EPTHowever, I do want to point out that the patch change to me seems to have effected ZvZ a great deal in that it favors more defensive minded players. With longer ranged queens it became much easier to defend against ling/bane all ins that previously required insane micro and lots of intense back and forth in the early game. The numbers from Vortix and Slivko ZvZs show that both are more defensive minded players and the Queen range did benefit their mirror match. Whether or not that actually means anything is up for debate. It could signify they are less skilled at early game multitasking, or it could simply suggest they are great at defensive minded play and adding queen range finally gave them the weapon they needed to improve.
Patchzergs, Real or Imagniary? - Page 2
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Swords
6038 Posts
However, I do want to point out that the patch change to me seems to have effected ZvZ a great deal in that it favors more defensive minded players. With longer ranged queens it became much easier to defend against ling/bane all ins that previously required insane micro and lots of intense back and forth in the early game. The numbers from Vortix and Slivko ZvZs show that both are more defensive minded players and the Queen range did benefit their mirror match. Whether or not that actually means anything is up for debate. It could signify they are less skilled at early game multitasking, or it could simply suggest they are great at defensive minded play and adding queen range finally gave them the weapon they needed to improve. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:29 Lonyo wrote: I think you're missing a major comparative point. Non "patchzergs". Surely it would make sense to look at the variation in winrates of the other zergs (e.g Stephano) who were big before the patches. Also there is the timing, which coincides generally with school holidays (for much of the time anyway) where players may either have finished HS and have more time, or simply be on summer holidays, and have more time to practice and play. Well their increase in skill in comparison to existing zergs is what you could argue that the ZvZ is. It was pretty much what I based it all on. If zerg as a whole got an immense boost, these players would have great winrates in ZvP and ZvT, while lacking in ZvZ. This is not the case, as they actually perform best vs other zergs. | ||
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pmp10
3396 Posts
That would make for a much better point. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:28 Burns wrote: sort of going 50% increase vs toss, wtf?????????????? and yes i do think that patch zergs are real, i havent seen heard any zergs complain about how hard the match ups are for them, its like the game has made a complete opposite balance swtich since beta Not sure where he got the pre-patch numbers from. My TLPD shows 7-11 (38%) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-international&type=players&id=2155&part=games&vs=P&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2010&from_month=1&from_day=10&to_year=2012&to_month=5&to_day=10&action=Update vs 1-9 10% for the OP. Post patch is then: Record: 20 wins - 17 losses (54.05%) Which manes a 16% increase in winrate. I think OP might have set the date wrong for SoftOf. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:32 ArcticRaven wrote: Wrong. As someone said in the IEM LR thread, oatchzergs are pirate zergs that play with eyepatches to make them better  other than that I wholeheartedly agree with your post.I guess there are two different definitions of the word then ;P | ||
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ibo422
Belgium2844 Posts
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:34 Lonyo wrote: Not sure where he got the pre-patch numbers from. My TLPD shows 7-11 (38%) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-international&type=players&id=2155&part=games&vs=P&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2010&from_month=1&from_day=10&to_year=2012&to_month=5&to_day=10&action=Update vs 1-9 10% for the OP. Post patch is then: Record: 20 wins - 17 losses (54.05%) Which manes a 16% increase in winrate. I think OP might have set the date wrong for SoftOf. Good catch, must've set the date wrong like you said. Fixed. Thanks. But the post patch date is set correctly I think. Post patch does not include pre patch stats. Nvm they were not, mustve screwed up bigtime. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:33 nkr wrote: Well their increase in skill in comparison to existing zergs is what you could argue that the ZvZ is. It was pretty much what I based it all on. If zerg as a whole got an immense boost, these players would have great winrates in ZvP and ZvT, while lacking in ZvZ. This is not the case, as they actually perform best vs other zergs. That potentially establishes a baseline movement in skill overall, but looking at the change in vP and vT winrates of established players would give more of an indication of underlying patch-derived changes in winrates. Then you compare the skill movement (ZvZ) and patch movement (established players vT and vP results) to the change in the "patchzerg" vT and vP results to take a guess at whether there is patch related change or skill related change or neither or both. None of which is an exact science due to the sample size issues and massive variation in the people they play, and skill level of those people Playing a bunch of people in WCS Sweden isn't the same as playing a bunch of Koreans at IEM. While Sweden is good, they aren't (mostly) Korean level good. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:38 Zanno wrote: why do you try taking a look at the winrates of foreign terrans and see how that's going If you read my post, that was not actually the point of it at all. I was never saying that zerg wasnt favored vs terran. I was saying that these players arent where they are because of it. Please read all of the OP. It's even bolded. | ||
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Kahlgar
411 Posts
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sertman
United States540 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9403C.jpg) fucking patchzergs man | ||
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Dakure
United States513 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:38 Zanno wrote: why do you try taking a look at the winrates of foreign terrans and see how that's going That's like asking to look at Platinum league stats | ||
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
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the`postman
United States1643 Posts
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indxrje
227 Posts
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:43 the`postman wrote: Their ZvT win rates should be increasing, that's the whole point of a buff. Indeed, but their winrates in other matchups should not be increasing(but rather decrease) if they were not legitimately getting better, but rather winning because of the buff. Agree/disagree? | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
On August 20 2012 09:44 Ziggitz wrote: Players performing better after a patch designed to buff them? You don't say... In ZvZ as well? | ||
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