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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3170

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 04 2016 15:49 GMT
#63381
So Milo Yiannopoulos's name came up yesterday. What's with all of the hubbub over what he said at Pitt? I understand what his shtick is, but I haven't seen what he specifically said that got everyone in an uproar.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 04 2016 15:54 GMT
#63382
Warning, for those who do not know, "Milo Yiannopoulos" is a danger search in google that will lead you to some dark places on the internet. Proceed with caution if you are not on your personal PC.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-04 16:03:38
March 04 2016 15:54 GMT
#63383
trump's loosening of his immigration stance may hurt him
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
March 04 2016 16:13 GMT
#63384
So is a brokered convention really a better option for the Republicans than nominating Trump? Seems like that would also be a disaster.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 04 2016 16:18 GMT
#63385
On March 05 2016 01:13 LegalLord wrote:
So is a brokered convention really a better option for the Republicans than nominating Trump? Seems like that would also be a disaster.

It's not, and it won't happen. Ted Cruz said it correctly last night: a brokered convention resulting in someone other than the candidate with the most votes/delegates becoming the nominee will destroy the party. Presuming that we hold steady at Trump 1 and Cruz 2, Cruz will throw his supporters behind Trump rather than let the establishment interfere and bring in some clown like Romney.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
March 04 2016 16:18 GMT
#63386
Depends. They might try to ride out the Trump storm and hope it doesn't happen again 4 year later, or a brokered convention would blow things up enough that some change can be made.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 04 2016 17:04 GMT
#63387
On March 05 2016 00:54 oneofthem wrote:
trump's loosening of his immigration stance may hurt him

How emotionally devastated are you that your boy Webb prefers Trump to Hillary?
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2686 Posts
March 04 2016 17:04 GMT
#63388
On March 05 2016 00:20 Doodsmack wrote:
Please God, let Trump lose in November.

And lol @ xDaunt's claim that some people don't have a "working" understanding of the Trump phenomenon. Because it's so complicated.


Oh it's you again. The guy who provides no substance but pretends hes intelligent with his hyperbolic behavior.

Get him out of here. Get out. Out out out.

User was warned for this post
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
March 04 2016 17:06 GMT
#63389
On March 05 2016 02:04 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2016 00:54 oneofthem wrote:
trump's loosening of his immigration stance may hurt him

How emotionally devastated are you that your boy Webb prefers Trump to Hillary?

not so much. i just want a stronger navy
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
strongwind
Profile Joined July 2007
United States862 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-04 17:14:39
March 04 2016 17:10 GMT
#63390
On March 04 2016 17:33 JW_DTLA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2016 16:49 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:40 acker wrote:
I don't think that the Democrats would vote for the physical embodiment of privilege. Republicans definitely wouldn't vote for the reincarnation of Karl Marx.

As for the debate...well, given that the Republican Party is busy burning itself to the ground right now, I don't think the DNC has any pressing worries at this time.

If you don't think the Democrats are just as fractured, you'd be wrong. People are tired of being caricatured along party lines, and apparently are willing to blow up the system to prove it. Donald is that bomb.


The fractured Democrats approve of the sitting Democratic president by an average of 86.7 versus 9.9 for a +76.8 spread. Show me the fracturing. Show it in numbers.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-barack-obama-213540

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/12/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/

No one said anything about Democrats disliking Obama. If you hadn't noticed, this election cycle is different than Obama's. Democrats have been presented a real choice with Sanders and Clinton, one that shows a more polarizing picture of where this party should go. There is a growing amount of discontent with the status quo even among Democrats. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think Clinton and Obama are the same person, you are sorely mistaken.

And the Democrats are different than the Republicans, in that if they don't feel passionate about their candidate, they simply stay home on election day. It's the curse of the young people if you will. It's not that they disavow the party. But if they don't turn out to vote, it might as well be the same thing. Obama was the exception rather than the norm as far as the Dems are concerned.
Taek Bang Fighting!
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
March 04 2016 17:23 GMT
#63391
On March 05 2016 02:04 SolaR- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2016 00:20 Doodsmack wrote:
Please God, let Trump lose in November.

