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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs.
User was banned for this post.
Can someone tell me about the incontrol thing this guy was talking about? It sounds really awful.
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I'm pretty sure Incontrol never made a porn star cry....just a gut feeling but it sounds like bullshit to me. Willing to see any proof of it though.
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On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs.
User was banned for this post.
Completely agree, if these white knights want a great community, go ahead, most streams i've watched of top players have at one point or another said something that can been seen as an 'offensive' term to a certain race/gender whatever. They are as 'bad' as what destiny has said, after all, we don't want discrimination, right?
But they won't, because they believe they speak for the entire community when they speak as well as knowing what the communitys best interests are. It's pretty embarrassing to read some of the posts against destiny in all honesty, because you have a personal vendetta against him doesn't mean you should take such low blows.
However if you are trying to create this eutopia that you have envisioned, you're going to be emailing a lot of sponsors  . Enjoy your community! xddd
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On May 05 2012 04:34 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:25 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:11 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:05 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:02 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. A lot of people choose not to support companies that take certain stances on issues. In a market where there is a lot of comparable competition, supporting the organizations that your consumers support can be the deciding factor in a purchase. It's about not wanting to support a company that finances a group you disagree with, the market for gaming gear is pretty competitive, there are plenty of comparable options, wanting to support a team can make the difference. You disagree with Destiny. Not Quantic nor their sponsors. No, people are disagreeing with Quantic's promotion of someone who uses this type of language. You're missing the point. Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. Way to fucking strawman my argument, now I know you really have no point to make. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that Quantic would do that, but they are endorsing Destiny by proxy BY SUPPORTING AND SIGNING HIM TO THEIR TEAM. You're obviously too naive to understand what signing a player to a team means. Strawman looked pretty relevant to me. Destiny says a racial slur, absolutely nothing happens other than people going out of their way to be offended and uproot an entire sponsor from a team. I could repeat my point, again, in response to your restatement, but then we'd just go in circles, so I'll simply inform you that my point is behind you on the wall, above your head.
Racial slurs are used to get specific people offended. Why are you surprised people were working to get Destiny removed? Your point is nonexistent. Don't bring up ridiculous assumptions like "WELL YOU MUST THINK QUANTIC IS GOING TO POST GOOK ALL OVER THEIR SITE BECAUSE OF HIM" You're a moron if you are going to use that statement as reinforcement.
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Well I can tell players and casters are definitely going to be thinking twice about what they say from now on. If they don't then the next head on the pike will be theirs.
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On May 05 2012 04:04 Kickboxer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:48 Smackzilla wrote:On May 05 2012 03:42 Kickboxer wrote:
It's absolutely amazing how Destiny didn't offer the standard idiotic Woods / Spitzer / Gibson style "apology".
As someone who'll take integrity over political correctness any day I applaud this from the depths of my heart. Dude, what's your measure of integrity? If Tiger or Spitzer hadn't apologized, would you respect them? How exactly are you relating them to Destiny? The bottom-line is that a jerk who doesn't apologize is still a jerk, and one who will likely never change. My measure of integrity, and I hope everyone else's, is not being a hypocrite. If I have to choose between a honest jerk and a two-faced polite person I'm taking the jerk ten times out of ten.
Sorry, I'd say there's a lot more to integrity than avoiding hypocrisy. Not changing your position on an issue or never admitting a mistake, doesn't mean you're honest. It could just mean you're oblivious, stupid, stubborn, etc. It certainly is no guarantee that you have any integrity.
On the flip side, people who do recognize mistakes and apologize, are quite capable of having integrity.
So seriously, how do you know Destiny has integrity and Tiger does not? It seems to me it's just what you want to believe, because the only thing you seem to be going on is whether or not they apologized.
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On May 05 2012 04:38 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:27 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:24 Silvertine wrote:On May 05 2012 04:22 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:
It's the same thing as parent's finding out their kids are listening to "satanic" music and whatnot. How is it anything like that? Because it's a subculture that people get offended at/ overreact. What, people who use the terms "gook" and "nigger"? I don't know if that could be considered a subculture. There is absolutely no logical opposition to "satanic" music, it's just a silly genre which does nothing to harm anyone. I don't know how you can compare that to hurling racist terms at people, especially at the specific ethnic groups for which the slurs were created. Show nested quote +A lot of people see language in a very black and white way, and it can actually serve to perpetuate ignorance and anger at certain words or phrases. How is it "black and white" to consider racist terms racist? There is absolutely no basis for your argument. It's simple: go to the experts. Try to find a linguist in the entire world who will argue that "nigger" and "gook" are not inherently racist terms. Show nested quote +I agree with Destiny in that words can mean different things and that you shouldn't have to censor yourself, but at the same time he should've known better than to poke the embers. He doesn't have to censor himself, that choice is his and he clearly decided not to. But you don't have the right to say whatever the fuck you want and not have to deal with the consequences.
