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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2074

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
July 01 2015 23:30 GMT
#41461
On July 01 2015 13:51 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2015 04:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 01 2015 04:38 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's really sad that Bobby Jindal is basically on the same level as Trump.


Except Trump is in 2nd, not 12th.


Well, he didn't tank the economy and education system of an entire state


Bobby Jindal is such an interesting character - the guy was appointed to a state cabinet position at the age of 24, and was the president of the Louisiana State University System at 28. That's insane.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24399 Posts
July 01 2015 23:33 GMT
#41462
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-01 23:37:45
July 01 2015 23:36 GMT
#41463
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24399 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-01 23:58:19
July 01 2015 23:50 GMT
#41464
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:




Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
July 02 2015 00:02 GMT
#41465
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.
Never Knows Best.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24399 Posts
July 02 2015 00:05 GMT
#41466
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
July 02 2015 00:10 GMT
#41467
On July 02 2015 09:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.


I dunno, my personal experience tells me that his association with socialism is a death knell. Socialism seems to be a dirty word in the US and I think it would be too easy for the GOP to pick him apart in the eyes of the larger public. Sure I know a lot of people who would support him (mainly the people I know from my academic circles) but to the regular joe? Socialism might have well be the new communism for how much people seem to hate it.
Never Knows Best.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
July 02 2015 00:14 GMT
#41468
On July 02 2015 09:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.


There's a couple reasons why people feel this way:

1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.

2. Bill Clinton is still quite popular among Americans, and that could buoy her up. She is also very well connected with the Democratic party elites and key stakeholders.

3. Much more experience running national campaigns than Sanders (both from her own experience and her husbands)

4. She is more centrist in her views, which could appeal to a large group of voters (liberals voters would still vote for her over the Republican candidate, even if the views don't match up 100%).

5. Massive fundraising and campaign ground-game
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 02 2015 01:06 GMT
#41469
On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 09:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.


There's a couple reasons why people feel this way:

1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.

2. Bill Clinton is still quite popular among Americans, and that could buoy her up. She is also very well connected with the Democratic party elites and key stakeholders.

3. Much more experience running national campaigns than Sanders (both from her own experience and her husbands)

4. She is more centrist in her views, which could appeal to a large group of voters (liberals voters would still vote for her over the Republican candidate, even if the views don't match up 100%).

5. Massive fundraising and campaign ground-game

2 is probably the most important, but you missed the 2nd most important one: First Female President.

People who want Warren are delusional if they think she would beat a top tier Republican, and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.
Freeeeeeedom
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24399 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-02 01:11:13
July 02 2015 01:09 GMT
#41470
On July 02 2015 10:06 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.


There's a couple reasons why people feel this way:

1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.

2. Bill Clinton is still quite popular among Americans, and that could buoy her up. She is also very well connected with the Democratic party elites and key stakeholders.

3. Much more experience running national campaigns than Sanders (both from her own experience and her husbands)

4. She is more centrist in her views, which could appeal to a large group of voters (liberals voters would still vote for her over the Republican candidate, even if the views don't match up 100%).

5. Massive fundraising and campaign ground-game

2 is probably the most important, but you missed the 2nd most important one: First Female President.

People who want Warren are delusional if they think she would beat a top tier Republican, and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.




That is pretty funny. As if Lindsey could fill a 10,000 person arena in Wisconsin on his best day, let alone have another 8k Watch on youtube.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-02 01:14:33
July 02 2015 01:13 GMT
#41471
On July 02 2015 10:06 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.


There's a couple reasons why people feel this way:

1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.

2. Bill Clinton is still quite popular among Americans, and that could buoy her up. She is also very well connected with the Democratic party elites and key stakeholders.

3. Much more experience running national campaigns than Sanders (both from her own experience and her husbands)

4. She is more centrist in her views, which could appeal to a large group of voters (liberals voters would still vote for her over the Republican candidate, even if the views don't match up 100%).

5. Massive fundraising and campaign ground-game

2 is probably the most important, but you missed the 2nd most important one: First Female President.

People who want Warren are delusional if they think she would beat a top tier Republican, and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.


Sanders would have plenty of chances if 80+% of the electorate voted in the election, especially including the 18-30 crowd.

I know that I for one would vote for Sanders and probably wouldn't vote at all without Sanders.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-02 01:31:25
July 02 2015 01:28 GMT
#41472
On July 02 2015 09:10 Slaughter wrote:
Socialism seems to be a dirty word in the US .


not really. believe it or not, it's really not the 1950s anymore

On July 02 2015 10:06 cLutZ wrote:
and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.