And lol @ xDaunt's claim that some people don't have a "working" understanding of the Trump phenomenon. Because it's so complicated.


Oh it's you again. The guy who provides no substance but pretends hes intelligent with his hyperbolic behavior.

Get him out of here. Get out. Out out out.


Sorry I'm still building up my working understanding of Trump's strategy. It's necessary for me to arrive at an oh-so-measured rationalization of Donald Trump as commander in chief.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-04 17:46:25
March 04 2016 17:23 GMT
#63392
On March 05 2016 02:10 strongwind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2016 17:33 JW_DTLA wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:49 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:40 acker wrote:
I don't think that the Democrats would vote for the physical embodiment of privilege. Republicans definitely wouldn't vote for the reincarnation of Karl Marx.

As for the debate...well, given that the Republican Party is busy burning itself to the ground right now, I don't think the DNC has any pressing worries at this time.

If you don't think the Democrats are just as fractured, you'd be wrong. People are tired of being caricatured along party lines, and apparently are willing to blow up the system to prove it. Donald is that bomb.


The fractured Democrats approve of the sitting Democratic president by an average of 86.7 versus 9.9 for a +76.8 spread. Show me the fracturing. Show it in numbers.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-barack-obama-213540

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/12/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/

No one said anything about Democrats disliking Obama. If you hadn't noticed, this election cycle is different than Obama's. Democrats have been presented a real choice with Sanders and Clinton, one that shows a more polarizing picture of where this party should go. There is a growing amount of discontent with the status quo even among Democrats. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think Clinton and Obama are the same person, you are sorely mistaken.

Your original claim was that the Democrats were "just as fractured" as the Republicans. That is factually false. If you take a look at any poll of Democrats about the current candidates, they aren't even close to the polarization and dissatisfaction regarding other candidates than their preferred choice that characterize Republican voters. This article analyzes the numbers, and the latest polls show 79 percent of Democrats this year have said they’d be satisfied with Hillary as nominee - a higher number than for both Obama and Clinton at this point in 2008. That is much higher than the numbers for Trump, Rubio and Cruz among Republican voters. The Democrats are simply not as fractured as the Republicans currently are.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
thePunGun
Profile Blog Joined January 2016
598 Posts
March 04 2016 18:18 GMT
#63393
Seriously, Trump is getting a lot of shit these days and some of it is really uncalled for...and I still think he's one of the best
Hearthstone players out there.
"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5055 Posts
March 04 2016 18:20 GMT
#63394
Now Trump skipping CPAC, what a lightweight! If Rubio's temporary drop out was concerning, this is just bad. Kind of puts an exclamation mark on the last week or two, however.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
strongwind
Profile Joined July 2007
United States862 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-04 18:47:31
March 04 2016 18:47 GMT
#63395
On March 05 2016 02:23 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2016 02:10 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 17:33 JW_DTLA wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:49 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:40 acker wrote:
I don't think that the Democrats would vote for the physical embodiment of privilege. Republicans definitely wouldn't vote for the reincarnation of Karl Marx.

As for the debate...well, given that the Republican Party is busy burning itself to the ground right now, I don't think the DNC has any pressing worries at this time.

If you don't think the Democrats are just as fractured, you'd be wrong. People are tired of being caricatured along party lines, and apparently are willing to blow up the system to prove it. Donald is that bomb.


The fractured Democrats approve of the sitting Democratic president by an average of 86.7 versus 9.9 for a +76.8 spread. Show me the fracturing. Show it in numbers.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-barack-obama-213540

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/12/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/

No one said anything about Democrats disliking Obama. If you hadn't noticed, this election cycle is different than Obama's. Democrats have been presented a real choice with Sanders and Clinton, one that shows a more polarizing picture of where this party should go. There is a growing amount of discontent with the status quo even among Democrats. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think Clinton and Obama are the same person, you are sorely mistaken.

