EPTWhy do mapmakers get no say in their own maps? - Page 2
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On May 12 2012 04:59 Fabozi wrote: that way tournaments shouldn't use modified versions of blizzard maps (close spawns removed. etc) On May 12 2012 04:59 Aeris130 wrote: If map creators expect MLG to contact them first, then MLG should expect mapmakers to never release imbalanced maps in the first place. If map makers feel they cannot deliver on this point, they should meet MLG half-way and allow them to make any changes they might want to implement before using the map. The big difference is that, different than Blizzard, ESV and TPW don´t make shitty maps. Also note that the islands were not imbalanced, they were just never used which is something different. On May 12 2012 05:01 Exarl25 wrote: Do map makers actually receive any compensation for their work? Or do tournaments just throw a map into their pool without contacting the original creator at all? Nope, nada. Just for the fun of making them. @ Diamond: How is the law situation with maps? Does Blizzard own everything and anything, no matter of the creator? | ||
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:01 Exarl25 wrote: Do map makers actually receive any compensation for their work? Or do tournaments just throw a map into their pool without contacting the original creator at all? No compensation AFAIK | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:02 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: Probably the same reason players replays are shared and casted without asking them. This is actually a really good point imo. | ||
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
I personally feel the bigger issue for you is that 'ESV' isn't in the credits for who made the map. I'd rather see ESV - Ohana or whatever than MLG - Ohana, when all MLG did was change rock positions. On May 12 2012 05:02 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: Probably the same reason players replays are shared and casted without asking them. Great point. | ||
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TrickyGilligan
United States641 Posts
It's not really the same though, because the original (in this case the game being played) isn't changed at all by the caster. If tournaments simply took maps without permission (which I'm sure they do) I doubt Diamond would be complaining. It's the fact that they're taking them, and then modifying them for seemingly bizarre reasons. | ||
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paintfive
785 Posts
If they were, it would be fair game, but I'm guessing they aren't. Maybe GSL does? I'm going to guess MLG removed the islands because they didn't want any prolonged 1+ hours games. Especially in open brackets. | ||
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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:01 Torte de Lini wrote: So lay it out for us right now: what would you say if MLG approached you about changing the map and removing the island. You would note how the islands are important for XYZ reason. You would note how it gives race bias, etc. You would note that the island are intended and essential to the overall map-layout. MLG would agree, understand, acknowledges, and make the choice of doing it anyways or keeping it as is. Outcome is relatively the same (just less informed) and your viewpoint is maintained and acknowledged. I see your point and obviously, consultation of your own creation is something most or anyone would agree on. I don't know if the priority is there. Well, just look at what GSL does, many GSL maps have received updates which are supposed to make them better, but GSL doesn't go ahead and change the maps themselves based on what they think. Afaik they talk with the map makers and let them implement changes. I assume the map makers have at least some say in this, and it's coordinated, not like in this case. That would show at least some sort of respect for map makers, since they already don't receive any compensation and the map names and loading screens are also edited in most cases. | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
If a big organization decides to use your product, such as a map, then expect them to make tweaks to to make them fit better. It's just the how life works, both in private and in business. I mean did they remove your name or somehow descredit you as the creator of the map, no they did not. It's not a big deal... really. And if you really feel that bad about it, why don't make a deal with them, some sort of agreement or something. I doubt venting on TL.Net will help you. | ||
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treekiller
United States236 Posts
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Firesilver
United Kingdom1190 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:08 Integra wrote: I have a feeling this has to do with the classical artist total ownership of his/her work syndrome. If a big organization decides to use your product, such as a map, then expect them to make tweaks to to make them fit better. It's just the how life works, both in private and in business. I mean did they remove your name or somehow descredit you as the creator of the map, no they did not. It's not a big deal... really. I think they did remove ownership and name (MLG instead of ESV). Not confirmed though. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:02 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: Probably the same reason players replays are shared and casted without asking them. Is there not a clause in the paperwork where you register for a tournament that says the replays are theirs to use? | ||
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:09 Torte de Lini wrote: I think they did remove ownership and name (MLG instead of ESV). Not confirmed though. if they did then they are assholes. | ||
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Bear4188
United States1797 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:10 Klondikebar wrote: Is there not a clause in the paperwork where you register for a tournament that says the replays are theirs to use? The Starcraft 2 EULA makes every replay and map belong to Blizzard, nobody really has any legal standing to deny usage except Blizzard. | ||
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:07 TrickyGilligan wrote: It's not really the same though, because the original (in this case the game being played) isn't changed at all by the caster. If tournaments simply took maps without permission (which I'm sure they do) I doubt Diamond would be complaining. It's the fact that they're taking them, and then modifying them for seemingly bizarre reasons. I agree it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison. I just thought the point that many times a replay is released by one party and casted without consulting the other player was interesting. I think that ideally the map creators and tournaments/leagues would work closely together the way Proleague and their map making team did. But things are too disorganized and there are too many independents things going on for that to happen. | ||
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paintfive
785 Posts
On May 12 2012 05:02 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: Probably the same reason players replays are shared and casted without asking them. Tournaments should seriously consider not releasing ANY replays. It hurts the competitive scene because styles and builds get quickly countered by lesser players. It's already bad enough as it is with the match history showing BOs to like the 60th supply...... | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
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