EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2076
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23640 Posts
He's just as hopey and changey as Obama was on the campaign trail, except no one has really called him out on it. Yeah mostly because he's been saying this stuff and making it happen for decades. Plus he's made it explicitly clear he can't do it on his own, and needs his supporters to keep the pressure on even after he's elected, like has happened in his home state. Obama let his supporters check out after the election, and caved to SuperPAC and big money interests. Bernie isn't. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
He's sponsored 3 bills which have become law, 2 of which are to name post offices in Vermont. Color me not impressed. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
On July 02 2015 14:43 ticklishmusic wrote: What legislation has he sponsored or other moved through Congress in his many years? not really what being in congress is about. that's like the fallacy of "publish or perish" in academe | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23640 Posts
On July 02 2015 14:43 ticklishmusic wrote: What legislation has he sponsored or other moved through Congress in his many years? Not much personally, as he's represented a minority opinion for so long. But just like Civil rights (he participated in sit-ins and attended MLK's "I Have a Dream Speech") Marriage Equality (he's been for since the 70's), and many other issues, the country has just finally caught up to where he's been for decades. A fundamental difference between Sanders and everyone else is he has represented the same stuff for decades, while all the other politicians are just now starting to imitate him and claim credit for stuff he's fought his whole political life for. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Obama didn't abandon his supporters. The ones feeling betrayed are the ones who believed that president Obama would be able to govern as far left as candidate Obama was. Gee, wasn't that silly of them? Bernie being a guy with strong moral convictions who is eventually proven right is not a sign he'll be an effective Democratic candidate or president. That's my point. His record doesn't suggest anything to the contrary either. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
i think we need to define words if we're going to talk to one another. what does 'left' mean to you? In what way is Obama 'left'? Obama completely abandoned the people who got him elected in the first place. He turned into a neoliberal running dog. Fuck Barack Obama. Vote Sanders 2016 | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
If I were in Congress, I'd propose a budget that is fully balanced, as well as a long term fix to social security and medical costs. They wouldn't pass of course due to unpopularity, but I'd still submit them. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
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Introvert
United States4897 Posts
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
On July 02 2015 15:00 Introvert wrote: This thread really is something right now. Will the Bernie obsession reach even greater heights? I hope so, because chances are he will fail, and when he does it will be glorious to watch. what will you bet me | ||
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YoureFired
United States822 Posts
I'm just gonna leave this here. but seriously, the clown car GOP and the money-machine/RINObutDemocrat Hillary are gonna have stiff competition. The reason people are obsessed with Bernie is because he's a good candidate. but keep going armchair politicians, tell me how America will think. They've already spoken with their feet at his rallies. | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On July 02 2015 14:53 bookwyrm wrote: what do you mean, "kinda true"? I don't really understand your post. You speak of "languishing in obscurity," Who says that seeking fame is what the thing is about? What if that is the problem?? Bernie Sanders says that "this campaign is not about Bernie Sanders." He's completely right. Bernie Sanders has never done a thing in his life to seek fame for Bernie Sanders. Sanders has the reputation he has because he is a man of integrity. Find somebody from Vermont, no matter their political persuasion, and ask them what they think about Bernie Sanders. I dare you. i think we need to define words if we're going to talk to one another. what does 'left' mean to you? In what way is Obama 'left'? Obama completely abandoned the people who got him elected in the first place. He turned into a neoliberal running dog. Fuck Barack Obama. Vote Sanders 2016 Obama didn't abandon anyone, he ran into the brick wall that is GOP stubborness for most of his time in office while trying to play the nice guy. Even still he managed to bulldog in some of his shit anyway causing the GOP to lose its collective mind and effectively perform a congressional slowdown where they languish doing stupid shit like try to get Obamacare repealed a billion times. Sure you can say he has ended up doing some things the left isn't thrilled out but still he isn't the demon you are making him seem like. Sanders sounds like the kind of guy who has good ideas, the thing I am looking from him is viable and practical ways to implement his good ideas and get it passed. As an aside, Publish of Perish is absolutely true in academia. | ||
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Introvert
United States4897 Posts
