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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Introvert
United States5093 Posts
On February 25 2015 09:52 Stratos_speAr wrote: Shutting down the government isn't a reasonable stance. My entire point was that in this, it's Obama and the Democrats who would rather hold up all funding than avoid a shutdown. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On February 25 2015 09:56 Introvert wrote: My entire point was that in this, it's Obama and the Democrats who would rather hold up all funding than avoid a shutdown. The ~30% of people who believe that aren't going to win an election, would be my takeaway. | ||
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Introvert
United States5093 Posts
But it doesn't help that the leading Republicans are so terrible at making arguments that they can't point out it's the Democrats who are holding up funding. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On February 25 2015 10:23 Introvert wrote: Have there been any polls on this? But it doesn't help that the leading Republicans are so terrible at making arguments that they can't point out it's the Democrats who are holding up funding. I think after the first shutdown and the PR disaster that came from it, any subsequent "will the government shut down?" news articles are gonna make people think "for fucks sake, GOP, just stop". | ||
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Introvert
United States5093 Posts
On February 25 2015 10:28 Mohdoo wrote: I think after the first shutdown and the PR disaster that came from it, any subsequent "will the government shut down?" news articles are gonna make people think "for fucks sake, GOP, just stop". eh, maybe. We heard all the doomsday predictions, but those never amounted to anything. It's just so funny how the Republicans don't even fight back. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On February 25 2015 10:23 Introvert wrote: Have there been any polls on this? But it doesn't help that the leading Republicans are so terrible at making arguments that they can't point out it's the Democrats who are holding up funding. The survey finds 53% of Americans would blame the Republicans in Congress if the department must shut down, while 30% would blame President Barack Obama. Another 13% say both deserve the blame. Source | ||
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Introvert
United States5093 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On February 25 2015 11:06 Introvert wrote: ah, thanks. Proves how pathetic the GOP is. Their own fault for pulling the trigger first. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On February 25 2015 11:23 Gorsameth wrote: Their own fault for pulling the trigger first. I think I remember some of the GOP saying something along the lines of "We are ready to shut down the government over this" at some point in the recent past, so if you're going to straight up own it that way, you gotta own it when it happens. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On February 25 2015 11:06 Introvert wrote: ah, thanks. Proves how pathetic the GOP is. Well that, and the whole had they spent their time putting together a legislative alternative to the EO none of this would of been necessary. But instead they are still playing with themselves on the Keystone. Wasting everyone's time and money on something they don't even need to fight about. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On February 25 2015 10:35 Introvert wrote: eh, maybe. We heard all the doomsday predictions, but those never amounted to anything. It's just so funny how the Republicans don't even fight back. On February 25 2015 11:06 Introvert wrote: ah, thanks. Proves how pathetic the GOP is. In a sane world, the opposition has strong leadership that pounds the point home about the necessary and constitutional check on a power hungry executive. We're reaping the genetic line carried by Rockefeller/Dole/George Bush Sr., essentially a big and powerful government but "us" running it (with light handed regulations and a pro business outlook, of course!). I might as well blame the collective American civics education for not putting politician's feet to the fire. We essentially have the government we deserve--those that sought power got it, and now lord it over the country in the name of compassion, peace, and safety. The current crop in both parties largely likes amnesty and government-run healthcare. I see the Republicans caving on this issue and showing up in 2016 hearing their own campaign promises of repealing Obamacare and reversing executive amnesty thrown back in their faces from the voters. In contrast to caving, the enthusiasm over Walker is the thought that finally we'll rally behind a fighter. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On February 25 2015 14:29 Danglars wrote: I see the Republicans caving on this issue and showing up in 2016 hearing their own campaign promises of repealing Obamacare and reversing executive amnesty thrown back in their faces from the voters. In contrast to caving, the enthusiasm over Walker is the thought that finally we'll rally behind a fighter. I would argue Obamacare will be way too deeply rooted by then. I don't think republicans will make Obamacare an issue in 2016. Getting rid of it would be too problematic even at this point? 2016? No way. