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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:07 dUTtrOACh wrote: I didn't think so. Maybe with enough community pressure, we can help you guys get the IP licenses so you have a leg to stand on? B-Net forums better place, maybe? Maybe not. You are one optimistic person. | ||
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
The complete fluff and lack of knowledge of the people talking for mlg are more than enough to disgust mrme for a long time, even if this wasn't as shitty as it is already. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
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zawk9
United States427 Posts
Obviously not likely to happen either, but at least theirs a smidgen of a hope for this, yes? EDIT AGAIN: Or maybe work with the community itself to prevent this nonsense? Doesn't seem like MLG is very responsive, sadly. | ||
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Eisregen
Germany967 Posts
That was how we handled the stuff back then. Modding another guy's work without asking was out of question. | ||
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Thauleris
16 Posts
I'd assume that Blizz has the legal right to your maps anyway, not the map creator, since it was created using their tools. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:27 Thauleris wrote: Make a map that doesn't have the problems that need to be edited out then. To be fair the original Metropolis does not have the issue, it's the Blizzard version that has the issue (which MLG uses)..... | ||
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Narfinger
53 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:29 Diamond wrote: To be fair the original Metropolis does not have the issue, it's the Blizzard version that has the issue (which MLG uses)..... Really? Wasn't there a game with Huk where he the whole deal was that he had less FPS than he is used to in some GSL game? To the Topic: Can't we just solve this easily? Why not ask MLG directly as a mapmaker what is up with this change and try to help them with the FPS issue. Perhaps they are just unaware how "offensive" this might look. In the end I am not sure what to think. Mapmakers should be asked for the sole reason that otherwise it might be very confusing which version is the "correct" one and of course the whole own creation thing. But for some reason I can't make myself believe this is a big deal. Further edit: After thinking about it a bit more I know why I don't see a big deal. The reason is simple: All this is going on for ages. Every tournament changes the map they are playing on. Might it be simple depots or cross spawns or gold or whatever we have. And honestly I don't even know what the differences are anymore because nobody cares enough to explain it. Everything is tournament branded without any regard to the viewer. Everything is changed without any regards to the original design of the map or anything. But I still believe that mapmakers should first talk to MLG to let them known that not every change is ok with them and what is ok and what not. | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:15 FairForever wrote: Highly unlikely - this doesn't benefit Blizzard at all so I doubt they'd do it. IP sure as hell won't benefit the users either. It's a map for a video game. If this isn't trolling to find a small issue to be up in arms about, I don't know what is. The islands on that map were god awful and had no place being there anyways. It's as if Dustin Browder invented the map. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:31 stevarius wrote: IP sure as hell won't benefit the users either. It's a map for a video game. If this isn't trolling to find a small issue to be up in arms about, I don't know what is. The islands on that map were god awful and had no place being there anyways. It's as if Dustin Browder invented the map. My opinion without any evidence to back it up is the truth, listen to me... just stfu. | ||
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GhettoSheep
United States150 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_(copyright_law) | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
That's how it's always been. There's no need for any form of entitlement by map makers when you're essentially just doing charity work for fun. IMO if you want complete control over your maps, then don't agree to hand it over to any tournaments. It's that simple. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:31 Narfinger wrote: Really? Wasn't there a game with Huk where he the whole deal was that he had less FPS than he is used to in some GSL game? Oh the FPS issue. Yeah LS released a Metropolis Lite on Korean Battle.net (with islands) like 3-4 months ago? When we used Metro in the Korean Weekly, it's what the players used. If they had simply consulted him about the FPS issues, I am sure he would have been happy to hand over the lite version to use. On May 12 2012 07:33 TedJustice wrote: When you make a map, you're putting it out there to be used however people want. That's how it's always been. There's no need for any form of entitlement by map makers when you're essentially just doing charity work for fun. IMO if you want complete control over your maps, then don't agree to hand it over to any tournaments. It's that simple. Actually that's inaccurate. In Brood War mapmakers were paid full time wages and hired direclty in by KeSPA. | ||
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Rombur
Belgium107 Posts