Your original claim was that the Democrats were "just as fractured" as the Republicans. That is factually false. If you take a look at any poll of Democrats about the current candidates, they aren't even close to the polarization and dissatisfaction regarding other candidates than their preferred choice that characterize Republican voters. This article analyzes the numbers, and the latest polls show 79 percent of Democrats this year have said they’d be satisfied with Hillary as nominee - a higher number than for both Obama and Clinton at this point in 2008. That is much higher than the numbers for Trump, Rubio and Cruz among Republican voters. The Democrats are simply not as fractured as the Republicans currently are.

Maybe "just as fractured" is the wrong way to state it, because the race on both sides is so different. The problem with analyzing favorability numbers is that the Dems have different problems when it comes to the general. Check out the top 4 winners on that list; none of them ended up winning the election. Sure, Dems can find one candidate favorable, but if they don't turn out to vote, it really doesn't matter.

This article points to the underlying issue with the Dems. Obviously if Trump is the nominee, all bets are off as to what will happen come Nov. 8th. I'm just saying Hillary's crowning is not so sure a thing as some might believe.
Taek Bang Fighting!
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6613 Posts
March 04 2016 19:09 GMT
#63396
On March 05 2016 03:47 strongwind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2016 02:23 kwizach wrote:
On March 05 2016 02:10 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 17:33 JW_DTLA wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:49 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:40 acker wrote:
I don't think that the Democrats would vote for the physical embodiment of privilege. Republicans definitely wouldn't vote for the reincarnation of Karl Marx.

As for the debate...well, given that the Republican Party is busy burning itself to the ground right now, I don't think the DNC has any pressing worries at this time.

If you don't think the Democrats are just as fractured, you'd be wrong. People are tired of being caricatured along party lines, and apparently are willing to blow up the system to prove it. Donald is that bomb.


The fractured Democrats approve of the sitting Democratic president by an average of 86.7 versus 9.9 for a +76.8 spread. Show me the fracturing. Show it in numbers.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-barack-obama-213540

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/12/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/

No one said anything about Democrats disliking Obama. If you hadn't noticed, this election cycle is different than Obama's. Democrats have been presented a real choice with Sanders and Clinton, one that shows a more polarizing picture of where this party should go. There is a growing amount of discontent with the status quo even among Democrats. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think Clinton and Obama are the same person, you are sorely mistaken.

Your original claim was that the Democrats were "just as fractured" as the Republicans. That is factually false. If you take a look at any poll of Democrats about the current candidates, they aren't even close to the polarization and dissatisfaction regarding other candidates than their preferred choice that characterize Republican voters. This article analyzes the numbers, and the latest polls show 79 percent of Democrats this year have said they’d be satisfied with Hillary as nominee - a higher number than for both Obama and Clinton at this point in 2008. That is much higher than the numbers for Trump, Rubio and Cruz among Republican voters. The Democrats are simply not as fractured as the Republicans currently are.

Maybe "just as fractured" is the wrong way to state it, because the race on both sides is so different. The problem with analyzing favorability numbers is that the Dems have different problems when it comes to the general. Check out the top 4 winners on that list; none of them ended up winning the election. Sure, Dems can find one candidate favorable, but if they don't turn out to vote, it really doesn't matter.

This article points to the underlying issue with the Dems. Obviously if Trump is the nominee, all bets are off as to what will happen come Nov. 8th. I'm just saying Hillary's crowning is not so sure a thing as some might believe.

That's an interesting article. It contains an analytical mistake:

“It is pretty much universally the case that the party out of power sees higher turnout during its nominating contests, but that is not determinative of general election success,” said Brian Fallon, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton. “In the last three election cycles in which Democrats controlled the White House, Republicans had higher turnout during the primaries, but Democrats went on to win the popular vote.”

What this guy is saying that in 2012, 2000, and 1996, Republican primary turnout was higher than Democratic primary turnout, but the Democrats won the popular vote in the general election. Unfortunately, if we remember, the Democrats didn't actually win the 2000 election, as the popular vote isn't how the election is decided. So it's not a meaningful point.

The more appropriate way to look at this is that the USA is building a streak of not electing the same party after a 2-term president.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 04 2016 19:43 GMT
#63397
This was the first GOP debate where I saw them make Donald Trump bleed. I really don't know whether he 'won' or 'lost'. I suspect his support is too ingrained at this point to be easily shaken. But this time Rubio and Cruz and mainly the moderators knocked Trump off his stride.

