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Keep this civil, guys |
I don't think it's terribly sophistic to say Destiny isn't a racist ergo the people angry with him aren't really reacting to anything tangible.
What you have been doing in this thread and the other one is defending Destiny by engaging in the same 'let's bog down the discussion into meaningless rabbit-holes about defining this and comparing that' tactics that are the bane of any productive conversation; basically, obscuring the actual issues by extensive use of non-sequitirs, strawmen, false equivalences, etc. It's pseudo-intellectual obfuscation at its worst.
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On May 05 2012 03:09 shell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 23:31 sad.wish wrote:I mailed the sponsors!  From 8 Different emails, with 8 different well written essay's..... It worked, we got what we wanted, and it only helped eSports, not hurt it Get a life and get a job.. The day when eSports has no racism! now if we could only solve the racism within the real world, you know? Where people are killed, raped, abused, imprisioned, fired etc.. etc.. I don't know if you guys noticed but this only happens in the USA, where a young black man was killed for being "gangsta" black and the guy got away for free... we don't have those rules here you know, actually firing on people is not accepted! USA people think racism is there thing and slavery is also a burden on american history! Open your eyes, slavery has happen since man first built something and you guys don't even have 300 years.. so yeah it's a burden on all majoritys not to enslave the minoritys.. Right now it's a bunch of stupid kids and some biggots destroying careers of some guys that speak bullshit, they are not racists, they said racists comments to online guys when they lost in a internet game! I don't care about destiny or orb but come on? what's next idra? what if day9 makes a mistake and says it to? what about stephano? or whitera? Will the minority community allow anyone to speak anything? this is retarded and it will eventually blow up in someones face..
You're making ridiculous points. As someone who has taken graduate level courses in American military and economic history, slavery IS a burden on American history and racism has been a gigantic problem ever since then. You really don't know what you're talking about it, what does the length of time a country has been in existance matter?
Right now, it could be immature kids who want to "destroy" the career of Destiny, but they have all the justification in the world because nobody deserves to be lauded for being so fucking ignorant with their use of language, which they claim to have a good understanding of.
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On May 05 2012 03:05 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:03 Crushinator wrote:On May 05 2012 03:00 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:56 Crushinator wrote:On May 05 2012 02:45 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:41 DeepElemBlues wrote:You seem to be missing my point. We hold people to double standards not because there's anything terribly meritorious about the double standard, but because it makes company X more money to just sack the poor fool than do PR damage control. It's literally that simple. While, as I said, I understand Quantic's decision to sack Destiny, on a purely moral level I see nothing particularly offensive about his behaviour beyond the immorality that accompanies all malicious insulting (which virtually every Sc2 player is guilty of) because I don't think the use of a racial slur represents any serious racial prejudice in Destiny's character. When you insult someone, you aim to hurt them. That's the sin, right there. It's not how you say it or how successfully you hurt them; it's what you mean to do. And in that regard, all people who insult other people are equally guilty. "you're stupid" is morally equivalent to "you're a fucking nigger" or some other slur? that's an untenable position to take but to each his own In the context of "I just lost a game therefore I'm going to insult this guy cause he made me lose," yes, the emotion behind the insult is identical. People just have favourite insults. The emotion is irrelevant. When you use a racial slur as an insult you imply that a certain race is in some way inferior. You want to hurt someone and you choose do this through racism. That is not cool, ever. It doesn't even matter if you 'truly' are a racist or not. If you want to be a child and hurl insults at someone, fine. Wish him a fiery death, inform him that you have had sexual relations with his relatives. It feels good sometimes, I'm not going to judge you for indulging yourself. But race is not fair game, ever. Wishing someone death and sexually degrading all of his relatives, both of which are rather personal insults, is better than simply calling someone a "nigger" offhandedly? Yes, you got it. It isn't hard. This is very sad and arbitrary. It leads me to believe that you don't actually care about demeaning definitely defined (i.e. clearly referenced) people, but only demeaning certain broad groups of people.
It isn't fucking arbitrary. Demeaning an individual that you have some sort of personal grudge against is categorically different from demeaning groups of people for traits they have no control over. One is childish and stupid, the other is outright immoral and damaging to society.
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On May 05 2012 03:13 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +
I don't think it's terribly sophistic to say Destiny isn't a racist ergo the people angry with him aren't really reacting to anything tangible.
