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Keep this civil, guys |
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On May 05 2012 03:53 Rygasm wrote:
Everybody's a hypocrite
But not everybody's a progamer 
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On May 05 2012 03:48 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:38 Roe wrote:On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote:
I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. You contradict yourself. People not watching = Career is hurt No one watches = Career is lost This is how a free market works. You have to accept that people can associate with whomever they want, that includes TeamLiquid, Quantic, Razer, etc. In this case they choose not to associate with Destiny. I can't believe I have to explain this so many times. No... Quantic and Razer DID choose to associate with Destiny. Destiny is a popular player and has one of the most entertaining and successful game-related streams in the world. They felt forced into withdrawing their association because of thin-skinned forum members who are too stupid to understand the concept of "if you don't like something, don't watch it" and instead felt the need to whine and complain until they see something bad happen to the person they dislike.
Call me thin-skinned. I'll call you desensitized. Fair?
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People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you.
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On May 05 2012 03:49 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:42 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote:On May 05 2012 03:39 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 03:33 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Growing up gay in a conservative town has changed my perception of certain words. Specifically of course, the word fag/faggot and insults like "that's gay." At first it was hard to hear the words, because they were "bad" words--I mean, these words cause suicide, right? Truth is, if the words alone were enough to invoke the kind of depression necessary for such an act, I would not be typing right now. These words are the most common ones in the average high school student's language.
And you know what? I don't give a fuck anymore. It's a matter of survival, truly, to understand that the words are powerless unless you give them power. Friends of mine offhandedly using "fag" and "that's gay" around me aren't homophobes. They aren't deserving of some kind of persecution and/or prosecution simply because they used a word. It's not until someone puts real hate, real venom, real power into those words that they evolve into something entirely different from just spoken language. People here seem to have some kind of disconnect on this topic, they think that guy A calling guy B a fag in casual conversation is the same as guy A calling guy B a fag while bashing his skull in. Obviously, the context and meaning behind the word changes that word completely. It isn't even the same thing at that point.
Stop trying to protect people from "bad" language. It doesn't make you moral, just, or right. People don't need to be protected by the morality of the masses. If you really want to stop racism or homophobia or whatever the case might be, then focus on stopping it. Trying to stop the use of "nigger" will not end racial inequalities. Trying to stop the use of "faggot" will not end gay teens' suicide. Many of you seem to be getting outraged over the word and not the big picture. Fuck the word; the word is nothing unless it has the larger issue fueling it by way of the individual's own prejudices and hate.
Destiny, if ever you read this, I urge you to continue doing what you do. Do not bend to the majority's whims simply because they are a majority. They are apologists who feel that only by ignoring the fact that words have greater context to dictate actual meaning can issues be resolved. They demonstrate the same kind of ignorance as those who use the words with true malice, albeit with a slightly better sales pitch so as to give their "cause" more fuel.
All this said, I am done with Team Liquid. I have always had a problem with the vigilante antics of this community, but attacking an individual player and his livelihood is 100% unacceptable to anyone who claims to be a just person; it is all too clear that Destiny is simply the first victim in what will undoubtedly be a very long battle for eSports' maturity. I wish him the utmost luck in his future endeavors. Yeah, because clearly since you don't care it's acceptable and shows how using racist and homophobic language only makes "it get better" (TM). Go tell that to the scores of teens that suicide each year from gay bullying. Tell them to toughen up, internet tough guy! You misread my post. Usage of "fag/faggot" in a bullying context has hate behind it, thus changing the word into something more than just a word. Maybe you missed the part where I am also gay and saying these things? Do I need to remind you that you can be gay and hate yourself for it?
I would ask that you read my initial post fully before making generalizations and insulting me as such.
