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HOTS main buildings now displaying # of workers - Page 16

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v3chr0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States856 Posts
June 08 2012 23:43 GMT
#301
No reason to make something easy, even easier when it is something that adds to the skill ceiling.

Why do we have to count in rows of 8? Idk, but it should stay that way.
"He catches him with his pants down, backs him off into a corner, and then it's over." - Khaldor
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
June 08 2012 23:43 GMT
#302
this feels like 40% want to enjoy bowling with rails so they put rails for everyone. logic: it doesn't hurt those who are already good but it'll help the bad players. this is terrible logic.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
June 08 2012 23:44 GMT
#303
How does this make the game easier for high level play? Good players are already on top of stuff like this, but it will help the learning curve for the nubs in the lower leagues that are trying to get used to everything. Games like SC2 have a steep learning curve to completely new players.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
June 08 2012 23:46 GMT
#304
This only happens in spectator mode, dudes. It's not ez-mode saturation button in the live client yet. Not from my play experience, at least.
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
June 08 2012 23:46 GMT
#305
On June 09 2012 08:46 MrBitter wrote:
This only happens in spectator mode, dudes. It's not ez-mode saturation button in the live client yet. Not from my play experience, at least.


Thank you! Blizzard has more sense than most of the commentators here.
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
June 08 2012 23:46 GMT
#306
On June 09 2012 08:46 MrBitter wrote:
This only happens in spectator mode, dudes. It's not ez-mode saturation button in the live client yet. Not from my play experience, at least.


omg add to OP wtf lol
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Velocirapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States983 Posts
June 08 2012 23:47 GMT
#307
On June 09 2012 08:36 uSnAmplified wrote:
I think people need to be reminded of this video....+ Show Spoiler +


It is very rare that this type of gamer humor has an impact on me but I literally laughed out loud like three times at this video. it is so relevant to the discussion too, good job.
Daniel C
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong1606 Posts
June 08 2012 23:47 GMT
#308
On June 09 2012 08:43 jinorazi wrote:
this feels like 40% want to enjoy bowling with rails so they put rails for everyone. logic: it doesn't hurt those who are already good but it'll help the bad players. this is terrible logic.

And that's a terrible analogy...
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Cracy
Profile Joined October 2011
Poland221 Posts
June 08 2012 23:47 GMT
#309
I really don't see a point of making things harder for the sake of them being harder... The HotS version they have shown already shows huge increase in skill ceiling. And as someone noticed before me the future possibilities will put bot WoL and BL to shame.

After all this is a spectators' sport - at least they earn at spectators. You can't really see one counting works, but you definitely will (and what's even more important - want to) see pros doing insane micro tricks and creating new strategies...
Oderint dum probent
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
June 08 2012 23:47 GMT
#310
On June 09 2012 08:42 Daniel C wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2012 08:22 StarBrift wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:13 Alacast wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:01 StarBrift wrote:
On June 09 2012 07:51 roymarthyup wrote:
lol at someone in this thread saying counting workers is the only thing that seperated really high master zergs from low master zergs


lmao. im pretty sure every every top30 master zerg knows exactly how many workers they have at all times and i garuntee all of their builds are mapped to a T in determining when they will have X amount of workers in order to pull off Y timing or Y action

and below top30 master is pretty much just an extension of diamond in my opinion so you cant compare diamond to top30 masters


Nah, I said its the only thing that separates a top pro from a masters player ECONOMY WISE. If you're gonna be a douchebag and try to earn cool points atleast try to actually read the post. Also there's a quote feature on this forum. That "some guy" person is really easy to find and quote in a short thread like this.

And NO, top 30 master zergs do not have perfect econ management in this build. I watch maybe 10 hours of top zerg streams every week. Players like Idra, Ret, DRG, Nestea, Losira, Stephano, Revival etc. All of them have 2-5 too many workers on their main mineral lines from time to time in the early to midgame. Small things that give you maybe 100 more minerals in the long run so they wont break a game for you but its still something every pro can to improve on. Every single top pro mind you. Forget top 30 GM being able to do it.

If this change is not for obs only but also for players then all these pros will have perfect ammounts of workers at their bases at all times. Blizzard has then sucessfully removed something that separates the very top of progamers from the rest of the top echelon of players. That is purely negative.

This change will make macro easier especially for zerg players as econ management is very heavily based on how many workers you can squeeze out to mine from the maximum ammount of bases without dying. Zergs that bind their hatcheries individually (like Nestea, DRG, Losira, Revival etc) will be able to jump in between their hatches during battles or slightly before/after and VERY easily allways have the optimal counts.


