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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On February 26 2015 07:28 puerk wrote: For instance is the evolution of the FDP known to the general public in the US? Turn back while you still can, innocent traveler! This thread will frighten you. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11749 Posts
After all, there is a lot of things one could know about in the world, probably a few orders of magnitude more than any person can learn in their lifetime, and thus it makes sense to select for the stuff that is actually of importance for you. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On February 26 2015 09:34 DannyJ wrote: Turn back while you still can, innocent traveler! This thread will frighten you. don't worry i read this whole thread (skiping only a couple pages here and there), and its predecessor (general election) since i have been lurking on tl for a couple of years now well, simberto, you are of course right in your argument, but i was not demanding that the US population should know the german system (i am also very uninformed about mexico  ), i was rather asking if knowledge about the system would have an impact on advocating different voting systems, and how much knowledge is actually there.... especially regarding the low approval rating and the feeling that there is no alternative to vote on (without wasting the vote) | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
the influence of the teaparty on the republican policies is obviously a bad thing, but at least its something different than the eternal celebration of the status quo in our party system. like i said, european posters in this thread quickly criticize the usa over all kinds of issues (and they should), but are willingful ignorant for similar shit happening in their own countries. | ||
KwarK
United States43584 Posts
Don't go to the US. If you do, go illegally. Shit will be just as hard for you but you'll save a lot of money and effort. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On February 26 2015 09:34 Stratos_speAr wrote: Americans have absolutely zero fucking clue about the political system of any country outside of their own, let alone a non-English-speaking one. There are a lot of Americans that genuinely believe that this country is the only free and democratic country in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if a poll of the American public showed that at least 40% thought that the Queen of England actually held sole political power and ran the country like it was still the Middle Ages. I'm shocked whenever Americans think the Queen actually has political power in Canada. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On February 26 2015 10:53 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'm shocked whenever Americans think the Queen actually has political power in Canada. Her face is on your money, isn't it? | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On February 26 2015 10:10 puerk wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2015 09:34 DannyJ wrote: Turn back while you still can, innocent traveler! This thread will frighten you. don't worry i read this whole thread (skiping only a couple pages here and there), and its predecessor (general election) since i have been lurking on tl for a couple of years now well, simberto, you are of course right in your argument, but i was not demanding that the US population should know the german system (i am also very uninformed about mexico ), i was rather asking if knowledge about the system would have an impact on advocating different voting systems, and how much knowledge is actually there.... especially regarding the low approval rating and the feeling that there is no alternative to vote on (without wasting the vote)No. American culture is quite arrogant. "Un-American" is a label that very successfully destroys anything that it touches, and so there's no way in hell the American political culture would admit that it is doing something wrong, let alone accept the idea that another country does it better. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
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Falling
Canada11418 Posts
On February 26 2015 10:26 Nyxisto wrote: Just from a standpoint of participation I actually feel like the American system is a little more permeable than multi-party systems. Some 5% or 8% party in Germany has exactly nothing to say even if they're coalition partner. The tea party seems to have a lot more influence on Republican policies with their grassroots stuff. I suppose it really depends on how the multi-party system works. In Canada, it's true that the third parties have little to say in the running of government, especially with a majority government. However, if third parties starting grabbing up significant portions of the votes, it pushes mainstream parties to adopt enough rebranded policies from the third party to steal the third party's thunder. So while the third party has difficulty forming government, they are able to shift politics towards their viewpoint. Things like public healthcare came through third parties and forced mainstream parties to adopt public healthcare else Tommy Douglas would win too much of their vote. In addition, Canada's strong regionalism has resulted in overthrowing mainstream parties in entire regions by brand new parties. The regional parties don't form government, but they can force the rest of Canada to take notice of that region's grumbling. | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On February 26 2015 11:35 Stratos_speAr wrote: No. American culture is quite arrogant. "Un-American" is a label that very successfully destroys anything that it touches, and so there's no way in hell the American political culture would admit that it is doing something wrong, let alone accept the idea that another country does it better. To be fair, most of this thread doesn't think anything is wrong with "American political culture". Just the Republican Party. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23649 Posts
