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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 04:11 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:05 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:02 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. A lot of people choose not to support companies that take certain stances on issues. In a market where there is a lot of comparable competition, supporting the organizations that your consumers support can be the deciding factor in a purchase. It's about not wanting to support a company that finances a group you disagree with, the market for gaming gear is pretty competitive, there are plenty of comparable options, wanting to support a team can make the difference. You disagree with Destiny. Not Quantic nor their sponsors. No, people are disagreeing with Quantic's promotion of someone who uses this type of language. You're missing the point. Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top.
Way to fucking strawman my argument, now I know you really have no point to make. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that Quantic would do that, but they are endorsing Destiny by proxy BY SUPPORTING AND SIGNING HIM TO THEIR TEAM. You're obviously too naive to understand what signing a player to a team means.
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Funny that all the morally outraged people here didn't feel the need to email quantic's sponsors right when they signed destiny, but now that some drama got stirred up on the forums they can't wait to go to the sponsors. They didn't even give Quantic a chance to respond, they just stuck the knife right in their back. These two things just show that all the white knights are really after is a bit of drama and tattle taling.
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On May 05 2012 04:11 Detwiler wrote:
All this defence of destiny is stupid. How bout we we do an experiment? Everyone throw out the phrase "fucking niggers" at work if front of customers or management and see what happens kay? Oh wait thats right you get fired! The only people who dont understand this simple fact of life are the children on this forum who have never had a job.
What if your line of work is to be an entertainer? Oh look, suddenly it's different, isn't it.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Chris Rock or some other comedian has used that exact phrase while at work, with an audience to see it. Trey Parker and Matt Stone have also used very similar language in South Park.
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On May 05 2012 04:24 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:14 Govou wrote:On May 05 2012 04:13 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 04:11 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:05 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:02 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. A lot of people choose not to support companies that take certain stances on issues. In a market where there is a lot of comparable competition, supporting the organizations that your consumers support can be the deciding factor in a purchase. It's about not wanting to support a company that finances a group you disagree with, the market for gaming gear is pretty competitive, there are plenty of comparable options, wanting to support a team can make the difference. You disagree with Destiny. Not Quantic nor their sponsors. No, people are disagreeing with Quantic's promotion of someone who uses this type of language. You're missing the point. Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. That's like saying don't listen to Rush Limbaugh because he called someone a slut. He did it, and he made national headlines, had sponsors pull out, and forced an apology after weeks of trying to be a hard ass about it. even Limbaugh wouldn't drop 'N' bomb on air he would get shot the next day He wouldn't drop the N bomb on air, but he would imply the next most racist ideas that are arguably much more offensive than simply saying the N word, but only gets away with it because it's open to interpretation. It's simply the politics of interpretation; leaving yourself a ladder to escape from every hole you dig when people who disagree with you hop on your ass. I can't wait until professional players pick up on this and put more thought into how they verbally abuse others, because that's perfectly acceptable UNTIL they say the word.
sure go ahead and do it. why be stupid and use racial slurs? and why defend it?
if you are smart enough to not get caught, be my guest.
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On May 05 2012 04:24 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:22 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:
It's the same thing as parent's finding out their kids are listening to "satanic" music and whatnot. How is it anything like that?
Because it's a subculture that people get offended at/ overreact. A lot of people see language in a very black and white way, and it can actually serve to perpetuate ignorance and anger at certain words or phrases. I agree with Destiny in that words can mean different things and that you shouldn't have to censor yourself, but at the same time he should've known better than to poke the embers.
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Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs.
User was banned for this post.
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On May 05 2012 04:25 Crownlol wrote:
If the rumor that Destiny is quitting SC2 over this is true, you pitchforkers and the admin that banned him should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.
I rarely disagree with TL mods, but in this case the mod should have noticed the potential for an internet witch hunt, and protected the professional player from attack by dozens of people instead of getting into a petty squabble with him.
The press from this event is obviously bad for all of esports. This could have been left in WardenSC's BM qq thread. Now a top team suffers bad press, not from the thread, but from the pitchforking and escalation caused by these whiteknight types and even escalated by a TL moderator who failed to remain an impartial moderator and got pulled into a flamewar.
The Team Liquid community has never disappointed me as much as right now.
Why? Pro's get banned in real life for being unprofessional all the time? Go away into your fairly land of unreasonable logic and out of control public figures. This is a business move that's best for everyone. It's not "what" he said, it's how he carries himself and the impression he makes on his spectators for his sponsors, who sponsor him because they BELIEVE in him. If he continued to be like how he is and they supported him, that absolutely speaks to the sponsors standards and morals. This is just a great move for everyone, time to find a new "entertainer" . Plenty out there bro.
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On May 05 2012 04:25 Crownlol wrote:
If the rumor that Destiny is quitting SC2 over this is true, you pitchforkers and the admin that banned him should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.
I rarely disagree with TL mods, but in this case the mod should have noticed the potential for an internet witch hunt, and protected the professional player from attack by dozens of people instead of getting into a petty squabble with him.
