EPTIsrael Bombs Palestine; Kills Hamas Leader - Page 41
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Noam
Israel2209 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On November 17 2012 00:05 WhiteDog wrote: No it all goes back to when you started killing people in palestine to get back your land. Or are you saying palestinians are not in the defensive stance like before Israel was even created ? You are the agressor, and since the beginning. So yeah you started all. Stop playing the victim, you are not the 2nd WW jews. Nor are the Palestinians, Palestinians. Last I checked, the majority of them have never set foot on that land which they claim to be theirs. The wrongs committed against Jews in WW2 is no justification for Israel in the modern day. So why exactly are Palestinians, now mostly gone and dead, entitled to that land which they themselves have never been to? Wrongs done against previous generations is no justification for current affairs. Unless you're a Palestinian, or perhaps in your book, more importantly, not a Jew. | ||
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forestry
95 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
The problem is that the deals are hollow, because there is no trust. Why would they give away part of the land, only to have their enemy sit that much closer to them? It is rather difficult to believe that giving back part of the land will suddenly remove year of indoctrination in a people whom are told that Jews are the pure manifestation of evil. | ||
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ECHOZs
United States499 Posts
On November 17 2012 00:11 zalz wrote: Nor are the Palestinians, Palestinians. Last I checked, the majority of them have never set foot on that land which they claim to be theirs. The wrongs committed against Jews in WW2 is no justification for Israel in the modern day. So why exactly are Palestinians, now mostly gone and dead, entitled to that land which they themselves have never been to? Wrongs done against previous generations is no justification for current affairs. Unless you're a Palestinian, or perhaps in your book, more importantly, not a Jew. Why not stop beating around the bush and just call him an antisemite? | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
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Art.FeeL
1163 Posts
On November 17 2012 00:11 zalz wrote: Nor are the Palestinians, Palestinians. Last I checked, the majority of them have never set foot on that land which they claim to be theirs. The wrongs committed against Jews in WW2 is no justification for Israel in the modern day. So why exactly are Palestinians, now mostly gone and dead, entitled to that land which they themselves have never been to? Wrongs done against previous generations is no justification for current affairs. Unless you're a Palestinian, or perhaps in your book, more importantly, not a Jew. So by your logic there was land, no one living on it. Then one day the Jews decide that it would be befitting to take that land as their homeland. Suddenly everyone hates them just because they are Jews. C'mon this isnt a fairy tale EDIT: What I don't understand why before, Jews and Arabs lived together in peace, no problem between them at all. When the Europe was persecuting them during and after the middle ages, they found shelter in the Islamic Caliphate and later in the Ottoman Empire. I guess it wasn't always like this | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
On November 17 2012 00:35 Art.FeeL wrote: EDIT: What I don't understand why before, Jews and Arabs lived together in peace, no problem between them at all. When the Europe was persecuting them during and after the middle ages, they found shelter in the Islamic Caliphate and later in the Ottoman Empire. I guess it wasn't always like this Because back then, there wasn't a Jewish country in the middle of Muslim land? | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
No it all goes back to when you started killing people in palestine to get back your land. Or are you saying palestinians are not in the defensive stance like before Israel was even created ? You are the agressor, and since the beginning. So yeah you started all. Stop playing the victim, you are not the 2nd WW jews. WhiteDog has never heard of the Gaza Riots (ethnic cleansing of Jews from Gaza) or the Uprising (attempted takeover of the Mandate and ethnic cleansing of Jews from it) or any of the other incidents of unprovoked anti-Semitic, nationalist Arab violence before 1948. He's also probably never learned that the PLO didn't exist until 1964 and that from 1948 - 1964 the great Arab plan was not self-determination for the artificially created "Palestinians" but rather for Egypt to annex Gaza and the Negev and Jordan the rest. But remember, the Jews started it! | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
Why not stop beating around the bush and just call him an antisemite? I thought I was pretty obvious as is. That Whitedog is motivated by more than political beliefs seems obvious, and it isn't an allegation I would throw at anyone in this topic. But what else can one make of it when one repeatedly makes different rules based entirely on the ethnicity of a person? One set of rules for the Jews, another for the Palestinians. He has no coherent ideology, other than Jews bad, Palestinians good. He doesn't judge based on action, only on the ethnicity of the person executing the action. Fire a missile? In his eyes a neutral action. What makes it good or bad is entirely dependant on whether a Jew or a Palestinian fired it. On November 17 2012 00:35 Art.FeeL wrote: So by your logic there was land, no one living on it. Then one day the Jews decide that it would be befitting to take that land as their homeland. Suddenly everyone hates them just because they are Jews. C'mon this isnt a fairy tale EDIT: What I don't understand why before, Jews and Arabs lived together in peace, no problem between them at all. When the Europe was persecuting them during and after the middle ages, they found shelter in the Islamic Caliphate and later in the Ottoman Empire. I guess it wasn't always like this There is good Islamic foundation for hatred of Jews, and is not at all restricted to the post-Israel era. The prophet himself robbed and exiled a group of Jews that betrayed him. | ||
