HOTS main buildings now displaying # of workers - Page 18

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shizna

United Kingdom803 Posts

June 09 2012 00:21 GMT

#341

yeah because pro players never accidentally make >100 workers, ever...

Sbrubbles

Brazil5776 Posts

June 09 2012 00:21 GMT

#342

Omg Starcraft 2 ez mode! Bliz keeps taking the difficulty out of the game!

Seriously, it amazes me how many people have that mentality.

CarlosOmse

Germany507 Posts

June 09 2012 00:21 GMT

#343

i dont get i when peaople bitch about stuff like this, u just wouldnt have to count ur workers by ur own any more evry time a games gets made easier in totally reasonable way people bitching about ....
allthough it seems to be just for spectators

Daniel C

Hong Kong1606 Posts

June 09 2012 00:22 GMT

#344

On June 09 2012 09:01 StarBrift wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 09 2012 08:51 Daniel C wrote:

On June 09 2012 08:47 StarBrift wrote:

On June 09 2012 08:42 Daniel C wrote:

On June 09 2012 08:22 StarBrift wrote:

On June 09 2012 08:13 Alacast wrote:

On June 09 2012 08:01 StarBrift wrote:

On June 09 2012 07:51 roymarthyup wrote:
lol at someone in this thread saying counting workers is the only thing that seperated really high master zergs from low master zergs

lmao. im pretty sure every every top30 master zerg knows exactly how many workers they have at all times and i garuntee all of their builds are mapped to a T in determining when they will have X amount of workers in order to pull off Y timing or Y action

and below top30 master is pretty much just an extension of diamond in my opinion so you cant compare diamond to top30 masters

Nah, I said its the only thing that separates a top pro from a masters player ECONOMY WISE. If you're gonna be a douchebag and try to earn cool points atleast try to actually read the post. Also there's a quote feature on this forum. That "some guy" person is really easy to find and quote in a short thread like this.

And NO, top 30 master zergs do not have perfect econ management in this build. I watch maybe 10 hours of top zerg streams every week. Players like Idra, Ret, DRG, Nestea, Losira, Stephano, Revival etc. All of them have 2-5 too many workers on their main mineral lines from time to time in the early to midgame. Small things that give you maybe 100 more minerals in the long run so they wont break a game for you but its still something every pro can to improve on. Every single top pro mind you. Forget top 30 GM being able to do it.

If this change is not for obs only but also for players then all these pros will have perfect ammounts of workers at their bases at all times. Blizzard has then sucessfully removed something that separates the very top of progamers from the rest of the top echelon of players. That is purely negative.

This change will make macro easier especially for zerg players as econ management is very heavily based on how many workers you can squeeze out to mine from the maximum ammount of bases without dying. Zergs that bind their hatcheries individually (like Nestea, DRG, Losira, Revival etc) will be able to jump in between their hatches during battles or slightly before/after and VERY easily allways have the optimal counts.

You DO realize that having the number on the screen is not the same as automatically moving workers around right? It still takes time, thought, practice, planning, and execution to manage your workers; they simply removed a single step of the process: boxing your workers. Now all you have to do is look at the number! You'll probably see lots of mid/low-tier pros with over/under saturation often because there's simply too many other important things to do in the game that demand your APM and concentration. Don't deny the infinity that is the potential options at any given moment in the game-you can always be doing something more, even if 99% of the game is automated.

With this change my econ management would be equal to DRG or Nestea.

roflol!

OT: I don't see the problem with this change. It gives you information, that's all, doesn't help you micro or make decisions. Or are you one of those people who think less information = better? So let's remove things like supply counts and mineral shrinking animation and upgrade progress and game timer and no. of resources because clearly a good player would be able to keep track of all of these and we don't need to make the game any easier!!

Why are you laughing? Are you claiming that a top master player won't be able to perfectly manage his workers after this hits? If you are then I don't know what to say. You just don't understand the game at a high enough level. Either that or you don't understand what separates a pro gamer from a master player. It's mostly multitasking you know. Most top master players will have picture perfect macro when playing against a bronze player. It's doing things when you are pressured by another good player that is hard. Removing one of those tasks completely from the game instantly levels a player like me who lacks multitasking compared to pro gamers to a level closer to them. A level that I shouldn't be at because I have done nothing to deserve it. The game simply got easier.

