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On July 23 2015 08:32 Introvert wrote:
Yeah, that "traitor" assertion was dumb even by liberal media standards. They didn't back off, it's just that negotiations continued and they basically signed away their power with that dumb bill they passed.
But again- boring. Point is, there are lots of things that could ne discussed.
If the (at most) two weeks of treason claims make the liberal media "dumb", does that mean that the seven years of impeachment claims makes the conservative media severely mentally retarded?
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On July 23 2015 08:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 08:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 23 2015 08:01 Jormundr wrote:On July 23 2015 07:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 23 2015 07:47 Introvert wrote:On July 23 2015 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 23 2015 07:34 Introvert wrote:On July 23 2015 06:02 zatic wrote:
So I have been following this thread more or less passively, is there anything important happening these days in the US other than Republican presidential candidates, and cops shooting blacks? Serious question. Lots of things. Iran for one. But Trump is a far better story. The media does indeed show what sells, snd that is reflected here- despite all the whining about our media (which is terrible). Enlighten us as to what about the Iran deal is important that we haven't covered? I'm out and about, but there was like 2 pages worth pf posts on it and then not a peep since then. More details were released, people could discuss how it's going down with the UN. But all there is is silence. Which is fine, we don't have to talk about anything. But there is certainly more going on than Trump statements and Sanders campaign stops. No one is stopping you from talking about what you want. You think there is something significant feel free to share, but just complaining about people not talking about what you want them to isn't accomplishing anything. Problem is that you've become like a more spammy xDaunt circa 2012. Well judging by the general responses people really don't appreciate the significance or the magnitude of Bernie's campaign, I'd like them to at least know what's happening before they just parrot the mainstream media's take on Sanders. What's happening is unprecedented in American politics and will catch many here off guard when they finally notice it without jaded lenses. That's fine, but take it down a notch. Not everyone here is as invested as you.
I know, my point is that they should be. This election will be about who controls the US. It will either be big money interests or it will be the people. I've sided with the people, I think more people should.
I'll lay off for a while though, see what gets discussed instead.
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On July 23 2015 06:02 zatic wrote:
So I have been following this thread more or less passively, is there anything important happening these days in the US other than Republican presidential candidates, and cops shooting blacks? Serious question.
California is seriously short on water.
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On July 23 2015 08:41 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 08:32 Introvert wrote:
Yeah, that "traitor" assertion was dumb even by liberal media standards. They didn't back off, it's just that negotiations continued and they basically signed away their power with that dumb bill they passed.
But again- boring. Point is, there are lots of things that could ne discussed.
If the (at most) two weeks of treason claims make the liberal media "dumb", does that mean that the seven years of impeachment claims makes the conservative media severely mentally retarded?
I've never been on the impeachment train, but nice. As usual "he did it first!"
Besides, "traitor" is a well-loved word in American politics. It was *gasp* even used by liberal pundits and media when they were angry with Bush. And it was used before then. And as a rule, it's always a stupid/wrong thing to say. It's just to rile people up.
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Y'know, I am beginning to dislike Sanders just because someone won't shut up about how he's on the right side of every issue brought up in this thread. Too much evangelizing.
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On July 23 2015 09:06 ticklishmusic wrote:
Y'know, I am beginning to dislike Sanders just because someone won't shut up about how he's on the right side of every issue brought up in this thread. Too much evangelizing.
I said I was stopping... Not sure how or why what I do would make you dislike someone else, but alright. I already got some people ready to help and I'll just focus on them for now. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
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On July 23 2015 08:41 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 06:02 zatic wrote:
So I have been following this thread more or less passively, is there anything important happening these days in the US other than Republican presidential candidates, and cops shooting blacks? Serious question. California is seriously short on water.