I completely agree with you on all these points. Just words overtime lose their initial meaning and garner new slang, and through the internet that process is sped up. Im not trying to give excuses, just there's a lot of similarity with this argument of offensive language with "multiple meanings" to the argument of songs expressing ideas like "incest is good for you."
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On May 05 2012 04:39 Leth0 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Incontrol never made a porn star cry....just a gut feeling but it sounds like bullshit to me. Willing to see any proof of it though.
State of the Game, Mia Rose, etc etc
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On May 05 2012 04:40 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:34 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:25 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:11 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:05 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:02 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. A lot of people choose not to support companies that take certain stances on issues. In a market where there is a lot of comparable competition, supporting the organizations that your consumers support can be the deciding factor in a purchase. It's about not wanting to support a company that finances a group you disagree with, the market for gaming gear is pretty competitive, there are plenty of comparable options, wanting to support a team can make the difference. You disagree with Destiny. Not Quantic nor their sponsors. No, people are disagreeing with Quantic's promotion of someone who uses this type of language. You're missing the point. Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. Way to fucking strawman my argument, now I know you really have no point to make. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that Quantic would do that, but they are endorsing Destiny by proxy BY SUPPORTING AND SIGNING HIM TO THEIR TEAM. You're obviously too naive to understand what signing a player to a team means. Strawman looked pretty relevant to me. Destiny says a racial slur, absolutely nothing happens other than people going out of their way to be offended and uproot an entire sponsor from a team. I could repeat my point, again, in response to your restatement, but then we'd just go in circles, so I'll simply inform you that my point is behind you on the wall, above your head. Racial slurs are used to get specific people offended. Why are you surprised people were working to get Destiny removed? Your point is nonexistent. Don't bring up ridiculous assumptions like "WELL YOU MUST THINK QUANTIC IS GOING TO POST GOOK ALL OVER THEIR SITE BECAUSE OF HIM" You're a moron if you are going to use that statement as reinforcement.
If a sponsor sponsors a team that has a player on it, that doesn't mean that the sponsor agrees 100% with everything that the team and its players do.
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On May 05 2012 04:42 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:39 Leth0 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Incontrol never made a porn star cry....just a gut feeling but it sounds like bullshit to me. Willing to see any proof of it though. State of the Game, Mia Rose, etc etc
I watched that state of the game. Don't remember anybody crying.
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On May 05 2012 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:31 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs. LOL. I agree with your sarcasm, but the people who flip out have a point, even if it is a bit over the top. They just wanna see e-sports legitimized, not relegated to internet sub-culture like some people in the fighting community are trying to keep it. This is what I don't understand at all, guys. Does it really validate you to be able to use language like "Rape that fucking bitch!" or "Taking dumb nigger risks"?
I never use that language that don't approve of it when anyone else says it. But something I'm very much in favor of is for people to be allowed to use that language if they want to, without fear of losing their employment because of someone running to their employer and making threats.
Everyone seems to be focusing on Destiny's actions, what he should and shouldn't be able to do without repercussions, what is and isn't OK for someone of his standing. Well, I think people should be considering what is and isn't appropriate for the "I'm offended!" group to be doing.
If you're offended by something or you don't like something, don't watch it. How difficult is that?
Why is there any need to do something more? Why can't you leave Destiny and his stream alone, why is there a need to get revenge on him?
How is it the right thing to do, to run to someone's employer and stir up shit and try to get him fired?
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People answer me this. Would anyone scream out nigger or any kind of offensive word in middle of shopping mall so everyone could hear it, or any other place where 5000 people is listening to u. would u scream out nigger in the subway to your friend with intension to offend him when u have 5 black people sitting next to u. even a 10 year old kid would know that’s disrespectful. Even if those 5 people didn’t get offended I don’t any still would say it would be right screaming out that word in public like that. I would like to hear someone try to rationalize or explain them self out of that situation. No I don’t have anything against black people I was just screaming at my friend?. Or sry I didn’t know u guys where sitting here?
Doesn’t matter how hard u try I think most people know that u did wrong in that situation even if your intention wasn’t to offend them.