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On May 05 2012 03:47 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:44 Fallians wrote:On May 05 2012 03:36 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote:
I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Purposefully trying to hurt someone based on their racial background through your use of derogatory language is what I'm really ashamed of, the same with all you apologist fucks who seem to accept nigger and gook as language to be freely used whenever you want. YOU people are the disgusting ones, who have no fucking standards of decency. Are you serious? He wasn't purposely trying to hurt ANYONE when using racial slurs... He was expressing frustration at a ladder loss to something he considered cheesy and worthy of being flamed. Just because someone says ''nigger'' or ''faggot'' doesn't make them a racist or homophobic. And please don't attack me personally, it's immature and counter productive to a meaningful discussion TY ^^ Anyone who thinks an acceptable way to express frustration is to use racial slurs is an incredibly ignorant individual, and you're promoting that. Way to be hypocritical calling someone else immature for attacking you when you're supporting someone attacking others, and in a much more disgusting way.
No. I am not in fact promoting the use of racial slurs, I am arguing for his right to use racial slurs as swear words and not words of hate or intolerance. He didn't go up to an asian man call him a gook he said it over the internet in a ladder game where he just got allined. You can't honestly tell me you never use bad words in frustration? One of m best friends is black and I have said the word nigger in frustration over the internet, does that make me a racist?
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The amount of straw men in your post is incredible.
On May 05 2012 03:33 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote:
At first it was hard to hear the words, because they were "bad" words--I mean, these words cause suicide, right?
Of course not, no one has claimed that the words alone cause suicide. They are merely a part of the cruelty inflicted, which yes, is responsible for many suicides.
And you know what? I don't give a fuck anymore. It's a matter of survival, truly, to understand that the words are powerless unless you give them power.
This silly argument could be applied to any disgusting statement ever made. You could tell a stranger on the street that they're disgusting trash, and it's their fault if they let it affect them? This is known as blaming the victim.
Friends of mine offhandedly using "fag" and "that's gay" around me aren't homophobes.
Once again confusing the issue. The question is not whether the person is a bigot or not, it's whether or not what they say is bigoted. No one is arguing that a person who says "That's gay" once is a dyed-in-the-wool homophobe. The point is that it unnecessarily inflicts pain upon people who already receive far too much abuse for their nature.
They aren't deserving of some kind of persecution and/or prosecution simply because they used a word.
It's stunning how twisted your logic is. The person calling others "niggers", "faggots" and Asian people in particular "gooks" isn't guilty of persecution... it's the people who criticize him?
It's not until someone puts real hate, real venom, real power into those words that they evolve into something entirely different from just spoken language.
The words "nigger" and "gook" already have venom and power, that's why people use them. Good luck finding a linguist in the world who disagrees with that assertion.
People here seem to have some kind of disconnect on this topic, they think that guy A calling guy B a fag in casual conversation is the same as guy A calling guy B a fag while bashing his skull in.
Yet again, no, nobody has said that. Stop misrepresenting people's views.
Trying to stop the use of "nigger" will not end racial inequalities. Trying to stop the use of "faggot" will not end gay teens' suicide
Who in this thread has made the claim that stopping the use of these words would end bigotry altogether? Please, point to a single post.
All this said, I am done with Team Liquid. I have always had a problem with the vigilante antics of this community, but attacking an individual player and his livelihood is 100% unacceptable to anyone who claims to be a just person; it is all too clear that Destiny is simply the first victim in what will undoubtedly be a very long battle for eSports' maturity. I wish him the utmost luck in his future endeavors.
Stop being so melodramatic. A guy called people "nigger", "gook" and "faggot" and lost his job. In virtually any setting that outcome would be very likely, it's a perfectly reasonable reaction.
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On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you.
When the issue is important to you, yes you do. After the orb situation I bought an EG shirt. My work computer needs a new mousemat and it's going to be a Razer mousemat.
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On May 05 2012 03:55 Fallians wrote:
One of m best friends is black and I have said the word nigger in frustration over the internet, does that make me a racist?
No, but I wouldn't reccommend you take a job where you get into frustrating situations on the internet. You might say something that would get you fired.
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On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you.
You're an absolute moron, and I hope nobody else responds to you.
