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On May 12 2012 06:15 windzor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 06:12 Logo wrote:On May 12 2012 06:10 windzor wrote:On May 12 2012 05:40 Zombo Joe wrote:
EULA don't mean anything and never stand up in a court.
You have to buy the game to read it, and there is no way to disagree with it, as you will never get a refund for it.
So people who keep saying "the EULA says" stop being complete tools. Maps are the intellectual property of their makers, this has always been the case and always will be, no EULA can say otherwise. Software EULA's has been to court in several Western Constries as a legal document (Several cases regarding the Windows EULA that i know of). So yes it will stand up in court in most contries. Why would anyone have a EULA if it wouldn't? Even if the EULA doesn't hold up it wouldn't be clear that MLG is infringing on anything. That doesn't really make sense. But as Blizzard owns the content, and they have never shown interest into doing anything of upholding it, the argument is moot. But again, the real question here is, has MLG the ethics to give the mapmakers the respect they deserve to do their work for them.
Sure it does, there's a whole mess of issues ranging from possibly implied licenses to fair use to what actually about the map file can be copyrighted, especially given it's Blizzard's map format and much of the actual artistic merit of the map file relies on Blizzard filling it in with art assets and tiles.
But yeah Blizzard's claim of owning the content would probably hold up anyways.
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Yea Blizzard said multiple times that everything that is created in SC 2 is owned by Blizzard/Activision. So even if someone made a map, they actually don't own it. I think this is going to change when the marketplace comes out but until then anything you make is property of Blizzard.
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Massive douche move by MLG imo.
I think that if someone takes effort into creating something, no one else should mess around with it, without the concent of the creator.
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I can say from personal experience that Blizzard did a very good job of contacting me about the changes that Ohana went through. I took the time to go through our e-mails (roughly 57 emails, back and forth between them and me), and took some screenshots of how they addressed their feedback, comments, and concerns regarding any problems they found with the map:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Zo1oJ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/25fY6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hp9aF.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Rl6f5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0JYgR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dq69V.jpg)
I might dislike blizzard for a hundred reasons, but this is partially why I respect Blizzard so much when it comes to them "paying attention." They really do, and this is the example that tournaments should follow regularly if they plan on using a map and changing it for their tournament.
These screenshots alone should show how tournament custom maps should be handled if changes are needed.
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Only caught chunks of it. SOTG
The league does...(sundance cuts off)
MLG LEE
Decisions made by the league group. Changes made to counter some lag issues on Metro. Something we talked with Blizzard about.
Overtime, has to be dealt with at a larger scale...
We could do better organizing
...
Could see Map Coordination between MLG and Kespa in the future.
...
InControl: Why not ask the map creator to make adjustments?
MLG LEE
Probably an oversight and Blizzard been talking to map creators, they had to even pull the off ladder pool.
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up.
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They just asked about this on State of the Game, and MLGLee demonstrated that he has no idea what the fuck he is talking about by saying that they removed the islands because of the lag issues with the ladder version of the map. The two have nothing to do with each other.
edit: I'm not even sure Lee knew he was talking about the islands. He was like, "they removed the map because of like, the lag issues? On ladder? Is that the one you were talking about? That's all the 'league team,' I'm not a part of that." Jesus Christ. Can't listen to this person talk.
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On May 12 2012 06:50 tsuxiit wrote:
They just asked about this on State of the Game, and MLGLee demonstrated that he has no idea what the fuck he is talking about by saying that they removed the islands because of the lag issues with the ladder version of the map. The two have nothing to do with each other.
Yep, complete fluff. Can't say I'm surprised as it's all MLG tends to disseminate these days.
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Well they didn't pay for it. It's out there for free, most of the map is still intact, MLG and other tournament organizers can do what they want with them.
Nobody consulted blizzard when removing close spawns or adding neutral supply depots. Why would single mapmakers get any more say?
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On May 12 2012 06:53 SolidMoose wrote:
Well they didn't pay for it. It's out there for free, most of the map is still intact, MLG and other tournament organizers can do what they want with them.
Nobody consulted blizzard when removing close spawns or adding neutral supply depots. Why would single mapmakers get any more say?
