US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1603

On January 30 2015 05:50 Nyxisto wrote:
Maybe freedom of speech wasn't the right term, but the culture behind the American interpretation of it. Without any form of compulsory education or curriculum you'll end up with a lot of kids growing up in an environment where people can teach them nonsense all day and when they're adults they'll do the same.

On January 30 2015 07:13 Introvert wrote:
The anti-vaccine stuff generally doesn't fit with the rest of the "anti-science" that everyone here loves to talk about. It's actually very prominent among wealthier types, it appears. It's not "OMG science is bad," but these people think they are actually doing something good for their children. In Los Angeles, for example, there are more private school exemptions than public school ones. It's kind of all over the place.

So I haven't the foggiest idea how religion or free speech made its way in here. Of everyone I know, there is only one religious person who doesn't vaccinate their kids.

Finally, some Amish may object to vaccinations on religious grounds, though Huntington states that this is a less likely objection than concerns over safety. She notes that Amish who acquire religious exemptions for vaccinations may cite Romans 12:2, “Be not conformed to this world”, as one justification for abstaining. Amish may argue that putting faith in immunizations is like placing faith in man above God, and that vaccination is akin to participating in insurance programs, which Amish typically oppose (“Health Issues”, Huntington, p 186).

What’s unique about this year's outbreak is that the CDC has finally admitted the spread of this “eliminated” disease is based on religious communities’ philosophical aversion to vaccines and reliance on divine healing through the Word of God. According to the report, 91 percent of the reported cases were in people who were unvaccinated, or didn’t know their vaccination status, and “of those who were unvaccinated, 79 percent had philosophical objections to vaccination.”

These cases began in religious communities, but eventually spread out of them and infected infants who couldn't legally be vaccinated yet. This August, epidemiologists in Texas began investigating the Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark, Texas. The megachurch, which believes in faith healing, had become an open breeding ground for measles after a member of the congregation returned from Indonesia and infected 21 people in and around Newark. It was widely reported that Terri Pearsons, the church’s senior pastor, had encouraged her followers to avoid vaccinations at all costs. The church has defensively denied this claim, which contradicts Pearsons’s continued reservations about vaccines.

National data do not distinguish between exemption types, said Daniel A. Salmon, a vaccination expert at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health. But in Massachusetts, which he has studied and which does not offer philosophical exemptions, religious exemptions are on the rise. The American Medical Association opposes both types, saying they increase the risk of epidemics.

In many states, just what constitutes ''religious exemption'' is hazy. A study in The American Journal of Public Health in 2000 showed that only 21 of the 47 states had ever denied one. ''A lot of states call their exemptions religious, but anyone who wants it, gets it,'' Mr. Salmon said.

The issue has never come before the Supreme Court, but state laws that have listed exempt faiths -- Christian Science, for example -- have been struck down in courts on the basis of the First Amendment.

Religious exemptions do have public health consequences. The last two American polio outbreaks were in Amish and Mennonite communities in 1979 and in a Christian Science school in Connecticut in 1972. Measles killed 3 students of 125 infected in a Christian Science school in 1985, and a similar-size outbreak among the Amish in 1987 and 1988 killed 2 people. In 1991, 890 cases of rubella, leading to more than a dozen deformed children, hit Amish areas.

On January 30 2015 04:51 oneofthem wrote:

what? this is not about speech but about beliefs and behavior.

On January 30 2015 05:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:


Americans are a special kind of stupid.

Our culture is extremely anti-intellectual and we have (relatively) huge parts of our population that are anti-science, including anti-climate change science (~50%), anti-evolution (~50%), anti-vaccination (~5-10%), anti-nutritional science ("fad diets", pretty big percentage of the population) etc. Of course, this is despite the fact that each of these issues has a pretty resounding scientific consensus.



Education doesn't always mean intelligence (although it is a good indicator) and the skepticism of vaccines isn't "healthy". It's paranoid and absurd.

On January 30 2015 08:06 Introvert wrote:
Where are the CDC stats, I can't find them. The article would have done well to link it.

I actually do think that religion as an excuse is the primary source. The whole NYT article was about that. You had a few people who opposed it for religious reasons providing an out for a whole bunch of other people.

But come on, everyone knows the primary objection involves autism or susceptibility, not God's Will.

On my phone so forgive thr formatting, but more links seem to back up what i said. Less about religion- most wgo refuse are wealthy upper class people who self educate.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/05/08/who-doesnt-vaccinate/#.VMq7iHqtvqB
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa0806477#article

Can I have the CDC source plz?

You are letting your personal assumptions leak in again. "There are some religious people who oppose, so that must be a major source!"