What you have been doing in this thread and the other one is defending Destiny by engaging in the same 'let's bog down the discussion into meaningless rabbit-holes about defining this and comparing that' tactics that are the bane of any productive conversation; basically, obscuring the actual issues by extensive use of non-sequitirs, strawmen, false equivalences, etc. It's pseudo-intellectual obfuscation at its worst.
The irony in this is too much for me to bear.
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On May 05 2012 03:13 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:05 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 03:03 Crushinator wrote:On May 05 2012 03:00 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:56 Crushinator wrote:On May 05 2012 02:45 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:41 DeepElemBlues wrote:You seem to be missing my point. We hold people to double standards not because there's anything terribly meritorious about the double standard, but because it makes company X more money to just sack the poor fool than do PR damage control. It's literally that simple. While, as I said, I understand Quantic's decision to sack Destiny, on a purely moral level I see nothing particularly offensive about his behaviour beyond the immorality that accompanies all malicious insulting (which virtually every Sc2 player is guilty of) because I don't think the use of a racial slur represents any serious racial prejudice in Destiny's character. When you insult someone, you aim to hurt them. That's the sin, right there. It's not how you say it or how successfully you hurt them; it's what you mean to do. And in that regard, all people who insult other people are equally guilty. "you're stupid" is morally equivalent to "you're a fucking nigger" or some other slur? that's an untenable position to take but to each his own In the context of "I just lost a game therefore I'm going to insult this guy cause he made me lose," yes, the emotion behind the insult is identical. People just have favourite insults. The emotion is irrelevant. When you use a racial slur as an insult you imply that a certain race is in some way inferior. You want to hurt someone and you choose do this through racism. That is not cool, ever. It doesn't even matter if you 'truly' are a racist or not. If you want to be a child and hurl insults at someone, fine. Wish him a fiery death, inform him that you have had sexual relations with his relatives. It feels good sometimes, I'm not going to judge you for indulging yourself. But race is not fair game, ever. Wishing someone death and sexually degrading all of his relatives, both of which are rather personal insults, is better than simply calling someone a "nigger" offhandedly? Yes, you got it. It isn't hard. This is very sad and arbitrary. It leads me to believe that you don't actually care about demeaning definitely defined (i.e. clearly referenced) people, but only demeaning certain broad groups of people. It isn't fucking arbitrary. Demeaning an individual that you have some sort of personal grudge against is categorically different from demeaning groups of people for traits they have no control over. One is childish and stupid, the other is outright immoral and damaging to society.
I guess we'll have to disagree. I'd say they're both immoral.
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On May 04 2012 15:51 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 15:50 Zidane wrote:
He doesn't care, he's still making bank off his fan boys. Right, he quit the team so the rest of his teammates wouldn't have to take a hit in their sponsorship clearly shows he doesn't give a shit.
Exactly.
I'm extremely disgusted how pathetic this community has gotten.
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On May 05 2012 03:12 [Agony]x90 wrote:
I think its important to note that the person that originally complained was a person who ended up on destinys stream without destinys permission or disgression. He agreed to no terms saying that he was okay with either harassment or racial terms. This means that he was outside destinys self made protections, and that if insulted or offended could rightfully complain. This is also why internet personalities can be dangerous. If destiny is trying to intentionally be offensive for the sake of comedic affect (ie. For the benefit of his personal viewership), then he'll end up causing more problems then if he were just saying whatever he wanted to his stream but not the other player.
Definitely worth noting.
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On May 05 2012 03:14 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 15:51 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 04 2012 15:50 Zidane wrote:
He doesn't care, he's still making bank off his fan boys. Right, he quit the team so the rest of his teammates wouldn't have to take a hit in their sponsorship clearly shows he doesn't give a shit. Exactly. I'm extremely disgusted how pathetic this community has gotten.
Be disgusted with how far some people have to go in order to make themselves "entertaining".
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On May 05 2012 03:12 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Considering the amount of racism and bigotry I encounter on the ladder on a daily basis, Destiny, Orb, and other's firing might be the biggest absurdity in Starcraft. Everyone gets angry, and a ton of people use words such "nigger" and "faggot" when angry. To witchhunt a player who does it because he represents esports is pure hypocrisy. Racially loaded words won't destroy Starcraft, but mobbing top players will.
It's not hypocrisy, what are you on about? One can't do anything about some random kid on the internet yelling racial abuse, other than say send him an angry email. But someone who represents the scene as a professional player, one can do something about: demand that he step down. It's perfectly fair.
