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Keep this civil, guys | ||
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
If Destiny really meant this, he'd leave SC2. The short of it is, whether Destiny is right or wrong, his actions are hurting the SC2 scene more than they're helping. He's alienating more people than he's bringing in or keeping. His actions aren't how you go about getting SC2 out to a broader audience nor is it how you grow esports. That all said, I really doubt he cares much despite the quote above. | ||
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BlueLanterna
291 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote: I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Purposefully trying to hurt someone based on their racial background through your use of derogatory language is what I'm really ashamed of, the same with all you apologist fucks who seem to accept nigger and gook as language to be freely used whenever you want. YOU people are the disgusting ones, who have no fucking standards of decency. | ||
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TricksAre4Figs
United States125 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote: I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Destiny set his own career back and has only himself to blame. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:32 Fallians wrote: I honestly feel disgusted to be part of this community... This is the second time someone has had their career set back because of people who can't keep their own morals and personal opinions to themselves. If you hate that destiny uses racial slurs in anger,on ladder then dont watch him. But purposely trying to hurt someones career or reputation is absolutely horrid and anyone who sent a letter directly to the sponsors or condemned destiny should be ashamed of themselves. Just as I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. You contradict yourself. People not watching = Career is hurt No one watches = Career is lost This is how a free market works. You have to accept that people can associate with whomever they want, that includes TeamLiquid, Quantic, Razer, etc. In this case they choose not to associate with Destiny. I can't believe I have to explain this so many times. | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
"I don't always get upset and use curse words.....but when I do I use all of them" | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:33 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote: Growing up gay in a conservative town has changed my perception of certain words. Specifically of course, the word fag/faggot and insults like "that's gay." At first it was hard to hear the words, because they were "bad" words--I mean, these words cause suicide, right? Truth is, if the words alone were enough to invoke the kind of depression necessary for such an act, I would not be typing right now. These words are the most common ones in the average high school student's language. And you know what? I don't give a fuck anymore. It's a matter of survival, truly, to understand that the words are powerless unless you give them power. Friends of mine offhandedly using "fag" and "that's gay" around me aren't homophobes. They aren't deserving of some kind of persecution and/or prosecution simply because they used a word. It's not until someone puts real hate, real venom, real power into those words that they evolve into something entirely different from just spoken language. People here seem to have some kind of disconnect on this topic, they think that guy A calling guy B a fag in casual conversation is the same as guy A calling guy B a fag while bashing his skull in. Obviously, the context and meaning behind the word changes that word completely. It isn't even the same thing at that point. Stop trying to protect people from "bad" language. It doesn't make you moral, just, or right. People don't need to be protected by the morality of the masses. If you really want to stop racism or homophobia or whatever the case might be, then focus on stopping it. Trying to stop the use of "nigger" will not end racial inequalities. Trying to stop the use of "faggot" will not end gay teens' suicide. Many of you seem to be getting outraged over the word and not the big picture. Fuck the word; the word is nothing unless it has the larger issue fueling it by way of the individual's own prejudices and hate. Destiny, if ever you read this, I urge you to continue doing what you do. Do not bend to the majority's whims simply because they are a majority. They are apologists who feel that only by ignoring the fact that words have greater context to dictate actual meaning can issues be resolved. They demonstrate the same kind of ignorance as those who use the words with true malice, albeit with a slightly better sales pitch so as to give their "cause" more fuel. All this said, I am done with Team Liquid. I have always had a problem with the vigilante antics of this community, but attacking an individual player and his livelihood is 100% unacceptable to anyone who claims to be a just person; it is all too clear that Destiny is simply the first victim in what will undoubtedly be a very long battle for eSports' maturity. I wish him the utmost luck in his future endeavors. Yeah, because clearly since you don't care it's acceptable and shows how using racist and homophobic language only makes "it get better" (TM). Go tell that to the scores of teens that suicide each year from gay bullying. Tell them to toughen up, internet tough guy! | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:25 Scootaloo wrote: Do you honestly think every time someone uses a racial slur this is racially motivated? This would be the case of all humans where completely rational and so where their actions, however, because we're dealing with humans this is impossible as for nearly all humans emotion and learned behavior will practically always overrule. The emotion the most important thing that matters, why do you think we treat people differently when they're emotionally disturbed during the committing of a crime? Would you prefer everyone who takes a life be treated equally? As according to you whether somebody believes their life is being threatened is not relevant to their crime. Humans run on auto pilot when emotions are involved, and more specifically our speech patterns are dictated by our past, if your parents kept screaming racial slurs, the chances you'll use these terms on a emotionally disturbed time are incredibly high as during these moments the systems that normally filter your behavior for social acceptability simply fall apart as this is the most effective way of actually staying alive. And sadly enough the mind has issues distinguishing physical and mental attacks, as for the persona, these amount to the same. Personally