You DO realize that having the number on the screen is not the same as automatically moving workers around right? It still takes time, thought, practice, planning, and execution to manage your workers; they simply removed a single step of the process: boxing your workers. Now all you have to do is look at the number! You'll probably see lots of mid/low-tier pros with over/under saturation often because there's simply too many other important things to do in the game that demand your APM and concentration. Don't deny the infinity that is the potential options at any given moment in the game-you can always be doing something more, even if 99% of the game is automated.



With this change my econ management would be equal to DRG or Nestea.

roflol!

OT: I don't see the problem with this change. It gives you information, that's all, doesn't help you micro or make decisions. Or are you one of those people who think less information = better? So let's remove things like supply counts and mineral shrinking animation and upgrade progress and game timer and no. of resources because clearly a good player would be able to keep track of all of these and we don't need to make the game any easier!!


Why are you laughing? Are you claiming that a top master player won't be able to perfectly manage his workers after this hits? If you are then I don't know what to say. You just don't understand the game at a high enough level. Either that or you don't understand what separates a pro gamer from a master player. It's mostly multitasking you know. Most top master players will have picture perfect macro when playing against a bronze player. It's doing things when you are pressured by another good player that is hard. Removing one of those tasks completely from the game instantly levels a player like me who lacks multitasking compared to pro gamers to a level closer to them. A level that I shouldn't be at because I have done nothing to deserve it. The game simply got easier.
v3chr0
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States856 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-08 23:49:22
June 08 2012 23:47 GMT
#311
On June 09 2012 08:44 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
How does this make the game easier for high level play? Good players are already on top of stuff like this, but it will help the learning curve for the nubs in the lower leagues that are trying to get used to everything. Games like SC2 have a steep learning curve to completely new players.


How doesn't it make it easier? If you're eliminating having to learn this skill, you have made it easier.

Edit: I really hope it's just spectator mode.
"He catches him with his pants down, backs him off into a corner, and then it's over." - Khaldor
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
June 08 2012 23:48 GMT
#312
On June 09 2012 08:47 Daniel C wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2012 08:43 jinorazi wrote:
this feels like 40% want to enjoy bowling with rails so they put rails for everyone. logic: it doesn't hurt those who are already good but it'll help the bad players. this is terrible logic.

And that's a terrible analogy...

indeed ;3
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Coolness53
Profile Joined April 2010
United States668 Posts
June 08 2012 23:48 GMT
#313
On June 09 2012 08:46 AndAgain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2012 08:46 MrBitter wrote:
This only happens in spectator mode, dudes. It's not ez-mode saturation button in the live client yet. Not from my play experience, at least.


Thank you! Blizzard has more sense than most of the commentators here.


I was thinking it would be cool to see it in replays but not sure about live in a game.
Fruitdealer, DongRaeGu, and Soulkey
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
June 08 2012 23:48 GMT
#314
Disagree with a lot of you. I like it. It is not automation. It is simply more information. This no different than the game telling you how many warp gates are off cooldown. I didn't see you complainers chime in about that way back in beta.

If you don't like it, there will surely be different graphical options available for those of you who wish to turn it off.
Canada
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-08 23:51:11
June 08 2012 23:48 GMT
#315
On June 09 2012 08:46 MrBitter wrote:
This only happens in spectator mode, dudes. It's not ez-mode saturation button in the live client yet. Not from my play experience, at least.


Thank you for this information. This is a relief to hear. It's actually a great addition for spectators. Especially to analyser your own replays.
FrogOfWar
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1406 Posts
June 08 2012 23:48 GMT
#316
On June 09 2012 08:38 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2012 08:26 Gheed wrote:
You still have to click and read a number. Literally the only aspect of skill this alleviates is being able to mentally multiply by 8 and subtract however many don't fill up the last line.


No. Thats like if u had an alert that tells u "build a supply depot in the 10 next second or u will be supply blocked". Its is right in front of your eyes, you dont have to force yourself to remember to do it, the game tells you to do it. Its pretty big.


If you're serious about that analogy, the game tells you to not get supply blocked all the time in the top right corner of the screen. You don't even have to click.

This change is meaningless. The things that matter and make a good player are knowing when to make how many workers, when to transfer, being able to spend all money, not getting supply blocked, gas timings, expaning before mining out ... so many things the number doesn't help with at all. Why is Ret the king of drones? Because he can ... count?

