 2016 02:25 silynxer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:24 LegalLord wrote:On July 28 2016 02:17 silynxer wrote:On July 28 2016 02:15 LegalLord wrote:On July 28 2016 02:10 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
It's not the Russians' fault that the emails contain what they do. Spinning this as if it were is in fact blaming the Russians.
You're conflating blaming the Russians for the hack and blaming them for the content of the emails. On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
My opinion of Obama is that he is not an FP president and he chose a pretty terrible advisor in Hillary Clinton. That is what it would be regardless of the Ukraine situation. Beside the point of whether you'd criticize him for being weak on Crimea. Blaming the Russians for the hack is an attempt to sidestep the issue of the contents of the hack. Foreign governments hacking your servers is neither unusual nor suspicious because everyone does it to everyone. Leaking the contents, a bit less so, but also not something all that out of the ordinary. Still no conclusive proof that it is Russia either. I gave you my thoughts on Obama's FP. That is hardly beside the point. I don't really think in terms of "weak or strong" but more in "foolish or well-planned" action. Can you name other relevant examples? Preferably done to the US by another Government. Relevant examples of hacking servers? I'm afraid that kind of hack is rarely successful and even more rarely reported. The most unusual thing about (if Russia actually did it) this hack is that it was leaked. General political espionage? At least a few cases of that. Honestly it's one of those things that most people know happen and you have to be sort of naive to think it doesn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_operations_in_the_United_Stateshttp://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squarcini-dcri-hollande-ayrault-merkel-usa-obama Relevant means releasing information obtained by espionage to influence an election.
As mentioned before, leaks are pretty rare. I'm sure a substantial number of works from Wikileaks came from government sources though.
Keep in mind proof is hard to come by. No solid proof this is Russia quite yet - just strong suspicions.
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On July 28 2016 02:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:24 xDaunt wrote:On July 28 2016 02:23 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2016 02:19 xDaunt wrote:
Saying that Russia should release the emails if it has them is no where close to encouraging espionage. Saying that he "hopes that Russia finds the missing emails" comes closer if you look at the statement in a vacuum with no context, but obviously Russia can't hack what's no longer there.
Let's just cut through the crap and identify what Trump has done: he has gloriously trolled Hillary and the democrats and hijacked the Democrat National Convention. He's running circles around the democrats and they're too stupid to understand why or how he's doing it, hence the faux outrage over these latest statements -- all of which just plays right into Trump's hand. I don't get why this is supposed to be "glorious trolling". He's just pulled politics down to the level of a reality TV shitshow. That's not because he's smarter as anybody else, it's simply because he knows no borders (ironically) and behaves as obscenely as he possibly can. You are badly underestimating Trump if you don't think that this press conference or his comments were calculated. You routinely overestimate and rationalize Trump's narcissistic actions.
Narcissism has it's own logic though. Trump can be doing what he feels he has to because he's a narcissist, and that something can also be a brilliant PR move, because narcissism thrives on publicity.
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On July 28 2016 02:27 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:24 farvacola wrote:
Zeo's posting frequency goes way up when people start talking about Russia, it's really quite funny. Don't blow your cover, dude! Its cute how you follow me around, do you have a little wall in your bedroom with my posts?
No, but I'm sure I could get Mexico to build one for me.
Narcissism is rarely self-aware, by the way 
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On July 28 2016 02:28 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:24 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:19 xDaunt wrote:
Saying that Russia should release the emails if it has them is no where close to encouraging espionage. Saying that he "hopes that Russia finds the missing emails" comes closer if you look at the statement in a vacuum with no context, but obviously Russia can't hack what's no longer there.
Let's just cut through the crap and identify what Trump has done: he has gloriously trolled Hillary and the democrats and hijacked the Democrat National Convention. He's running circles around the democrats and they're too stupid to understand why or how he's doing it, hence the faux outrage over these latest statements -- all of which just plays right into Trump's hand. "Russia, please release the product of your espionage to damage my political opponent." xDaunt: not an issue. And your default disbelief of what the media pays attention to regarding Trump is very unfortunate. Without being able to tie your opinions to the media (an easy target) I doubt you would support Trump. This is what you liberals don't understand about Trump voters. We aren't a monolithic block. We each have our own reasons. Some relate to specific policies. Some relate to dissatisfaction with the alternative. For all of us, however, there is one very nice benefit: it's so much fucking fun.
