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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 08 2016 17:07 GMT
#64501
For weeks, the labels have hung over Ted Cruz’s presidential campaign like dirty laundry: Deceitful. Cynical. Willing to do anything to win.

The attacks from Mr. Cruz’s Republican rivals have challenged his core campaign promises of integrity and conservative purity, cresting on Monday when he dismissed his communications director, Rick Tyler, for spreading a misleading video about Marco Rubio’s views on the Bible.

“There is a culture in the Cruz campaign, from top to bottom,” a Rubio spokesman, Alex Conant, said, “that no lie is too big and no trick too dirty.”

The episode threatened to tarnish Mr. Cruz’s brand. But not his campaign manager’s.

As Mr. Cruz has elbowed into the top tier of candidates, his campaign has reflected the brand of its principal architect: Jeff Roe, an operative with a reputation for scorching earth, stretching truths and winning elections.

“When you win campaigns,” Mr. Cruz said last month of the man he hired, “the people that lose tend to be unhappy about it.”


Cruz's campaign manager is a pretty disgusting human being too.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-08 17:18:32
March 08 2016 17:09 GMT
#64502
On March 09 2016 00:46 Falling wrote:
I honestly wouldn't take away from Trump's acumen. It is simply is not the case that an inheritor of great wealth will necessarily be able to turn around and maintain the wealth, never mind turn it into something greater. I don't know how true it is, but I've seen several articles claim that the majority of wealthy families (new money) lose it by the second, but certainly by the third generation. The articles then speculate one what those other families were doing right. But new money can very often have the first generation that are hard working and with good business sense, but the next two generations waste it all away, maybe on high/ wasteful living or else simply bad business enterprises. But Trump expanding what he was given... that should never be a line of attack on him, in my opinion. Sure he had a big step up that I will never have. But he DID something with it. And that's the point.

Just fyi, in those studies the biggest cause is that family member growth usually only accelerates, therefore the estate keeps being reduced at an accelerating rate.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-08 17:21:40
March 08 2016 17:20 GMT
#64503
First gen earns-- works hard, gets wealthy

Second gen learns-- grew up not that great, had parents teach them the value of money and how to be a good steward

Third gen burns-- born into money, only knows how to spend it but don't really know how to make it

To be fair, Trump's kids turned out pretty decently. Ivanka seems like a smart lady, though his son seems to be a bit of a blowhard.

On the other hand, Mark Zuckerberg basically disinherited his daughter the day she was born by pledging almost all his wealth to charity. Thanks dad!
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2016 17:27 GMT
#64504
He pledged all his wealth to a charity he runs. I’m pretty sure she will be fine. Like the Gate’s kids, she will be very well educated and surrounded networking opportunities.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43596 Posts
March 08 2016 17:29 GMT
#64505
Zuckerberg's daughter is going to be fine. If someone has a billion dollars and only gives you a million you're still way richer than someone who is left every penny of a 100k inheritance.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 08 2016 17:31 GMT
#64506
I don't really think insurance matters that much any more anyway because nowadays most people inherit when they're in their forties or fifties.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 08 2016 17:33 GMT
#64507
The FBI has quietly revised its privacy rules for searching data involving Americans’ international communications that was collected by the National Security Agency, US officials have confirmed to the Guardian.

The classified revisions were accepted by the secret US court that governs surveillance, during its annual recertification of the agencies’ broad surveillance powers. The new rules affect a set of powers colloquially known as Section 702, the portion of the law that authorizes the NSA’s sweeping “Prism” program to collect internet data. Section 702 falls under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa), and is a provision set to expire later this year.

A government civil liberties watchdog, the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Group (PCLOB), alluded to the change in its recent overview of ongoing surveillance practices.

The watchdog confirmed in a 2014 report that the FBI is allowed direct access to the NSA’s massive collections of international emails, texts and phone calls – which often include Americans on one end of the conversation. The activists also expressed concern that the FBI’s “minimization” rules, for removing or limiting sensitive data that could identify Americans, did not reflect the bureau’s easy access to the NSA’s collected international communications.

FBI officials can search through the data, using Americans’ identifying information, for what PCLOB called “routine” queries unrelated to national security. The oversight group recommended more safeguards around “the FBI’s use and dissemination of Section 702 data in connection with non-foreign intelligence criminal matters”.