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:32 sAsImre wrote: My opinion without any evidence to back it up is the truth, listen to me... just stfu. You really made a post just to be an asshole? Please enlighten me as to how the users of these maps would, in any way, benefit from the mapmakers gaining IP rights to maps? If I don't recall, these maps are also made using a tool that they do not own and hosted on equipment they do not own, etc. Their work helps shift the game and tournaments in a different direction over time, but the reasons these maps even exist is because Blizzard allows it. I don't see anything wrong with MLG modifying a map and I don't see the reason why everyone is so butthurt about it. Either way, MLG did not design the map and anyone with a brain knows that maps that make it to the ladder get modified in some silly ways. I couldn't care any less whether someone asked for permission or not. A real reason to be up in arms about a map is that an entity modified it and claimed it as their own work of art. What the hell do you expect to happen when you put something on the internet without strict DRM to control its usage? | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:33 Diamond wrote: Actually that's inaccurate. In Brood War mapmakers were paid full time wages and hired direclty in by KeSPA. Regardless, when someone comissions something, it should become theirs to use as they please. If you're getting paid for the map, that's a commission. If you're not, then it's charity work and you're volunteering to give your map to the tournament/organization/whatever. In neither case does it make any sense for the original designer to have any input on how the map is used unless the client wants their input. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:38 stevarius wrote: You really made a post just to be an asshole? Please enlighten me as to how the users of these maps would, in any way, benefit from the mapmakers gaining IP rights to maps? If I don't recall, these maps are also made using a tool that they do not own and hosted on equipment they do not own, etc. Their work helps shift the game and tournaments in a different direction over time, but the reasons these maps even exist is because Blizzard allows it. I don't see anything wrong with MLG modifying a map and I don't see the reason why everyone is so butthurt about it. Either way, MLG did not design the map and anyone with a brain knows that maps that make it to the ladder get modified in some silly ways. I couldn't care any less whether someone asked for permission or not. A real reason to be up in arms about a map is that an entity modified it and claimed it as their own work of art. What the hell do you expect to happen when you put something on the internet without strict DRM to control its usage? Because MLG are ignorants about mapmaking. That's just like asking your doctor to be your lawyer. The same. They don't know a fuck about map making and the only ppl able to improve a map are those who created or practiced hardcore on them at a good level. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
There is no special degree that makes you a mapmaker and another person not. You might have great ideas, but you don't have some magic ability to know what is better for them. It's a very arrogant stance to take when you say "I know what's best for you." | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:41 sAsImre wrote: Because MLG are ignorants about mapmaking. That's just like asking your doctor to be your lawyer. The same. They don't know a fuck about map making and the only ppl able to improve a map are those who created or practiced hardcore on them at a good level. *facepalm* You state I don't provide any backing for my opinion on mapmaker rights and you post this in response to my post? Are you kidding me? If I said monkeys deserve bananas for mapmaking, I don't think my response would be any less coherent than your silly metaphor about MLG trying to do something they're incapable of when you have no proof to show that. So far, I feel that MLG has the capabilities of improving maps by ensuring their maps don't allow pylon or building wall-offs, within reason of course, at the bottom of ramps leading to natural expansions nor do they keep features which are pure shit in their maps(the islands on metro). Those islands have added no value to that map, besides that hilarious ass game on the Day9 cannon funday monday. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:49 stevarius wrote: *facepalm* You state I don't provide any backing for my opinion on mapmaker rights and you post this in response to my post? Are you kidding me? If I said monkeys deserve bananas for mapmaking, I don't think my response would be any less coherent than your silly metaphor about MLG trying to do something they're incapable of when you have no proof to show that. So far, I feel that MLG has the capabilities of improving maps by ensuring their maps don't allow pylon or building wall-offs, within reason of course, at the bottom of ramps leading to natural expansions nor do they keep features which are pure shit in their maps(the islands on metro). Those islands have added no value to that map, besides that hilarious ass game on the Day9 cannon funday monday. Most mapmakers do the depot'ing, it's only Blizzard that refuses to use it. Also the islands had purpose, just not in every game, which most maps have features like that, that rarely get used, but it's not a reason to can it. | ||
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