And Oregon is having its longest drought since '92 with plenty of summer left. As to zatic's question, I suppose it depends on your priorities. For a hippie environmentalist like myself, there are monumentally important things going on right now. Shell getting the go ahead today to drill in the arctic, depite our Sen. Merkley's bill to stop it (still in process in Congress) and bill HR 2811 trying to prevent a foreign mining corporation from devastating Oak Flat (Apache sacred land in Tonto National Forest under protection since Eisenhower). Even if you are heartless enough not to care about Native Americans, this sets a horrible precedent.
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I read the last couple pages of GreenHorizons/Bernie Sanders beef.
I've posted a couple times about him, and I'm obviously a super fan of most of his policies. That being said, I DO understand the need to not come off as cultish or like Ron Paul bots (for the record, I believe there is a lot more substance behind Sanders' positions).
For me, the main reason I am so excited about Bernie Sanders is his stance on money in politics-- and not taking any SuperPac money. Look, I don't care whether you are a Mike Huckabee fan or Ted Cruz or whoever else-- wouldn't it be nice to have an election won by ideas and policy proposals rather than $$$? It is a critical time for our democracy and its legitimacy, and it really speaks to Bernie's character that he's willing to take on big money interests publicly.
For the record, I will be equally admirable to any Republican candidates that take similar stances on money in politics. It would truly be a conservative idea (less spending, after all). Anyways, the allure of a candidate willing to discuss issues and not tabloid worthy news cycles makes people like me and GH excited... sometimes to a fault.
Anyhoo, carry on!
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I'll second darthfoley's motion 
Go Bernie
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On July 23 2015 08:01 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 07:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 23 2015 07:47 Introvert wrote:On July 23 2015 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 23 2015 07:34 Introvert wrote:On July 23 2015 06:02 zatic wrote:
So I have been following this thread more or less passively, is there anything important happening these days in the US other than Republican presidential candidates, and cops shooting blacks? Serious question. Lots of things. Iran for one. But Trump is a far better story. The media does indeed show what sells, snd that is reflected here- despite all the whining about our media (which is terrible). Enlighten us as to what about the Iran deal is important that we haven't covered? I'm out and about, but there was like 2 pages worth pf posts on it and then not a peep since then. More details were released, people could discuss how it's going down with the UN. But all there is is silence. Which is fine, we don't have to talk about anything. But there is certainly more going on than Trump statements and Sanders campaign stops. No one is stopping you from talking about what you want. You think there is something significant feel free to share, but just complaining about people not talking about what you want them to isn't accomplishing anything. Problem is that you've become like a more spammy xDaunt circa 2012.
Not even close. I never pushed any specific candidate, because I wasn't fond of any of them. I just offered ill-fated opinions regarding what I thought was going to happen in the election. I'm sure that I'll have plenty of such opinions to offer this time around, too.
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The real answer is to place heavy limits on campaign spending and let them all run for President.
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I have a question for the Sanders camp or anyone else who strongly supports a candidate and believes their candidate will make a difference.
How will your candidate defeat gridlock and political shenanigans in congress? What congressional reforms will he propose and how will he get congress to pass those reforms?
My belief is that Obama genuinely believed he would bring massive positive change on a number of issues socially, economically, and internationally. I think he wanted almost completely socialized health care, instead we got the abomination that is Obamacare. It took almost all of his "political capital" after 2012 to get that watered down piece of junk to pass. I think he wanted gun legislation, but hasn't been able to get a single meaningful gun law passed. It's a complete non-starter in congress. You can see it when he talks about "another mass shooting" and he seems to feel helpless despite being the fucking president of the United States.
I'm pretty cynical on politics. I think we could elect Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Churchill, Ghandi, or Alexander the Great as president and it wouldn't make a difference. As long as they follow the checks and balances (and not set fire to congress and then declare Marshall Law or assassinate opposition), none of those people could get anything significant done for good or evil.
So how is your favorite candidate going to get anything done?
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2 words: Judicial Appointments.
Seriously, the next president might get to appoint upwards of 3-4 Supreme Court justices, and the Circuits are old as hell as well.