It's not a matter of catching him in some logical contradiction or baloney answer. That's happened a hundred times and it's irrelevant. The issue is that his opponents are sharpening a number of attack lines that are commonsensical, direct and understandable: the scam of Trump University, importing foreign labor for the 'short season' at Mar-a-Lago. It's hard for him to smack people down on these attacks with a single broadside.

In part it's because these attacks are simple and understandable enough that he can't bank on people not knowing the details of the question or why the underlying substance might be important. People are also used to Trump's style by now. They're not silenced by the first rhetorical wallop. More than anything though, everybody on the stage tonight, including the moderators, but with partial exception of John Kasich, was openly and unabashedly out to get Trump.

That's hard to fight.

In the earlier debates the "little Marco" or "liar" Cruz jabs were bracing, so out of bounds of political debate that people couldn't adequately respond to them. But now we're at the stage that, say, Jeb got to toward the end of his campaign. He'd learned to expect Trump's attacks, not be totally rattled by them and fight back. In this debate, though I don't have the transcript in front of me, I feel like there were several times where Trump was reduced to or ended up just repeating "little Marco" over and over as Rubio spoke, just to drown him out or bludgeon him. That comes off less as dominating than a bit embattled, frustrated. It's not a smackdown but a full on brawl.

Having said all this though, I come back to something I wrote after one of the earlier debates. Once Trump pulls you down to his level, even when you fight back, you're still down at his level. And he's better at this than you are.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12045 Posts
March 04 2016 20:26 GMT
#63398
On March 05 2016 04:09 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2016 03:47 strongwind wrote:
On March 05 2016 02:23 kwizach wrote:
On March 05 2016 02:10 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 17:33 JW_DTLA wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:49 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:40 acker wrote:
I don't think that the Democrats would vote for the physical embodiment of privilege. Republicans definitely wouldn't vote for the reincarnation of Karl Marx.

As for the debate...well, given that the Republican Party is busy burning itself to the ground right now, I don't think the DNC has any pressing worries at this time.

If you don't think the Democrats are just as fractured, you'd be wrong. People are tired of being caricatured along party lines, and apparently are willing to blow up the system to prove it. Donald is that bomb.


The fractured Democrats approve of the sitting Democratic president by an average of 86.7 versus 9.9 for a +76.8 spread. Show me the fracturing. Show it in numbers.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-barack-obama-213540

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/12/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/

No one said anything about Democrats disliking Obama. If you hadn't noticed, this election cycle is different than Obama's. Democrats have been presented a real choice with Sanders and Clinton, one that shows a more polarizing picture of where this party should go. There is a growing amount of discontent with the status quo even among Democrats. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think Clinton and Obama are the same person, you are sorely mistaken.

Your original claim was that the Democrats were "just as fractured" as the Republicans. That is factually false. If you take a look at any poll of Democrats about the current candidates, they aren't even close to the polarization and dissatisfaction regarding other candidates than their preferred choice that characterize Republican voters. This article analyzes the numbers, and the latest polls show 79 percent of Democrats this year have said they’d be satisfied with Hillary as nominee - a higher number than for both Obama and Clinton at this point in 2008. That is much higher than the numbers for Trump, Rubio and Cruz among Republican voters. The Democrats are simply not as fractured as the Republicans currently are.

Maybe "just as fractured" is the wrong way to state it, because the race on both sides is so different. The problem with analyzing favorability numbers is that the Dems have different problems when it comes to the general. Check out the top 4 winners on that list; none of them ended up winning the election. Sure, Dems can find one candidate favorable, but if they don't turn out to vote, it really doesn't matter.

This article points to the underlying issue with the Dems. Obviously if Trump is the nominee, all bets are off as to what will happen come Nov. 8th. I'm just saying Hillary's crowning is not so sure a thing as some might believe.

That's an interesting article. It contains an analytical mistake:

Show nested quote +
“It is pretty much universally the case that the party out of power sees higher turnout during its nominating contests, but that is not determinative of general election success,” said Brian Fallon, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton. “In the last three election cycles in which Democrats controlled the White House, Republicans had higher turnout during the primaries, but Democrats went on to win the popular vote.”

