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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12602 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:15 Nebuchad wrote: Can we get an acknowledgement that "I think he was justified to incite violence" is different from the "he didn't incite violence" that you were pushing earlier? Do you think that would be fair? | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:32 oBlade wrote: It's not merely an ideological gap but the fact that he is responsible for the deaths of human beings. The context this came up in is that for some reason it's fashionable to hold Trump at "fault" because one white supremacist or another that before this election nobody (rightly) was paying any attention to or knew their names, complimented Trump. But there's no such scandal in the mass media. And Clinton actually likes Kissinger. There is apparently no reciprocal admiration between Trump and a white supremacist. This is the left, for fuck's sake. Kissinger, as in Vietnam, which is either the most unpopular war in US history or tied for it. It would be like a Democratic candidate in 30 years chatting with G.W. Bush and the mass media being filled with gossip about how some racist radio host in bumfuckville said he was voting for Robert Paul. The point is that there is an inconsistency or even hypocrisy going on. I think the difference here is that the white supremacists were preaching a hateful ideology and don't bring anything valuable to the table. Kissinger is Machiavellian and the embodiment of realpolitik. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
Bernie falling further behind Things I'm not looking forward to today: "Bernie Sanders manages AMAZING upset by only falling 10 points further behind! Can you say WHITE HOUSE? Say goodbye to the 1% and click here to see HOW Sanders is CHANGING modern day politics and destroying OLIGARCHY" | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On March 16 2016 03:30 IgnE wrote: Down with IP. Down with Monsanto. Always funny that its the people without the IP rights that complain the most about others having IP rights. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28916 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:44 SK.Testie wrote: It's actually illegal to protest in the vicinity of the secret service. I'm amazed people haven't died. Obama installed this law because I imagine it makes their job a lot harder. They are all completely bought and owned by corporate masters and they are all part of the "establishment". The people are so against the establishment (especially the Republican side) for their notorious lying history. All the people you mentioned are completely bought and owned. Out of those Kasich might be more honest, but he grants amnesty to illegals. That ends this election. People simply do not want that. Hell, your own countries are getting more right wing because of the Migrant crisis. That's only 1.6 million Muslims so far compared to the 11-30 million Illegals. And your own media is being exposed as constant liars trying to suppress information which is REALLY disconcerting. That same thing has been happening in America for a long, long time. And people are saying, "We're really fucking tired of this". People dislike having foreign gangs in their lands. Once again, you're just supporting my notion that it's not that Trump is trustworthy or honest. You just agree with him on a major piece of policy. To me, my impression is that your support of Trump is based on two things; he's the one most adamant about securing the border, and he is the one most hostile towards Muslims, and following this, you've decided to mentally leap towards 'he must be trustworthy and honest' even though he keeps lying and lying and lying and lying and lying. If you agree with him that border must be secured and that the 11 million illegals (where do you have 30 million from? Did he or a supporter of his just throw out an 11-30 million number because 'well if it's 11 million then saying it's between 11 and 30 million is still technically correct' and you just bought it? ) must be deported and that there's a fundamental, unsolvable conflict between 'Islam' and the west, that's fair enough, but don't go around claiming that Trump is honest or trustworthy. He is a sociopathic liar. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28916 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:47 ticklishmusic wrote: I think the difference here is that the white supremacists were preaching a hateful ideology and don't bring anything valuable to the table. Kissinger is Machiavellian and the embodiment of realpolitik. To me, a disenfranchised white supremacist is much less dangerous than a Machiavellian American secretary of state. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:56 xDaunt wrote: I just find it endlessly amusing that many of the people who are taking Trump to task are the same people who were more than willing to turn a blind eye to BLM or any of the race riots that we have seen recently. "Don't you know? When no one is taking notice, your only option is to MAKE people notice, however it is you need to get that done. It is worth it for the sake of ending oppression! People thought racism was dead in the 60s!! That means it is not dead today AT ALL and is WORSE so we need to make people LATE TO WORK!!" | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24448 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:51 Mohdoo wrote: Things I'm looking forward to today: Bernie falling further behind Things I'm not looking forward to today: "Bernie Sanders manages AMAZING upset by only falling 10 points further behind! Can you say WHITE HOUSE? Say goodbye to the 1% and click here to see HOW Sanders is CHANGING modern day politics and destroying OLIGARCHY" What do you think is going to happen state by state? I sense an upset or two in the making. Also gaining 20+ points in several states even if he doesn't win is a pretty big deal. Put another way, losing 20% in a couple weeks isn't a positive sign for a potential nominee. | ||
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farvacola
