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On June 06 2012 21:48 stfouri wrote:
OP has a point tough, there will be less people watching tournaments if they start becoming too stacked with Koreans.
And thats bad in the long run. Great for true starcraft fans, but bad for casual viewer.
I allready hear it from my friends that used to play and watch alot of starcraft, that there is nopoint watching cause its too stacked with Koreans, they might watch 2 games from the whole night just because there is Stephano or Idra taking on someone big, but thats it.
Bolded part is just my opinnion, but what ive seen myself it seems to be the truth. Stack too much Koreans and atleast my friends stop watching. Ofc if its like only NA players they won't bother either, so its all about balancing it.
I understand this POV, but if you want to have a legitimate tournament with a wider range of nationalities, you need infrastucture + players willing to move into team houses and such or make MLG foreigner only.
if you invite foreigners who didn't deserve to be there, it'll be just a slaughterhouse and I don't think the casual fan would like to see foreigners getting humilliated.(well, maybe if the foreigner is IdrA, he have a ton of haters)
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ya i'd like to see people from around the world do well, my home country is especially lacking in talent
But the sad truth is, they are simply worse. why they are worse is irrelevant, they are still worse. At the end of the day the true spirit of competition is what should be followed, not discriminatory policies making a boatload of foreigners qualify. Let the best players win and if only stephano can make top 8 every single tourney then foreigners just need to get better.
You wouldn't limit african-americans in the NBA- its discriminatory for one and also makes the games not played at a top level
IMO a better solution would be some sort of league like GSL but in a different place like Europe or NA so that people who are in that region can compete, its just difficult and expensive to set up 
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On June 06 2012 21:51 Paljas wrote:
its like complaining that the best 100 meter runners are all black. maybe a little less racist.
not not less racist at all!
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On June 06 2012 21:51 Paljas wrote:
its like complaining that the best 100 meter runners are all black. maybe a little less racist.
It's more like complaining that the final of 100 meter is done between 7 Jamaican and 1 guy from the USA.
The color doesn't mean anything in our discussion.
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On June 06 2012 21:53 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:46 WallieP wrote:On June 06 2012 21:43 ES.Genie wrote:On June 06 2012 21:40 WallieP wrote:
Ps: People calling this topic racism and asking for a close of this topic, get a life! People asking for a limited number of Koreans at major tournaments, get a life! See what I did there? I see what you tried yes, but you failed. Talking about racism in a topic/conversation like this is just out of proportion. Saying "random korean who likes noodles" is a bit borderline. Even from a german. (see what i did there?)
You are right, its a borderline comments, but thats just 1 line, i was talking about the whole picture which is to many koreans at major tournaments
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I dont understand, evey single tournament we have a Foreigner going deep, be it huk, naniwa, stephano? It makes there runs even more prestigious. And when a foreigner does something impressive in korea, we see it like a revolution each time, even if that foreigner calls you an 12 year gold fanboy on a forum to "let off steam".
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Russian Federation748 Posts
On June 06 2012 21:52 Windwaker wrote:xD germans are gm in complainig
Thank God he's not French then.
On June 06 2012 21:55 Chilling5pr33 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:51 Paljas wrote:
its like complaining that the best 100 meter runners are all black. maybe a little less racist. not not less racist at all!
What I assume he meant is, while Black people dominate in sprint because of genetics (may or not be true but is a very widespread opinion) while Koreans dominate through superior practice regime.
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WCG is basically a massive advertisment plot for samsung so of course they want to attract as many foreigners to change it up and to attract as many people to their product as possible their aim is to get their product out there but for MLG to do this would seem just plain wrong since it would take away from their competitiveness and become more a 'just a for funsies tounrament'. It's not MLGs fault that Koreans dominate, it's the foreigners.
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On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
With MLG coming up this weekend we have another one of our biggest events and it is totally dominated by Koreans again.
Because they performed better.
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Lately every MLG and IPL have been totally Korean dominated
Because they perform better.
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote: and that makes it just so much less interesting.
For you.
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Yes I love to watch GSL, I also like to watch Broodwar OSL but when Im watching an international tournament it should be INTERNATIONAL.
In your opinion, so write a blog or cry into the pillow.
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Do you know what Koreans did when they hosted their first international tournament (WCG)?
They didnt allow more than 3 players from every country to avoid a bracket with 31 Koreans in the top 32. They knew that most people would not be interested in watching a 2nd OSL which is run on 2 days.
What did they do instead? They created a tournament which greatly supported esport in dozens of countries for almost a decade.
Where are they now?
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:How does MLG ever want to present their product to a larger audience if its all about Random Korean 1 who likes noodles and plays all day against Random Korean 2 who likes noodles and plays all day? (Sorry for the polemical phrases but im quite disappointed.)
