|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make.
Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things?
|
On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things?
I'm saying bread is generally made from yeast, flour, and water, and that you don't need to buy the yuppiest $10 loaf from Baker Bob using ingredients he procured from Farmer Frank's organic pest-ridden wheat fields in order not to balloon into Johnny Depp's mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
|
United States44450 Posts
On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things?
Yesterday I picked up a double loaf of Walmart Italian bread for 50 cents from the discount section. I doubt a three dollar loaf would have been six times as good. It was certainly great buttered and dipped into soup. Walmart discount bakery section is pretty awesome.
Honestly when I think back to bread I remember being awesome one notable example was crusty rolls from mini supermarket at 6:30 AM on a cold morning. They'd just had them delivered and they were still hot from the ovens. I bit into them without butter or anything else and the crust was crunchy and the bread inside was warm and slightly moist from the heat and delicious. Taste isn't objective, had the morning been warmer or had I had more sleep perhaps it wouldn't have been so wondrous. But those rolls were fucking good.
|
On February 13 2016 04:57 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 04:52 Plansix wrote:
The $1 loaf of Italian bread at Walmart made from what? Dough with what in it? You can make bread out of a lot of garbage and it still tastes good. We bake bread all the time and you can make it from many things, including beer. Beer bread is good bread, tbh. From flour, yeast, and water.
Flour yeast and water is what bread is SUPPOSED to be made of. It's not what cheap bread is made of. There is a lot of shit in "modern" bread like emulsifiers and preservatives. Seriously cheap bread can have 10+ ingredients for something that should have 4.
My girlfriend sometimes have stomach problems when stressed and just eating stuff that don't have emulsifiers (not necessarily because of that although it's supposed to have an effect) means you don't eat a lot of premade shit and it got better. And yes this entire paragraph is invalid because it's not scientific.
However it's a fact that the "real" bread we buy for like 5 cents more goes bad 3 times as fast. Not a problem since you can freeze half but it's saying something. Dough is historically not supposed to be processed by a machine and come out 100 % in the same way so that's why you need to add a lot of shit too it and it's not supposed to be able to be stored for days or even over a week before being bought and then lasting another full week at home.
|
On February 13 2016 05:11 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things? I'm saying bread is generally made from yeast, flour, and water, and that you don't need to buy the yuppiest $10 loaf from Baker Bob using ingredients he procured from Farmer Frank's organic pest-ridden wheat fields in order not to balloon into Johnny Depp's mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
We just normally make it ourselves. Our local baker gets buys his ingredients from a wholesaler.
I assume you are talking about this bread right here:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Marketside-Everything-Italian-Loaf-Bread-16-oz/16935739
Ingredients: Italian Loaf: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Yeast. Contains Less Than 2% of The Following: High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Soybean Oil, Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dough Conditioners (Datem, Ammonium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Enzymes, Potassium Iodate, Azodicarbonamide, L-Cysteine Hydrochloride). Everything Topping: Salt, Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Poppy Seed, And Sesame Seed. Contains: Wheat, Soy.
I don't really use a lot of that stuff in my bread. Mostly the wheat. I doubt they mix that dough in the store either. Maybe it comes a barrel and they pump it out.
|
On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread.
That's how bread is done pretty much everywhere else. If a baker adds sugar to dough here, it stops being bread and starts being a cake/pastry.
|
On February 13 2016 05:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:11 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things? I'm saying bread is generally made from yeast, flour, and water, and that you don't need to buy the yuppiest $10 loaf from Baker Bob using ingredients he procured from Farmer Frank's organic pest-ridden wheat fields in order not to balloon into Johnny Depp's mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape. We just normally make it ourselves. Our local baker gets buys his ingredients from a wholesaler. I assume you are talking about this bread right here: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Marketside-Everything-Italian-Loaf-Bread-16-oz/16935739Ingredients: Italian Loaf: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Yeast. Contains Less Than 2% of The Following: High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Soybean Oil, Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dough Conditioners (Datem, Ammonium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Enzymes, Potassium Iodate, Azodicarbonamide, L-Cysteine Hydrochloride). Everything Topping: Salt, Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Poppy Seed, And Sesame Seed. Contains: Wheat, Soy.I don't really use a lot of that stuff in my bread. Mostly the wheat. I doubt they mix that dough in the store either. Maybe it comes a barrel and they pump it out.