What this guy is saying that in 2012, 2000, and 1996, Republican primary turnout was higher than Democratic primary turnout, but the Democrats won the popular vote in the general election. Unfortunately, if we remember, the Democrats didn't actually win the 2000 election, as the popular vote isn't how the election is decided. So it's not a meaningful point.

The more appropriate way to look at this is that the USA is building a streak of not electing the same party after a 2-term president.


Yes, but i simply can not fathom why anyone would vote for any of the republican clowns, especially for Trump. I am not the biggest fan of Hillary, i am utterly confused why the americans apparently prefer her over the single person with a more european approach to a lot of things, but she is still miles ahead of any of the republicans, who just appear to a group of complete lunatics advocating utterly crazy policies based on either religious zealotry or neoliberal economics clearly favoring only the super rich.

And thus, i simply can not believe that any of those people would become the next US president. The last republican presidency was a complete disaster on all fronts (and still got reelected for some reason), and he was only stupid and did not appear as crazy as these maniacs. If any of them get elected, the US completely deserves what they get. I just hope they don't break too much of the rest of the world in the process of their self destruction.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6613 Posts
March 04 2016 20:33 GMT
#63399
On March 05 2016 04:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
This was the first GOP debate where I saw them make Donald Trump bleed. I really don't know whether he 'won' or 'lost'. I suspect his support is too ingrained at this point to be easily shaken. But this time Rubio and Cruz and mainly the moderators knocked Trump off his stride.

It's not a matter of catching him in some logical contradiction or baloney answer. That's happened a hundred times and it's irrelevant. The issue is that his opponents are sharpening a number of attack lines that are commonsensical, direct and understandable: the scam of Trump University, importing foreign labor for the 'short season' at Mar-a-Lago. It's hard for him to smack people down on these attacks with a single broadside.

In part it's because these attacks are simple and understandable enough that he can't bank on people not knowing the details of the question or why the underlying substance might be important. People are also used to Trump's style by now. They're not silenced by the first rhetorical wallop. More than anything though, everybody on the stage tonight, including the moderators, but with partial exception of John Kasich, was openly and unabashedly out to get Trump.

That's hard to fight.

In the earlier debates the "little Marco" or "liar" Cruz jabs were bracing, so out of bounds of political debate that people couldn't adequately respond to them. But now we're at the stage that, say, Jeb got to toward the end of his campaign. He'd learned to expect Trump's attacks, not be totally rattled by them and fight back. In this debate, though I don't have the transcript in front of me, I feel like there were several times where Trump was reduced to or ended up just repeating "little Marco" over and over as Rubio spoke, just to drown him out or bludgeon him. That comes off less as dominating than a bit embattled, frustrated. It's not a smackdown but a full on brawl.

Having said all this though, I come back to something I wrote after one of the earlier debates. Once Trump pulls you down to his level, even when you fight back, you're still down at his level. And he's better at this than you are.


Source

I agree with the latter points, but not the earlier ones. When politicians attack each other, or Trump attacks them, it'll often be on something like their voting record, who they took money from, what they did or didn't support. Nobody really cares if Jeb Bush smoked a joint or if Ben Carson lied about stabbing someone or whatever it was, right? Those bits are a distraction. I think the same applies when people try to dig up something cheap like a subcontractor of Trump once used illegal workers, or Trump University. If most people are like me, and think those attacks are irrelevant, he's in an advantageous position being a businessman. And he is one of the faces of American business - it's not like Carly Fiorina, who nobody really knew... her main history was being at hp when it was doing badly, so whether it was her fault or not, it was easy to attack her as a businesswoman. But whatever criticism comes Trump's way about his business record, it seems like all he has to do is remind people he controls $10 billion.