User was warned for this post
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On May 05 2012 03:45 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:42 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 03:30 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 03:26 Chocobo wrote:On May 04 2012 21:48 Frunkis wrote:
People just love to get offended by things. It's like a hobby for some people. It's a shame that being offended is so rarely followed by exactly the response it deserves based on its importance, which is shutting the hell up and moving on. You don't have a right to not be offended. This is so true, and it's a disgusting part of what society has become. "I'm so offended! I should get to control the actions of everyone I encounter and get them to obey my rules!" It is so incredibly stupid that these professional offense-takers go around trying to censor the world, instead of just NOT WATCHING the stuff that they don't like. And it's just plain sad that these whiners are getting their way. Razer and Quantic are allowing forum trolls to make decisions for them. Destiny is free to be an offensive and unpleasant person, and everyone else is free to dislike him. But since when do we all get to go around trying to control everybody else, and affect people financially, based on whether we like or dislike them? You know that's exactly how being a player/entertainer/performer/celebrity works right? Your income is directly tied to how much people like you. Exactly! So if enough people stop liking him and stop watching his stream, then he won't have any income! But this situation is different. This is an example of how it doesn't, and shouldn't, work. What happened to Destiny was "I don't like that guy, so I'm going to whine and complain and bitch and moan until I can cut off a source of his income". This had nothing to do whatsoever with how many people like Destiny... this had to do with a vocal minority that dislikes him. A vocal minority should not be able to go around censoring the world. They're not "censoring the world" and you are using "censorship" wrong and making my brain hurt. They are calling up sponsors and telling them about a story. And guess what? The story is true.
As the forum complainers do not have the power to control all flow of information on the internet and literally replace bad words with nice ones, you are correct... they are not literally directly censoring Destiny's speech.
But it is an indirect form of censorship if you throw temper tantrums and threaten to start a highly visible boycott or other PR nightmare unless you get your way. You are telling the world "I will stir up a shitstorm unless I get what I want, and what I want is for bad language to be taken out of pro gaming"... and sadly, it's working.
This situation is technically not very different from the Muslim extremists who threaten to use violence if other countries exercise their free speech and publish a Muhammad cartoon in their own newspaper.
Obviously this current situation is on a much less intense scale than that, but at the core it's the same idea. "Follow my rules or else I'm going to fuck with you" is how things are working here, and no one seems to pay attention to the more sensible rule of "if you don't like something, don't watch it".
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LOL at all the internet warriors citing 'their black friend' as the reason its ok for them to espouse intolerance.
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On May 05 2012 03:55 Fallians wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:47 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 03:44 Fallians wrote:On May 05 2012 03:36 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote:
I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Purposefully trying to hurt someone based on their racial background through your use of derogatory language is what I'm really ashamed of, the same with all you apologist fucks who seem to accept nigger and gook as language to be freely used whenever you want. YOU people are the disgusting ones, who have no fucking standards of decency. Are you serious? He wasn't purposely trying to hurt ANYONE when using racial slurs... He was expressing frustration at a ladder loss to something he considered cheesy and worthy of being flamed. Just because someone says ''nigger'' or ''faggot'' doesn't make them a racist or homophobic. And please don't attack me personally, it's immature and counter productive to a meaningful discussion TY ^^ Anyone who thinks an acceptable way to express frustration is to use racial slurs is an incredibly ignorant individual, and you're promoting that. Way to be hypocritical calling someone else immature for attacking you when you're supporting someone attacking others, and in a much more disgusting way. No. I am not in fact promoting the use of racial slurs, I am arguing for his right to use racial slurs as swear words and not words of hate or intolerance. He didn't go up to an asian man call him a gook he said it over the internet in a ladder game where he just got allined. You can't honestly tell me you never use bad words in frustration? One of m best friends is black and I have said the word nigger in frustration over the internet, does that make me a racist?
That player on the internet happened to be Korean so...yeah he did go up to an Korean man and call him a gook.
It might not make you a racist but it does make you a shitty friend.
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On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you.
I think it is pretty foolish and ignorant to call a group of people upset by racially derogatory insults a 'lynch mob'. It's not funny. A bit of respect can go a long way.