Yeah, but you would be flipping your shit if Obama called for anyone to steal and release Trumps tax returns.
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On July 28 2016 02:24 farvacola wrote:
Zeo's posting frequency goes way up when people start talking about Russia, it's really quite funny. Don't blow your cover, dude!
People talk more about issues they care about more. Surprise surprise?
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On July 28 2016 02:13 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 22:16 WhiteDog wrote:On July 27 2016 21:46 farvacola wrote:
Hillary won't balance the budget on the backs of the poor and she won't nominate SC justices who'll do things like try and overturn Roe v. Wade. That's all I really need, and believe me, there's plenty more, particularly with regards to federal agency direction. Don't be so sure of that tho. In France, we elected a socialist in 2012 who argued that his ennemy was "finance" and who promised to tax up to 75 % every bit of income above 1 million euro. In the end, he forgot all his promises and pushed forward a neoliberal agenda like any right wing president. France isn't an independent nation, whitedoge, it's governed by financial technocrats in the troika. Gary Johnson couldn't completely turn his state into a libertarian utopia anymore than France can turn its back on financial liberalization.
You are right of course, but the people of the european thread don't agree with this and think eurotopia is perfect.
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Ahhh when you guys resort to slander I know you have nothing to back up your claims and are getting nervous
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On July 28 2016 02:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:28 xDaunt wrote:On July 28 2016 02:24 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:19 xDaunt wrote:
Saying that Russia should release the emails if it has them is no where close to encouraging espionage. Saying that he "hopes that Russia finds the missing emails" comes closer if you look at the statement in a vacuum with no context, but obviously Russia can't hack what's no longer there.
Let's just cut through the crap and identify what Trump has done: he has gloriously trolled Hillary and the democrats and hijacked the Democrat National Convention. He's running circles around the democrats and they're too stupid to understand why or how he's doing it, hence the faux outrage over these latest statements -- all of which just plays right into Trump's hand. "Russia, please release the product of your espionage to damage my political opponent." xDaunt: not an issue. And your default disbelief of what the media pays attention to regarding Trump is very unfortunate. Without being able to tie your opinions to the media (an easy target) I doubt you would support Trump. This is what you liberals don't understand about Trump voters. We aren't a monolithic block. We each have our own reasons. Some relate to specific policies. Some relate to dissatisfaction with the alternative. For all of us, however, there is one very nice benefit: it's so much fucking fun. Yeah, but you would be flipping your shit if Obama called for anyone to steal and release Trumps tax returns.
The correct analogy is to call for someone who already stole Trump's tax returns to release them.
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On July 28 2016 02:28 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:24 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:19 xDaunt wrote:
Saying that Russia should release the emails if it has them is no where close to encouraging espionage. Saying that he "hopes that Russia finds the missing emails" comes closer if you look at the statement in a vacuum with no context, but obviously Russia can't hack what's no longer there.
Let's just cut through the crap and identify what Trump has done: he has gloriously trolled Hillary and the democrats and hijacked the Democrat National Convention. He's running circles around the democrats and they're too stupid to understand why or how he's doing it, hence the faux outrage over these latest statements -- all of which just plays right into Trump's hand. "Russia, please release the product of your espionage to damage my political opponent." xDaunt: not an issue. And your default disbelief of what the media pays attention to regarding Trump is very unfortunate. Without being able to tie your opinions to the media (an easy target) I doubt you would support Trump. This is what you liberals don't understand about Trump voters. We aren't a monolithic block. We each have our own reasons. Some relate to specific policies. Some relate to dissatisfaction with the alternative. For all of us, however, there is one very nice benefit: it's so much fucking fun.
I'm just observing the proximity of media criticism and Trump approval in your posts.
