On August 21 2012 03:14 Thurken wrote: The results in high level korean tournaments are really different than that, showing that a race is not imba at the moment, but more a metagame.
I dont think its about metagame, in my opinion most of this "terrans are doing fine in korea and bad outside" has to do with game design. Terran more micro intensive and requires more skill on high level then other races so only very top of terrans will do well. I dont think there is a patch that can fix it, we need to wait for add ons and hope that blizzard give terrans some less micro intesive units so weaker terran can do better.
People really need to stop asking Blizzard to lower the skill ceiling of terran. The other 2 races should rather be made as micro intesive, that way the better player would win more often than not. Right now I feel TvT and ZvZ(after the queen buff) are really the only 2 MUs where the better player wins almost always.
Terran is the most micro intensive race ?
Terran mainly involves relatively more movement based micro (Marines, Marauders, Medivac, Vikings, setting up right rallies, dropping, Hellions/Banshees move-kite). When playing mech, it becomes more positioning based though.
Protoss involves relatively more casting based micro (Sentry FF/GS, Stalker Blink, HT storm/feedbacks, warping in reinforcements) It does feel easier for me, which is why I used to main protoss.
Zerg involves relatively more positioning/map awareness micro (Keeping them Ovies pooping/floating, being active with mutas without them flying into turrets, positioning Zerglings/Roaches/Banes/Ultras for surrounds, moving Broods/Queens in positions to fight the main army of opponent, keeping creep spread going)
Just different kind of micro imo. For me I find Terran micro (marine splitting) to be hard.
Casting is not "micro". Micro stands for micromanaging units in battle, a continuous action you need to be dedicating time and attention to to maximize your performance. Micro in its purest form is pulling a wounded unit away until it stops taking damage, then pushing it back into combat to deliver damage, splitting units to dodge AoE-based damage and focus firing.
Casting (especially in SC2) is instantaneous - it's more so about the decision making (when to cast and what to target) than it is about the physical requirement (handspeed, multitasking) that is inherent to micro and that makes micro an actual skill. The only exception being Blink, which is some sort of a weird semi-automatic micro.
Terran midgame micro is difficult, but also the most rewarding and most true to the term micro itself. In fact, Terran as a whole is the only race that satisfies all the requirements RTS gameplay must contain in order to be challenging in the right way (physically as well as strategically). Playing Terran is the staple of RTS gameplay, while the other two races deviate far too much in weird directions and lack the completeness and elegance in design. Protoss and, to a lesser extent, Zerg units feel more like strategic options you choose than physical tools you use to do things with.
I think this is ridiculous. If it were like 30%+ extra winrates I would be like hey that's true, but most of it is <10% win rate gain. Come on, they're just playing the strengths of their race better. It's pretty annoying reading the op. It just seems to be shitting on the 3 players it listed and then backing it up with "I like them, don't get me wrong".
On August 21 2012 06:43 MonkSEA wrote: I think this is ridiculous. If it were like 30%+ extra winrates I would be like hey that's true, but most of it is <10% win rate gain. Come on, they're just playing the strengths of their race better. It's pretty annoying reading the op. It just seems to be shitting on the 3 players it listed and then backing it up with "I like them, don't get me wrong".
I can see how you find it annoying, when you don't seem to understand a single word that was written in the OP. That's not what it says at all. It says the opposite actually.
On August 21 2012 06:43 MonkSEA wrote: I think this is ridiculous. If it were like 30%+ extra winrates I would be like hey that's true, but most of it is <10% win rate gain. Come on, they're just playing the strengths of their race better. It's pretty annoying reading the op. It just seems to be shitting on the 3 players it listed and then backing it up with "I like them, don't get me wrong".
You should consider your math. For example Vortix, goes from 51% to 65%. That isn't a +14%, that's actually a +-28% to his prepatch winrate. And that's quite huge if you know to read the numbers. Actually that's almost 2/3 wins against terrans.
On August 21 2012 03:46 NaEjeOn88 wrote: After the patch i switched to zerg cause its so much easier to play with lol. Patch Zergs do exist, good write up!!