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Shagg
Finland825 Posts
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Art.FeeL
1163 Posts
On November 17 2012 00:55 zalz wrote: I thought I was pretty obvious as is. That Whitedog is motivated by more than political beliefs seems obvious, and it isn't an allegation I would throw at anyone in this topic. But what else can one make of it when one repeatedly makes different rules based entirely on the ethnicity of a person? One set of rules for the Jews, another for the Palestinians. He has no coherent ideology, other than Jews bad, Palestinians good. He doesn't judge based on action, only on the ethnicity of the person executing the action. Fire a missile? In his eyes a neutral action. What makes it good or bad is entirely dependant on whether a Jew or a Palestinian fired it. There is good Islamic foundation for hatred of Jews, and is not at all restricted to the post-Israel era. The prophet himself robbed and exiled a group of Jews that betrayed him. Well they...betrayed him! There was an alliance between them and breaking alliances isn't a wise thing to do. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
Because back then, there wasn't a Jewish country in the middle of Muslim land? "Muslim" land? What an anachronistic concept. Are Europe and America (North and South) "Christian" lands? If the Christians there considered them "Christian" lands the way "Muslim" lands are considered "Muslim lands," would that be acceptable to you? If not, why is it acceptable to think that way about "Muslim" lands? Israel being the "Jewish homeland" doesn't mean that non-Jews aren't allowed in or have to conform their consciences to Jewish sensibilities. On the other hand, in Muslim-majority countries... not conforming to Muslim sensibilities is usually an open invitation to being harassed by the authorities and having your places of worship fire-bombed, and the authorities do nothing to stop imams from preaching violence against you in the mosques. And that's just in the Muslim-majority countries where people of other faiths are actually allowed to openly practice their own beliefs. | ||
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Masamune
Canada3401 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On November 17 2012 01:08 Art.FeeL wrote: Well they...betrayed him! There was an alliance between them and breaking alliances isn't a wise thing to do. The point was more that even in the earliest days of Islam, one can find stories of Jews being depicted as unreliable, lying and traitorous. That Muhammed, the supposed perfect muslim, proceeded to deal with these Jews in not the kindest of ways, provides all the religious foundation you need to both classify Jews in a racist fashion, and treat them as such. Anti-semitism, as such, has both a practical grounding, and religious one. | ||
white_horse
1019 Posts
On November 17 2012 01:00 Shagg wrote: The irony in what Israel is doing is astounding I agree. Whether you are pro-israel or not, the fact that there are people today fear israel's military and its ability to kill civilians is really really hilarious considering how jewish people felt the exact same thing when they were being killed by nazi germany 70 years ago. What goes around comes around. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On November 17 2012 01:21 white_horse wrote: I agree. Whether you are pro-israel or not, the fact that there are people today fear israel's military and its ability to kill civilians is really really hilarious considering how jewish people felt the exact same thing when they were being killed by nazi germany 70 years ago. What goes around comes around. 9.000 people over 50 years. 6 million over 5 years. Potato, holocaust. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On November 17 2012 00:50 DeepElemBlues wrote: WhiteDog has never heard of the Gaza Riots (ethnic cleansing of Jews from Gaza) or the Uprising (attempted takeover of the Mandate and ethnic cleansing of Jews from it) or any of the other incidents of unprovoked anti-Semitic, nationalist Arab violence before 1948. He's also probably never learned that the PLO didn't exist until 1964 and that from 1948 - 1964 the great Arab plan was not self-determination for the artificially created "Palestinians" but rather for Egypt to annex Gaza and the Negev and Jordan the rest. But remember, the Jews started it! And DeepElemBlues has never heard of the balfour declaration of 1918 and the subsequent protests by the Muslim-Christian Association. Zionists, mostly European Jews were actively buying up all the land in Palestine to turn it into a Jewish state from the early 1900's. By 1950's the plan to make Palestine a Jewish state was evident and clear hence why the Christian/Muslim population in Palestine revolted. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On November 17 2012 01:13 DeepElemBlues wrote: Because all modern Western countries are based on the principle of separation of Church and State, whereas several modern Arab countries are theocracies or have strong theocratic elements."Muslim" land? What an anachronistic concept. Are Europe and America (North and South) "Christian" lands? If the Christians there considered them "Christian" lands the way "Muslim" lands are considered "Muslim lands," would that be acceptable to you? If not, why is it acceptable to think that way about "Muslim" lands? If the ruling party in America were something called "the Christian Brotherhood", we might well consider America a Christian land. Even as it is, Christianity has a strong influence in America. | ||
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Noam
Israel2209 Posts
Are you more afraid of a trained military using precision munitions only against military targets, or a group who purposefully targets civilians and their definition of victory is your death. | ||
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