Is this about scientific illiteracy? You're upset that food has "chemicals" in it?
|
On February 13 2016 05:27 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:18 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:11 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things? I'm saying bread is generally made from yeast, flour, and water, and that you don't need to buy the yuppiest $10 loaf from Baker Bob using ingredients he procured from Farmer Frank's organic pest-ridden wheat fields in order not to balloon into Johnny Depp's mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape. We just normally make it ourselves. Our local baker gets buys his ingredients from a wholesaler. I assume you are talking about this bread right here: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Marketside-Everything-Italian-Loaf-Bread-16-oz/16935739Ingredients: Italian Loaf: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Yeast. Contains Less Than 2% of The Following: High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Soybean Oil, Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dough Conditioners (Datem, Ammonium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Enzymes, Potassium Iodate, Azodicarbonamide, L-Cysteine Hydrochloride). Everything Topping: Salt, Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Poppy Seed, And Sesame Seed. Contains: Wheat, Soy.I don't really use a lot of that stuff in my bread. Mostly the wheat. I doubt they mix that dough in the store either. Maybe it comes a barrel and they pump it out. Is this about scientific illiteracy? You're upset that food has "chemicals" in it?
Shouldn't he be?
If you make that thing yourself it has flour, water, yeast and possibly a pinch of salt and some oil. The rest of the things are in the bread to either a) make it easier to process the dough through the machines b) make it last longer for logistic purposes. None of it is to improve your health that's for sure.
|
On February 13 2016 05:27 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:18 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:11 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things? I'm saying bread is generally made from yeast, flour, and water, and that you don't need to buy the yuppiest $10 loaf from Baker Bob using ingredients he procured from Farmer Frank's organic pest-ridden wheat fields in order not to balloon into Johnny Depp's mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape. We just normally make it ourselves. Our local baker gets buys his ingredients from a wholesaler. I assume you are talking about this bread right here: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Marketside-Everything-Italian-Loaf-Bread-16-oz/16935739Ingredients: Italian Loaf: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Yeast. Contains Less Than 2% of The Following: High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Soybean Oil, Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dough Conditioners (Datem, Ammonium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Enzymes, Potassium Iodate, Azodicarbonamide, L-Cysteine Hydrochloride). Everything Topping: Salt, Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Poppy Seed, And Sesame Seed. Contains: Wheat, Soy.I don't really use a lot of that stuff in my bread. Mostly the wheat. I doubt they mix that dough in the store either. Maybe it comes a barrel and they pump it out. Is this about scientific illiteracy? You're upset that food has "chemicals" in it?
Azodicarbonamide is a bleaching agent. Enriched flour is flour with vitamin content added in, but that likely can’t be used by the body due to the way we absorb vitamin with fat. They are there so they can show high "nutritional value" on the label, even if we just shit them out. Its got that corn syrup in it too, which I dislike as well.
There are endless reasons why I would choose not to eat this bread, even if it was a single dollar. I would rather pay 4-6 dollars and get bread without a bleaching agent.
|
On February 13 2016 04:49 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 04:28 OtherWorld wrote:On February 13 2016 04:15 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 04:13 Plansix wrote:
Obesity is related to shitty food being cheap, while healthy food costs more. I am sure some of that food tastes different. There's no difference between the food found at Walmart and that at any other average supermarket. True healthy food is not found in supermarkets though, but at your local butcher/baker/vegetable vendor/etc. If that's even a thing in the US. You can't buy a $1 loaf of Italian bread at Walmart because it's not truly healthy?