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On May 05 2012 03:55 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. When the issue is important to you, yes you do. After the orb situation I bought an EG shirt. My work computer needs a new mousemat and it's going to be a Razer mousemat.
The world is ending.
On May 05 2012 03:57 jakethesnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:54 Tyrant0 wrote:
People who actually judge what computer accessories they buy based on whether or not that brand sponsors a player who has said a racial slur are amazing. I guess that mouse just spontaneously falls apart the instant Destiny says the N word. Or, they'll start watermarking the entire box with the N word and refuse to sell it to black people.
Lynch mob 2012, coming to a sponsor near you. I think it is pretty foolish and ignorant to call a group of people upset by racially derogatory insults a 'lynch mob'. It's not funny. A bit of respect can go a long way.
It's actually really funny. They take things way over the top and make it personal. A guy said a racial slur, I don't like him. I'm not going to watch his stream or support him. No, even better: I'm going to e-mail his sponsors and pit him against his entire team and risk esports being entirely derailed by the irrelevant whims of hyper-sensitive community members.
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On May 05 2012 03:54 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:49 Roe wrote:On May 05 2012 03:42 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote:On May 05 2012 03:39 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 03:33 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Growing up gay in a conservative town has changed my perception of certain words. Specifically of course, the word fag/faggot and insults like "that's gay." At first it was hard to hear the words, because they were "bad" words--I mean, these words cause suicide, right? Truth is, if the words alone were enough to invoke the kind of depression necessary for such an act, I would not be typing right now. These words are the most common ones in the average high school student's language.
And you know what? I don't give a fuck anymore. It's a matter of survival, truly, to understand that the words are powerless unless you give them power. Friends of mine offhandedly using "fag" and "that's gay" around me aren't homophobes. They aren't deserving of some kind of persecution and/or prosecution simply because they used a word. It's not until someone puts real hate, real venom, real power into those words that they evolve into something entirely different from just spoken language. People here seem to have some kind of disconnect on this topic, they think that guy A calling guy B a fag in casual conversation is the same as guy A calling guy B a fag while bashing his skull in. Obviously, the context and meaning behind the word changes that word completely. It isn't even the same thing at that point.
Stop trying to protect people from "bad" language. It doesn't make you moral, just, or right. People don't need to be protected by the morality of the masses. If you really want to stop racism or homophobia or whatever the case might be, then focus on stopping it. Trying to stop the use of "nigger" will not end racial inequalities. Trying to stop the use of "faggot" will not end gay teens' suicide. Many of you seem to be getting outraged over the word and not the big picture. Fuck the word; the word is nothing unless it has the larger issue fueling it by way of the individual's own prejudices and hate.
Destiny, if ever you read this, I urge you to continue doing what you do. Do not bend to the majority's whims simply because they are a majority. They are apologists who feel that only by ignoring the fact that words have greater context to dictate actual meaning can issues be resolved. They demonstrate the same kind of ignorance as those who use the words with true malice, albeit with a slightly better sales pitch so as to give their "cause" more fuel.
All this said, I am done with Team Liquid. I have always had a problem with the vigilante antics of this community, but attacking an individual player and his livelihood is 100% unacceptable to anyone who claims to be a just person; it is all too clear that Destiny is simply the first victim in what will undoubtedly be a very long battle for eSports' maturity. I wish him the utmost luck in his future endeavors. Yeah, because clearly since you don't care it's acceptable and shows how using racist and homophobic language only makes "it get better" (TM). Go tell that to the scores of teens that suicide each year from gay bullying. Tell them to toughen up, internet tough guy! You misread my post. Usage of "fag/faggot" in a bullying context has hate behind it, thus changing the word into something more than just a word. Maybe you missed the part where I am also gay and saying these things? Do I need to remind you that you can be gay and hate yourself for it? I would ask that you read my initial post fully before making generalizations and insulting me as such.
Your entire wall of text was essentially saying "I dealt with it" and therefore "everyone needs to learn to deal with it" because the world is a nasty nasty place. You don't understand that your close friends, and Destiny, by using such language, are a part of the problem.
