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It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..?
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I think 7.5 years is a bit harsh. The killing blow in my opinion is giving up the jury trial for the bench trial. If your going to fight a case, never put it in the hands of the Judge. It just blows my mind.
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On April 25 2012 22:15 BioNova wrote:
I think 7.5 years is a bit harsh. The killing blow in my opinion is giving up the jury trial for the bench trial. If your going to fight a case, never put it in the hands of the Judge. It just blows my mind.
Well, his right to that kind of trial was waved before declaring him guilty.
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On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..?
And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society.
Many in the US still support capital punishment, whereas many Europeans are outraged at the idea. But that doesn't mean the US justice system is backwards or broken, just that there are different value systems.
Not all Americans agree with how our court systems function or how our laws define crimes; but each individual still is afforded council, specific protections laid out in the bill of rights, and the right to a fair trial by jury. That doesn't constitute "backwards"
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On April 25 2012 23:08 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:15 BioNova wrote:
I think 7.5 years is a bit harsh. The killing blow in my opinion is giving up the jury trial for the bench trial. If your going to fight a case, never put it in the hands of the Judge. It just blows my mind. Well, his right to that kind of trial was waved before declaring him guilty.
The only person who can do that is the accused. If the crimes you are charged for are enough to warrant a prison sentence, you have the right to a jury trial. He did it to himself is my point., or worse yet, his lawyer 'tagged and bagged' him with bad advice. The court cannot force you into a bench trial in state courts on any felony level offense.
That may not be the case, but my boondoggle was one of those " no no don't do it!!!!" "aww you did it now, gg". Either through ignorance, or promise of a faster trial(not in the way he was expecting, I bet). I don't know if he had an appointed lawyer, or hired his own. Just can envision quite a few ways he could have made the same mistake.
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On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society.
The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail.
This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe.
Bit of a fucking difference.
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On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference.
No, he got 7 and 1/2 years for multiple counts of assault with a deadly weapon.
I would argue that putting someone in jail, not matter how long, for writing racists things on twitter is much, much worse. But that's my viewpoint based on how American culture has entrenched the idea of freedom of speech.
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On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference.
I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. In this case he could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't.
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On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't.
Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too.
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Btw, shouldnt police close the streets that are going to be used for a festival?
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On April 26 2012 00:33 dpurple wrote:
Btw, shouldnt police close the streets that are going to be used for a festival?
Yes they should, all the festivals I've been to that use streets close them and put up borders, so I'm wondering if they either forgot here or this guy just went around them.
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On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too.
Punishements for DUIs in this country are very disproportional to other dangerous crimes. I know for a while in my state, you had to get two DUIs before they would even take your license away. Just a few years ago the state legislature finally passed a law that toughened up the restrictions. There's been an effort on that front in a number of states and it's long overdue.
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On April 26 2012 00:37 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too. Punishements for DUIs in this country are very disproportional to other dangerous crimes. I know for a while in my state, you had to get two DUIs before they would even take your license away. Just a few years ago the state legislature finally passed a law that toughened up the restrictions. There's been an effort on that front in a number of states and it's long overdue.
Lane Garrison. 40 months for a dui which ended in several injuries and a death.
Guess he had a good lawyer or something because this to me seems more serious than what the student got.
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When a group of people turn into a mob, things get ugly really fast. I once handled a case where a man was dizzy, almost about to have a cardiac, and was panicking his way among the crowd. His "disadvantage" was that he looked slightly Arabic, but 100% American, so people thought he was threatening or something, so they mobbed him and held him down, while in fact he was just having a difficulty breathing and was rushing his way to the clinic just bumping people off. Luckily there where a sane doctor in the group who recognized what he was undergoing and quickly called emergency.
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On April 26 2012 01:01 Triggi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:37 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too. Punishements for DUIs in this country are very disproportional to other dangerous crimes. I know for a while in my state, you had to get two DUIs before they would even take your license away. Just a few years ago the state legislature finally passed a law that toughened up the restrictions. There's been an effort on that front in a number of states and it's long overdue. Lane Garrison. 40 months for a dui which ended in several injuries and a death. Guess he had a good lawyer or something because this to me seems more serious than what the student got.
Is this a real thing or just in movies and TV? In Finland it barely makes any difference who your lawyer is in regarding the punishment. Of course there are some complicated cases, but in no case a lawyer makes a difference from 7 year to 2 years in prison.
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On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too.
Why? Being a celebrity is irrelevant, why the stupid comments like that? A DUI is no jail time first time, possibly a few days second time, and third time it's three months (shortened from previously six months). It's handled mostly with taking away your license and imposing hefty fines. Isn't that exactly how you prefer it in Europe?
Or were you just trying to do more U.S. bashing?
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On April 26 2012 02:53 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too. Why? Being a celebrity is irrelevant, why the stupid comments like that? A DUI is no jail time first time, possibly a few days second time, and third time it's three months (shortened from previously six months). It's handled mostly with taking away your license and imposing hefty fines. Isn't that exactly how you prefer it in Europe? Or were you just trying to do more U.S. bashing?
