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On November 16 2012 21:44 bahunto28 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 21:32 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:25 nucleo wrote:On November 16 2012 21:22 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:15 nucleo wrote:
I guess he is just misinformed about the hundred of rockets fired at Israel a few weeks prior and up to that point.
No i am not, and i deplore the actions and the tragedy, but to have me think that this is somehow a single incident and not related directly to the historic event of the last 50 years is absurd. so would would know that this escalation did not occur due to the assassination. To your statement i would say, we "know" very little about this, but the assassination of him could and prolly be interpreted very differently in Israel and Palestine respectively, if Ahmed al-Jabari is seen as a political figure in Hamas, and some say he is, this could most defindently escalate this. this is unecessary quibbling over semantics. hamas can't appear to step back from al-Jabari assination without some kind of response even though it is known they will get spanked. something to do with "honour". they also can't be seen as less militant than the other groups (salafists, islamic jihad, ..) in gaza. israel had to respond as the situation in the south was untenable. it's deterrance had eroded. the end game will be as it always was. eventually a "ceasefire" will be agreed to after and hamas will restock for the next round. my question, why is Israel still providing electricity and gas to gaza? just hermatically seal it off and let egypt take over from the shared gaza-egypt border.
My understanding is that Israel does not want to hand over gaza to egypt for several reasons.
Egypt is not only sympathetic to gaza's population but also to Hamas
Israel fears that Egypt would allow more armaments into gaza that could strike Israel
Gaza was under Egypt's control 1948-1967, but after the war Israel took Gaza, they would not want to simply give it back to Egypt
1973 Egypt launches surprise attack against Israel
After 1973 Egypt has better relations with west (mainly US) up until Mubarak is ousted in the "arab spring"
Now - democratically elected government in Egypt by the people of Egypt who are pro for: Freedom of gaza people, and Hamas rule.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211166273719642.html
That about sums it up?
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On November 16 2012 22:30 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:26 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. When you take the US media for anything but the grain of salt, it's you who needs an evaluation  US Media is so biased it makes non-independent game journalism look amazingly unbiased. On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv You know for a fact he was talking about before the assassination because it seems like your speculating, especially since the News is covering the "news" right now, meaning probably the assassination, or should be. Well if he posts the source we can find out who is right then.
I doubt I can provide you a source in the form of a video or transcript at the moment. It was something I saw on television literally less than ten minutes before I posted that.
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On November 16 2012 22:30 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv You'd know more about it than me, but wasn't there something about some kid, and then some tunnels, and a jeep? I thought there was a larger chain of events leading up to the rockets and assassination.
There was a tunnel the exploded under a jeep about 2weeks ago and several soldiers getting injured 1 week ago. However the response to that was destruction of a few launch sites and 1 rocket squad. It could be those also had a effect on this but the main one seems to be the huge influx in rocket attacks. If you were to ask me what led to that i wouldnt know.
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On November 16 2012 22:30 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:26 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. When you take the US media for anything but the grain of salt, it's you who needs an evaluation US Media is so biased it makes non-independent game journalism look amazingly unbiased. On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv You know for a fact he was talking about before the assassination because it seems like your speculating, especially since the News is covering the "news" right now, meaning probably the assassination, or should be. Well if he posts the source we can find out who is right then.
I completely agree. It's just... How "news" operates is on current events, so if they're asking "what caused the outrage" they might as well look at the most common event like the bombing of a military leader which resulted in injured civilians and I believe 10 killed, 2 children. I just remember that's how news operates on a usual basis, can't really tell though is that not how Israel operates its news? On current events?
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On November 16 2012 22:33 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:30 Saryph wrote:On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv You'd know more about it than me, but wasn't there something about some kid, and then some tunnels, and a jeep? I thought there was a larger chain of events leading up to the rockets and assassination. There was a tunnel the exploded under a jeep about 2weeks ago and several soldiers getting injured 1 week ago. However the response to that was destruction of a few launch sites and 1 rocket squad. It could be those also had a effect on this but the main one seems to be the huge influx in rocket attacks. If you were to ask me what led to that i wouldnt know.
so you didnt notice the rise in rockets during the past two weeks? :/
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On November 16 2012 22:33 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 21:44 bahunto28 wrote:On November 16 2012 21:32 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:25 nucleo wrote:On November 16 2012 21:22 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:15 nucleo wrote:
I guess he is just misinformed about the hundred of rockets fired at Israel a few weeks prior and up to that point.