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On May 05 2012 03:51 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Utterly irrelevant semi-pro acts like a child on his stream and leaves his team because some people got annoyed and wrote to the sponsors.
Wow, big news. Totally changes eSports forever.
The ramifications of this event will be felt for generations to come.
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On May 05 2012 03:55 Fallians wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:47 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 03:44 Fallians wrote:On May 05 2012 03:36 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote:
I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Purposefully trying to hurt someone based on their racial background through your use of derogatory language is what I'm really ashamed of, the same with all you apologist fucks who seem to accept nigger and gook as language to be freely used whenever you want. YOU people are the disgusting ones, who have no fucking standards of decency. Are you serious? He wasn't purposely trying to hurt ANYONE when using racial slurs... He was expressing frustration at a ladder loss to something he considered cheesy and worthy of being flamed. Just because someone says ''nigger'' or ''faggot'' doesn't make them a racist or homophobic. And please don't attack me personally, it's immature and counter productive to a meaningful discussion TY ^^ Anyone who thinks an acceptable way to express frustration is to use racial slurs is an incredibly ignorant individual, and you're promoting that. Way to be hypocritical calling someone else immature for attacking you when you're supporting someone attacking others, and in a much more disgusting way. No. I am not in fact promoting the use of racial slurs, I am arguing for his right to use racial slurs as swear words and not words of hate or intolerance. He didn't go up to an asian man call him a gook he said it over the internet in a ladder game where he just got allined. You can't honestly tell me you never use bad words in frustration? One of m best friends is black and I have said the word nigger in frustration over the internet, does that make me a racist?
No but it makes you someone who lacks the sensitivity and awareness to realize what the use of racial slurs propagates. From 12 year olds who use them to compensate for their weakness to actual racists who think it's fine, you can be someone with the maturity to do something against it, or you can shrug your shoulders and say "not my problem".
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the causes and effects of racism/homophobia are really kinda out of the scope of this conversation/community. you guys are not coming up with any new ideas that havnt been said/written somewhere sometime before. the fact of the matter is NOT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU, and people WILL BE OFFENDED wen a promimet community figure is casually using hatespeech during his financial pursuits within the community. people have every right to complain, and everyone crying that people should keep their mouths shut, should maybe reconsider supporting this type of speech because A. it does nothing for the enjoyment of the game and B. i surly wont be missed(unless you think its funny, in which case C. you are fucked in the head)
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On May 05 2012 03:55 Fallians wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:47 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 03:44 Fallians wrote:On May 05 2012 03:36 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote:
I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Purposefully trying to hurt someone based on their racial background through your use of derogatory language is what I'm really ashamed of, the same with all you apologist fucks who seem to accept nigger and gook as language to be freely used whenever you want. YOU people are the disgusting ones, who have no fucking standards of decency. Are you serious? He wasn't purposely trying to hurt ANYONE when using racial slurs... He was expressing frustration at a ladder loss to something he considered cheesy and worthy of being flamed. Just because someone says ''nigger'' or ''faggot'' doesn't make them a racist or homophobic. And please don't attack me personally, it's immature and counter productive to a meaningful discussion TY ^^ Anyone who thinks an acceptable way to express frustration is to use racial slurs is an incredibly ignorant individual, and you're promoting that. Way to be hypocritical calling someone else immature for attacking you when you're supporting someone attacking others, and in a much more disgusting way. No. I am not in fact promoting the use of racial slurs, I am arguing for his right to use racial slurs as swear words and not words of hate or intolerance. He didn't go up to an asian man call him a gook he said it over the internet in a ladder game where he just got allined. You can't honestly tell me you never use bad words in frustration? One of m best friends is black and I have said the word nigger in frustration over the internet, does that make me a racist?
I've never said "nigger" out of frustration to anyone because I grew up with the majority of my friends being black and it was never acceptable. I have said bad words in frustration, but not racial charged language directly to the people that it insults. Are you serious? It makes you fucking ignorant as hell if you honestly have a friend that's black but you can't respect your friendship enough not to use a word that demeans his entire background.
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