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On July 23 2015 12:51 farvacola wrote:
2 words: Judicial Appointments.
Seriously, the next president might get to appoint upwards of 3-4 Supreme Court justices, and the Circuits are old as hell as well.
If Bernie Sanders was able to appoint ~3 Supreme Court Justices, that would be incredibly beneficial long term... it would accomplish more than just hypothetical-President-Bernie's 4-year term.
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On July 23 2015 06:36 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 06:32 kwizach wrote:
GreenHorizons, I'm left-wing myself but if you could tone down a bit your campaigning for Sanders it would make reading your posts more enjoyable. At this rate I can't even imagine what it's going to be like during the primary itself. There are hundreds of people who read this thread and never post (a lot of the info is for them). Sorry if I think this election is critically important and that Sanders is the only candidate who isn't going to be/already paid off by big money interests. I feel like my country and my future is on the line and I actually have a candidate that represents my views, I'm going to make sure others who feel similarly are also in the loop.
Sander's has a higher % of PAC donations than Rand Paul (via opensecrets.org), and guess who always received 0 "big money"? Ron Paul. So, to say that Sanders is something new is pretty hilarious - besides, most of his policy prescriptions would give more power to the Feds which is the problem in the first place (too much centralized power). In any event, it's nice to see that at least some people have found someone they can support. If there were only more politicians who were substance and policy-based rather than name, money, or media-established. Then again, pinning all hope on the Potomac can only end in disaster. Local and State elections are far more important imho.
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I'm not talking about Bernie for a while, but I am curious who people think will win the 9th/10th slots in the Republican debate?
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On July 23 2015 13:15 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not talking about Bernie for a while, but I am curious who people think will win the 9th/10th slots in the Republican debate?
I'm hoping Perry and Graham are both in. I'm a fan of anyone with the most drama with Trump at the moment.
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On July 23 2015 12:06 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2015 08:01 Jormundr wrote:On July 23 2015 07:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 23 2015 07:47 Introvert wrote:On July 23 2015 07:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 23 2015 07:34 Introvert wrote:On July 23 2015 06:02 zatic wrote:
So I have been following this thread more or less passively, is there anything important happening these days in the US other than Republican presidential candidates, and cops shooting blacks? Serious question. Lots of things. Iran for one. But Trump is a far better story. The media does indeed show what sells, snd that is reflected here- despite all the whining about our media (which is terrible). Enlighten us as to what about the Iran deal is important that we haven't covered? I'm out and about, but there was like 2 pages worth pf posts on it and then not a peep since then. More details were released, people could discuss how it's going down with the UN. But all there is is silence. Which is fine, we don't have to talk about anything. But there is certainly more going on than Trump statements and Sanders campaign stops. No one is stopping you from talking about what you want. You think there is something significant feel free to share, but just complaining about people not talking about what you want them to isn't accomplishing anything. Problem is that you've become like a more spammy xDaunt circa 2012. Not even close. I never pushed any specific candidate, because I wasn't fond of any of them. I just offered ill-fated opinions regarding what I thought was going to happen in the election. I'm sure that I'll have plenty of such opinions to offer this time around, too. I'll be looking forward to the caster's curse predictions in the general (heck, even when the primaries heat up).
On July 23 2015 06:02 zatic wrote:
So I have been following this thread more or less passively, is there anything important happening these days in the US other than Republican presidential candidates, and cops shooting blacks? Serious question.
More executive orders/agency orders on immigration (DHS proposed rules)
Hillary's slumping
Muslim extremist kills Marines in Chattanooga (which has got all the US Flags near me flying at half-mast)
Umm, if you're into it, hackers and 'IOT' connected cars. The usual internet insecurity coupled with internet coupled cars.
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On July 23 2015 12:49 RenSC2 wrote:
I have a question for the Sanders camp or anyone else who strongly supports a candidate and believes their candidate will make a difference.
