EPTPatchzergs, Real or Imagniary? - Page 26
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artosismermaid
213 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 22 2012 17:59 m0ck wrote: Hell, we saw 'the best protoss in the world', Seed, do it yesterday against Polt.. Not the same thing at all, 4 full medivacs in TvP by midgame (nearly impossible to clean without AoE) is not comparable to 1 full medivac in TvZ by lategame in which Zergs can afford lots of Spines. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10596 Posts
On August 22 2012 17:34 Ghanburighan wrote: Captain obvious here didn't watch Mvp's games. That's why we know they are not good, as they were moving one big army around to try to deal with multi-drops. Surprise surprise, it didn't end up working well, although they somehow still made the games look close. I did watch them. MVP won. Your point exactly is? If other Terrans are not able to exploit this (huge) flaw in the Zergs play then they are probably "prepatchsince1.0imbalanced"-Terrans. It's like letting a Zerg drone up to 80 Drones whiteout doing anything to him and then claiming he has no skill because his enemy never took advantage of the Zergs greed. | ||
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Sepi
Finland231 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:10 artosismermaid wrote: I am a patch zerg. I switched to zerg after this patch and was able to get to masters. I had previously been playing terran for 2 years and was unable to ever get out of diamond. coincidence? Lol, i did actually too. I played terran for so long and never got out of diamond, now just got my Z mechanics to good level and got to masters. So i guess not so much coincidence. Z is easier on our level. [Edit] We are not patch zergs though. Patch zergs are previous ZERGS that have had more succes post patch than pre patch. But generally, the patch triggered our switch? no? | ||
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pOnarreT
155 Posts
On August 22 2012 17:30 Velr wrote: The 1A syndrome... Moving the whole army to fight a single drop is ONLY an error if the enemy actually exploits it... If the Terran attacks 2-3 Places at once the Zerg pays for sending his whole army to one place, if the Terran is only attacking one place at a time sending your whole army is actually the best answer possible. Don't blame the Zergs for getting away with this... No Patch or anything has something to do with this. If there is only 1 Place to defend at one time it's actually "smart" to take your whole army to defend it because you will get rid of it faster while using less units lost. Zergs should pay for moving their whole army to defend against some small drop.. But the Terran/Protoss/Whoever has to make them pay.... If the Terran is only attacking 1 place at a time but the attack is in form of a drop harass, then no, sending your whole army is not the best possible answer as you would be out of position. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10596 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:43 pOnarreT wrote: If the Terran is only attacking 1 place at a time but the attack is in form of a drop harass, then no, sending your whole army is not the best possible answer as you would be out of position. Which is only a problem when the Terran is actually exploiting it. Else it's a good way to deal with it because a much more powerfull force will kill a smaller force in less time with less losses. The ball to exploit that "shit" is on the Terrans foot, not on the Zergs and the Patch has just about nothing to do with it. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:45 Velr wrote: Which is only a problem when the Terran is actually exploiting it. Else it's a good way to deal with it because a much more powerfull force will kill a smaller force in less time with less losses. The ball to exploit that "shit" is on the Terrans foot, not on the Zergs and the Patch has just about nothing to do with it. Yeah, obviously you need 120 army supply to deal with 8 Marines and 1 Medivac. You can't send enough to quickly crush the drop but not everything so that the Terran is not able to gain ground... | ||
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PleasureImWallace
Canada45 Posts
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Applesqt
United States206 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:22 Sepi wrote: Lol, i did actually too. I played terran for so long and never got out of diamond, now just got my Z mechanics to good level and got to masters. So i guess not so much coincidence. Z is easier on our level. [Edit] We are not patch zergs though. Patch zergs are previous ZERGS that have had more succes post patch than pre patch. But generally, the patch triggered our switch? no? Zergs easier to get to masters than Terran with, it's been like this for a long time so it's not just this patch. Zerg starts getting harder at really high levels while Terran gets harder at around diamond. | ||
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Ireniicus
United Kingdom374 Posts