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On May 04 2012 15:52 Blackfoger wrote:How is it toxic. I believe that it was very just such as what happened with orb. Don Imus got fired basically doing the same thing. Players should be policed
Don Imus was a radio talk show host who speaks for a living on public radio. Destiny plays videogames.
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seeing as how words are just imaginary concepts used to describe other imaginary concepts... this thread its high amount of srs business makes me rofl
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So many hypocrites in this thread, which irritates me more than anything any player or caster has ever said.
Destiny will be fine of course, and hopefully Quantic will be as well because Nani just made top 8 GSL for the first time in a long time as a foreigner.
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I feel a bit disgusted that our community make something like this to a player just cause of some word said in anger...
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On May 05 2012 03:12 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Considering the amount of racism and bigotry I encounter on the ladder on a daily basis, Destiny, Orb, and other's firing might be the biggest absurdity in Starcraft. Everyone gets angry, and a ton of people use words such "nigger" and "faggot" when angry. To witchhunt a player who does it because he represents esports is pure hypocrisy. Racially loaded words won't destroy Starcraft, but mobbing top players will.
People keep talking about witch hunts, and I'm a little confused. The reason the Salem witch trials were bad is because there aren't actually witches! If the people who were killed at Salem were actually using dark powers to sicken their neighbors and kill their cattle, the episode becomes much more understandable. By contrast, I don't think anyone really disputes that Destiny uses racial slurs as terms of abuse. The only question is whether that's acceptable behavior. So it's really not a witch hunt at all.
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On May 05 2012 03:14 LgN.EijZrA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 15:51 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 04 2012 15:50 Zidane wrote:
He doesn't care, he's still making bank off his fan boys. Right, he quit the team so the rest of his teammates wouldn't have to take a hit in their sponsorship clearly shows he doesn't give a shit. Exactly. I'm extremely disgusted how pathetic this community has gotten.
just so we are clear, are we supposed to be applauding the fact that he put his team in this situation, or that he removed himself from the team before they elected to remove him because of sponsorship issues?
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On May 05 2012 03:18 LaM wrote:
Don Imus was a radio talk show host who speaks for a living on public radio. Destiny plays videogames.
Then Destiny shouldn't care, since he doesn't make a living playing videogames for a public audience...
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On May 05 2012 03:15 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:12 [Agony]x90 wrote:
I think its important to note that the person that originally complained was a person who ended up on destinys stream without destinys permission or disgression. He agreed to no terms saying that he was okay with either harassment or racial terms. This means that he was outside destinys self made protections, and that if insulted or offended could rightfully complain. This is also why internet personalities can be dangerous. If destiny is trying to intentionally be offensive for the sake of comedic affect (ie. For the benefit of his personal viewership), then he'll end up causing more problems then if he were just saying whatever he wanted to his stream but not the other player. Definitely worth noting.
Does it help that the person who destiny called gook is also a Korean?
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On May 05 2012 03:18 LaM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 15:52 Blackfoger wrote:On May 04 2012 15:48 ch33psh33p wrote:
What a wonderfully toxic community. How is it toxic. I believe that it was very just such as what happened with orb. Don Imus got fired basically doing the same thing. Players should be policed Don Imus was a radio talk show host who speaks for a living on public radio. Destiny plays videogames.
Wait, public radio? I hope you mean commercial radio that is available to the public, not NPR.
As to the contrast of their spheres of influence, that's kind of the point. esports' growth is hardly helped by Destiny, though I wouldn't go so far (yet) as to say he's a net negative.
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On May 05 2012 03:17 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 03:14 LgN.EijZrA wrote:On May 04 2012 15:51 ch33psh33p wrote:On May 04 2012 15:50 Zidane wrote:
He doesn't care, he's still making bank off his fan boys. Right, he quit the team so the rest of his teammates wouldn't have to take a hit in their sponsorship clearly shows he doesn't give a shit. Exactly. I'm extremely disgusted how pathetic this community has gotten. Be disgusted with how far some people have to go in order to make themselves "entertaining".
Have to go what?
It's who he is, he isn't "Going" anywhere...that's the point. Stop crying already. Even if you hate him complain to Quantic not the sponsors.
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Right that ones over, neck beard's across the sc2 community are sharpening the prongs on their pitchforks and waiting for their next prey.
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EPT
