HOTS main buildings now displaying # of workers - Page 17

On June 09 2012 08:46 MrBitter wrote:
This only happens in spectator mode, dudes. It's not ez-mode saturation button in the live client yet. Not from my play experience, at least.

On June 09 2012 06:13 Censured wrote:
I personally don't like it very much. It makes it a LOT easier to know when to transfer workers to a new base, but on the other hand that's exactly what a skilled player should check all the time, spent some APM on it etc, It makes quite a difference if your saturation is perfect or your base is over/under saturated. Now EVERYONE would have a perfect saturation in every base.

On June 09 2012 08:36 uSnAmplified wrote:
I think people need to be reminded of this video....+ Show Spoiler +

On June 09 2012 08:51 paintfive wrote:


yea, you should definently replace dustin browder

On June 09 2012 08:48 jinorazi wrote:

indeed ;3

On June 09 2012 08:53 Daniel C wrote:

An appropriate analogy for the point you are making is that pro-bowlers should have to play with blindfolds on because they should be used to dimensions of the track/walking area (don't know what the term for that is?). Does that encourage skill? Yes, but not the type that we want.

On June 09 2012 06:16 VPCursed wrote:
ok so i guess a semi pro has to come in and set this to rest. I was GM many seasons and I can assure you that this change has absolutely 0 fucking effect on anything.. People at my level and pros especially can easily glimpse at the mineral line... not even dragging our mineral line to see how many workers we have.
I mean, you guys are really completely missing the idea of a strategy game when you get in an uproar about this shit.

On June 09 2012 08:22 StarBrift wrote:


I am a top master player on europe. In world rank maybe top 10.000 in the world. With this change my econ management would be equal to DRG or Nestea. Do you see the problem here? 10k players being able to mimic certain aspects of a progamers performance with ease.

If you're arguing that boxing workers in this build is hard to do in a high level game then I'm with you. But they are about to remove that and thus remove one of the core aspects of strong macro play.

On June 09 2012 08:53 v3chr0 wrote:



He should.

But before he does, he should probably know that Broodwar's skill cap was influenced by limited functionality with the interface.

On June 09 2012 08:01 StarBrift wrote:


Nah, I said its the only thing that separates a top pro from a masters player ECONOMY WISE. If you're gonna be a douchebag and try to earn cool points atleast try to actually read the post. Also there's a quote feature on this forum. That "some guy" person is really easy to find and quote in a short thread like this.

And NO, top 30 master zergs do not have perfect econ management in this build. I watch maybe 10 hours of top zerg streams every week. Players like Idra, Ret, DRG, Nestea, Losira, Stephano, Revival etc. All of them have 2-5 too many workers on their main mineral lines from time to time in the early to midgame. Small things that give you maybe 100 more minerals in the long run so they wont break a game for you but its still something every pro can to improve on. Every single top pro mind you. Forget top 30 GM being able to do it.

If this change is not for obs only but also for players then all these pros will have perfect ammounts of workers at their bases at all times. Blizzard has then sucessfully removed something that separates the very top of progamers from the rest of the top echelon of players. That is purely negative.

This change will make macro easier especially for zerg players as econ management is very heavily based on how many workers you can squeeze out to mine from the maximum ammount of bases without dying. Zergs that bind their hatcheries individually (like Nestea, DRG, Losira, Revival etc) will be able to jump in between their hatches during battles or slightly before/after and VERY easily allways have the optimal counts.

On June 09 2012 08:51 Daniel C wrote:

I encourage you to sit down, think about the ridiculousness of your statement, and come back.

Or how about this: let's have you play a game where an observer helps you by telling you the no. of workers you have every time you press a CC to mimic this change. And we compare your macro to DRG/nestea. OK?