Your problem with distinguishing people of other race is a touching story and almost as sad as the fact that you're watching SC2 not primarily for the gameplay.
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Casual viewers know the top foreigners and a few Koreans like MC.
Then they'll get a great chance of getting to know other Korean players at the MLG.
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
What makes GSL so great is the incredible level of play and the hard competition.
What has made MLG the best tournament in the past was the great athmosphere, the interesting storylines, rivalries etc. and also the great games of course.
So, there can't be storylines and rivalries between Koreans? You're genuinely that narrow minded or just racist?
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
But really, in 2012 most of that is gone.
Because your favourite player didn't make it to the bracket?
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Yes the level of play is awesome, but I can see better games in the GSL every day.
Why do you turn MLG into a one weekend GSL?
How do you know, you can see better games at GSL if the MLG hasn't happened yet. That's curious....
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
Ive bought MLG passes in the past, I will still buy GSL passes and for Homestory cup – not for MLG anymore until this changes again.
Do you think, someone at MLG HQ is gonna change the way tournament works, because one unhappy customer threatened to not buy a pass? Grow the fuck up.
On June 06 2012 21:14 marcesr wrote:
And to all the people who say that foreigners should just train harder.
Do you really think that it is realistic, especially with the BW pros switching to SC2, that we will EVER have more than 3 foreigners who can keep up with the top 30 Koreans? Its not.
Keep telling yourself those excuses.
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On June 06 2012 21:52 ES.Genie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:46 WallieP wrote:On June 06 2012 21:43 ES.Genie wrote:On June 06 2012 21:40 WallieP wrote:
Ps: People calling this topic racism and asking for a close of this topic, get a life! People asking for a limited number of Koreans at major tournaments, get a life! See what I did there? I see what you tried yes, but you failed. Talking about racism in a topic/conversation like this is just out of proportion. Someone wants to limit the number of people major tournaments because of their nationality, but it's out of proportion to talk about nationalism/racism? Yeah you are so damn right. "How does MLG ever want to present their product to a larger audience if its all about Random Korean 1 who likes noodles and plays all day against Random Korean 2 who likes noodles and plays all day?" Racism? Get a life. Nice troll.
You are right, the comments about the noodles eating isnt nice, but thats just 1 line and im not so narrow minded i will not read the rest of the story then or only react on that single lin... i was talking about the whole picture which is to many koreans at major tournaments which i agree on... that has nothing to do with racism but just making the tourneys more fun to watch and have more of a "click" with the players
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You cant blame the organizations because the players of some region are bad, its players fault.
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On June 06 2012 21:55 Maxquatre wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:51 Paljas wrote:
its like complaining that the best 100 meter runners are all black. maybe a little less racist. It's more like complaining that the final of 100 meter is done between 7 Jamaican and 1 guy from the USA. The color doesn't mean anything in our discussion.
Nah when they move and get a US / EU citicenship would that change the view of the OP? I doupt it!!!
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Well, I can provide the two reasons why I will watch MLG live this weekend, even though I watch 99% of GSL and GSTL matches and I'm located in a timezone that's rough for US live broadcasting:
- First, the format is different from GSL. Since this a weekend event it is often an endurance run, especially from the open bracket, you may see other types of strategies and players rise to the top than in the GSL. GSLs format allows longer prep time, which favours certain players (eg Nestea, as I understand it?). It's also why so many people enjoy GSTL alongside GSL: you get to see different players and strategies than the ones you normally see.
- Second, and most importantly, the live audience adds an amazing energy to the games. This is not something you get from GSL/GSTL. And it affects some players in amazing ways. Anybody else remember MMA vs MVP in the GSL finals at Anaheim last year? Boxers various series at MLGs and his reactions afterwards? MCs Murloc suit and other various antics? Cause I sure do. Some players get hyped up from the crowd and produce games and situations that stick with you as least as long as 'game/series with brilliant play in GSL finals'. And this is the Anaheim crowd. Those guys and gals are nutso for starcraft, producing a crowd response on a whole other level than other US crowds.
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Switzerland6838 Posts
On June 06 2012 21:52 SomeONEx wrote:
Dude, MLG is from one of the most capitalistic countries of the world, they think money>equality.
I don't know how you missed it, but it is true and I'm afraid it wont change.
how is giving spots to bad foreigners a step towards "equality" ?
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I remember when a friend of mine started playing SC2, I told him he should watch some vods of pros playing, he started with Destiny and idrA, then he found out about the korean pros and never looked back.
So it's really up to the person, if you care about the gameplay more than funny jokes and shit, you will enjoy the koreans more (atleast in my experience.)
Now of course nationality can be a different thing, but then again no one really blames you if you root for a guy from your own country, it's more when you root for anything that isn't a korean and claim it as your own.