I don't use racial slurs, yet I've heard them countless of times from family, a couple years back due to a malfunctioning bike I nearly broke my neck, a group of youths from a another ethnic group started laughing at me while I was still dealing with the shock of nearly dying, my response to be precise was "Gore kanker marrokanen" which in Dutch is a bit less charged then a word with more history like "Nigger" , but if it wasn't for my somewhat impressive stature I probably would have directly faced the consequences of my actions, despite not being racist or finding these terms acceptable. For people with strong emotions and a dented self image, especially if they tie their self image to their skill at a game and broadcast this live, the emotions evoked by a bad loss are incredible, remember, this is what Destiny does for a freaking living, people making him look bad are for his mind a direct attack on his career and self image. Destiny has rage issues, he would be the first to admit this, if you really want to help him, write out a well thought out email to the guy with suggestions how he could help this problem that he probably suffers most from, these bullshit tactics employed now will just push him defensively into a corner, further solidifying his idea that this is part of his personality and defendable on the grounds of free speech. And worst of all this sponsor harassing is hurting this community and E-sports in general. I don't think everyone who uses racial slurs should automatically be considered a racist for life. I even expressed this in the post you quoted, and the one I made before that. Regardless of your upbringing it just isn't cool too use racial slurs as an insult. There are emotionally straining circumstances in which normally non-racist people use them, but that doesnt excuse it. You can cut people some slack if the circumstances warrant it though, thats fine. If you catch yourself using a racial slur in anger, that should be a source of shame. You should maybe apologize. And then maybe people should move the fuck on with their lives. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:28 LaM wrote: Then you shouldn't ever be allowed to swear because when you walk outside you are in public... If you can't tell the difference between being a radio host and a video game player, and how you should choose your words as one vs the other than I don't know what can be done to help you. Hey man, if you can't tell the difference between making racist insults as some nobody in gold league and making racist insults as a paid representative of a company sponsor I don't know what can be done to help you. Destiny's free to do as he likes now, since he's just the aforementioned dude swearing on the sidewalk. However if you're getting paid to walk on the sidewalk as a representative of a company, they probably would frown upon you making an ass of yourself and insulting people. | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:12 sereniity wrote: Actually wether Hasu feels offended or not isn't the case at all, since it wasn't the case with Destiny nor Orb. They are completely different situations. One is two friends engaging in personal in-jokes based on an existing relationship. The other is one person abusing a stranger. The difference is quite clear. | ||
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[Agony]x90
United States853 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:33 DxT.SuSaNoO wrote: Growing up gay in a conservative town has changed my perception of certain words. Specifically of course, the word fag/faggot and insults like "that's gay." At first it was hard to hear the words, because they were "bad" words--I mean, these words cause suicide, right? Truth is, if the words alone were enough to invoke the kind of depression necessary for such an act, I would not be typing rigtht now. These words are the most common ones in the average high school student's language. And you know what? I don't give a fuck anymore. It's a matter of survival, truly, to understand that the words are powerless unless you give them power. Friends of mine offhandedly using "fag" and "that's gay" around me aren't homophobes. They aren't deserving of some kind of persecution and/or prosecution simply because they used a word. It's not until someone puts real hate, real venom, real power into those words that they evolve into something entirely different from just spoken language. People here seem to have some kind of disconnect on this topic, they think that guy A calling guy B a fag in casual conversation is the same as guy A calling guy B a fag while bashing his skull in. Obviously, the context and meaning behind the word changes that word completely. It isn't even the same thing at that point. Stop trying to protect people from "bad" language. It doesn't make you moral, just, or right. People don't need to be protected by the morality of the masses. If you really want to stop racism or homophobia or whatever the case might be, then focus on stopping it. Trying to stop the use of "nigger" will not end racial inequalities. Trying to stop the use of "faggot" will not end gay teens' suicide. Many of you seem to be getting outraged over the word and not the big picture. Fuck the word; the word is nothing unless it has the larger issue fueling it by way of the individual's own prejudices and hate. Destiny, if ever you read this, I urge you to continue doing what you do. Do not bend to the majority's whims simply because they are a majority. They are apologists who feel that only by ignoring the fact that words have greater context to dictate actual meaning can issues be resolved. They demonstrate the same kind of ignorance as those who use the words with true malice, albeit with a slightly better sales pitch so as to give their "cause" more fuel. All this said, I am done with Team Liquid. I have always had a problem with the vigilante antics of this community, but attacking an individual player and his livelihood is 100% unacceptable to anyone who claims to be a just person; it is all too clear that Destiny is simply the first victim in what will undoubtedly be a very long battle for eSports' maturity. I wish him the utmost luck in his future endeavors. I think you have a lesson well learned, but misused here. I feel the need to respond, but you apparently won't read this, as you are "done" with the community. You argue that these words only hurt or deserve negative attention when done with venom. Well I say that destiny did just that. He wanted to aggressively attack another player and wanted to find a way to do so by any means possible. This is likely why he used a racial term after reading Korean. No he may not be racist, but I would not need to be a homophobe to use antigay terms in order to insult a gay individual. And if the statement is made where a distinction is not, then who else than destiny will truly ever know if he is racist or just using racism to harass/attack someone | ||