On June 09 2012 09:01 roymarthyup wrote:



i garuntee they are making those extra workers on purpose to transfer later.

many times its good for zerg to make extra drones in anticipation for a future transfer

larva does not regenerate if the hatchery is larva capped and thus you must turn larva into drones or fighting units so they decided on drones

i never see a pro with workers that SHOULD be transferred that arent transferred very quickly to the right location

if idra has extra drones on a base but all his bases are saturated then transferring them is pointless. you transfer them when you take your fourth but theres nothing wrong with making extra drones in anticipation for a future transfer

Theres not a SINGLE top30 masters player that will benefit from this change. this changes nothing because they already counted their workers before. fine maybe theres a couple top30 master zergs that got there somehow without knowing how to count his workers, maybe less than 1%.

On June 09 2012 08:11 Ruscour wrote:
This is a good change, the only people disagreeing want things to be difficult for the sake of difficulty...this is like a tiny version of the multiple building selection issue. In any case, it makes things easier for scrubs without affecting good players at all, any change like that is good for the game overall

On June 09 2012 09:05 StarBrift wrote:


Nope you are wrong. Today Nestea was streaming ladder games. He had 20+ workers in his main mineral line and 6 on his natural vs a terran. There is no upside to this. He simply overlooked it. Granted that was a bigger mistake than he would do in an important game but he would still have something like 2-5 workers misplaced over 3 bases. It's normal and every single top pro zerg does it. Most players of the other races too. If you are under the impression that they don't then you are deluded. I suggest you download a replay pack from one of the most recent MLGs and take a look at the current best zerg in the world (imo) DRG. Those games are about as important as they get and he will still not manage his econ perfectly because it's hard to do. Bear in mind that 16 workers per mineral line is optimal and there is no reason to keep more if another base is short unless you have to travel more than one base in travel distance.

On June 09 2012 08:51 Psychobabas wrote:


thank fuck for that

On June 09 2012 09:08 RifleCow wrote:


Read this everyone before raging all over the place.

On June 09 2012 09:00 Alacast wrote:


Baseless claims are baseless. A better player will simply adjust his rallies, transfer workers, or cut production at a better times than you while simultaneously spending his extra APM maneuvering his army more quickly and in more places. No single person has ever played a "perfect" game of Starcraft because, as I said, there is an infinite amount of things you could theoretically be doing with any and all of your units/buildings at a given moment, thus maximizing your control over said actions should be facilitated as much as possible. In this way, mediocre players who master esoteric and rather mundane tasks through rote repetition but who lack the strategic mind, physical control, or dedicated practice routine will not be able to eek out wins through sheer mechanical prowess.

This should allow more games to be decided by real decisions, flawless execution, and mental toughness rather than ridiculous things like boxing and counting workers. If the only thing separating the best from the mediocre is such a low-level unconscious task that can easily be superseded by better game design, then Starcraft 2 has a long way to go before being considered a true competitive game. I believe, however, that the depth of this game extends far beyond the mechanical skills, whose maximization is a necessary and inescapable hurdle to overcome, to the beautiful and haunting creativity and sheer strength of mind/will to recognize and exploit subtle and minute chinks in your opponent's armor. Players who accomplish the bare minimum of mechanical skill and achieve victory are, to me, boring and a dime-a-dozen; players who do all that easily, quickly, efficiently, and without a second thought are the truly inspirational and joyful to watch who will win tournament after tournament against the best in the world because they are the complete package, not relying on one tiny advantage (boxing and counting workers) to defeat their opponents, but rather utilizing and delving deeper into the untold layers of perfection that can be achieved inside the game.

On June 09 2012 09:08 roymarthyup wrote:


umm if your about to produce some drones to head to your nat its actually better to keep the 20 on your main line as 20 is max saturation


the 10 seconds it takes to run to your natural thats 10 minerals lost per drone transferred and if your gonna make more drones very soon to send to your natural sometimes its better to send new drones to your natural instead of transfering below 20


if nestea had 25 on his main and didnt transfer 5 over id consider it a mistake. however sometimes i see that scenario in pro games but thats because hes micro'ing something else then when he gets back to base he quickly fixes the saturation issue