You can, but it'll be less healthy (and tasty) than your Italian bread found in a bakery (assuming the bakery is making its own bread ofc). The 1$ you'll pay at Walmart includes : Walmart's margin, Walmart's costs of running the supermarket, the transport between the bread factory and the supermarket, the transporter's margin, the cost of producing & packaging the bread and the bread producer's margin. That leaves little money for quality raw materials. Compare that with your local bakery, where half of these elements disappear. Much better quality raw materials.
e : Also, just eat a mofo homemade baguette and compare it with an industrial baguette. You don't even need to eat them to see the difference, just to smell them.
|
United States44450 Posts
On February 13 2016 05:33 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:27 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:18 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:11 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things? I'm saying bread is generally made from yeast, flour, and water, and that you don't need to buy the yuppiest $10 loaf from Baker Bob using ingredients he procured from Farmer Frank's organic pest-ridden wheat fields in order not to balloon into Johnny Depp's mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape. We just normally make it ourselves. Our local baker gets buys his ingredients from a wholesaler. I assume you are talking about this bread right here: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Marketside-Everything-Italian-Loaf-Bread-16-oz/16935739Ingredients: Italian Loaf: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Yeast. Contains Less Than 2% of The Following: High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Soybean Oil, Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dough Conditioners (Datem, Ammonium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Enzymes, Potassium Iodate, Azodicarbonamide, L-Cysteine Hydrochloride). Everything Topping: Salt, Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Poppy Seed, And Sesame Seed. Contains: Wheat, Soy.I don't really use a lot of that stuff in my bread. Mostly the wheat. I doubt they mix that dough in the store either. Maybe it comes a barrel and they pump it out. Is this about scientific illiteracy? You're upset that food has "chemicals" in it? Shouldn't he be? If you make that thing yourself it has flour, water, yeast and possibly a pinch of salt and some oil. The rest of the things are in the bread to either a) make it easier to process the dough through the machines b) make it last longer for logistic purposes. None of it is to improve your health that's for sure.
Citation needed.
Bread as it has been consumed for the last three thousand years is incredibly unhealthy. The invention of bread allowed the formation of cities which was great for civilization but it came at a pretty high cost in health. Bread is not some uniquely pure substance which can only be tainted by adding other ingredients. Quite the opposite. Historically speaking bread has been the problem with human diets with the only thing worse than eating bread being eating nothing at all. The reason it's so popular is because the alternative literally was eating nothing at all, only bread allowed populations of those sizes to form.
|
Good for you. But you are still tilting at windmills blaming that bread for obesity.
|
Cheap, energy dense food with low usable nutritional value was what folks were blaming. The bread discussion was because someone decided that Walmart bread was made of wheat, flour and water, which is completely incorrect. But it does meet the standard of energy dense food with low usable nutritional value.
|
I think everyone is talking past each other at this point. Obesity is caused, in general, by a combination of eating too much food and not getting enough exercise. I commend people for wanting to eat food without chemicals or high fructose corn syrup, but processed food at Walmart is more likely to give a person cancer in 40 years than make them obese immediately. I don't think there is any basis for saying that 3,000 McDonald's or Walmart calories will make someone obese while 3,000 Whole Foods or Trader Joe's calories will not. To people who are concerned about copious amounts of chemicals in food, paying the extra money for organic makes sense, assuming they have the money to do so.