Nothing, because I'm rooting for my own long shots. It's entirely possible- but odds are neither my picks nor Sanders will even win the primary, much less the general. So for now I'm just going to take it all in. The only thing better than Bernie losing the primary will be a Republican winning the general election. This thread would be awesome. Also, I don't much care about Sanders. I'm not a leftist in any respect, so I just watch this Bernie love from a distance as an amused spectator. If he wins the primary then there is work to be done. But I'll leave that to the voters in the Democratic primary. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Publish or perish is a harsh reality for the vast majority in academia. If your point is that quality is more important than volume, I can agree with that. However, having zero output, e.g. not adding to the body of knowledge is a problem. Maybe some people manage to have a decades-long "career" where the one thing they write is their thesis (and I would dearly like to know how), but they are the incredibly rare exception to the rule. Anyways, the comparison is a distraction. Bernie's record consists of taking a bunch of moral stances, but precious little in terms of making a material difference. I'll respect the man, but I'm not voting for the candidate. He's had years and years to demonstrate his effectiveness, and he just hasn't (except for his stint as a mayor like 30 years ago). Those are the facts to me, and bashing Obama, Clinton or whoever else is irrelevant. I want to know if Sanders can actually get shit done. I may be liberal, but I'm also pragmatic. Interestingly, Obama actually sponsored 2 bills that became law as a Senator. Bernie has 3 (two of which are naming post offices) as I mentioned above. On July 02 2015 14:59 bookwyrm wrote: so the fact that Bernie Sanders has not singlehandedly proposed a solution to everybody's problems is a good reason why he's a bad candidate for presidency. Gotcha You're being facetious and sarcastic. How about you try being a better champion for your candidate? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23640 Posts
On July 02 2015 15:00 Introvert wrote: This thread really is something right now. Will the Bernie obsession reach even greater heights? I hope so, because chances are he will fail, and when he does it will be glorious to watch. I want a piece of whatever you bet against Book. A sig bet should be a minimum. On July 02 2015 15:03 Introvert wrote: Nothing, because I'm rooting for my own long shots. It's entirely possible- but odds are neither my picks nor Sanders will even win the primary, much less the general. So for now I'm just going to take it all in. The only thing better than Bernie losing the primary will be a Republican winning the general election. This thread would be awesome. Also, I don't much care about Sanders. I'm not a leftist in any respect, so I just watch this Bernie love from a distance as an amused spectator. If he wins the primary then there is work to be done. But I'll leave that to the voters in the Democratic primary. You seem sure what do you have to lose? The basic equation for how Bernie get's things done as president is he points at 10's of millions of new voters that support him and asks if democrats and republicans in purple districts really want to piss them off. Low turnout and lackadaisical voter participation are the only ways the republicans have the house. If a majority of Americans actually voted in midterms they would get crushed in many places. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
On July 02 2015 15:03 Slaughter wrote: Obama didn't abandon anyone, he ran into the brick wall that is GOP stubborness for most of his time in office while trying to play the nice guy. Even still he managed to bulldog in some of his shit anyway causing the GOP to lose its collective mind and effectively perform a congressional slowdown where they languish doing stupid shit like try to get Obamacare repealed a billion times. Sure you can say he has ended up doing some things the left isn't thrilled out but still he isn't the demon you are making him seem like. Sanders sounds like the kind of guy who has good ideas, the thing I am looking from him is viable and practical ways to implement his good ideas and get it passed. Obama is a running dog puppet of oligarchs. As an aside, Publish of Perish is absolutely true in academia. you just don't get it. Don't you realize that I am an academic? I'm saying that your measure of what is an effective career is flawed. It's true, but it's a social reality constructed upon a false premise - i.e. something that we should change through political action On July 02 2015 15:04 ticklishmusic wrote: You're being facetious and sarcastic. How about you try being a better champion for your candidate? don't tell me how to be me! On July 02 2015 15:04 ticklishmusic wrote: Interestingly, Obama actually sponsored 2 bills that became law as a Senator. Bernie has 3 (two of which are naming post offices) as I mentioned above. it's not a fucking baseball game | ||
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Introvert
United States4897 Posts
On July 02 2015 15:04 GreenHorizons wrote: I want a piece of whatever you bet against Book. A sig bet should be a minimum. You seem sure what do you have to lose? I'm not a betting person by nature. I haven't even made any predictions- precisely because anything can happen. That's how I approach most things, and it fits right in with my conservatism  | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On July 02 2015 15:06 bookwyrm wrote: Obama is a running dog puppet of oligarchs. you just don't get it. Don't you realize that I am an academic? I'm saying that your measure of what is an effective career is flawed. It's true, but it's a social reality constructed upon a false premise - i.e. something that we should change through political action don't tell me how to be me! I am an academic too, so what? Its not about "my measure" its about reality and the reality is that jobs in the academic field come mostly from your publication rate and history. | ||
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bookwyrm
United States722 Posts
look man. you are confused about the difference between a description of reality and an assessment of a reality. are you in a field where they read books? | ||
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