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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
But the government has long been pushing companies in this way. From encryption, ISPs, companies like Apple and Google. And it isn't just our government either. I distrust these agencies anyways. They have a long record of abusing their power and lying to congress / the courts about it. | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
On February 17 2016 22:18 Velr wrote: You want comedy shows to become "deep" newsshows and blame them for not being that... interesting... Yes yes, Stewart always used that line (most hilariously on crossfire - "our lead in show is *puppets making crank phone calls!*") to defend himself too. its bullshit. If the audience of The Daily Show had wanted comedy they would watch The Simpsons, or Seinfeld, or read Carl Barks. Not incidentally, all of those things are not just funnier but also more insightful than the Daily Show. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18107 Posts
On February 17 2016 22:42 Plansix wrote: I am of two minds on this. Part of me wants privacy at all time. The other side of me doesn’t want law enforcement having to push through 64+ bit encryption with every search warrant. But this needs to be handled by both the court and law enforcement. Of course there should be a key to get into an Iphone/Ipad, but apple should only be required to provide it to the FBI if judge orders it for each specific case/piece of evidence. Except that it really doesn't work that way. If Apple intentionally builds in a backdoor to your phone, then that backdoor will be accessible to any 16 y.o. script kiddie. If it's not a general backdoor but instead a separate encryption key for each iDevice, you're still opening it up to abuse, but more to the point, it adds a serious level of complexity to the OS and an onus of administration at Apple. Moreover, neither of these solutions does anything at all to prevent app level encryption (unless you're dumb enough to store your encryption key on the same device). It's the kind of dumb decision made by judges who don't really understand technology. It sounds like a good idea, but in practice will not prevent those who actually want their data encrypted, while opening everybody else to serious abuse. Imagine some random hacker gaining access to all the data on your phone, including your credit card data, because apple pay, and in the not too distant future, the code to open your front door (and of course, your address, becausé they have access to all the data on your phone). Finally, the government today is fully capable of brute forcing a 64bit AES encryption, given sufficient incentive, in a few days. However, it'll take a random script kiddie, even with a decent bot net somewhere between a fwe months to a few years, which seems like a sufficient tradeoff. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And people under estimate the power of how earnest John Stewart was about the role that was weirdly forced upon him. That viewers always felt he was trying to do the best job he could being totally not qualified for the role. The Daily Show was a joke show that turned into a place that people went to during the elections for real coverage. John didn’t seek out that role, it just happened to him and you could always see he was deeply uncomfortable with it. That he didn’t feel qualified and that got more pronounced as time went on. People talk shit about him, but he was there and people trusted him, so he tried to do something that he never really wanted to do. Also I think he lost faith traditional news agencies. I bet there was a part of him that hoped they would see all the people they lost to the daily show and think “maybe we need to try and do better.’ But that never happened. CNN looks more like a tabloid every day. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18107 Posts
On February 17 2016 22:51 Surth wrote: Yes yes, Stewart always used that line (most hilariously on crossfire - "our lead in show is *puppets making crank phone calls!*") to defend himself too. its bullshit. If the audience of The Daily Show had wanted comedy they would watch The Simpsons, or Seinfeld, or read Carl Barks. Not incidentally, all of those things are not just funnier but also more insightful than the Daily Show. I think they're funny. Colbert, Stewart and more recently Oliver are great at giving a humorous take on current events. They are not unbiased and don't claim to bring you the news, so stop watching it as an alternative to either the news or a serious analysis of it. In fact, you should probably just stop watching them altogether, if you can't appreciate this kind of show. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8632 Posts
On February 17 2016 22:18 Velr wrote: You want comedy shows to become "deep" newsshows and blame them for not being that... interesting... I totally disagree with your notion surth. they are comedy shows first, with the occasional lecture/raising awareness segment second. take it or leave it. you don't have to like it, you don't have to watch it. it's really that easy. but they sure as hell hit oil with what they are and want to be in a 24/7 perpetual bullshit news cycle that is the american media. left and right. there are some outliers which are still doing an ok job but they are struggling and are mainly for smaller circles - and they struggle heavily. the complete surrender to the for profit motif fucked just about everything the fourth estate is supposed to be - about the news and asking tough question, in doing that as much objectivity as possible. and not each party having their own major news channel, and mainly pundits praising one side and condemning the other. that too is part of healthy discussion, but it is not supposed to be the sole essence of it. and watching samantha bee's new show, john oliver and colbert - I have to say, the students have become the new masters. jon stewart's legacy is alive and well. I would even say more alive than ever. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18107 Posts