On January 30 2015 08:37 Falling wrote:
Well the Amish are a rather extreme example in pretty much any aspect.

Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark, Texas. The megachurch, which believes in faith healing, had become an open breeding ground for measles after a member of the congregation returned from Indonesia and infected 21 people in and around Newark. It was widely reported that Terri Pearsons, the church’s senior pastor, had encouraged her followers to avoid vaccinations at all costs. The church has defensively denied this claim, which contradicts Pearsons’s continued reservations about vaccines.

As part of its 2015 Broadband Progress Report, the Federal Communications Commission has voted to change the definition of broadband by raising the minimum download speeds needed from 4Mbps to 25Mbps, and the minimum upload speed from 1Mbps to 3Mbps, which effectively triples the number of US households without broadband access. Currently, 6.3 percent of US households don’t have access to broadband under the previous 4Mpbs/1Mbps threshold, while another 13.1 percent don't have access to broadband under the new 25Mbps downstream threshold.

FCC Commissioner Tom Wheeler was vehement in his support for the new broadband standard. "When 80 percent of Americans can access 25-3, that's a standard. We have a problem that 20 percent can't. We have a responsibility to that 20 percent," Commissioner Wheeler said.

"We are never satisfied with the status quo. We want better. We continue to push the limit, and that is notable when it comes to technology," FCC Commissioner Mignon Clyburn said. "As consumers adopt and demand more from their platforms and devices, the need for broadband will increase, requiring robust networks to be in place in order to keep up. What is crystal clear to me is that the broadband speeds of yesteryear are woefully inadequate today and beyond."

FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel wants to increase the minimum broadband standards far past the new 25Mbps download threshold, up to 100Mbps. "We invented the internet. We can do audacious things if we set big goals, and I think our new threshold, frankly, should be 100Mbps. I think anything short of that shortchanges our children, our future, and our new digital economy," Commissioner Rosenworcel said.

Taking his argument against changing the broadband standard into deep space, FCC Commissioner Michael O'Rielly said "the report notes that 4K TV requires 25Mbps, but 4K TV is still relatively new and is not expected to be widely adopted for years to come. While the statute directs us to look at advanced capability, this stretches the concept to an untenable extreme. Some people, for example, believe probably incorrectly that we are on a path to interplanetary teleportation. Should we include the estimated bandwidth for that as well?"

Changing the national broadband standards to 25Mbps down and 3Mbps up is a bold move for the FCC, which has faced opposition from cable providers which are staunchly against this measure, as it essentially removed DSL services from the broadband discussion. While cable and fiber optic services can easily meet the new standards, DSL — which is delivered over telephone lines — generally never reach the new download threshold.

"When 80 percent of Americans can access 25-3, that's a standard. We have a problem that 20 percent can't. We have a responsibility to that 20 percent,"

On January 30 2015 09:15 Falling wrote:
Sure, and there's a legitimate critique to be made within the Word-Faith branch of Christianity- segments within have also irresponsibly forgone medical treatment. Christian Science also should also have similar criticiques levelled against it. But outside those groups, I'm not sure the issue is as widespread as all that. Maybe it is in the States within the church population, but here it seems more the alternative medicine crowd- naturalpaths and suspicions of big pharma and that sort of thing that moves people into the non-vaccine camp.

On January 30 2015 09:31 Danglars wrote:

This is the FCC commissioner declaring problems with budget 10-1 and 3-1 etc (which is very commonly priced in the 15$/mo range and quite affordable)? Since when is this a political action group instead of a group simply enforcing passed laws. It seems every news story is now the administration state on steroids, the marching beat being that congressional inaction is excuse for the seizure of power.

These guys should sets the new minimum broadcast standards to be 1GB/s, just to show how profoundly silly this whole enterprise has become.

He's got all the usual tripe, excepting the line about "In a rich country like ours ... in a technologically advanced country like ours ... we shouldn't have to see people in poverty choosing between 25mbps internet and cable tv!!!"

On January 30 2015 06:15 Stratos_speAr wrote:


Another huge problem is that children are generally seen as property in our society. The general line for any topic is, "They're MY kids and I can do whatever I want with them!" This comes up with education (home schooling), healthcare (vaccinations), and many other situations. Parents see children as their property to mold into whatever they wish and no one sees children as actually having the right to quality healthcare, education, etc. The only time children have rights that protect them from their parents' decisions are (supposedly) when they're still a fetus and haven't been born yet. "Crossed that barrier and are now an autonomous human being? Nope! You don't get any guarantee of quality education or healthcare because you're nothing but the property of your parents!"