Lol did you really switch from terran to zerg? O_O
It's an offensive term that basically takes credit away from hard working individuals that are achieving success. When a new zerg player that's been grinding out the game for years does well now they get hurled abuse about them being a patchzerg, I frankly can't wait to see the back of this stupid term, as it does more harm than it's worth
WCS Korea Winners bracket quarter finals - 4 Protoss
So what does this mean? That Korea has a different version of SC2 installed in which Protoss is super buffed? NO!!! It just means there are currently more performing Protoss in Korea atm compared to other races. Similarly, there are currently more performing Zergs in NA and EU compared to other races. Use your brain people.
On August 21 2012 00:08 AzoriuS wrote: Questioning someones success because u have problems with zergs and give them a title "patchzergs". I thought u will add Nerchio too and ashame yourself. If zerg is so op then tell me wheres Idra idol of teamliquid, wheres TLO, Sheth, Ret ? They all play zergs even prepatch and they are owned by koreans in every matchup.
The most funny thing are players who whine and make some "patchzergs" names arent even in masters league They struggle in diamond, plat,gold or even worse but they talk alot about balance instead of improving theirs macro. Balance is the problem in grandmaster/high master elo. Your only enemy dear whiners is macro.
First post i completly agree with, it just makes me laugh when all this platinum and silver players are whining on teamliquid and posting 1000x posts how its impossible to beat zerg. Oh yeah and i forgot how every1 is suposed to loose when playing against korean or he is a patchzerg.
Ok, but when even the top Terrans feel there's an issue with the matchup we should disregard them too? You can't castigate 'all the silver and platinum' players for having their opinion, and also disregard what top Terrans believe regarding the matchup.
It's great when people reduce the argument to ad hominem attacks on players supposed skill levels.
I didnt notice that majority of top terran are complaining(they kind of cant, looking at torunament results etc. or every1 would laugh at them) and beside that i was targeting with my post majority of this forum. Its not top terrans that post on every page "omfggg patch zergs blabla imba", and thats how live report threads of every tournament looks like at the moment.
This is true. The only complaints you see from professional terrans are outbursts of frustration on twitter right after a match saying “Zerg IMBA”. Most of them say that the match up is hard and discuss the holes they see in the current builds. But at the end of the day, I have not seen a single terran that is worth talking about complain the match up is totally broken.
After all, while we are all doing this, MVP is practicing.
If by practicing you mean snorkeling in a pool filled with his tournament trophies then yes, you are correct sir.
My personal view for Vortix, he has always been very impressive and solid since his entrance into the scene. It takes a real good player to take games off players like Squirtle and Mvp. He, in my opinion would have made it to where he is now regardless of any patch. He's a very impressive and solid player and I love seeing his play.
Just seen this on Suppy's stream: entire top 6 NA is zerg
When I checked yesterday, 3 out of top5 EU GM were terran (Happy, ForGG, BratOK I believe it was), so doesn't really say much tbh. Who tops the GM ladder depends so much on who plays the most etc as so many GM players have similar winratios.
On August 22 2012 09:20 PauseBreak wrote: Just go to SC2 ranks. And look and the saturation of Zerg. Zerg players should just email sc2.ranks.com and tell them they are biased.
Here are the worldwide Zerg saturation stats from sc2.ranks.com:
Division: Zerg/Division Total ~ percentage of Zerg within league GM: 457/1239 ~ 36.88% Masters: 9900 /29300 ~33.79% Diamond: 17941/50900 ~35.25% Plat: 29948/86300 ~34.70% Gold: 35669/113800 ~31.34% Silver: 41246/153000 ~26.93% Bronze: 49900/225000 ~22.18%
You still miss what the LR threads are complaining about. We are watching the games, and watching mechanically bad players push MVP (among others) to the limit. Watching Vortix 1a his whole army from the the east side of the map to the west over and over to deal with a single marine drop is what is making people mad. Its stuff like that. The patch let zergs get to end game without having any issues, where they can compete on an even ground against better opponents.
Now maybe its an issue with infestor/brood being too easy to execute. But we call them 'patchzergs' because at least before the patch, you needed skill to get to infestor/brood. Infestor buff followed by queen buff gives Zergs their free ez mode lategame comp. Thats the issue.
If you can give me a legitmate reason not to call them patchzergs (cause your stats, while small, actually prove patchzergs exist. Your zvz argument is flawed), then i'll stop. But until they do the small things that separate a good player from a bad player, the flames wont stop. Tell me how you can defend them with so many examples like the one I gave above. Are we watching the same games?
all three of these Zergs were on the rise before the patch hit. they would be beasting it up right now regardless. and this is coming from a terran player.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UnV0q.jpg)