No i am not, and i deplore the actions and the tragedy, but to have me think that this is somehow a single incident and not related directly to the historic event of the last 50 years is absurd. so would would know that this escalation did not occur due to the assassination. To your statement i would say, we "know" very little about this, but the assassination of him could and prolly be interpreted very differently in Israel and Palestine respectively, if Ahmed al-Jabari is seen as a political figure in Hamas, and some say he is, this could most defindently escalate this. this is unecessary quibbling over semantics. hamas can't appear to step back from al-Jabari assination without some kind of response even though it is known they will get spanked. something to do with "honour". they also can't be seen as less militant than the other groups (salafists, islamic jihad, ..) in gaza. israel had to respond as the situation in the south was untenable. it's deterrance had eroded. the end game will be as it always was. eventually a "ceasefire" will be agreed to after and hamas will restock for the next round. my question, why is Israel still providing electricity and gas to gaza? just hermatically seal it off and let egypt take over from the shared gaza-egypt border. My understanding is that Israel does not want to hand over gaza to egypt for several reasons. Egypt is not only sympathetic to gaza's population but also to Hamas Israel fears that Egypt would allow more armaments into gaza that could strike Israel Gaza was under Egypt's control 1948-1967, but after the war Israel took Gaza, they would not want to simply give it back to Egypt 1973 Egypt launches surprise attack against Israel After 1973 Egypt has better relations with west (mainly US) up until Mubarak is ousted in the "arab spring" Now - democratically elected government in Egypt by the people of Egypt who are pro for: Freedom of gaza people, and Hamas rule. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211166273719642.htmlThat about sums it up?
Very wrong actually, Under Mubarak Egypt didnt want Gaza in the least.
As it is armaments flow freely now but if Egypt were to "open the border" as it were it would need to take responsibility for both the population and to prevent terror. Right now gaza is "free" in the sense that they have all of the territory as the contested areas are in the west bank.
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On November 16 2012 22:35 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:30 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:26 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. When you take the US media for anything but the grain of salt, it's you who needs an evaluation US Media is so biased it makes non-independent game journalism look amazingly unbiased. On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv You know for a fact he was talking about before the assassination because it seems like your speculating, especially since the News is covering the "news" right now, meaning probably the assassination, or should be. Well if he posts the source we can find out who is right then. I completely agree. It's just... How "news" operates is on current events, so if they're asking "what caused the outrage" they might as well look at the most common event like the bombing of a military leader which resulted in injured civilians and I believe 10 killed, 2 children. I just remember that's how news operates on a usual basis, can't really tell though is that not how Israel operates its news? On current events?
The civilians who died got killed in the bombing of weapon depots not during the assassination. And yes the news are very much current events.
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On November 16 2012 22:36 nucleo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:33 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:30 Saryph wrote:On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv You'd know more about it than me, but wasn't there something about some kid, and then some tunnels, and a jeep? I thought there was a larger chain of events leading up to the rockets and assassination. There was a tunnel the exploded under a jeep about 2weeks ago and several soldiers getting injured 1 week ago. However the response to that was destruction of a few launch sites and 1 rocket squad. It could be those also had a effect on this but the main one seems to be the huge influx in rocket attacks. If you were to ask me what led to that i wouldnt know. so you didnt notice the rise in rockets during the past two weeks? :/
I did, however this is far from the first time it has happened so i cant really say that would be a main cause.
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On November 16 2012 22:37 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:33 Mo0Rauder wrote:On November 16 2012 21:44 bahunto28 wrote:On November 16 2012 21:32 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:25 nucleo wrote:On November 16 2012 21:22 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:15 nucleo wrote:
I guess he is just misinformed about the hundred of rockets fired at Israel a few weeks prior and up to that point.