Yes Prepatch Zerg was absolutely struggling to a couple of very early timing attacks that Blizzard, rightly imho thought were slightly imbalancing the game and addressed them bringing the game back to balance. What we have subsequently witnessed is as the game matured it has taken longer for our top players to tweak the metagame now these early attacks against zerg are less potent. Taeja and MVP continue to do it for the Terrans and multiple Toss have also now found appropriate responses. If anything Toss is now the dominant race due to their advantage in lategame v Terran and having several strong counters to Zergs 3 base play. Should we be talking about Toss players improving purely because of the insanely strong sentry/immortal push out at 10.30 and kill all Zergs opening?' The answer is of course not! We should be looking to the worlds top Zergs to find the army composition/drone ratio sweet spot to defend it. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:50 TheDwf wrote: Yeah, obviously you need 120 army supply to deal with 8 Marines and 1 Medivac. You can't send enough to quickly crush the drop but not everything so that the Terran is not able to gain ground... Which is only a problem if the Terran is exploiting it. Terran that does not exploit that --> stay unpunished Terran that does exploit that --> lose ground, be out of position, get a disadvantage It's what is called skill. Find those mistakes and punish them. Flash comment on SC2 drops: "It's a basic play that anyone can do so that's not much of a problem. What's more important is making a situation where that ends up working. I haven't been able to do that yet." | ||
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pOnarreT
155 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:45 Velr wrote: Which is only a problem when the Terran is actually exploiting it. Else it's a good way to deal with it because a much more powerfull force will kill a smaller force in less time with less losses. The ball to exploit that "shit" is on the Terrans foot, not on the Zergs and the Patch has just about nothing to do with it. Say you were in a game and a drop happens to you and you were Zerg vs Terran, you don't know what his plans are, would you send your whole army to defend the drop? The aformentioned Zergs did this without knowing what the Terran's plans are. This is a poor decision unless you know that the Terran is not gonna do anything except that drop. Even so, I wouldn't send all my units for a 1 medivac drop. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10596 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:50 TheDwf wrote: Yeah, obviously you need 120 army supply to deal with 8 Marines and 1 Medivac. You can't send enough to quickly crush the drop but not everything so that the Terran is not able to gain ground... Do you have troubles reading? People here are bitching about Zergs sending their hole army to defend against 8 Marines and getting away with it, this is the Terrans fault, not the Zergs. If the Terran is too bad to exploit this flaw in the Zergs reaction then the Terran is to blame... Not some "Patch" or whatever. If the Terran is not exploiting this weakness sending a BIG army to defend against a tiny one is actually the better answer then sending "just enough". A flaw in a play is only a problem if the enemy is capable of exploiting it... Most Terrans seem to not do that (or not doing it harsh enough), so Zergs keep on "1A-Syndroming". Sometimes they lose cause of it, often it doesn't matter. It's the same like many Terrans losing their Vkining clump to a few Fungals, Broodlords dieing to 1 Vortex/Toilet... Flaws in play which with a bit better control could be erradicated... But they don't seem to punish you hard enough so it will take some time until not only the very, very, very best will stop doing these mistakes. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:09 Big J wrote: Which is only a problem if the Terran is exploiting it. Terran that does not exploit that --> stay unpunished Terran that does exploit that --> lose ground, be out of position, get a disadvantage You can't always know if there are only speedlings (and how many of them) or if he was dumb enough to pull back his Infestors and BLs too. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10596 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Comparing winrates before and after for these guys shows nothing... THe level of competition they faced changed quite a bit considering they have been more known / playing bigger matches. You can't just say the winrates are similar thus they are not patchzergs... People should take a class or think a bit before posting their 'statistics' insights... | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:17 Velr wrote: Yeah, "scan"... You're aware that depending on maps Zerg can have his army pretty much anywhere, especially with Ultras? Are you supposed to scan 5 screens just to try to exploit something Zerg should never do anyway? Geez. | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
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league
Peru58 Posts
On August 22 2012 19:12 pOnarreT wrote: Say you were in a game and a drop happens to you and you were Zerg vs Terran, you don't know what his plans are, would you send your whole army to defend the drop? The aformentioned Zergs did this without knowing what the Terran's plans are. This is a poor decision unless you know that the Terran is not gonna do anything except that drop. Even so, I wouldn't send all my units for a 1 medivac drop. This. Poor decision making at its finest. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
A couple of months back meeting a diamond level zerg was scary for me. In most cases he could take me apart with superior multitasking, mutalisk harass, denying bases etc. Now meeting such zerg is a real treat - I wonder where did those guys go. Oh yeah, masters league probably. The new, improved diamond patchzerg is just sitting there, building queens and waiting for the infestor/bl to come out. He is able to pick me apart with that composition in 95% of games (if he gets there), still - I'm just no longer impressed. In the end I like the way this patch works out as it gives me more time to be aggressive and have some good poking around, sniping bases etc. Now I'm even no longer frustrated with sniping the third into losing-to-deathball scenarios, as these things seem to be quite common even on pro level (see Vortix's games on IEM). For me the "old-style" TvZ was more fun to watch but much harder to play. Now, with the patchzergs around it seems that it is the other way around. | ||
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