Especially as zerg, going up to 24 just because you want a saturated base can be the decision that kills you.
CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr
Profile Joined June 2012
544 Posts
June 08 2012 23:49 GMT
#317
On June 09 2012 08:46 MrBitter wrote:
This only happens in spectator mode, dudes. It's not ez-mode saturation button in the live client yet. Not from my play experience, at least.


Destroyed this thread.... i want those 15 minutes back lol
awaiting the return of the space cowboy
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
June 08 2012 23:49 GMT
#318
God, you guys that were hating on this change would make terrible game designers.

Skill ceilings shouldn't be defined by limiting the interface. By this logic, your idea of a perfect game would be playing hide-and-seek with blindfolds.
Daniel C
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong1606 Posts
June 08 2012 23:51 GMT
#319
On June 09 2012 08:47 StarBrift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2012 08:42 Daniel C wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:22 StarBrift wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:13 Alacast wrote:
On June 09 2012 08:01 StarBrift wrote:
On June 09 2012 07:51 roymarthyup wrote:
lol at someone in this thread saying counting workers is the only thing that seperated really high master zergs from low master zergs


lmao. im pretty sure every every top30 master zerg knows exactly how many workers they have at all times and i garuntee all of their builds are mapped to a T in determining when they will have X amount of workers in order to pull off Y timing or Y action

and below top30 master is pretty much just an extension of diamond in my opinion so you cant compare diamond to top30 masters


Nah, I said its the only thing that separates a top pro from a masters player ECONOMY WISE. If you're gonna be a douchebag and try to earn cool points atleast try to actually read the post. Also there's a quote feature on this forum. That "some guy" person is really easy to find and quote in a short thread like this.

And NO, top 30 master zergs do not have perfect econ management in this build. I watch maybe 10 hours of top zerg streams every week. Players like Idra, Ret, DRG, Nestea, Losira, Stephano, Revival etc. All of them have 2-5 too many workers on their main mineral lines from time to time in the early to midgame. Small things that give you maybe 100 more minerals in the long run so they wont break a game for you but its still something every pro can to improve on. Every single top pro mind you. Forget top 30 GM being able to do it.

If this change is not for obs only but also for players then all these pros will have perfect ammounts of workers at their bases at all times. Blizzard has then sucessfully removed something that separates the very top of progamers from the rest of the top echelon of players. That is purely negative.

This change will make macro easier especially for zerg players as econ management is very heavily based on how many workers you can squeeze out to mine from the maximum ammount of bases without dying. Zergs that bind their hatcheries individually (like Nestea, DRG, Losira, Revival etc) will be able to jump in between their hatches during battles or slightly before/after and VERY easily allways have the optimal counts.


You DO realize that having the number on the screen is not the same as automatically moving workers around right? It still takes time, thought, practice, planning, and execution to manage your workers; they simply removed a single step of the process: boxing your workers. Now all you have to do is look at the number! You'll probably see lots of mid/low-tier pros with over/under saturation often because there's simply too many other important things to do in the game that demand your APM and concentration. Don't deny the infinity that is the potential options at any given moment in the game-you can always be doing something more, even if 99% of the game is automated.



With this change my econ management would be equal to DRG or Nestea.

roflol!

OT: I don't see the problem with this change. It gives you information, that's all, doesn't help you micro or make decisions. Or are you one of those people who think less information = better? So let's remove things like supply counts and mineral shrinking animation and upgrade progress and game timer and no. of resources because clearly a good player would be able to keep track of all of these and we don't need to make the game any easier!!


Why are you laughing? Are you claiming that a top master player won't be able to perfectly manage his workers after this hits? If you are then I don't know what to say. You just don't understand the game at a high enough level. Either that or you don't understand what separates a pro gamer from a master player. It's mostly multitasking you know. Most top master players will have picture perfect macro when playing against a bronze player. It's doing things when you are pressured by another good player that is hard. Removing one of those tasks completely from the game instantly levels a player like me who lacks multitasking compared to pro gamers to a level closer to them. A level that I shouldn't be at because I have done nothing to deserve it. The game simply got easier.

I encourage you to sit down, think about the ridiculousness of your statement, and come back.

Or how about this: let's have you play a game where an observer helps you by telling you the no. of workers you have every time you press a CC to mimic this change. And we compare your macro to DRG/nestea. OK?
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
paintfive
Profile Joined September 2011
785 Posts
June 08 2012 23:51 GMT
#320
On June 09 2012 08:49 Defacer wrote:
God, you guys that were hating on this change would make terrible game designers.

Skill ceilings shouldn't be defined by limiting the interface. By this logic, your idea of a perfect game would be playing hide-and-seek with blindfolds.


yea, you should definently replace dustin browder
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