No i am not, and i deplore the actions and the tragedy, but to have me think that this is somehow a single incident and not related directly to the historic event of the last 50 years is absurd. so would would know that this escalation did not occur due to the assassination. To your statement i would say, we "know" very little about this, but the assassination of him could and prolly be interpreted very differently in Israel and Palestine respectively, if Ahmed al-Jabari is seen as a political figure in Hamas, and some say he is, this could most defindently escalate this. this is unecessary quibbling over semantics. hamas can't appear to step back from al-Jabari assination without some kind of response even though it is known they will get spanked. something to do with "honour". they also can't be seen as less militant than the other groups (salafists, islamic jihad, ..) in gaza. israel had to respond as the situation in the south was untenable. it's deterrance had eroded. the end game will be as it always was. eventually a "ceasefire" will be agreed to after and hamas will restock for the next round. my question, why is Israel still providing electricity and gas to gaza? just hermatically seal it off and let egypt take over from the shared gaza-egypt border. My understanding is that Israel does not want to hand over gaza to egypt for several reasons. Egypt is not only sympathetic to gaza's population but also to Hamas Israel fears that Egypt would allow more armaments into gaza that could strike Israel Gaza was under Egypt's control 1948-1967, but after the war Israel took Gaza, they would not want to simply give it back to Egypt 1973 Egypt launches surprise attack against Israel After 1973 Egypt has better relations with west (mainly US) up until Mubarak is ousted in the "arab spring" Now - democratically elected government in Egypt by the people of Egypt who are pro for: Freedom of gaza people, and Hamas rule. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211166273719642.htmlThat about sums it up? Very wrong actually, Under Mubarak Egypt didnt want Gaza in the least. As it is armaments flow freely now but if Egypt were to "open the border" as it were it would need to take responsibility for both the population and to prevent terror. Right now gaza is "free" in the sense that they have all of the territory as the contested areas are in the west bank.
That is what I meant, that Mubarak did NOT want gaza. Partly because US policy dictated that he would not be openly anti-Israel. But also I presume his government turned a blind eye to most arms being sent to gaza regardless. The difference now is that Mubarak is gone, and Egypt has a democratically elected government. The majority of people in Egypt are against the occupation and the settlement expansion, and the people of Egypt are PRO-Hamas. That is what is different now.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying before.
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On November 16 2012 22:43 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:37 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:33 Mo0Rauder wrote:On November 16 2012 21:44 bahunto28 wrote:On November 16 2012 21:32 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:25 nucleo wrote:On November 16 2012 21:22 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:15 nucleo wrote:
I guess he is just misinformed about the hundred of rockets fired at Israel a few weeks prior and up to that point.
No i am not, and i deplore the actions and the tragedy, but to have me think that this is somehow a single incident and not related directly to the historic event of the last 50 years is absurd. so would would know that this escalation did not occur due to the assassination. To your statement i would say, we "know" very little about this, but the assassination of him could and prolly be interpreted very differently in Israel and Palestine respectively, if Ahmed al-Jabari is seen as a political figure in Hamas, and some say he is, this could most defindently escalate this. this is unecessary quibbling over semantics. hamas can't appear to step back from al-Jabari assination without some kind of response even though it is known they will get spanked. something to do with "honour". they also can't be seen as less militant than the other groups (salafists, islamic jihad, ..) in gaza. israel had to respond as the situation in the south was untenable. it's deterrance had eroded. the end game will be as it always was. eventually a "ceasefire" will be agreed to after and hamas will restock for the next round. my question, why is Israel still providing electricity and gas to gaza? just hermatically seal it off and let egypt take over from the shared gaza-egypt border. My understanding is that Israel does not want to hand over gaza to egypt for several reasons. Egypt is not only sympathetic to gaza's population but also to Hamas Israel fears that Egypt would allow more armaments into gaza that could strike Israel Gaza was under Egypt's control 1948-1967, but after the war Israel took Gaza, they would not want to simply give it back to Egypt 1973 Egypt launches surprise attack against Israel After 1973 Egypt has better relations with west (mainly US) up until Mubarak is ousted in the "arab spring" Now - democratically elected government in Egypt by the people of Egypt who are pro for: Freedom of gaza people, and Hamas rule. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211166273719642.htmlThat about sums it up? Very wrong actually, Under Mubarak Egypt didnt want Gaza in the least. As it is armaments flow freely now but if Egypt were to "open the border" as it were it would need to take responsibility for both the population and to prevent terror. Right now gaza is "free" in the sense that they have all of the territory as the contested areas are in the west bank. That is what I meant, that Mubarak did NOT want gaza. Partly because US policy dictated that he would not be openly anti-Israel. But also I presume his government turned a blind eye to most arms being sent to gaza regardless. The difference now is that Mubarak is gone, and Egypt has a democratically elected government. The majority of people in Egypt are against the occupation and the settlement expansion, and the people of Egypt are PRO-Hamas. That is what is different now.