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On February 25 2015 09:52 Stratos_speAr wrote: Shutting down the government isn't a reasonable stance. You'll still have your State, County, and Municipalities intact! Still amazed at how righteous people are to have other people rule them and defend it with every fiber of being. Please dear neighbor, tell me how I should live, what I should buy, and how I should conduct commerce. We all live on one big tax-farm, and everyone seems to want more. To me, that isn't reasonable, but hey, humanity also threw Jesus to the Romans so what can I say... | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On February 25 2015 17:40 Shiragaku wrote: You are not seriously trying to imply that this shutdown is somehow a good opportunity for libertarian ideals, are you? This? No, because it's not a 'shutdown', it's a ruse to get concessions on their own ideological use for Government. I was talking about a real shutdown. We could do ourselves a great service by throwing the Potomac into the bin of history. So many think it is a great tool for whatever scheme real and perceived. Let's just take poverty - how successful have we been on that front? Oh, we got a centralized currency, a taxing regime that redistributes wealth from the politically distant to the politically connected (like any Government...it's pretty much it's MO), and we have massively corrupt and wealthy politicians because Boobus gave them their power and expected it to be used 'in their interests' (I can't stop laughing at the ridiculousness of this one honestly). Oh, the rest of the country is in economic turmoil, meanwhile the Potomac corridor has record prices and some of the highest wages and wealthiest areas in the country - of course, you get that when money is being funneled in from the rest of the country and little droplets coming back out. Bureaucracy takes huge sums of money for themselves and distributes cents on the thousands and boobus cheers this Third Rail on. As if your State couldn't fulfill the same function. Oh, but it's better. We think of ourselves so haughtily, that most of the Boobus are rabidly Nationalist and can't stand the idea that some person some thousands of miles away live or think differently than they do. In the name of Righteousness or Ideology, no matter - some reason will be conjured. No matter, the American Empire will fall in due time just like all the others before. Maybe then we can start some real progress. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
WASHINGTON — Despite a glimmer of hope on Tuesday, Congress fell right back into a stalemate with just two days to go before the Department of Homeland Security runs out of funding. The chances of a partial government shutdown on Friday at midnight grew as the Republican-led House and Senate remained divided on the way forward. Emerging from an hourlong meeting on Wednesday, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) refused to offer any support for a proposal by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) to break the logjam by holding separate votes on DHS funding and overturning President Barack Obama's executive actions on immigration. "I'm waiting for the Senate to act," he told reporters. "The House has done its job to fund the Department of Homeland Security and to stop the president's overreach on immigration. And we're waiting for the Senate to do their job." Boehner ducked five questions about the McConnell plan, saying the House won't decide what to do until the Senate acts. (He also refused to answer questions about whether embracing McConnell's plan would endanger his tenuous hold on the speakership, as some House conservatives have suggested to reporters.) That's a problem because Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said Tuesday that Democrats will filibuster even a clean DHS bill until Boehner promises to bring it up. That demand has incensed House Republicans. Source | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18494 Posts
As a foreigner I cannot help but laugh at these utterly ridiculous political moves that continuously happen in the greatest democracy of the world. This type of thing sounds more like what I'd expect from two toddlers in kindergarten squabbling over whose turn it is to play in the sand box than from some of the most powerful politicians in one of the largest countries of the world. | ||
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always_winter
United States195 Posts
A great man once warned the American people of the divisive tendencies of political parties, of the tendency toward shifting despotism in which one party dominates another until no longer in power, upon which it is usurped by its opponent with a fiery retribution. Today we are disgraced by politicians who, as a platform for election and a pre-requisite for candidacy, actually vow to reject any and all legislative proposals brought by the opposing party. | ||
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farvacola
United States18876 Posts
On February 26 2015 04:39 always_winter wrote: Two toddlers in kindergarten would be an improvement from the status-quo in Washington. Children have a propensity toward compassion and understanding, the rational underpinnings of compromise which seem to elude some of the most well-informed and well-funded politicians on Capitol Hill. A great man once warned the American people of the divisive tendencies of political parties, of the tendency toward shifting despotism in which one party dominates another until no longer in power, upon which it is usurped by its opponent with a fiery retribution. Today we are disgraced by politicians who, as a platform for election and a pre-requisite for candidacy, actually vow to reject any and all legislative proposals brought by the opposing party. Conscription of kindergartners aside, what would your solution be? | ||
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