The press from this event is obviously bad for all of esports. This could have been left in WardenSC's BM qq thread. Now a top team suffers bad press, not from the thread, but from the pitchforking and escalation caused by these whiteknight types and even escalated by a TL moderator who failed to remain an impartial moderator and got pulled into a flamewar.
The Team Liquid community has never disappointed me as much as right now.
Yet that only sounds like more good news. Makes the community that much better of a place if we don't have to constantly worry about the intolerant people making the rest of us look as bad as them by bringing us down to their level.
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On May 05 2012 04:26 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:11 Detwiler wrote:
All this defence of destiny is stupid. How bout we we do an experiment? Everyone throw out the phrase "fucking niggers" at work if front of customers or management and see what happens kay? Oh wait thats right you get fired! The only people who dont understand this simple fact of life are the children on this forum who have never had a job. What if your line of work is to be an entertainer? Oh look, suddenly it's different, isn't it. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Chris Rock or some other comedian has used that exact phrase while at work, with an audience to see it. Trey Parker and Matt Stone have also used very similar language in South Park.
Kramer tried it. It did not end well. Even comedians play a dangerous game when they use slurs. It really only works for them when they're directly mocking the people who use them.
Also, Destiny is not a comedian...no matter how funny he thinks he is.
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On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs.
Yeah all of these are the same situation as Destiny's. You should have made your first post in the UFO thread or something, you obviously have no comprehension of relevancy.
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On May 05 2012 04:25 Crownlol wrote:
If the rumor that Destiny is quitting SC2 over this is true, you pitchforkers and the admin that banned him should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.
I rarely disagree with TL mods, but in this case the mod should have noticed the potential for an internet witch hunt, and protected the professional player from attack by dozens of people instead of getting into a petty squabble with him.
The press from this event is obviously bad for all of esports. This could have been left in WardenSC's BM qq thread. Now a top team suffers bad press, not from the thread, but from the pitchforking and escalation caused by these whiteknight types and even escalated by a TL moderator who failed to remain an impartial moderator and got pulled into a flamewar.
The Team Liquid community has never disappointed me as much as right now.
...What? For all the talk of overreacting, posts like this just smack of it. Top team suffers bad press? Not at all. I've seen zero posts bashing on Quantic throughout this whole thing. Bad for all of esports? No. A team member parting ways with his team because their goals do not align is the literally text of this incident. Have you seen how many times that has happened with Major? And do you see the number of fucks that sponsors, or most relevant actors in the esports industry give? That's right, zero.
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On May 05 2012 03:50 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:48 Smackzilla wrote:On May 05 2012 03:42 Kickboxer wrote:
It's absolutely amazing how Destiny didn't offer the standard idiotic Woods / Spitzer / Gibson style "apology".
As someone who'll take integrity over political correctness any day I applaud this from the depths of my heart. Dude, what's your measure of integrity? If Tiger or Spitzer hadn't apologized, would you respect them? How exactly are you relating them to Destiny? The bottom-line is that a jerk who doesn't apologize is still a jerk, and one who will likely never change. He's saying Tiger/Spitzer's apologies were fake, crafted in such a way that they aren't apologizing for their actions and they certainly don't actually believe what they are saying. It's "I'm sorry you were offended" not "I'm sorry for what I did." It's disingenuous and fake. Destiny just plain didn't apologize. He was more authentic than Woods/Spitzer.
Frankly it's a ridiculous analogy. Perhaps Tiger didn't mean it, but no one here knows that, and you certainly cant tell it from his speech. He didn't dodge the issue and twist it into "sorry you were offended". He said he was sorry for his actions several times. He certainly didn't give into political correctness.
As for being "authentic", it's highly overrated if this is an example. Its about as impressive as having mastered the ability to flip someone the bird.
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On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs.
LOL.
I agree with your sarcasm, but the people who flip out have a point, even if it is a bit over the top. They just wanna see e-sports legitimized, not relegated to internet sub-culture like some people in the fighting community are trying to keep it.
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I'm glad to see him gone. I like Quantic, and used to be a Destiny fan - but the more I watched his stream the less likeable he became. A lot of the things he says are funny, but when you're not only sponsored by a major e-sports company (Razer) and are also one of the more popular figures in e-sports you have to have some sort of accountability. I was actually expecting Quantic to hang on to him due to the exposure he brings, but with their acquisition of vile (bringing in a legitimate foreign hope in Illusion) and Naniwa's excellence, he's less important to the team now than he was a few months ago.
I don't disagree with Destiny though - you CAN say what you want, both on the internet and in "real" public... But when you're expected to represent an organization as a public figure, you can still say what you want but you had better be ready to pay for it. At the very least, Orb was apologetic - whether or not he actually believes it isn't the point, it's that he is making changes to be a more presentable and professional figure. Destiny seems to think he's never wrong.
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On May 05 2012 04:31 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs. LOL. I agree with your sarcasm, but the people who flip out have a point, even if it is a bit over the top. They just wanna see e-sports legitimized, not relegated to internet sub-culture like some people in the fighting community are trying to keep it.