When i said you were wrong i meant about handing Gaza to Egypt, we wouldn't mind it in the least its the Egyptians and Gazens who dont want it,
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On November 16 2012 22:42 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:36 nucleo wrote:On November 16 2012 22:33 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:30 Saryph wrote:On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv You'd know more about it than me, but wasn't there something about some kid, and then some tunnels, and a jeep? I thought there was a larger chain of events leading up to the rockets and assassination. There was a tunnel the exploded under a jeep about 2weeks ago and several soldiers getting injured 1 week ago. However the response to that was destruction of a few launch sites and 1 rocket squad. It could be those also had a effect on this but the main one seems to be the huge influx in rocket attacks. If you were to ask me what led to that i wouldnt know. so you didnt notice the rise in rockets during the past two weeks? :/ I did, however this is far from the first time it has happened so i cant really say that would be a main cause.
well, from friends of mine in that southern area i know they felt it to be much different this time.
but i can agree. like i said, a snowball running down hill, you cant really point at the place it got bigger.
all you know is that it will end in a clusterfuck :/
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On November 16 2012 22:47 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:43 Mo0Rauder wrote:On November 16 2012 22:37 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:33 Mo0Rauder wrote:On November 16 2012 21:44 bahunto28 wrote:On November 16 2012 21:32 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:25 nucleo wrote:On November 16 2012 21:22 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:15 nucleo wrote:
I guess he is just misinformed about the hundred of rockets fired at Israel a few weeks prior and up to that point.
No i am not, and i deplore the actions and the tragedy, but to have me think that this is somehow a single incident and not related directly to the historic event of the last 50 years is absurd. so would would know that this escalation did not occur due to the assassination. To your statement i would say, we "know" very little about this, but the assassination of him could and prolly be interpreted very differently in Israel and Palestine respectively, if Ahmed al-Jabari is seen as a political figure in Hamas, and some say he is, this could most defindently escalate this. this is unecessary quibbling over semantics. hamas can't appear to step back from al-Jabari assination without some kind of response even though it is known they will get spanked. something to do with "honour". they also can't be seen as less militant than the other groups (salafists, islamic jihad, ..) in gaza. israel had to respond as the situation in the south was untenable. it's deterrance had eroded. the end game will be as it always was. eventually a "ceasefire" will be agreed to after and hamas will restock for the next round. my question, why is Israel still providing electricity and gas to gaza? just hermatically seal it off and let egypt take over from the shared gaza-egypt border. My understanding is that Israel does not want to hand over gaza to egypt for several reasons. Egypt is not only sympathetic to gaza's population but also to Hamas Israel fears that Egypt would allow more armaments into gaza that could strike Israel Gaza was under Egypt's control 1948-1967, but after the war Israel took Gaza, they would not want to simply give it back to Egypt 1973 Egypt launches surprise attack against Israel After 1973 Egypt has better relations with west (mainly US) up until Mubarak is ousted in the "arab spring" Now - democratically elected government in Egypt by the people of Egypt who are pro for: Freedom of gaza people, and Hamas rule. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211166273719642.htmlThat about sums it up? Very wrong actually, Under Mubarak Egypt didnt want Gaza in the least. As it is armaments flow freely now but if Egypt were to "open the border" as it were it would need to take responsibility for both the population and to prevent terror. Right now gaza is "free" in the sense that they have all of the territory as the contested areas are in the west bank. That is what I meant, that Mubarak did NOT want gaza. Partly because US policy dictated that he would not be openly anti-Israel. But also I presume his government turned a blind eye to most arms being sent to gaza regardless. The difference now is that Mubarak is gone, and Egypt has a democratically elected government. The majority of people in Egypt are against the occupation and the settlement expansion, and the people of Egypt are PRO-Hamas. That is what is different now. When i said you were wrong i meant about handing Gaza to Egypt, we wouldn't mind it in the least its the Egyptians and Gazens who dont want it,
I understand now then, that is much more clear. However I believe there are many things the people of Gaza don't want, and that is to be ruled by anyone but themselves. Egypt probably doesn't want Gaza for many reasons, the mass exodus of refugees would not be something any country would want, and also to provide for gaza a place with no real economy, education, power, medical, ect, would be very exspensive. Who pays for that then? The Egyptian people, so yes there are many reasons why Gaza and Egypt don't want to be in bed together.
