EPTAnd the fact remains, a GOP primary is wildly different from a general election. For one, quoting the bible is not how you win a general election. This is one of the reason I see Trump as the GOP's last hope to be relevant. Bernie knows how to lay into people and he knows how to make things stick. I think that not only would Bernie be able to actually damage Trump (in the eyes of the general electorate), but he also sets the stage for Clinton's attacks. Clinton is able to just piggy back on everything Bernie says in a debate. By Clinton continuing Bernie's attack, she kinda slides herself into his persona/image to certain people.
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
And the fact remains, a GOP primary is wildly different from a general election. For one, quoting the bible is not how you win a general election. This is one of the reason I see Trump as the GOP's last hope to be relevant. Bernie knows how to lay into people and he knows how to make things stick. I think that not only would Bernie be able to actually damage Trump (in the eyes of the general electorate), but he also sets the stage for Clinton's attacks. Clinton is able to just piggy back on everything Bernie says in a debate. By Clinton continuing Bernie's attack, she kinda slides herself into his persona/image to certain people. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
Anyway, Trump is definitely large and in charge during this election cycle. He has turned traditional political strategy on its head and is reaping the benefits. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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oBlade
United States6317 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On May 26 2016 22:44 farvacola wrote: Remember that debates are less about the people who are already a fan of a particular candidate and more about those who are undecided. In that sense, Bernie does have the ability to do some good work come debate time. I mean, the main people Clinton needs to win over are liberals that don't call themselves democrats (i.e. Sanders supporters). If she does that she can pick up another ~2-3% on Trump. I don't see how this debate will/would do much to push them into her arms-unless Sanders really digs into Trump as everything wrong with America like he used to pay lip service to at debates. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46220 Posts
On May 27 2016 01:02 SK.Testie wrote: Apparently some sources are saying Trump has already backed out of the debate so it may not happen. If true I guess he's angered some Bernie fans or disenfranchised them some more. While Trump obviously wants to minimize the amount of time that he's forced to talk about politics that he's unfamiliar with, I feel like Trump is missing a really easy opportunity to gain traction with anti-establishment pro-Bernie voters against Hillary. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24141 Posts
On May 27 2016 00:50 xDaunt wrote: I don't see how this debate is anything other than bad news for Hillary. This whole episode concerning the genesis of the debate reinforces the narrative that she's weak, reinforces Trump's message of strength, and gives Bernie an opportunity to play up his message of being the one democrat who can take on Trump. The only thing that's worse for Hillary is that, at the actual debate, she is going to be drawing ample fire from both Trump and Bernie without a platform to respond. The only way that this backfires on Trump is if Bernie trounces him at the debate, which is incredibly unlikely. Even assuming that Bernie scores more points on the issues, Trump's performance at the debates has never been about command of the issues. It has always been about presence. I highly doubt that Bernie will do any better at undercutting Trump's presence than any of the republican candidates did. Anyway, Trump is definitely large and in charge during this election cycle. He has turned traditional political strategy on its head and is reaping the benefits. Of course it's bad news for Hillary, watching her supporters try to spin this against Bernie is pretty hilarious and looks desperate. Only Hillary supporters think this debate is a bad idea. Of course this is all Hillary's doing anyway, by being too cowardly to keep her word and debate Bernie herself. As for the emails thing, it's one of those "the cover up is worse than the crime" She lied a LOT about it. Maybe not a big deal, but when most of America already doesn't trust you... | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
Granted, I've even done this myself, but my lord, the furor surrounding this what will likely end up a relatively inconsequential debate is just too much  | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28866 Posts
On May 26 2016 21:30 SolaR- wrote: I think Sanders sees Hillary as a bigger threat than Trump even though he might not say publicly. She represents everything that he despises and is against. Hillary is Wall Street. I am sorry, but this thought is not grounded in reality. There is absolutely no way Sanders considers Hillary a bigger threat than Trump. Him and her largely share political vision (not entirely mind you), but differ greatly in way of achieving their goals. Sanders and Trump though? They might coincidentally (coincidentally because they base their decisions on entirely different premises but might still end up with agreeing occasionally) share some common ground in terms of anti-trade and campaign finance regulation, but their political/societal visions are entirely different. Sanders essentially wants to Scandinavify the US (basically adopting our policies in the areas where we outperform the US). As a Scandinavian, I can tell you that there's not a single thing Trump has suggested so far that would accomplish that goal - or even move towards that goal. The entire 'make america great again' message is anti-sanders by nature. Sanders is a global citizen first, American second - even more so than Obama is. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28866 Posts