This is what I don't understand at all, guys. Does it really validate you to be able to use language like "Rape that fucking bitch!" or "Taking dumb nigger risks"?
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The drama... it's delicious...
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On May 05 2012 04:17 teeeckskay wrote:
Everyone wants to see gaming culture preserved; we're all apart of that community because obviously we like it and identify with it and proud of it.
That assumption is so far from accurate I don't know what to say. There are plenty of people who are embarrassed to be considered part of gamer culture for many of the stigmas it represents. There's a large portion of people who only play SP games or always mute everyone online. Destiny's behavior and the justification behind it is a part of the culture I would love to see done away with. Outside of the internet and very close friends, none of that is acceptable in any form anywhere else and the fact that gamers get associated with that is sickening.
I was never personally offended by what Destiny did but I'm pleased that he's not with Quantic anymore. If I was going to show a stranger who knew nothing about "gaming culture" SC2, I don't want to have to explain why there's popular players on sponsored teams acting in such a way when they lose. The first thing they're going to do is belittle what eSports has accomplished and compare it to how professional everything else is.
The insular group think that goes on to justify this behavior (not just gaming but internet culture as well) is more toxic than any one overreaction in the community is.
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On May 05 2012 04:25 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:11 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:08 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 04:05 Tyrant0 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:02 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. A lot of people choose not to support companies that take certain stances on issues. In a market where there is a lot of comparable competition, supporting the organizations that your consumers support can be the deciding factor in a purchase. It's about not wanting to support a company that finances a group you disagree with, the market for gaming gear is pretty competitive, there are plenty of comparable options, wanting to support a team can make the difference. You disagree with Destiny. Not Quantic nor their sponsors. No, people are disagreeing with Quantic's promotion of someone who uses this type of language. You're missing the point. Quantic doesn't endorse the language. Do you really think because Destiny says Gook, Quantic suddenly watermarks Gook in the background on their website? Nothing actually happens. People just go out of their way to be offended. Don't watch his stream- problem solved. You're missing the point that boycotting a sponsor's products, or at the very least threatening to do so in an e-mail is monumentally over-the-top. Way to fucking strawman my argument, now I know you really have no point to make. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that Quantic would do that, but they are endorsing Destiny by proxy BY SUPPORTING AND SIGNING HIM TO THEIR TEAM. You're obviously too naive to understand what signing a player to a team means.
Strawman looked pretty relevant to me. Destiny says a racial slur, absolutely nothing happens other than people going out of their way to be offended and uproot an entire sponsor from a team. I could repeat my point, again, in response to your restatement, but then we'd just go in circles, so I'll simply inform you that my point is behind you on the wall; above your head.
But do go on with the personal attacks.
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On May 05 2012 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:31 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:On May 05 2012 04:28 Black knight wrote:
Get Idra fired. He called both July and Ensnare faggots, amongst everyone on his stream, and constantly calls people retards, even in live showmatches.
Get Huk fired. He tweeted "nigga".
Get Incontrol fired. He ridiculed a porn star about her profession to the point of tears on the most prestigious public sc2 podcast.
Go ahead, white knights. Do your fucking jobs. LOL. I agree with your sarcasm, but the people who flip out have a point, even if it is a bit over the top. They just wanna see e-sports legitimized, not relegated to internet sub-culture like some people in the fighting community are trying to keep it. This is what I don't understand at all, guys. Does it really validate you to be able to use language like "Rape that fucking bitch!" or "Taking dumb nigger risks"?
No not at all, it's just a kind of shock humour that some people have. I personally find those things funny, but I wouldn't go around calling people "Niggers" just because it's okay on /b/. Doesn't validate or flex elitism at all IMO. There's a place and time for inappropriate behaviour, and that is definitely not in the public eye.
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On May 05 2012 04:27 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 04:24 Silvertine wrote:On May 05 2012 04:22 ClydeFrogSC2 wrote:
It's the same thing as parent's finding out their kids are listening to "satanic" music and whatnot. How is it anything like that? Because it's a subculture that people get offended at/ overreact.
What, people who use the terms "gook" and "nigger"? I don't know if that could be considered a subculture. There is absolutely no logical opposition to "satanic" music, it's just a silly genre which does nothing to harm anyone. I don't know how you can compare that to hurling racist terms at people, especially at the specific ethnic groups for which the slurs were created.
A lot of people see language in a very black and white way, and it can actually serve to perpetuate ignorance and anger at certain words or phrases.
How is it "black and white" to consider racist terms racist? There is absolutely no basis for your argument. It's simple: go to the experts. Try to find a linguist in the entire world who will argue that "nigger" and "gook" are not inherently racist terms.
I agree with Destiny in that words can mean different things and that you shouldn't have to censor yourself, but at the same time he should've known better than to poke the embers.
He doesn't have to censor himself, that choice is his and he clearly decided not to. But you don't have the right to say whatever the fuck you want and not have to deal with the consequences.
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EPT