On February 26 2015 13:16 coverpunch wrote: To be fair, most of this thread doesn't think anything is wrong with "American political culture". Just the Republican Party. I don't think you could find one person in the thread that would say there isn't anything wrong with both parties? Two poll questions that give us a glimpse into the problem though: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QTI5sfR.png) Any successful tea party candidate is going to have to deny both climate change and evolution. As you can see with Tea Party favorites. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/daVuH8a.png) Which means they wont have a shot at the general. GWB tidbit: + Show Spoiler + Something else a bit mysterious revealed in the poll is GWB has a freakishly high approval rating among republicans despite presiding over the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor, entering into what is almost universally believed to be one of America's dumbest wars (Iraq), the worst economic disaster since The Great Depression, and some of the most irresponsible budgets in recent history. It's not that there are crazies in both parties, that's a given. The issue with republicans is that some of the most insane stuff isn't getting shot down like it should within their own party. Source | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On February 26 2015 17:05 Micro_Jackson wrote: On that topic i have a question: When somebody, politician, foxnews guy... says "America is the greatest country on earth" is he really taken seriusly? I mean idiots are everywhere but does the average, basic educated U.S. citicen really believe that the usa are "better" then (all) other countries? You have to be a little careful, because I think you're using better in a way that implies Americans think they're superior than other people, or inversely, that Americans think other people are inferior. Which I don't think is the case at all and not what people mean when they call America the greatest country on Earth. But a poll: ![[image loading]](http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/07/FT_Greatest_Country.png) | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On February 26 2015 17:05 Micro_Jackson wrote: On that topic i have a question: When somebody, politician, foxnews guy... says "America is the greatest country on earth" is he really taken seriusly? I mean idiots are everywhere but does the average, basic educated U.S. citicen really believe that the usa are "better" then (all) other countries? The color red is the greatest color on Earth. Edit: at bit more seriously its just a cultural thing. It's common to say the thing you belong to is the greatest. So yeah it's 'serious', the same as telling your sweetie pie she's the greatest. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23649 Posts
On February 26 2015 17:05 Micro_Jackson wrote: On that topic i have a question: When somebody, politician, foxnews guy... says "America is the greatest country on earth" is he really taken seriusly? I mean idiots are everywhere but does the average, basic educated U.S. citicen really believe that the usa are "better" then (all) other countries? Despite what some are saying, yes, some Americans do think that the US is the best at everything (that matters). The one amendment to that would be that people might say other countries had better leaders. Jindal and Isa were just on Hannity tonight saying Obama doesn't talk about how #1 America is enough. It was actually kind of hilarious because at one point Jindal (potential republican presidential nominee candidate) actually said "I wish there was a compilation video of Obama saying what a great country America is" after several shows ran exactly that (touching on the disconnect from reality). | ||
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On February 26 2015 17:20 coverpunch wrote: You have to be a little careful, because I think you're using better in a way that implies Americans think they're superior than other people, or inversely, that Americans think other people are inferior. Which I don't think is the case at all and not what people mean when they call America the greatest country on Earth. But a poll: Yea but what is hard to understand for me is what the term "greatest" really means for them. I would understand it if it would be (selective) argument based like if i am talking to someone from Sweden and he says "Sweden is the greatest country on earth because we have the lowest criminal rate, the highst education standards and have the most awesome polititians" i would get it why he is saying that even if he focuses on facts he likes. For the US the image i always have in my head is the opening scene from The Newsroom but this has to be a cliché isnt it? | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On February 26 2015 19:24 Micro_Jackson wrote: Yea but what is hard to understand for me is what the term "greatest" really means for them. I would understand it if it would be (selective) argument based like if i am talking to someone from Sweden and he says "Sweden is the greatest country on earth because we have the lowest criminal rate, the highst education standards and have the most awesome polititians" i would get it why he is saying that even if he focuses on facts he likes. For the US the image i always have in my head is the opening scene from The Newsroom but this has to be a cliché isnt it? I think the typical image is basically in the vein of referring to America as the world's sole superpower or describing the president as the most powerful man in the world. But you have this strange dichotomy where the United States clearly boasts the most powerful military in the world but it also sincerely thinks of itself as a peace-loving nation that is best positioned and most capable of bringing liberty and prosperity to all people. Although it is clearly changing from the polls that Americans see themselves living in a world of Great Powers again rather than a superpower without peers (it would be interesting to know who Americans think the other Great Powers are). Even the Newsroom's initial rant acknowledges this as a historical truth about America that could be restored. The image is more an America that has compromised itself and lost its way rather than permanently weakened itself as a result. | ||
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