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On July 28 2016 02:28 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 28 2016 02:24 xDaunt wrote:On July 28 2016 02:23 Nyxisto wrote:On July 28 2016 02:19 xDaunt wrote:
Saying that Russia should release the emails if it has them is no where close to encouraging espionage. Saying that he "hopes that Russia finds the missing emails" comes closer if you look at the statement in a vacuum with no context, but obviously Russia can't hack what's no longer there.
Let's just cut through the crap and identify what Trump has done: he has gloriously trolled Hillary and the democrats and hijacked the Democrat National Convention. He's running circles around the democrats and they're too stupid to understand why or how he's doing it, hence the faux outrage over these latest statements -- all of which just plays right into Trump's hand. I don't get why this is supposed to be "glorious trolling". He's just pulled politics down to the level of a reality TV shitshow. That's not because he's smarter as anybody else, it's simply because he knows no borders (ironically) and behaves as obscenely as he possibly can. You are badly underestimating Trump if you don't think that this press conference or his comments were calculated. You routinely overestimate and rationalize Trump's narcissistic actions. Narcissism has it's own logic though. Trump can be doing what he feels he has to because he's a narcissist, and that something can also be a brilliant PR move, because narcissism thrives on publicity.
This is exactly the point.
Basically all of Trump's actions are short-sighted outbursts meant to preserve his own ego.
Meanwhile, his hoard of followers (including most conservative posters here, e.g. xDaunt, Biology, Legal, etc.) will try to rationalize it any way they can so that the cognitive dissonance for one that sees themselves as rational or intelligent isn't so incredibly painful.
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On July 28 2016 02:28 LegalLord wrote:
Blaming the Russians for the hack is an attempt to sidestep the issue of the contents of the hack. Foreign governments hacking your servers is neither unusual nor suspicious because everyone does it to everyone. Leaking the contents, a bit less so, but also not something all that out of the ordinary. Still no conclusive proof that it is Russia either.
On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
As mentioned before, leaks are pretty rare.
Mmh.
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On July 28 2016 02:32 silynxer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:28 LegalLord wrote:
Blaming the Russians for the hack is an attempt to sidestep the issue of the contents of the hack. Foreign governments hacking your servers is neither unusual nor suspicious because everyone does it to everyone. Leaking the contents, a bit less so, but also not something all that out of the ordinary. Still no conclusive proof that it is Russia either. Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
As mentioned before, leaks are pretty rare. Mmh.
If you want to say that leaking documents is unusual, then yes that much is true. It's been done by Russia in recent years, but it's not standard practice for most situations. Though it isn't unprecedented either.
Specific example of another leak meant to influence opinions: Russia's leak of "fuck the EU" phone call by Victoria Nuland. A lot of other examples are obviously anonymous.
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On July 28 2016 02:30 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:29 Plansix wrote:On July 28 2016 02:28 xDaunt wrote:On July 28 2016 02:24 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:19 xDaunt wrote:
Saying that Russia should release the emails if it has them is no where close to encouraging espionage. Saying that he "hopes that Russia finds the missing emails" comes closer if you look at the statement in a vacuum with no context, but obviously Russia can't hack what's no longer there.
Let's just cut through the crap and identify what Trump has done: he has gloriously trolled Hillary and the democrats and hijacked the Democrat National Convention. He's running circles around the democrats and they're too stupid to understand why or how he's doing it, hence the faux outrage over these latest statements -- all of which just plays right into Trump's hand. "Russia, please release the product of your espionage to damage my political opponent." xDaunt: not an issue. And your default disbelief of what the media pays attention to regarding Trump is very unfortunate. Without being able to tie your opinions to the media (an easy target) I doubt you would support Trump. This is what you liberals don't understand about Trump voters. We aren't a monolithic block. We each have our own reasons. Some relate to specific policies. Some relate to dissatisfaction with the alternative. For all of us, however, there is one very nice benefit: it's so much fucking fun. Yeah, but you would be flipping your shit if Obama called for anyone to steal and release Trumps tax returns. The correct analogy is to call for someone who already stole Trump's tax returns to release them.