LOL. How about this. If Sanders loses the general election, I have to write an essay on why America is the best country ever. If he wins, you have to write a book report on Capital, Vol 1

On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.


you mean by like, trying to start WWIII by pushing NATO into Putin's backyard? What planet do you guys live on. Clinton is dead meat
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
July 02 2015 01:31 GMT
#41473
On July 02 2015 10:13 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 10:06 cLutZ wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 05:30 whatisthisasheep wrote:
Trump is going to pull a reverse Al Franken.

Dems messed up not convincing Elisabeth Warren to run. She would have alot easier path to the presidency than Clinton.


Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.


There's a couple reasons why people feel this way:

1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.

2. Bill Clinton is still quite popular among Americans, and that could buoy her up. She is also very well connected with the Democratic party elites and key stakeholders.

3. Much more experience running national campaigns than Sanders (both from her own experience and her husbands)

4. She is more centrist in her views, which could appeal to a large group of voters (liberals voters would still vote for her over the Republican candidate, even if the views don't match up 100%).

5. Massive fundraising and campaign ground-game

2 is probably the most important, but you missed the 2nd most important one: First Female President.

People who want Warren are delusional if they think she would beat a top tier Republican, and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.


Sanders would have plenty of chances if 80+% of the electorate voted in the election, especially including the 18-30 crowd.

I know that I for one would vote for Sanders and probably wouldn't vote at all without Sanders.


80% turnout isn't realistic - voter turnout hasn't topped 60% since 1968.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
July 02 2015 01:31 GMT
#41474
On July 02 2015 10:31 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 10:13 IgnE wrote:
On July 02 2015 10:06 cLutZ wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:36 Bagration wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 02 2015 08:27 Bagration wrote:
[quote]

Warren is way to far to the left to be elected nationally IMO. I fear the same is the case with Sanders. I'd rather have Hillary convincingly beat the Republican candidate rather than have a close race between Sanders and the Republican. We don't need a Walker or Rubio or yet another Bush presidency.

Don't forget, the average American voter is very different from the average TL user :p


The people showing up in Wisconsin look like average American voters to me?


Those are average liberal voters in a relatively liberal state. Conservative voters won't show up to a Sanders rally the same way that liberal voters won't attend a Ted Cruz event.

Now Sanders would still carry the traditionally blue states (IE California, New England, etc.), but if he's too liberal for most Americans, he loses the battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Virginia, and suddenly we have President Bush the Third. That's my worry.

HIllary is an imperfect candidate, but she's centrist enough where I think she should easily beat the Republican candidates (none of whom seem particularly strong at this moment). The electoral map is in the Democrats' advantage - they just can't fuck it up by nominating someone that is too liberal.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind a Sanders presidency by any means. But I fear another Republican administration, with how the party has radicalized recently.


Well I was skeptical at first but Hillary has screwed up enough that I think the best way to ensure a republican has a chance is for Hillary to win the nomination.

Live stream BTW not sure other candidates are doing this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OewBDIwy-O4


Or if you're too hip for mainstream (self-coverage): The grass roots channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfSeYRwDyPc


I am not confident that anyone the Dems send out besides Hillary actually has a chance sadly.


In 3 months or less people will have the opposite opinion, wondering how in the world they thought she was a better option than him.


There's a couple reasons why people feel this way:

1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.

2. Bill Clinton is still quite popular among Americans, and that could buoy her up. She is also very well connected with the Democratic party elites and key stakeholders.

3. Much more experience running national campaigns than Sanders (both from her own experience and her husbands)

4. She is more centrist in her views, which could appeal to a large group of voters (liberals voters would still vote for her over the Republican candidate, even if the views don't match up 100%).

5. Massive fundraising and campaign ground-game

2 is probably the most important, but you missed the 2nd most important one: First Female President.

People who want Warren are delusional if they think she would beat a top tier Republican, and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.


Sanders would have plenty of chances if 80+% of the electorate voted in the election, especially including the 18-30 crowd.

I know that I for one would vote for Sanders and probably wouldn't vote at all without Sanders.