Because Blizzard has a clause in large tournament licenses that allows you to edit Blizzard maps at will.
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On May 12 2012 06:50 Sufinsil wrote:
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up.
What is an IP license?
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Adding a consultation process to using a community map would probably dampen enthusiasm (on the part of organisers) for adopting them in tournaments.
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On May 12 2012 06:57 Superouman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 06:50 Sufinsil wrote:
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up. What is an IP license?
Interlectual Property license, they own the "code" and license it to "you"
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Really MLG? Really?
From a long-term business-perspective, this is a bad move. The community has widely acknowledged that games played on maps made by these top map-makers -> better games. Better games -> better viewership and better drive of return viewership, which directly correlates to MLG revenue.
The greatest incentive that these mapmakers have is personal pride in their own accomplishment. By wantonly changing maps, you diminish the value of that incentive, leading to, in the long-term, fewer great mapmakers, and a poorer selection of maps. Because of the long-term value added by maps, this decision negatively impacts MLG's own value.
Because of this, the map change needs to add significant value to justify the negative impact it has on the broader mapmaking scene. I have a hard time believing this adds meaningful value to MLG. This is a bad decision.
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On May 12 2012 06:58 windzor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 06:57 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:50 Sufinsil wrote:
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up. What is an IP license? Interlectual Property license, they own the "code" and license it to "you"
Oh cool, i didn't know we got this
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On May 12 2012 07:00 Superouman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 06:58 windzor wrote:On May 12 2012 06:57 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:50 Sufinsil wrote:
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up. What is an IP license? Interlectual Property license, they own the "code" and license it to "you" Oh cool, i didn't know we got this
We don't.
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On May 12 2012 07:01 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:00 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:58 windzor wrote:On May 12 2012 06:57 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:50 Sufinsil wrote:
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up. What is an IP license? Interlectual Property license, they own the "code" and license it to "you" Oh cool, i didn't know we got this We don't.
I was happy for 1 minute 
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On May 12 2012 07:01 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:00 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:58 windzor wrote:On May 12 2012 06:57 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:50 Sufinsil wrote:
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up. What is an IP license? Interlectual Property license, they own the "code" and license it to "you" Oh cool, i didn't know we got this We don't.
I didn't think so. Maybe with enough community pressure, we can help you guys get the IP licenses so you have a leg to stand on? B-Net forums better place, maybe?
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I just have to chime in as a content producer, who has been planning upcoming events. Both TPW and ESV are incredibly easy to reach and deal with. I've even reached out to CruX on a single occasion and received rapid response, I'd imagine it is even easier with Korean at your disposal in some way. Map-making teams turnaround is quick and MLG citing any overhead time/planning issues for doing this is complete BS.
MLG Lee citing lag is completely wrong of course since clearing the islands probably has little if any effect on the lag footprint, this was a gameplay decision.
To me the expansion of Starcraft culture is entirely dependent on the development of the baseline experience. That development only comes from making maps better, making tournaments better, streamers connecting more with audiences, etc etc. Treating something someone made for that unselfish purpose like this, just melts my brain and is so so disappointing.
I can't imagine the ignorance of the guy who went into that MLG map with the ol' delete tool never having a thought for a moment to consult the creators. The community literally empowers their heaving behemoth of a company to profit through friggin philanthropic creative contributions such as this. Bite the hand that feeds much?
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I was always bugged that tournaments would call the maps they use ">enter tournament name here< mapname".
If there is anything, that should go in front of the name of the map, then it's the name of the author, not the tournament that is using it!
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On May 12 2012 07:07 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:01 Diamond wrote:On May 12 2012 07:00 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:58 windzor wrote:On May 12 2012 06:57 Superouman wrote:On May 12 2012 06:50 Sufinsil wrote:
Blizzard granting IP licenses to map creators, look out for map makers. Diamond has me on skype. We can talk and clear this up. What is an IP license? Interlectual Property license, they own the "code" and license it to "you" Oh cool, i didn't know we got this We don't. I didn't think so. Maybe with enough community pressure, we can help you guys get the IP licenses so you have a leg to stand on? B-Net forums better place, maybe?
Highly unlikely - this doesn't benefit Blizzard at all so I doubt they'd do it.
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EPT