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DxT.SuSaNoO
United States23 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:39 adrenaLinG wrote: Yeah, because clearly since you don't care it's acceptable and shows how using racist and homophobic language only makes "it get better" (TM). Go tell that to the scores of teens that suicide each year from gay bullying. Tell them to toughen up, internet tough guy! You misread my post. Usage of "fag/faggot" in a bullying context has hate behind it, thus changing the word into something more than just a word. Maybe you missed the part where I am also gay and saying these things? | ||
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:30 Klondikebar wrote: You know that's exactly how being a player/entertainer/performer/celebrity works right? Your income is directly tied to how much people like you. Exactly! So if enough people stop liking him and stop watching his stream, then he won't have any income! But this situation is different. This is an example of how it doesn't, and shouldn't, work. What happened to Destiny was "I don't like that guy, so I'm going to whine and complain and bitch and moan until I can cut off a source of his income". This had nothing to do whatsoever with how many people like Destiny... this had to do with a vocal minority that dislikes him. A vocal minority should not be able to go around censoring the world. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
As someone who'll take integrity over political correctness any day I applaud this from the depths of my heart. | ||
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Fallians
Canada242 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:36 BlueLanterna wrote: Purposefully trying to hurt someone based on their racial background through your use of derogatory language is what I'm really ashamed of, the same with all you apologist fucks who seem to accept nigger and gook as language to be freely used whenever you want. YOU people are the disgusting ones, who have no fucking standards of decency. Are you serious? He wasn't purposely trying to hurt ANYONE when using racial slurs... He was expressing frustration at a ladder loss to something he considered cheesy and worthy of being flamed. Just because someone says ''nigger'' or ''faggot'' doesn't make them a racist or homophobic. And please don't attack me personally, it's immature and counter productive to a meaningful discussion TY ^^ | ||
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farvacola
United States18843 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:40 bonifaceviii wrote: Hey man, if you can't tell the difference between making racist insults as some nobody in gold league and making racist insults as a paid representative of a company sponsor I don't know what can be done to help you. Destiny's free to do as he likes now, since he's just the aforementioned dude swearing on the sidewalk. However if you're getting paid to walk on the sidewalk as a representative of a company, they probably would frown upon you making an ass of yourself and insulting people. Unless said company hired said sidewalk walker knowing full well that this individual is well known for swearing/insulting others, which is far more comparable to this situation, considering that Destiny's stream popularity/infamy was clearly a major reason for Quantic picking him up. | ||
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Obscura.304
150 Posts
On May 05 2012 02:36 Rebel_lion wrote: I think it would be better for pro's to not stream or post on TL at all. It is obviously opening yourself up too a mob action that will result in hurting your professional carreer. There are just too many random people that will take the chance to jab a pro, or if they can actually harm him/her, do so. I bet this is why Korean pro's and pro's in general always have cookie-cutter answers, and are boring to interview and such. I agree with this, but the western situation is more complex. As I understand it, western teams aren't nearly as well-sponsored as their Korean counterparts, so for a player to survive, they pretty much need to have an "individual face". Unfortunately, the community is proving that if they don't like that face, they'll gladly destroy your career. As it is, the players are pretty much stuck in a lose-lose situation. The idiots who are emailing sponsors in the name of "professionalism" are hurting every western professional gamer more than they can imagine. They are the ones that are actively preventing "professionalism" from happening. | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:42 Chocobo wrote: Exactly! So if enough people stop liking him and stop watching his stream, then he won't have any income! But this situation is different. This is an example of how it doesn't, and shouldn't, work. What happened to Destiny was "I don't like that guy, so I'm going to whine and complain and bitch and moan until I can cut off a source of his income". This had nothing to do whatsoever with how many people like Destiny... this had to do with a vocal minority that dislikes him. A vocal minority should not be able to go around censoring the world. They're not "censoring the world" and you are using "censorship" wrong and making my brain hurt. They are calling up sponsors and telling them about a story. And guess what? The story is true. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:44 farvacola wrote: Unless said company hired said sidewalk walker knowing full well that this individual is well known for swearing/insulting others, which is far more comparable to this situation, considering that Destiny's stream popularity/infamy was clearly a major reason for Quantic picking him up. Absolutely. In addition, the company that bankrolls Quantic, that being Razer, has a right to know that this is Quantic's opinion and to make the appropriate decisions based on full knowledge of that. | ||
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Fallians
Canada242 Posts
On May 05 2012 03:38 Roe wrote: You contradict yourself. People not watching = Career is hurt No one watches = Career is lost This is how a free market works. You have to accept that people can associate with whomever they want, that includes TeamLiquid, Quantic, Razer, etc. In this case they choose not to associate with Destiny. I can't believe I have to explain this so many times. By purposely trying to hurt someones career I mean even after you stop watching him, you continue to be a part of the situation by causing trouble (emailing sponsors, making threads ...) when instead you can say ''I dont like what he does I'm going to distance myself from the situation'' | ||
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