EPTsounds like they have no idea what real world is like but they think they know
Destiny and Quantic part ways - Page 93
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Keep this civil, guys | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
sounds like they have no idea what real world is like but they think they know | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:01 Doodsmack wrote: Did you email the sponsors and if not, do you support the practice of emailing sponsors in a situation like this? No I didn't, and yes, I support it. On May 05 2012 04:02 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote: This is the only response you're getting to one of those "pick apart the entire thing sentence-by-sentence but ignore the whole" dissertations. I contradicted virtually everything you said and you have no response, I think that's pretty telling. As I said your post was 90% straw men, it contained very little meaning at all. Since you seem unwilling to defend that post, let's start over again. Remove all the straw men and just give us your main points. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:02 Chocobo wrote: I never argued against freedom of speech. I am 100% fine with people hating Destiny. They can start Facebook groups about how much Destiny sucks, they can collect screenshots of him using bad language and make posters out of them, and carry anti-Destiny signs to tournaments. But what's fucked up is when the vocal minority goes directly to the sponsors, tries to create the image that they are a larger group and speak for everyone in the community, and uses the tactics of "do something to hurt this guy I don't like or else I'm going to stir up a shitstorm". Suppose you know a guy in real life and he's just an unpleasant person. He's a mean alcoholic, he has insane political views, and he's just a scumbag in so many different ways. Do you A) choose to not spend time around him, or B) go to his place of employment and tell his boss that he sucks and ought to be fired, and that you and your friends will publicly protest in front of their building until something is done? If you chose B, then you're as big of a scumbag as he is. "Vocal minority" honestly doesn't mean shit to me anymore. As long as people follow a standard of Player -> Team -> Sponsor then I'm fine with it. If Quantic doesn't want to take action, then I see nothing wrong with informing Razor that the teams and players they are supporting is resulting in you pulling your support for them. In your analogy, if this mean alcoholic is doing something that could potentially damage the integrity of the business he's a part of, or their financiers or stockholders or whomever(in the actual case this is replaced by team and sponsors) then I see no issue with informing them of the impact this person is having on you specifically. This is particularly the case when such an attitude that someone has can potentially affect the industry as a whole or when they're a public figure(regardless of whether or not they want to be). | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote: No, people are disagreeing with Quantic's promotion of someone who uses this type of language. You're missing the point. Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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Detwiler
United States239 Posts
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DxT.SuSaNoO
United States23 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:10 Silvertine wrote: No I didn't, and yes, I support it. I contradicted virtually everything you said and you have no response, I think that's pretty telling. As I said your post was 90% straw men, it contained very little meaning at all. Since you seem unwilling to defend that post, let's start over again. Remove all the straw men and just give us your main points. If you took no meaning from my post and saw only fallacies, well, I am afraid I am not licensed to teach English. | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:11 Tyrant0 wrote: Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. That's like saying don't listen to Rush Limbaugh because he called someone a slut. He did it, and he made national headlines, had sponsors pull out, and forced an apology after weeks of trying to be a hard ass about it. | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:13 adrenaLinG wrote: That's like saying don't listen to Rush Limbaugh because he called someone a slut. He did it, and he made national headlines, had sponsors pull out, and forced an apology after weeks of trying to be a hard ass about it. even Limbaugh wouldn't drop 'N' bomb on air he would get shot the next day | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:13 adrenaLinG wrote: That's like saying don't listen to Rush Limbaugh because he called someone a slut. He did it, and he made national headlines, had sponsors pull out, and forced an apology after weeks of trying to be a hard ass about it. And apparently thousands of people enjoy hearing it regardless. As a Liberal I'm happy he got knocked down a notch cause his ratings are no where near what his sponsors pay him for, but I don't care what he says. People enjoy listening to him spout the most borderline offensive comments, just as they enjoy watching Destiny rage and type offensive names and racial slurs. If you want someone to blame, blame the people who listen/watch. They're the only reason these kind of personalities exist. And it's entirely fine that they do. You don't have to tune in/watch the stream. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:05 Tyrant0 wrote: You disagree with Destiny. Not Quantic nor their sponsors. And Destiny is a part of? Quantic. Quantic is sponsored by? Razor. Not sure what you were pointing out in this post. Razor is financially supporting Destiny through Quantic(money going to them), if your money goes to Razor, and some of their money(whatever small amount) goes to Quantic. I think it's fine to let Destiny's behavior is preventing you from supporting him(He likely won't care) and from there go up a level to the top. | ||
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spancho
United States161 Posts
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dronefarm
United States260 Posts