Why is that a stupid comment? I only know how celebrities get threated in DUI cases. Because those are the people media reports about.
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On April 26 2012 01:29 Jarree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:01 Triggi wrote:On April 26 2012 00:37 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too. Punishements for DUIs in this country are very disproportional to other dangerous crimes. I know for a while in my state, you had to get two DUIs before they would even take your license away. Just a few years ago the state legislature finally passed a law that toughened up the restrictions. There's been an effort on that front in a number of states and it's long overdue. Lane Garrison. 40 months for a dui which ended in several injuries and a death. Guess he had a good lawyer or something because this to me seems more serious than what the student got. Is this a real thing or just in movies and TV? In Finland it barely makes any difference who your lawyer is in regarding the punishment. Of course there are some complicated cases, but in no case a lawyer makes a difference from 7 year to 2 years in prison.
Yes it makes a difference. The fact is that most criminal cases deal with a jury of peers. People are easily manipuated. If the person defending you is not competent and can't poke holes in the prosecution then your chances of winning decrease dramatically. I am surprised at your claim that lawyers don't matter in Finland. Does this mean that all lawyers for specific types of trials get paid the same? Why would some lawyers be more "high profile" or get paid more if their effect on the case is negligible? So having a shity lawyer won't hurt your case at all in the eyes of Finnish juries?
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On April 26 2012 03:13 dpurple wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 02:53 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too. Why? Being a celebrity is irrelevant, why the stupid comments like that? A DUI is no jail time first time, possibly a few days second time, and third time it's three months (shortened from previously six months). It's handled mostly with taking away your license and imposing hefty fines. Isn't that exactly how you prefer it in Europe? Or were you just trying to do more U.S. bashing? Why is that a stupid comment? I only know how celebrities get threated in DUI cases. Because those are the people media reports about.
Well you made it seem like the US court system was giving special treatment to celebrities in DUI cases when in reality DUI sentences are generally not very severe regardless of whether or not the person is a celebrity (though this is changing I think or hope).
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On April 26 2012 03:16 Smat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:29 Jarree wrote:On April 26 2012 01:01 Triggi wrote:On April 26 2012 00:37 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 00:28 dpurple wrote:On April 26 2012 00:24 phoenix`down wrote:On April 26 2012 00:05 scarrow wrote:On April 25 2012 23:49 TheToast wrote:On April 25 2012 21:37 Video2000 wrote:
It does seem like Americans have a hard time dealing with criticism w regards to how their justice system works (even some of the bans/warnings so far). This is obviously an absolutely wacked out insane case, but like other people ITT have mentioned, it's not the first time to hear stories like that, nor really is it a surprise. Not trolling, it just seems like there are some issues that aren't adressed..? And we say the same things about the European justice system. Putting someone in jail for writing racist twitter posts or displaying a swastika would be completely unthinkable in the US. It's not that we support racism, but the freedom of speech is deeply entrenched in our society. The difference is that the guy who posted racist twitter remarks got a sentence of 56 days in jail. This guy has gotten 7.5 years for running over someones toe. Bit of a fucking difference. I think both sentences are ridiculously long, but to me 56 days just for writing some words seems way worse than 7.5 years for running over some limbs. He could have pretty easily killed someone, accident or not, and he is lucky he didn't. Yea, just wish those celebrities with repeated DUI's got 7.5 year in jail too. Punishements for DUIs in this country are very disproportional to other dangerous crimes. I know for a while in my state, you had to get two DUIs before they would even take your license away. Just a few years ago the state legislature finally passed a law that toughened up the restrictions. There's been an effort on that front in a number of states and it's long overdue. Lane Garrison. 40 months for a dui which ended in several injuries and a death. Guess he had a good lawyer or something because this to me seems more serious than what the student got. Is this a real thing or just in movies and TV? In Finland it barely makes any difference who your lawyer is in regarding the punishment. Of course there are some complicated cases, but in no case a lawyer makes a difference from 7 year to 2 years in prison. Yes it makes a difference. The fact is that most criminal cases deal with a jury of peers. People are easily manipuated. If the person defending you is not competent and can't poke holes in the prosecution then your chances of winning decrease dramatically. I am surprised at your claim that lawyers don't matter in Finland. Does this mean that all lawyers for specific types of trials get paid the same? Why would some lawyers be more "high profile" or get paid more if their effect on the case is negligible? So having a shity lawyer won't hurt your case at all in the eyes of Finnish juries?
tbh, the publicly appointed lawyers are generally better than the high-profile lawyers. it's not really:
money = good defense
so much as:
money = dishonest defense
publicly appointed defenders are usually more honest and more legitimate, one of the only times where the government worker is better than the private industry worker.
source: my dad's a very successful DA in one of the most exclusive DA's offices in the country.
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EPT