To be 100% accurate, Obama would need to call for them to be released if someone had stolen them. That he would be interested in seeing them if they were stolen.
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On July 28 2016 02:29 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:27 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 02:24 farvacola wrote:
Zeo's posting frequency goes way up when people start talking about Russia, it's really quite funny. Don't blow your cover, dude! Its cute how you follow me around, do you have a little wall in your bedroom with my posts? No, but I'm sure I could get Mexico to build one for me. Narcissism is rarely self-aware, by the way
You don't have to be self-aware to blindly follow the logic of narcissism.Trump doesn't have to be self-aware to effectively hijack social networks and redirect attention to himself.
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On July 28 2016 02:28 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:18 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:15 LegalLord wrote:On July 28 2016 02:10 Doodsmack wrote:On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
It's not the Russians' fault that the emails contain what they do. Spinning this as if it were is in fact blaming the Russians.
You're conflating blaming the Russians for the hack and blaming them for the content of the emails. On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
My opinion of Obama is that he is not an FP president and he chose a pretty terrible advisor in Hillary Clinton. That is what it would be regardless of the Ukraine situation. Beside the point of whether you'd criticize him for being weak on Crimea. Blaming the Russians for the hack is an attempt to sidestep the issue of the contents of the hack. Foreign governments hacking your servers is neither unusual nor suspicious because everyone does it to everyone. Leaking the contents, a bit less so, but also not something all that out of the ordinary. Still no conclusive proof that it is Russia either. I gave you my thoughts on Obama's FP. That is hardly beside the point. I don't really think in terms of "weak or strong" but more in "foolish or well-planned" action. Stating a general opinion on Obama's FP is beside the point of a specific question on a specific issue. Both the contents of the hack and the hack itself can be big issues. You are clearly downplaying the latter. My general opinion is my specific opinion. The latter is an issue of the DNC and how fucking bad it is at protecting its own servers. I have mentioned this in the past and the hackee matters more than the hacker.
LegalLord: Obama is not a FP president. I assess actions in terms of foolish or not foolish.
LegalLord: The above clarifies whether I think Obama's reaction to Crimea was foolish or not foolish.
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On July 28 2016 02:34 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:32 silynxer wrote:On July 28 2016 02:28 LegalLord wrote:
Blaming the Russians for the hack is an attempt to sidestep the issue of the contents of the hack. Foreign governments hacking your servers is neither unusual nor suspicious because everyone does it to everyone. Leaking the contents, a bit less so, but also not something all that out of the ordinary. Still no conclusive proof that it is Russia either. On July 28 2016 02:04 LegalLord wrote:
As mentioned before, leaks are pretty rare. Mmh. If you want to say that leaking documents is unusual, then yes that much is true. It's been done by Russia in recent years, but it's not standard practice for most situations. Though it isn't unprecedented either.
I was asking about those precedents.
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On July 28 2016 02:30 zeo wrote:Ahhh when you guys resort to slander I know you have nothing to back up your claims and are getting nervous
I gave you a really dope code name and everything. I don't see the problem, that looks like a nice building.
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On July 28 2016 02:34 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:29 farvacola wrote:On July 28 2016 02:27 zeo wrote:On July 28 2016 02:24 farvacola wrote:
Zeo's posting frequency goes way up when people start talking about Russia, it's really quite funny. Don't blow your cover, dude! Its cute how you follow me around, do you have a little wall in your bedroom with my posts? No, but I'm sure I could get Mexico to build one for me. Narcissism is rarely self-aware, by the way You don't have to be self-aware to blindly follow the logic of narcissism.Trump doesn't have to be self-aware to effectively hijack social networks and redirect attention to himself.
Sure, but how that relates to intimations of Trump's suavity is more where I was going. Trump isn't cunning, he's just the right kind of guy at the right place at the right time.
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On July 28 2016 02:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2016 02:30 zeo wrote:Ahhh when you guys resort to slander I know you have nothing to back up your claims and are getting nervous I gave you a really dope code name and everything. I don't see the problem, that looks like a nice building.
doubling down on your slander, atleast you learned something from trump
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EPT