I encourage you to sit down, think about the ridiculousness of your statement, and come back.

Or how about this: let's have you play a game where an observer helps you by telling you the no. of workers you have every time you press a CC to mimic this change. And we compare your macro to DRG/nestea. OK?

I have compared my macro to Nestea / DRG. I have replays of them and a lot of myself. Do you think macro is hard in this game by itself? I have had better macro than Nestea and DRG in some of my games simply because my oponents are horrendous in comparison to their oponents. Macro in this game is only hard because of the multitasking required to have it during a high level game.

Then what is your point? You claimed the change will make you macro like nestea then you say you can already macro like him? Wtf is this

How about this: pick a game where your macro fails because you are getting harassed or whatnot. Are you claiming that this small change will elevate your macro to nestea's standard? thought not.

roymarthyup

1442 Posts

June 09 2012 00:25 GMT

#345

On June 09 2012 09:17 StarBrift wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 09 2012 09:08 roymarthyup wrote:

On June 09 2012 09:05 StarBrift wrote:

On June 09 2012 09:01 roymarthyup wrote:

On June 09 2012 08:01 StarBrift wrote:

i garuntee they are making those extra workers on purpose to transfer later.

many times its good for zerg to make extra drones in anticipation for a future transfer

larva does not regenerate if the hatchery is larva capped and thus you must turn larva into drones or fighting units so they decided on drones

i never see a pro with workers that SHOULD be transferred that arent transferred very quickly to the right location

if idra has extra drones on a base but all his bases are saturated then transferring them is pointless. you transfer them when you take your fourth but theres nothing wrong with making extra drones in anticipation for a future transfer

Theres not a SINGLE top30 masters player that will benefit from this change. this changes nothing because they already counted their workers before. fine maybe theres a couple top30 master zergs that got there somehow without knowing how to count his workers, maybe less than 1%.

Nope you are wrong. Today Nestea was streaming ladder games. He had 20+ workers in his main mineral line and 6 on his natural vs a terran. There is no upside to this. He simply overlooked it. Granted that was a bigger mistake than he would do in an important game but he would still have something like 2-5 workers misplaced over 3 bases. It's normal and every single top pro zerg does it. Most players of the other races too. If you are under the impression that they don't then you are deluded. I suggest you download a replay pack from one of the most recent MLGs and take a look at the current best zerg in the world (imo) DRG. Those games are about as important as they get and he will still not manage his econ perfectly because it's hard to do. Bear in mind that 16 workers per mineral line is optimal and there is no reason to keep more if another base is short unless you have to travel more than one base in travel distance.

umm if your about to produce some drones to head to your nat its actually better to keep the 20 on your main line as 20 is max saturation

the 10 seconds it takes to run to your natural thats 10 minerals lost per drone transferred and if your gonna make more drones very soon to send to your natural sometimes its better to send new drones to your natural instead of transfering below 20

if nestea had 25 on his main and didnt transfer 5 over id consider it a mistake. however sometimes i see that scenario in pro games but thats because hes micro'ing something else then when he gets back to base he quickly fixes the saturation issue

False. Stop lying about stuff that has been proven in other threads. 16 workers per base is the first goal since after the first 16 you get diminishing return. Hence you get more money from having you workers spread out as 16-16 than you would if you had 20-12. Those 4 extra workers in your main are getting you less minerals than they would in your natural. And transfering them down to the natural loses you less minerals than they gain by gathering from your natural. Hence it is allways more economically efficient to have 16 workers in all your bases before you go over 16 in any of them (unless you have to run a really really long way in between bases or are anticipating making zerg buildings soon).

actually most zergs try to get 19-20 drones per mineral line. 16 would cut your income by 15% per base. your enemy wont let you have 4 bases quickly if hes skilled so you maxout your 3base mineral income with 19-20 drones per mineral line

TheSwamp

United States1497 Posts

June 09 2012 00:25 GMT

#346

Can someone please close this thread? It's getting embarrassing.