I think we agree then, no?
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On November 16 2012 22:52 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:47 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:43 Mo0Rauder wrote:On November 16 2012 22:37 Goozen wrote:On November 16 2012 22:33 Mo0Rauder wrote:On November 16 2012 21:44 bahunto28 wrote:On November 16 2012 21:32 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:25 nucleo wrote:On November 16 2012 21:22 Megelrov wrote:On November 16 2012 21:15 nucleo wrote:
I guess he is just misinformed about the hundred of rockets fired at Israel a few weeks prior and up to that point.
No i am not, and i deplore the actions and the tragedy, but to have me think that this is somehow a single incident and not related directly to the historic event of the last 50 years is absurd. so would would know that this escalation did not occur due to the assassination. To your statement i would say, we "know" very little about this, but the assassination of him could and prolly be interpreted very differently in Israel and Palestine respectively, if Ahmed al-Jabari is seen as a political figure in Hamas, and some say he is, this could most defindently escalate this. this is unecessary quibbling over semantics. hamas can't appear to step back from al-Jabari assination without some kind of response even though it is known they will get spanked. something to do with "honour". they also can't be seen as less militant than the other groups (salafists, islamic jihad, ..) in gaza. israel had to respond as the situation in the south was untenable. it's deterrance had eroded. the end game will be as it always was. eventually a "ceasefire" will be agreed to after and hamas will restock for the next round. my question, why is Israel still providing electricity and gas to gaza? just hermatically seal it off and let egypt take over from the shared gaza-egypt border. My understanding is that Israel does not want to hand over gaza to egypt for several reasons. Egypt is not only sympathetic to gaza's population but also to Hamas Israel fears that Egypt would allow more armaments into gaza that could strike Israel Gaza was under Egypt's control 1948-1967, but after the war Israel took Gaza, they would not want to simply give it back to Egypt 1973 Egypt launches surprise attack against Israel After 1973 Egypt has better relations with west (mainly US) up until Mubarak is ousted in the "arab spring" Now - democratically elected government in Egypt by the people of Egypt who are pro for: Freedom of gaza people, and Hamas rule. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/201211166273719642.htmlThat about sums it up? Very wrong actually, Under Mubarak Egypt didnt want Gaza in the least. As it is armaments flow freely now but if Egypt were to "open the border" as it were it would need to take responsibility for both the population and to prevent terror. Right now gaza is "free" in the sense that they have all of the territory as the contested areas are in the west bank. That is what I meant, that Mubarak did NOT want gaza. Partly because US policy dictated that he would not be openly anti-Israel. But also I presume his government turned a blind eye to most arms being sent to gaza regardless. The difference now is that Mubarak is gone, and Egypt has a democratically elected government. The majority of people in Egypt are against the occupation and the settlement expansion, and the people of Egypt are PRO-Hamas. That is what is different now. When i said you were wrong i meant about handing Gaza to Egypt, we wouldn't mind it in the least its the Egyptians and Gazens who dont want it, I understand now then, that is much more clear. However I believe there are many things the people of Gaza don't want, and that is to be ruled by anyone but themselves. Egypt probably doesn't want Gaza for many reasons, the mass exodus of refugees would not be something any country would want, and also to provide for gaza a place with no real economy, education, power, medical, ect, would be very exspensive. Who pays for that then? The Egyptian people, so yes there are many reasons why Gaza and Egypt don't want to be in bed together. I think we agree then, no?
Seems so.
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What is truly revealing coming out of this conflict is that Russia's Vladamir Putin has backed Egypt's efforts to end the violence.
THEN WHY THE AREN'T YOU BACKING UN END TO THE VIOLENCE IN SYRIA YOU BASTARD PUTIN!
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On November 16 2012 22:58 Mo0Rauder wrote:
What is truly revealing coming out of this conflict is that Russia's Vladamir Putin has backed Egypt's efforts to end the violence.