It's psychologically like when you give someone a gift that's not quite right. Like you buy someone a shirt made out of something they're allergic to. Or you give someone Vice City when they wanted San Andreas. They're more upset than they were when you hadn't given them anything. Rubio and Cruz are like those gifts.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6324 Posts
March 04 2016 20:48 GMT
#63400
On March 05 2016 05:26 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2016 04:09 oBlade wrote:
On March 05 2016 03:47 strongwind wrote:
On March 05 2016 02:23 kwizach wrote:
On March 05 2016 02:10 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 17:33 JW_DTLA wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:49 strongwind wrote:
On March 04 2016 16:40 acker wrote:
I don't think that the Democrats would vote for the physical embodiment of privilege. Republicans definitely wouldn't vote for the reincarnation of Karl Marx.

As for the debate...well, given that the Republican Party is busy burning itself to the ground right now, I don't think the DNC has any pressing worries at this time.

If you don't think the Democrats are just as fractured, you'd be wrong. People are tired of being caricatured along party lines, and apparently are willing to blow up the system to prove it. Donald is that bomb.


The fractured Democrats approve of the sitting Democratic president by an average of 86.7 versus 9.9 for a +76.8 spread. Show me the fracturing. Show it in numbers.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval_among_democrats-1046.html

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-barack-obama-213540

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/12/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/

No one said anything about Democrats disliking Obama. If you hadn't noticed, this election cycle is different than Obama's. Democrats have been presented a real choice with Sanders and Clinton, one that shows a more polarizing picture of where this party should go. There is a growing amount of discontent with the status quo even among Democrats. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you think Clinton and Obama are the same person, you are sorely mistaken.

Your original claim was that the Democrats were "just as fractured" as the Republicans. That is factually false. If you take a look at any poll of Democrats about the current candidates, they aren't even close to the polarization and dissatisfaction regarding other candidates than their preferred choice that characterize Republican voters. This article analyzes the numbers, and the latest polls show 79 percent of Democrats this year have said they’d be satisfied with Hillary as nominee - a higher number than for both Obama and Clinton at this point in 2008. That is much higher than the numbers for Trump, Rubio and Cruz among Republican voters. The Democrats are simply not as fractured as the Republicans currently are.

Maybe "just as fractured" is the wrong way to state it, because the race on both sides is so different. The problem with analyzing favorability numbers is that the Dems have different problems when it comes to the general. Check out the top 4 winners on that list; none of them ended up winning the election. Sure, Dems can find one candidate favorable, but if they don't turn out to vote, it really doesn't matter.

This article points to the underlying issue with the Dems. Obviously if Trump is the nominee, all bets are off as to what will happen come Nov. 8th. I'm just saying Hillary's crowning is not so sure a thing as some might believe.

That's an interesting article. It contains an analytical mistake:

“It is pretty much universally the case that the party out of power sees higher turnout during its nominating contests, but that is not determinative of general election success,” said Brian Fallon, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton. “In the last three election cycles in which Democrats controlled the White House, Republicans had higher turnout during the primaries, but Democrats went on to win the popular vote.”

What this guy is saying that in 2012, 2000, and 1996, Republican primary turnout was higher than Democratic primary turnout, but the Democrats won the popular vote in the general election. Unfortunately, if we remember, the Democrats didn't actually win the 2000 election, as the popular vote isn't how the election is decided. So it's not a meaningful point.

The more appropriate way to look at this is that the USA is building a streak of not electing the same party after a 2-term president.


Yes, but i simply can not fathom why anyone would vote for any of the republican clowns, especially for Trump. I am not the biggest fan of Hillary, i am utterly confused why the americans apparently prefer her over the single person with a more european approach to a lot of things, but she is still miles ahead of any of the republicans, who just appear to a group of complete lunatics advocating utterly crazy policies based on either religious zealotry or neoliberal economics clearly favoring only the super rich.

And thus, i simply can not believe that any of those people would become the next US president. The last republican presidency was a complete disaster on all fronts (and still got reelected for some reason), and he was only stupid and did not appear as crazy as these maniacs. If any of them get elected, the US completely deserves what they get. I just hope they don't break too much of the rest of the world in the process of their self destruction.

I can't imagine voting for any politician running for president in the primaries tbh. I guess a lot mroe young people have that though and that's why millenials don't really vote a lot. The way politics works at the moment (both in Europe and the US) is that it works for the elderly not for the young.
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