In the end some people need to understand that even it might look like u are alone when u are streaming or playing over the internet there are allot of people that watch u if u are a professional gamer.
Is that destiny decided to offensively express him while he knows 2k people are watching him and that’s stating something. You might be comfortable when u are at home streaming thinking u are alone but u are not. He doesn’t seem to be able to acknowledge that fact and starts blaming it on other stuff.
Internet is a media to be able to express your opinions but it’s also a media that allows u to be in the public from anywhere in the world. So as Quantic Destiny I believe he did wrong expressing himself like that on his streams and games but as an individual he is entitled to do whatever he wants.
So the questions u should ask yourself if u believe a professional athlete or gamer should be able to offensively using downgrading words to their opponent when the represent sponsors and teams?. The community seem to be clear that they don’t and I fully agree. Do I believe Destiny is the only one that should be hold accountable for this . My answer is No!.
I think EG should clean up there act on Idra. I think every team should make it clear to their players that they are not allowed to shout out words like fag,nigger ect when they are repesennting there team in sc2 games. They can do whatever they want on their free time or when they are alone. If destiny likes to rage on ladder his welcome doing it on a smurf account but I don’t se the point being like that when his representing his team.
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This isn't just about esports and sponsors.
Believe it or not I have a lot MORE fun when my opponents on ladder are NOT constantly going "EZ EZ Faggot U mad bro? U mad bro? U mad bro?" and trying to generally incite as much rage as they can. Yet tons of kids copy this because it's the cool, badass, BM thing to do now.
This has nothing to do with esports. After I run into an opponent like that that I start to question why the fuck am I hanging out in this toxic community in the first place.
If deliberately calling people gooks, faggots, niggers, to be as hurtful as possible with your insults is 'gaming culture' then fuck gaming culture.
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On May 05 2012 04:40 Nyct0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs.
User was banned for this post. Completely agree, if these white knights want a great community, go ahead, most streams i've watched of top players have at one point or another said something that can been seen as an 'offensive' term to a certain race/gender whatever. They are as 'bad' as what destiny has said, after all, we don't want discrimination, right? But they won't, because they believe they speak for the entire community when they speak as well as knowing what the communitys best interests are. It's pretty embarrassing to read some of the posts against destiny in all honesty, because you have a personal vendetta against him doesn't mean you should take such low blows. However if you are trying to create this eutopia that you have envisioned, you're going to be emailing a lot of sponsors . Enjoy your community! xddd
There is a significant difference between simply being a potty mouth and blatant racist to the point where you justify the use of racial slurs to hurt others. Destiny continues his tough guy act and the longer he remains arrogant the more he will suffer for it.
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On May 05 2012 04:42 dmasterding wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:40 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:34 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:25 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:11 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:05 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:02 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. A lot of people choose not to support companies that take certain stances on issues. In a market where there is a lot of comparable competition, supporting the organizations that your consumers support can be the deciding factor in a purchase. It's about not wanting to support a company that finances a group you disagree with, the market for gaming gear is pretty competitive, there are plenty of comparable options, wanting to support a team can make the difference. You disagree with Destiny. Not Quantic nor their sponsors. No, people are disagreeing with Quantic's promotion of someone who uses this type of language. You're missing the point. Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. Way to fucking strawman my argument, now I know you really have no point to make. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that Quantic would do that, but they are endorsing Destiny by proxy BY SUPPORTING AND SIGNING HIM TO THEIR TEAM. You're obviously too naive to understand what signing a player to a team means. Strawman looked pretty relevant to me. Destiny says a racial slur, absolutely nothing happens other than people going out of their way to be offended and uproot an entire sponsor from a team. I could repeat my point, again, in response to your restatement, but then we'd just go in circles, so I'll simply inform you that my point is behind you on the wall, above your head. Racial slurs are used to get specific people offended. Why are you surprised people were working to get Destiny removed? Your point is nonexistent. Don't bring up ridiculous assumptions like "WELL YOU MUST THINK QUANTIC IS GOING TO POST GOOK ALL OVER THEIR SITE BECAUSE OF HIM" You're a moron if you are going to use that statement as reinforcement. If a sponsor sponsors a team that has a player on it, that doesn't mean that the sponsor agrees 100% with everything that the team and its players do.
Of course it doesn't mean 100%, but what else is Destiny known for in this community? He doesn't have incredible tournament results, he doesn't have his own shows, he doesn't commentate for leagues. We know him for his streaming, and his language on his stream. Quantic signed him based on that.