On May 27 2016 02:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: While Trump obviously wants to minimize the amount of time that he's forced to talk about politics that he's unfamiliar with, I feel like Trump is missing a really easy opportunity to gain traction with anti-establishment pro-Bernie voters against Hillary. I honestly think that agreeing to this debate would be a massive mistake from Trump if it is done with the hope of winning over sanders voters. There are other reasons why it would not be stupid by him (showcasing how different he is from Hillary, showcasing Hillary's flaws in a way that makes sanders voters less likely to vote for her), but there is no way a Sanders vs Trump debate would leave people thinking the two candidates share significant common ground. Sanders is way, way, way more opposed to a Trump presidency than a Clinton presidency, that really isn't up for debate, and in a debate, I am confident he would repeatedly insist on being allowed to make that piece of information clear to everyone. | ||
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
On May 27 2016 03:04 Liquid`Drone wrote: I am sorry, but this thought is not grounded in reality. There is absolutely no way Sanders considers Hillary a bigger threat than Trump. Him and her largely share political vision (not entirely mind you), but differ greatly in way of achieving their goals. Sanders and Trump though? They might coincidentally (coincidentally because they base their decisions on entirely different premises but might still end up with agreeing occasionally) share some common ground in terms of anti-trade and campaign finance regulation, but their political/societal visions are entirely different. Sanders essentially wants to Scandinavify the US (basically adopting our policies in the areas where we outperform the US). As a Scandinavian, I can tell you that there's not a single thing Trump has suggested so far that would accomplish that goal - or even move towards that goal. The entire 'make america great again' message is anti-sanders by nature. Sanders is a global citizen first, American second - even more so than Obama is. I didn't say trump and sanders had no differences which they obviously do. However, a big part of what bernie is campaigning against is political corruption and the corruption of wall street and the big banks. Hillary represents all those things. And i admit, my comment was bit of a stretch and more like wishful thinking. But i do not think it is outside the realm of possibility. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28866 Posts
Meanwhile, Trump is at best pretending that he's not really a believer. And he most certainly does not want to curtail consumption. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
IF they attack each other, Bernie supporters are more likely to shift their vote to Hilary in the General. IF they attack Hilary, Hilary points to Bernie as being no different than Trump and galvanizes actual liberals to her side. IF they do neither, then they look silly setting up a big event where they don't actually have a debate. In none of those does Hilary look bad. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24141 Posts
Trump knows his optics. Hillary will not only be avoiding a debate she promised to be at, but she'll be ducking raising money for women's health issues. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On May 27 2016 02:49 farvacola wrote: Opinions regarding this Sanders-Trump debate seem to be suffering from endemic question begging; asserting the impact of anything in this black swan of an election season in unequivocal language has proven to be the stuff of the very political pundits that we've all decided are terrible, and yet, every time some new development comes along, we'll have posters saying things like, "Oh, this will certainly lead to [insert particular outcome]" without a single bit of substance to back it up. Granted, I've even done this myself, but my lord, the furor surrounding this what will likely end up a relatively inconsequential debate is just too much Yeah you are right. It's pretty tiresome to see the usual thread suspects make definite pronouncements every which way every news cycle. Anything could happen folks. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
http://go.cnn.com/?stream=cnn | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
On May 27 2016 01:02 SK.Testie wrote: Apparently some sources are saying Trump has already backed out of the debate so it may not happen. If true I guess he's angered some Bernie fans or disenfranchised them some more. Ha ha,if this is true then maybe the trump team started to see the risks as well. He loses a little by backing out now but its not much,going against sanders at this point is just not worth the risk. Let sanders do the dirty work of undermining Clinton for a little bit longer,then step in to finish it. | ||
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