A lot of people believe that using racial slurs like this in game doesn't mean much. If you really think that, go up to 5 random black/asian/hispanic/arab/etc people, look them in the eye and call them a chink, gook, spic, nigger, etc and then tell them that it's ok, you don't really mean it that way. Come back and tell us if that person was offended, or angry, or hurt. My guess is you didn't have the balls to go face one of those people and say that in the first place because you know it's fucked up behavior, and you're only doing it online because you don't have to face them. Dismiss it all you want as people being to sensitive, until you're one of those minorities getting called those dehumanizing names. People who don't really get offended don't know what it's like to be offended; don't put your ideas of what's acceptable on other people because you can't understand what they're feeling. Anyone using this kind of language should be rediculed and called out for their behavior, weather your a no name guy in a bar, a multimillion dollar athlete, or a kid who plays starcraft. So, should people have gone to razer to complain about this? No, that's really bad. Should Quantic have dismissed (or at least punished/fined) Destiny for acting like a dickhead and defending his behavior? Absolutely. Congrats to quantic and for people who are defending destiny's behavior, grow up and act like a responsible person who cares about other people's feelings. | ||
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teeeckskay
United States58 Posts
But there's always good culture and bad culture. And the fact that isolationist online communities (like gaming forums) are some of the few places where you'll find a strong majority in open defense of hateful racist speech (for whatever justifications, valid or not) is just incidental to this in-breeding of ideas and behaviors that comes along with being apart of any isolated community. And the thing is almost nobody wants eSports to be an isolated community. We want this to blow up, right? We want it to be loved by tons of people and assimilated into bigger demographics. You can't be isolated and assimilated. And if there has to be some sort of cultural give-and-take, it should be easy to abandon things that are universally (outside of our tiny little battle.net bubble) seen negatively and which don't add anything to our culture anyways. And especially at least the people that represent our community should make an effort to represent us positively, because any random individual bnet ladder player just isn't as significant on the bigger stage. We can't make anyone do anything, but a good bit of the community as well as teams and sponsors might want to disassociate from individuals like Destiny whose behavior on a large scale "misrepresents" us and what we're trying to do here. And I put "misrepresents" in quotes, because really it's arguable whether or not that's an actual misrepresentation. It certainly isn't how I think alot of us would like to be seen. But in the US at least, many gamers and most non-gamers (and, I'd imagine, sponsors and companies who think of supporting eSports as sort of a gamble) think of competitive gamers as an awful community—one that is rude and barely socialized (which has an intuitive link with talking the way that Destiny does, as well as feeling entitled to act that way and thinking that it's socially acceptable) in addition to whatever other nerd stigmas exist. And that's ostensibly a big part of the reason it's hard to make eSports viable here compared to something like the Korean StarCraft scene where progamers are well-regarded and more universally liked. As a gamer, you just are who are. As a Professional, you have other standards and responsibilities to uphold set forth by your team and sponsors, but even just ignoring that.... We don't need to mess with individualism or personalities for the most part. But stuff like having long unkempt hair and speech laden with words like "own" and "imba" and drinking 2 Monsters and 6 cans of Dr. Pepper a day is probably a lot easier for people stop caring so much about and judging harshly than frequent rage-filled tirades full of racial slurs, for instance. And we do need people to judge gamers less negatively if we want this community to grow and flourish. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:11 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote: If you took no meaning from my post and saw only fallacies, well, I am afraid I am not licensed to teach English. "I give up" Fair enough. | ||
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ClydeFrogSC2
United States29 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote: Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. This. It's the same thing as parent's finding out their kids are listening to "satanic" music and whatnot. Just don't listen to it. It's just dumb that we as a community are debating over words. These words are offensive yes, and they don't have their place out in the open, but seriously the extent this community can blow things out of proportion and just yell and scream about things that either they are not as informed about or that they (some of us) are not mature to talk about is baffling and scary. I really hope that we as a community get a wake up call soon, because now we're all kind of in the wrong | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:22 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote: It's the same thing as parent's finding out their kids are listening to "satanic" music and whatnot. How is it anything like that? | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:14 Govou wrote: even Limbaugh wouldn't drop 'N' bomb on air he would get shot the next day He wouldn't drop the N bomb on air, but he would imply the next most racist ideas that are arguably much more offensive than simply saying the N word, but only gets away with it because it's open to interpretation. It's simply the politics of interpretation; leaving yourself a ladder to escape from every hole you dig when people who disagree with you hop on your ass. I can't wait until professional players pick up on this and put more thought into how they verbally abuse others, because that's perfectly acceptable UNTIL they say the word. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
I rarely disagree with TL mods, but in this case the mod should have noticed the potential for an internet witch hunt, and protected the professional player from attack by dozens of people instead of getting into a petty squabble with him. The press from this event is obviously bad for all of esports. This could have been left in WardenSC's BM qq thread. Now a top team suffers bad press, not from the thread, but from the pitchforking and escalation caused by these whiteknight types and even escalated by a TL moderator who failed to remain an impartial moderator and got pulled into a flamewar. The Team Liquid community has never disappointed me as much as right now. | ||
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