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On May 05 2012 04:29 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs. Yeah all of these are the same situation as Destiny's. You should have made your first post in the UFO thread or something, you obviously have no comprehension of relevancy.
the point is all these people said something very offensive just as destiny did. Not one of them has ever been witch hunted for it because they are the heros of the scene. Its 100% BS, the ONLY reason destiny was attacked the way he was is because people dont like him as much as they like huk or idra. Ive seen idra call people faggot all the damn time on stream and he has NEVER gotten in trouble from the community, nobody has gone and started a witch hunt to contact EGs sponsors over it. If TL is going to be some giant white night protecting the world from bad language then they need to take down their heros as well as their villains... have a stranded and stick to it
that being said i dont think any of those people should have anything done to them just like i feel destiny should of been left alone, but if TL is going to stand on some damn high ground they better not let anyone get away with it.
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On May 05 2012 04:41 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:38 Silvertine wrote:On May 05 2012 04:27 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:24 Silvertine wrote:On May 05 2012 04:22 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:
It's the same thing as parent's finding out their kids are listening to "satanic" music and whatnot. How is it anything like that? Because it's a subculture that people get offended at/ overreact. What, people who use the terms "gook" and "nigger"? I don't know if that could be considered a subculture. There is absolutely no logical opposition to "satanic" music, it's just a silly genre which does nothing to harm anyone. I don't know how you can compare that to hurling racist terms at people, especially at the specific ethnic groups for which the slurs were created. A lot of people see language in a very black and white way, and it can actually serve to perpetuate ignorance and anger at certain words or phrases. How is it "black and white" to consider racist terms racist? There is absolutely no basis for your argument. It's simple: go to the experts. Try to find a linguist in the entire world who will argue that "nigger" and "gook" are not inherently racist terms. I agree with Destiny in that words can mean different things and that you shouldn't have to censor yourself, but at the same time he should've known better than to poke the embers. He doesn't have to censor himself, that choice is his and he clearly decided not to. But you don't have the right to say whatever the fuck you want and not have to deal with the consequences. I completely agree with you on all these points. Just words overtime lose their initial meaning and garner new slang, and through the internet that process is sped up. Im not trying to give excuses, just there's a lot of similarity with this argument of offensive language with "multiple meanings" to the argument of songs expressing ideas like "incest is good for you."
I appreciate your response.
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On May 05 2012 04:42 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:39 Leth0 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Incontrol never made a porn star cry....just a gut feeling but it sounds like bullshit to me. Willing to see any proof of it though. State of the Game, Mia Rose, etc etc
Wow, what did he say? Or if you could direct me to the right state of the game, i'll see for myself. Time to google Mia Rose anyways :D
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the way i see it, if you don't act like an ass then reddit won't lynch you. players that can't act mature enough to represent a sponsored team shouldn't be in that position in the first place.
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On May 05 2012 04:43 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:31 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs. LOL. I agree with your sarcasm, but the people who flip out have a point, even if it is a bit over the top. They just wanna see e-sports legitimized, not relegated to internet sub-culture like some people in the fighting community are trying to keep it. This is what I don't understand at all, guys. Does it really validate you to be able to use language like "Rape that fucking bitch!" or "Taking dumb nigger risks"? I never use that language that don't approve of it when anyone else says it. But something I'm very much in favor of is for people to be allowed to use that language if they want to, without fear of losing their employment because of someone running to their employer and making threats. Everyone seems to be focusing on Destiny's actions, what he should and shouldn't be able to do without repercussions, what is and isn't OK for someone of his standing. Well, I think people should be considering what is and isn't appropriate for the "I'm offended!" group to be doing. If you're offended by something or you don't like something, don't watch it. How difficult is that? Why is there any need to do something more? Why can't you leave Destiny and his stream alone, why is there a need to get revenge on him? How is it the right thing to do, to run to someone's employer and stir up shit and try to get him fired?
No one explicitly tried to get Destiny fired. If Destiny simply apologized and cleaned up his act people would have moved on.
As for why it's fine to go to sponsors? Perpetuation of normalized marginalization...blah blah blah immediately going to be met with "BUT WORDS CHANGE AND YOU SHOULDN'T GIVE THEM POWER!" blah blah blah...been done to death in this thread. Either you empathize with the minorities or you don't. I can't convince you to feel empathy on an internet forum.
Edit: Also, iNcontroL never made a Mia Rose even come close to tears. If that was the drunk episode then I actually remember Mia firing back at him in good form, everyone was just too drunk to realize how snarky she was.
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EPT