THEN WHY THE AREN'T YOU BACKING UN END TO THE VIOLENCE IN SYRIA YOU BASTARD PUTIN!
Difference of interest level of course. Russia probably doesn't see Gaza as anything much, hence just say you support end of violence and you look good. Syria is obviously more touchy for Russia since they would actually like Assad to remain in power.
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On November 16 2012 23:08 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:58 Mo0Rauder wrote:
What is truly revealing coming out of this conflict is that Russia's Vladamir Putin has backed Egypt's efforts to end the violence.
THEN WHY THE AREN'T YOU BACKING UN END TO THE VIOLENCE IN SYRIA YOU BASTARD PUTIN! Difference of interest level of course. Russia probably doesn't see Gaza as anything much, hence just say you support end of violence and you look good. Syria is obviously more touchy for Russia since they would actually like Assad to remain in power.
I know the reasons haha, it was more rhetorical. Just such as obvious asshole move by Putin, I bet there are under 50 Gazan's dead, while there are untold tens of thousands of Syrians killed by their government. Pathetic government of Russia is pathetic.
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On November 16 2012 23:10 Mo0Rauder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 23:08 don_kyuhote wrote:On November 16 2012 22:58 Mo0Rauder wrote:
What is truly revealing coming out of this conflict is that Russia's Vladamir Putin has backed Egypt's efforts to end the violence.
THEN WHY THE AREN'T YOU BACKING UN END TO THE VIOLENCE IN SYRIA YOU BASTARD PUTIN! Difference of interest level of course. Russia probably doesn't see Gaza as anything much, hence just say you support end of violence and you look good. Syria is obviously more touchy for Russia since they would actually like Assad to remain in power. I know the reasons haha, it was more rhetorical. Just such as obvious asshole move by Putin, I bet there are under 50 Gazan's dead, while there are untold tens of thousands of Syrians killed by their government. Pathetic government of Russia is pathetic.
Sounds like the exact same thing that is being discussed in this thread.
Russians are much more tolerable of suffering if that suffering occurs while serving the interest of their country. The outsiders who don't get that benefit sit on their high horse and criticize Russia.
People in this thread complain about high casualties and white phosphorus being used, when they are sitting back away from the situation. The Israelis however have skin in the game like the Russians in the example above, and are willing to accept those higher casualty numbers if it leads to the protection of their people in their mind.
(Note: I am not saying anything being done is right or wrong, just comparing the two.)
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On November 16 2012 22:24 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:18 Saryph wrote:
Watching television here and they were talking about this story. They're reporting it as "Hamas just randomly decided to shoot hundreds of rockets into Tel Aviv, and were not provoked in any way by Israel."
The host even asked the reporter three times if Israel did anything to provoke them, and he said no, that Hamas was just doing it to prove they were tough.
Sorta makes me sad when apparently there is better reporting in this thread than in the US media. Hes talking about before the assassination and the only thing that happened before that i can think of was the weapons bombed in Sudan and the killing of rocket launching squad. However those were ~120 rockets launched on the 2 days before but none of them were aimed at Tel-aviv
Don't forget the 12 year old Gaza child that was killed on November 8th by Israeli crossfire. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/08/us-palestinians-israel-violence-idUSBRE8A711O20121108
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How accurate are these tweets from Alqassam Brigades on Twitter? Of course it might as well be more propaganda.
Al Qassam Brigades shot down an Israeli warplane over #Gaza, #Israeli artillery shelling randomly to prevent finding wreckage of warplane
@idfelite Your warplane shot down now over Gaza, more surprises would be on way
https://twitter.com/AlqassamBrigade
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On November 16 2012 21:07 Noam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 21:04 Megelrov wrote:
How do you think that Israel would react if Hamas killed Ehud Barak( or someone in the top of the minister of defense(Roughly the equvilant of Ahmed al-Jabari who was assassinated by Israel earlier this week)?
Im prone to think the response would be massive.
Are you under the impression that the current escalation happened because Israel killed one of Hamas' chief terrorists?
No it all goes back to when you started killing people in palestine to get back your land.
Or are you saying palestinians are not in the defensive stance like before Israel was even created ? You are the agressor, and since the beginning.
So yeah you started all. Stop playing the victim, you are not the 2nd WW jews.
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EPT