You can get five double cheeseburgers at McDonald's for $5, and that is more than any person should probably eat. Are you going to blame McDonald's for that, or the person for ordering too much food? Perhaps our culture is more to blame than these businesses: if people treated food as a method of survival rather than an extravagance, obesity would be less of a problem. I am as guilty of this as anyone: I love food, and it is difficult for me to stay in shape as a result. But I can also afford it.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
walmart has lower logistic cost than mom and pop stores.
food snobbery should be reserved for high cuisine not whatever primitive grown tomato slapped with organic plastic
|
there is a certain biological/ evolutionary angle though. we're programmed to scarf down stuff like sugar and fat because those were formerly rare and relatively valuable ultra calorie dense foodstuffs. now it's really common and we haven't had even close to the amount of time needed to adapt. i guess we know these facts (collectively at any rate) but self control is hard.
|
On February 13 2016 05:58 oneofthem wrote:
walmart has lower logistic cost than mom and pop stores.
food snobbery should be reserved for high cuisine not whatever primitive grown tomato slapped with organic plastic
eating quality food, assuming you can afford it financially, is a day-to-day fight, not something that you should only find in top restaurants. Though if you don't mind dieing at 50 I guess it's alright
|
Obesity is not a sin, don't be judgemental. Take it from Bety : embrace your sexy.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.facebook.com/EmpireFOX/videos/460973214099518/
|
I never talked about organic food at all. We buy food from a lot of places. Just because I read labels and don’t buy bread that is made from dough shipped cross country doesn’t mean I’m a food snob. We still buy frozen veggies like everyone else.
|
On February 13 2016 05:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2016 05:11 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:07 Plansix wrote:On February 13 2016 05:03 oBlade wrote:On February 13 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:
That is going to be some shitty bread. You might want to add salt, sugar and oil of some form. Do you know if teh Walmart mixed the dough from raw ingredients in the store, or do they ship the dough nation wide and bake it on site? That is what our super market does and I don't buy a lot of their bread because it has high fructose corn syrup, not sugar. It's not surprising there's nothing I could have said that would have stopped you from trying to manufacture fault with bread of all things, which has been a staple for thousands of years, and is something we as a species have figured out pretty well how to make. Are you saying that all Italian bread, across all of the US, is created equal and made of the same things? I'm saying bread is generally made from yeast, flour, and water, and that you don't need to buy the yuppiest $10 loaf from Baker Bob using ingredients he procured from Farmer Frank's organic pest-ridden wheat fields in order not to balloon into Johnny Depp's mother from What's Eating Gilbert Grape. We just normally make it ourselves. Our local baker gets buys his ingredients from a wholesaler. I assume you are talking about this bread right here: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Marketside-Everything-Italian-Loaf-Bread-16-oz/16935739Ingredients: Italian Loaf: Enriched Flour (Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Yeast. Contains Less Than 2% of The Following: High Fructose Corn Syrup, Salt, Soybean Oil, Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Phosphate, Dough Conditioners (Datem, Ammonium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid, Enzymes, Potassium Iodate, Azodicarbonamide, L-Cysteine Hydrochloride). Everything Topping: Salt, Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Poppy Seed, And Sesame Seed. Contains: Wheat, Soy.I don't really use a lot of that stuff in my bread. Mostly the wheat. I doubt they mix that dough in the store either. Maybe it comes a barrel and they pump it out.
Lol. Wtf is that ingredient list for bread?! For real? Less than 2% hfcs and salt. Can you imagine bread with more than 2% of either of those?!
Also this exemplifies the problem with modern "food". Our mills are great and can make the whitest of white flour. But that removes pretty much anything that is nutritious about wheat. So instead of milling it less fine, and not separating out so much of the fibers, they then add in artificial vitamins and fibres in the hope that it gives the same effect. Bread should not have a whole page of ingredients...
The same goes for plenty of other processed foods. A hamburger patty should contain meat, salt, some herbs and spices and if we're being generous, a conservative. That isn't what you'll find in your hamburger patty in the supermarket.
It might taste just fine. Hell, because they just add in some hfcs, it probably tastes fantastic! But eat enough of that shit and say hello to diabetes, and goodbye to your feet.
That's not to say you cannot pick and choose your way to a balanced, healthy, diet at Walmart. It just means you need to know a lot more about food than 99% of the population does. Kwark seems to be the lucky 1%, as always.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