As of 2014, the FBI was not even required to make note of when it searched the metadata, which includes the “to” or “from” lines of an email. Nor does it record how many of its data searches involve Americans’ identifying details – a practice that apparently continued through 2015, based on documents released last February. The PCLOB called such searches “substantial”, since the FBI keeps NSA-collected data with the information it acquires through more traditional means, such as individualized warrants.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 08 2016 17:33 GMT
#64508
man no one here ever gets a joke
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
March 08 2016 17:37 GMT
#64509
On March 09 2016 02:29 KwarK wrote:
Zuckerberg's daughter is going to be fine. If someone has a billion dollars and only gives you a million you're still way richer than someone who is left every penny of a 100k inheritance.


Or you could be like my dad who never paid any child support but when he died and his 2.3 mil estate was up he wrote in some notes a bunch of people and lied saying he had no child~ (even though he claimed me for his social security disability during the period he wasn't working then started to work without telling anyone and got hit hard for fraud which my btw my mother had to pay back the social security even though she wasn't at fault at all, thank god they knew this so let her have super low payments).

He would be in the "born into money" category though (obv not at the level of Trump).
Never Knows Best.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2016 17:39 GMT
#64510
I understand that that the FBI has a job to do and the internet is a massive thing, but record keeping of what they are doing is necessary. This shouldn’t be any different than a wire tap, where they are required to note when they are listening. Those dives into the meta data should be recorded to prevent abuse.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23656 Posts
March 08 2016 17:57 GMT
#64511
It takes ~$10m inheritance and a pulse to make more than most American's make working hard.

Staying rich is about as impressive as not forgetting to breathe.

The most viable line of attack around his business practices is that he's a fraud, but one must remember the Greenspan minded folks don't exactly believe what he did was really fraud.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43596 Posts
March 08 2016 17:59 GMT
#64512
Median income is 30k. If we assume that living expenses are at least 20k then a married couple working for an entire lifespan together could maybe get up to a mil (inflation adjusted) with compounding returns.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 08 2016 18:08 GMT
#64513
On March 09 2016 02:57 GreenHorizons wrote:
It takes ~$10m inheritance and a pulse to make more than most American's make working hard.

Staying rich is about as impressive as not forgetting to breathe.

The most viable line of attack around his business practices is that he's a fraud, but one must remember the Greenspan minded folks don't exactly believe what he did was really fraud.

You'd be surprised how fast money leaves.
liftlift > tsm
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 08 2016 18:12 GMT
#64514
The stories about rich guys going broke left and right is mainly soccer stars who are twenty two and insane when it comes to money or businesses which is only natural, they lose a lot of money from time to time. If we're talking about private property in real estate or blue chips it's really quite impossible to end up poor.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 08 2016 18:13 GMT
#64515
Ted Cruz is threatening to make one of the biggest gambles of the 2016 season: diving into Florida to knock off Marco Rubio.

Cruz has little chance of winning the March 15 Florida primary, but he’s showing signs he might compete by opening field offices and sending surrogates to stump in the state while his super PAC prepares to strafe Marco Rubio with a seven-figure ad buy.

The aim: pull enough voters away from Rubio to ensure Donald Trump wins the state’s 99 delegates and deny the Florida senator any pick-up opportunity elsewhere by forcing him to defend his turf. Doing that gives Trump a bigger lead in delegates, but it means Cruz has calculated he can catch up.

“Cruz thinks he can do well against Trump in a head-to-head race. And he needs to kill Rubio to do it,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute, whose survey released showed Trump leading Rubio 38 percent to 30 among Florida Republicans.

Whether it’s an elaborate headfake or expert play to kill off a rival 2016 contender, the Texan aims to force Rubio to spend more time and money defending his home turf, freeing up Cruz to more easily compete for delegates in eight states and U.S. territories that hold contests between Tuesday and Saturday.

But the strategy is risky. Cruz doesn’t want Trump to get too strong, and he needs to pad his delegate count on March 15 too. Attention paid to Florida cuts into resources available in places where Cruz could have more clear-cut opportunities to win delegates, including in conservative North Carolina, which awards delegates proportionally, and Missouri, which employs a hybrid method.

And at this point, every delegate counts.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23656 Posts
March 08 2016 18:13 GMT
#64516
On March 09 2016 02:59 KwarK wrote:
Median income is 30k. If we assume that living expenses are at least 20k then a married couple working for an entire lifespan together could maybe get up to a mil (inflation adjusted) with compounding returns.