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On June 06 2012 21:53 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:46 WallieP wrote:On June 06 2012 21:43 ES.Genie wrote:On June 06 2012 21:40 WallieP wrote:
Ps: People calling this topic racism and asking for a close of this topic, get a life! People asking for a limited number of Koreans at major tournaments, get a life! See what I did there? I see what you tried yes, but you failed. Talking about racism in a topic/conversation like this is just out of proportion. Saying "random korean who likes noodles" is a bit borderline. Even from a german. (see what i did there?)
LOL fuck you, mate. I don't see what racism and a German nationality would have in common. There is NO RELATION in any way whatsoever. Not in history, not in present, not in the future. I would go so far as to say that there has never been human being on this planet who was a racist and called himself a German. Just doesn't happen.
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If allowing only the highest level of competition to survive would kill the scene, this isnt a scene worth saving. If Koreans are the best, then EVERY spot in every tournament should go to the koreans. And if that means the death of sc2 esports? Then maybe thats for the best.
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On June 06 2012 21:29 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 21:23 Gosi wrote:On June 06 2012 21:17 Naniwa wrote:On June 06 2012 21:16 Hassybaby wrote:
Damn people who practice the game more winning!
Right? foreigners dont have same conditions as the koreans  shut your mouth if you just jump on the bandwagon response What does this have to do with anything? So koreans shouldn't practice as much because foreigners can't keep up and it isn't fair or what is your point? i write my opinion then i stop posting, 1. 99% of all practice replays with any korean players will be leaked if ur a foreigner unless ur in the same team 2. They will always prioritize korean players over foreign players even if they are in other teams. ( Korean pride ) 3. Its not the same outside korea because there is so few good players and no teamhouses in the same way.. the eg house is in america and its the only one there which makes it useless in terms of getting better practice than sitting at home. these are just my experiences. ladder is still good practice but not optimal just letting of some steam i guess . have fun 12 year old fans whos comments i wont be reading!
Well the koreans want to maintain their superiority. It's a natural move I guess, especially if you look how close the korean players are with each other regardless of teams.
If non-Korean players out there would stick more together, they may could improve a lot more. And you really don't need team houses for that. In an age of skype, teamspeak, etc. you can allways talk about starcraft to people around the globe, if you want to. You just need to organise your stuff. Korean teams are much better organised, than foreign teams. They have real coaches and might help each other out a lot more while practicing. What you hear is, that foreign teams have more money than korean ones. So I ask myself, why they don't invest in infrastructure and staff to improve their practice? Watching TL in the GSTL without a coach was kinda embarassing to be honest.
And when I talk about infrastructure I also mean online infrastructure. You don't need to run team houses to have practice shedules, team meetings, strategical discussions etc.. It may be harder, but it is very well possible to emulate those things online. And if non Korean teams and players are willing to commit a little more to esport like some players, who went abroad to korea allready did, they could very well keep up with the koreans.
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On June 06 2012 22:00 AlvisSP wrote:
Well, I can provide the two reasons why I will watch MLG live this weekend, even though I watch 99% of GSL and GSTL matches and I'm located in a timezone that's rough for US live broadcasting:
- First, the format is different from GSL. Since this a weekend event it is often an endurance run, especially from the open bracket, you may see other types of strategies and players rise to the top than in the GSL. GSLs format allows longer prep time, which favours certain players (eg Nestea, as I understand it?). It's also why so many people enjoy GSTL alongside GSL: you get to see different players and strategies than the ones you normally see.
- Second, and most importantly, the live audience adds an amazing energy to the games. This is not something you get from GSL/GSTL. And it affects some players in amazing ways. Anybody else remember MMA vs MVP in the GSL finals at Anaheim last year? Boxers various series at MLGs and his reactions afterwards? MCs Murloc suit and other various antics? Cause I sure do. Some players get hyped up from the crowd and produce games and situations that stick with you as least as long as 'game/series with brilliant play in GSL finals'. And this is the Anaheim crowd. Those guys and gals are nutso for starcraft, producing a crowd response on a whole other level than other US crowds.
You are absolutely right a US-crowd cheering for the Koreans is absolutely amazing and they restored the faith in humanity a bit for me at least.
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On June 06 2012 21:52 RageCommodore wrote:
That's like saying "ban the european teams from Soccer world championship, they are too strong!!!1"
Look at the qualifying spots for the world cup, the tournament would be composed of mostly european and south american teams if they didn't have limited spots. Countries like New Zealand, T&T, N. Korea and so on would never qualify.
Anyway I lose interest when brackets are filled nothing but koreans in foreign tournaments, while touranments without koreans have much less prestige, I want tournaments to find the middle ground and invite like half a dozen koreans at most.
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EPT