United States18870 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:58 GreenHorizons wrote: What do you think is going to happen state by state? I sense an upset or two in the making. Also gaining 20+ points in several states even if he doesn't win is a pretty big deal. Put another way, losing 20% in a couple weeks isn't a positive sign for a potential nominee. I think Bernie will win all the states that he is slightly to somewhat behind in. I think Clinton will handily win Florida and that she will continue to have the dominance she needs, while still not having much more. I think this elections is just straight up different. People won't coalesce around a candidate until another drops out. I expect Clinton to get the nomination with 105% of the needed delegates. Edit: As I have said before, this is our country's first 4 party election. However, it is being run as a 4 person tournament. Winner of the "left" election faces the winner of the "right" election, but they are actual full on elections. Not just feeling out who seems good and then calling it. Edit #2: Not that it means much, but my mom has been a Bernie nut up until a couple days ago. She said Bernie officially went too insane and isn't actually making sense. She appreciates his message, but finally said he's just too far out there. My conversations with her went similar to my conversations with GH until now. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:59 farvacola wrote: "Turning a blind eye"=\=regarding BLM/"race riots" differently than you I probably should have said "justified" instead of "turned a blind eye." | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 16 2016 04:53 Naracs_Duc wrote: Always funny that its the people without the IP rights that complain the most about others having IP rights. Well, it's also cuz people with IP rights, especially that in the food industry are amazing at screwing over farmers. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
That's somewhat fair, but it's reactionary and not deliberately aggressive. Because the media paints him as, "This incendiary violent rhetoric. This constant violence coming out of Trump rallies". All rallies where protesters show up and don't start acting like savages, are extremely peaceful. Despite every colour and creed being there. Something tells me if 3,000 Trump supporters were calling Trumps name at a Bernie rally, and constantly interrupting him at every single turn you'd see something similar. For instance, you say Trumps positions are inflaming their feelings and they have a right to go protest. Sure. Outside the building a safe distance away. It is literally illegal for them to protest within the vicinity of the secret service remember. Now: One could argue that Bernie being a socialist whom has defended communism on video is inflammatory in itself. People have seen how most socialist states work out, devolves into communism, lots of people die or starve, then communists say, "communism has never been tried correctly!". People could protest the very thought of this very strongly because there's a long history of socialism destroying communities. Sweden was a socialist paradise that Bernie pointed to, now because it didn't defend it's borders and give incentives for their own populace to repopulate but instead invited a foreign hostile population, you have a large, uneducated group of people whom are in the country not knowing the language living off government assistance. On March 16 2016 04:54 Liquid`Drone wrote: Once again, you're just supporting my notion that it's not that Trump is trustworthy or honest. You just agree with him on a major piece of policy. To me, my impression is that your support of Trump is based on two things; he's the one most adamant about securing the border, and he is the one most hostile towards Muslims, and following this, you've decided to mentally leap towards 'he must be trustworthy and honest' even though he keeps lying and lying and lying and lying and lying. If you agree with him that border must be secured and that the 11 million illegals (where do you have 30 million from? Did he or a supporter of his just throw out an 11-30 million number because 'well if it's 11 million then saying it's between 11 and 30 million is still technically correct' and you just bought it? ) must be deported and that there's a fundamental, unsolvable conflict between 'Islam' and the west, that's fair enough, but don't go around claiming that Trump is honest or trustworthy. He is a sociopathic liar. The possible 30 million figure comes from Ann Coulter in her book Adios America. She cites the problems with the 11 mill figure. Remember it's 11mill TO 30 million. That could mean there's 12 million instead of 11. But it seems more likely that it's much higher. A quick tl;dr on the book, but the book is much more in depth and is very well cited. Ann may be a known bigot, but she's an informed bigot with a doctorate. Yes, but the thing is most people view the others as even more dishonest because they would not even address those issues if not for Trump. Then (the next runner up Ted Cruz) they tried to copy Trump. He's immediately seen as the leader. Also, he completely played the media and was constantly 2 steps ahead of them on every attack. He talks like a stupid man so that the average voter understands him, but he has proven he is far from stupid. To get a better understanding of Trumps base, you have to read what they are saying. They're surprisingly intelligent and not just well informed, but many are hyper informed reactionaries. I do not see a sociopathic liar in Trump. I see that in Cruz because he actively looks like he's enjoying every lie he's telling. LYIN' TED. I think Trump's most definitely lying for political gain, but they all are proven liars by now. All of them. It's just what issues are most important to Americans right now. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22675 Posts
On March 16 2016 05:22 Doodsmack wrote: The upside to Trump explicitly justifying violence (and let's not pretend he's saying "only use violence if they swing first") is that the other candidates walked back their unconditional support of the Republican nominee. I really want to see three candidates in the general. I would laugh like never before if the GOP runs someone 3e party just to torpedo Trump. God that would be so funny. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On March 16 2016 05:11 SK.Testie wrote: I think Trump's most definitely lying for political gain, but they all are proven liars...It's just what issues are most important to Americans right now. It seems your argument has a tendency to change in response to the counter points from others. Before you said the others were decidedly sleazier than Trump. It appears to me you have such a preconceived opinion against the establishment and media that Trump is an outlet for people like you to just be defiant. In the process, as an informed political activist you make incredible sacrifices in the quality of your candidate (assuming you support Trump) in order to fight against the establishment and media. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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ErectedZenith
325 Posts
On March 16 2016 05:23 Gorsameth wrote: I would laugh like never before if the GOP runs someone 3e party just to torpedo Trump. God that would be so funny. They can't. Trump have leaked all of their resources without spending much himself. Its the nature of the beast. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On March 16 2016 05:23 Gorsameth wrote: I would laugh like never before if the GOP runs someone 3e party just to torpedo Trump. God that would be so funny. I would liken it to the events depicted in the movie Valkyrie LOL. | ||
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