80% turnout isn't realistic - voter turnout hasn't topped 60% since 1968.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections


let's play undergrad statistics tutorial. N=?
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
July 02 2015 01:36 GMT
#41475
On July 02 2015 10:28 bookwyrm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 09:10 Slaughter wrote:
Socialism seems to be a dirty word in the US .


not really. believe it or not, it's really not the 1950s anymore

Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 10:06 cLutZ wrote:
and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.


LOL. How about this. If Sanders loses the general election, I have to write an essay on why America is the best country ever. If he wins, you have to write a book report on Capital, Vol 1

Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.


you mean by like, trying to start WWIII by pushing NATO into Putin's backyard? What planet do you guys live on. Clinton is dead meat


Wait now, you're assuming that Sanders will be participating in the general election. He has to win the Democratic nomination first.

Clinton has better foreign policy experience than Sanders. In fact, she has better foreign policy experience than anyone running for President right now. Notice I used the word "experience" rather than "record".
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24399 Posts
July 02 2015 01:39 GMT
#41476
On July 02 2015 10:36 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2015 10:28 bookwyrm wrote:
On July 02 2015 09:10 Slaughter wrote:
Socialism seems to be a dirty word in the US .


not really. believe it or not, it's really not the 1950s anymore

On July 02 2015 10:06 cLutZ wrote:
and people who want Sanders are even more delusional, because he would lose to even the likes of Lindsey Graham.


LOL. How about this. If Sanders loses the general election, I have to write an essay on why America is the best country ever. If he wins, you have to write a book report on Capital, Vol 1

On July 02 2015 09:14 Bagration wrote:
1. She has better foreign policy experience from being Secretary of State, executive experience from taking on issues as First Lady.


you mean by like, trying to start WWIII by pushing NATO into Putin's backyard? What planet do you guys live on. Clinton is dead meat


Wait now, you're assuming that Sanders will be participating in the general election. He has to win the Democratic nomination first.

Clinton has better foreign policy experience than Sanders. In fact, she has better foreign policy experience than anyone running for President right now. Notice I used the word "experience" rather than "record".


Let's just say there is a reason Hillary doesn't want to debate Sanders, it's not because she's a better candidate.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-02 01:41:07
July 02 2015 01:39 GMT
#41477
1) Yeah Sanders has this with both hands tied behind his back. He just sits there being awesome while everybody else slings bullets at each other. He emerges at the end unscathed because the man is fucking BULLETPROOF

2) So your argument here is that a clear record of fucking up catastrophically is a good qualification for continuing to be put in charge of the same thing, and that this is just sort of obvious to everyone

On NPR today there was a story about a stray cat in japan who was appointed station master of a rural trainstation. I would rather put a stray cat in charge of US foreign policy than hillary clinton
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
July 02 2015 01:43 GMT
#41478
It's funny that anyone here thinks there are substantive differences between Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton on issues that are directly impacted by the President. You are basically choosing which aesthetic you want for speeches and media relations when you choose between those two.
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
July 02 2015 01:45 GMT
#41479
On July 02 2015 10:39 bookwyrm wrote:
1) Yeah Sanders has this with both hands tied behind his back. He just sits there being awesome while everybody else slings bullets at each other. He emerges at the end unscathed because the man is fucking BULLETPROOF

2) So your argument here is that a clear record of fucking up catastrophically is a good qualification for continuing to be put in charge of the same thing, and that this is just sort of obvious to everyone

On NPR today there was a story about a stray cat in japan who was appointed station master of a rural trainstation. I would rather put a stray cat in charge of US foreign policy than hillary clinton


I'm afraid you're in for a disappointing election season my friend. No candidate is bulletproof.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
July 02 2015 02:00 GMT
#41480
On July 02 2015 08:30 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2015 13:51 ticklishmusic wrote:
On July 01 2015 04:54 GreenHorizons wrote:
On July 01 2015 04:38 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's really sad that Bobby Jindal is basically on the same level as Trump.


Except Trump is in 2nd, not 12th.


Well, he didn't tank the economy and education system of an entire state


Bobby Jindal is such an interesting character - the guy was appointed to a state cabinet position at the age of 24, and was the president of the Louisiana State University System at 28. That's insane.


I know his pedigree (as a New Orleanian), and that's precisely why its so sad that his administration has been a complete disaster. He's such a smart guy, yet he's lived up to almost none of his potential. He could have been the most influential politician from Louisiana since Huey P Long (who could have been president if only he hadn't been assassinated). He pawned it all away for cheap political points, and now he'll never be more than the Indian governor of a shithole state.
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