On February 17 2016 23:06 DickMcFanny wrote: It's so strange to see Apple on the right side of history for once... Only really because it would cost them boatloads of money if this actually goes through. I don't think there's anything idealistic about their defense. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4733 Posts
Also newer versions of Iphone have different (stronger) protoection which would require tottaly different approach, and this software would help in no way in cracking them. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8632 Posts
On February 17 2016 23:16 Silvanel wrote: I have read some analysis of Apple situation. And in my opinion (and not only mine) Apple is simply lying to its customers. Imagine they build this one time software. Its not enough, what they need is put this particaular iphone into engineering mode (or however Apple calls it) and provide hardware key (which is generated by Apple). Unless they will do for other cases there is no way of using that software for other phones. And using it for other versions of iphones would simply not work. Also newer versions of Iphone have different (stronger) protoection which would require tottaly different approach, and this software would help in no way in cracking them. sure they are lying... they are simply riding the snowden freedom train. because there is a huge market in it. let's just say it this way, if people were able to hack the icloud and expose just about every celebrity's disgusting sexual behaviours out there by leaking thousands of pictures - why should apple themselves not be able to have full access to their own god damn programs? for the record, I am totally fine with the feds having access to those jihadi fucks phones - there was due process involved and a judge said so. but not automatically, that's what it's unfortunately really about... | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On February 17 2016 23:06 DickMcFanny wrote: It's so strange to see Apple on the right side of history for once... When it is revealed to the world that Apple put in a backdoor into their software, who ends up looking irresponsible with other people's data? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 17 2016 23:06 Acrofales wrote: I think they're funny. Colbert, Stewart and more recently Oliver are great at giving a humorous take on current events. They are not unbiased and don't claim to bring you the news, so stop watching it as an alternative to either the news or a serious analysis of it. In fact, you should probably just stop watching them altogether, if you can't appreciate this kind of show. If people want to see the beginning of the end for US news coverage, watch the Best of Enemies. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/best_of_enemies_2015/ And here you will see when networks finally figured out a way to take news and turn it into something that wasn’t “boring” and “dull”, which is to make it more like pro-wrestling. Add in the 24/7 news cycle and you get the modern theater that we pass off as news. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4733 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Companies like Apple should be prepared to disarm the booby traps they put in their software if necessary. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
I can't believe I'm defending Apple, out of all people, but there's a reason tech companies are leaving the UK left and right when Hit... I mean Cameron wants to outright ban encryption. This is just another attack on our privacy and I will defend even Apple in that regard. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4733 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I am all for Apple protecting their clients, but they created a system where time and power alone won’t let governments get into a phone without risk of it deleting itself. This was going to happen on a long enough time line. Apple needs to get creative and figure out a way to both protect their clients, but also have keys open up the phone if 100% necessary. Edit: People need to read the order and what is being requested. Its not for them to open all Iphones. Its just one phone where the owner is super dead and killed a lot of people. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8632 Posts
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
On February 17 2016 16:59 Danglars wrote: Have you seen budgets lately? Obamacare borrowed from Medicare, now it's going belly up. Social security administration has been writing reports on its financial straights for years now. We've got 19 trillion of debt, whose servicing will continue to increase, and 100 trillion of unfunded liabilities. As far as compensating for lack of revenue, a whole host of public services will have to be cut just based on their current state. The reforms haven't been forthcoming, both parties have avoided talking about it, so it makes little sense to talk about public services now. Secondly, Trump couldn't be anything else in this primary environment than be a man with a tax cut plan. He strikes me as the kind of guy that would drop the tax schtick in two seconds on election if the political favorability wasn't gale-force behind it. He's got absolutely zero room on the border fence and something hardline on the overall immigration rate. In contrast, he just says he's working on the economy in other ways with his usual bluster and the dialogue centers on the next thing he mentions. I had to chuckle at what constitutes "conservative on redistribution" these days. The debate's so skewed left if you don't want more robbing peter to pay paul, you're some kind of conservative. He's not saying "cut public services, pay down the deficit" which is the usual line. He's saying "massively reduce taxes on the rich, make the people currently in a 0% bracket pay 0%". | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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