How will your candidate defeat gridlock and political shenanigans in congress? What congressional reforms will he propose and how will he get congress to pass those reforms?
My belief is that Obama genuinely believed he would bring massive positive change on a number of issues socially, economically, and internationally. I think he wanted almost completely socialized health care, instead we got the abomination that is Obamacare. It took almost all of his "political capital" after 2012 to get that watered down piece of junk to pass. I think he wanted gun legislation, but hasn't been able to get a single meaningful gun law passed. It's a complete non-starter in congress. You can see it when he talks about "another mass shooting" and he seems to feel helpless despite being the fucking president of the United States.
I'm pretty cynical on politics. I think we could elect Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Churchill, Ghandi, or Alexander the Great as president and it wouldn't make a difference. As long as they follow the checks and balances (and not set fire to congress and then declare Marshall Law or assassinate opposition), none of those people could get anything significant done for good or evil.
So how is your favorite candidate going to get anything done?
Aside from SCOTUS/Courts which people mentioned, a principled President can demand actual, sensible reforms, without weaklings in their own party subverting them, like can happen when you have majorities in Congress. The thing is, most Presidents get elected because they lack real convictions. This is particularly important to note if you are "losing" via the status quo.
Democrats, for instance would probably like to have a principled campaign finance guy in office, or military dove. Because he can simply veto all bills that do not advance his interests in that direction, including budgets. The only weakness there is if he cares about budgets more than those issues its no help really, because Dems already have a fairly favorable budget situation.
Republicans, on the other hand, are losing the budget side of the budget issue if we keep doing CRs, and entitlement spending, and Obamacare, so if you get a Rand Paul in there, he can veto budgets that don't give him marginal wins. 4 Years of marginal wins on the budget and tax policy could add up.
The problem you have seen with Obama/Bush with regards to these issues (that make the President seem less important) is that Bush really wasn't a budgetary hawk, and Obama (once he got Healthcare) was focused mainly on issues that the Democrats are already (mostly) winning like immigration, taxes on the wealthy, and expanding the budget. Compromises on those issues, are, for the Democrats, losses most of the time.
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On July 23 2015 12:49 RenSC2 wrote:
I have a question for the Sanders camp or anyone else who strongly supports a candidate and believes their candidate will make a difference.
How will your candidate defeat gridlock and political shenanigans in congress? What congressional reforms will he propose and how will he get congress to pass those reforms?
My belief is that Obama genuinely believed he would bring massive positive change on a number of issues socially, economically, and internationally. I think he wanted almost completely socialized health care, instead we got the abomination that is Obamacare. It took almost all of his "political capital" after 2012 to get that watered down piece of junk to pass. I think he wanted gun legislation, but hasn't been able to get a single meaningful gun law passed. It's a complete non-starter in congress. You can see it when he talks about "another mass shooting" and he seems to feel helpless despite being the fucking president of the United States.
I'm pretty cynical on politics. I think we could elect Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Churchill, Ghandi, or Alexander the Great as president and it wouldn't make a difference. As long as they follow the checks and balances (and not set fire to congress and then declare Marshall Law or assassinate opposition), none of those people could get anything significant done for good or evil.
So how is your favorite candidate going to get anything done?
my favorite candidate is me. My odds aren't very good of course, due to poor name recognition 
in response to your second paragraph questions: Simple, I won't. It is not the job of the president to pass legislation. It is the job of the president to run the executive branch. There are plenty of worthwhile things for a president to work on. Commander in chief of the armed forces, there's an awful lot of troops to oversee; heading the federal bureaucracy, making sure people do their jobs efficiently, dealing with inter-agency issues; foreign policy; nominating people, there's hundreds (or maybe thousands) of presidential appointees, spending time finding the best people for the job is time well spent. Any of those things by themselves could be a full time job easily. If Congress is in a dysfunctional state, I simply focus on doing the job of president. I'd of course send a few proposals to congress, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to get them passed if its not going to be a productive use of time.
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EPT