Oh yeah, of course. I just mean to point out that they will make more and still have ~$10m+ to pass on.

Anyone who goes from being wealthy to not being wealthy has no one to blame but themselves. A stark contrast to the reality of millions of people,who no matter how hard they work, there are simply not enough opportunities/resources for all of them to be wealthy.

I think it's pretty silly how hard some people work to defend people's ability to be wealthy for doing nothing, and how little effort, by comparison, they put into making sure anyone who works hard can get ahead.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-08 19:01:00
March 08 2016 18:20 GMT
#64517
trump got more than a mil to start btw. he only managed to secure his ~100m line of credit to build the hyatt with his dad's backing.

edit: looking into it a bit more, he is kind of a casino promoter/brander. and you know what they say about the casino business.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-08 19:05:49
March 08 2016 19:01 GMT
#64518
On March 09 2016 03:12 Nyxisto wrote:
The stories about rich guys going broke left and right is mainly soccer stars who are twenty two and insane when it comes to money or businesses which is only natural, they lose a lot of money from time to time. If we're talking about private property in real estate or blue chips it's really quite impossible to end up poor.

Obviously hard to end up poor, but very easy to lose value. Had a family member who had died, his net worth was around 30~mil, in a period of 5 years his family managed to mismanage his propeties down to <10 mil.

On March 09 2016 03:13 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2016 02:59 KwarK wrote:
Median income is 30k. If we assume that living expenses are at least 20k then a married couple working for an entire lifespan together could maybe get up to a mil (inflation adjusted) with compounding returns.


Oh yeah, of course. I just mean to point out that they will make more and still have ~$10m+ to pass on.

Anyone who goes from being wealthy to not being wealthy has no one to blame but themselves. A stark contrast to the reality of millions of people,who no matter how hard they work, there are simply not enough opportunities/resources for all of them to be wealthy.

I think it's pretty silly how hard some people work to defend people's ability to be wealthy for doing nothing, and how little effort, by comparison, they put into making sure anyone who works hard can get ahead.


Yeah, god forbid people make enough money so that their next generation can live comfortably.
liftlift > tsm
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
March 08 2016 19:07 GMT
#64519
for a very low information rich person it's pretty easy to get swindled when all your friends know you have money and are also dumb. still don't see the ability to avoid this situation as some sort of great ability, especially in this day and age of sophisticated wealth management once one venture outside of the tribal clan level of social contact.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-08 19:20:02
March 08 2016 19:18 GMT
#64520
On March 09 2016 03:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Ted Cruz is threatening to make one of the biggest gambles of the 2016 season: diving into Florida to knock off Marco Rubio.

Cruz has little chance of winning the March 15 Florida primary, but he’s showing signs he might compete by opening field offices and sending surrogates to stump in the state while his super PAC prepares to strafe Marco Rubio with a seven-figure ad buy.

The aim: pull enough voters away from Rubio to ensure Donald Trump wins the state’s 99 delegates and deny the Florida senator any pick-up opportunity elsewhere by forcing him to defend his turf. Doing that gives Trump a bigger lead in delegates, but it means Cruz has calculated he can catch up.

“Cruz thinks he can do well against Trump in a head-to-head race. And he needs to kill Rubio to do it,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute, whose survey released showed Trump leading Rubio 38 percent to 30 among Florida Republicans.

Whether it’s an elaborate headfake or expert play to kill off a rival 2016 contender, the Texan aims to force Rubio to spend more time and money defending his home turf, freeing up Cruz to more easily compete for delegates in eight states and U.S. territories that hold contests between Tuesday and Saturday.

But the strategy is risky. Cruz doesn’t want Trump to get too strong, and he needs to pad his delegate count on March 15 too. Attention paid to Florida cuts into resources available in places where Cruz could have more clear-cut opportunities to win delegates, including in conservative North Carolina, which awards delegates proportionally, and Missouri, which employs a hybrid method.

And at this point, every delegate counts.


Source


This seems like an unimaginably stupid move from Cruz. Trump pulling his 51% while continuing to grab ~35-37% of the vote hinges pretty hard on winning Florida, and the probability of Cruz managing to grab 60+% of the remaining states' delegates he would need to get to 51% seems virtually nil.
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