EPTUntil the OP updates to include all information, both supporting and refuting the guy's story, this is just another thread for attracting thoughtless US bashers
Norwegian student risks 35 years in jail in the US - Page 22
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
Until the OP updates to include all information, both supporting and refuting the guy's story, this is just another thread for attracting thoughtless US bashers | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 25 2012 10:14 FabledIntegral wrote: What celebrities have been convicted of killing someone and not spent any time in jail? And what do you mean "for what other people get 1-2 years minimum? What celebrities even need to embezzle millions? I don't follow that stuff as much as I do foreign policy though, I must admit. Roman Polanski rings a bell to me. He raped a child and found safe haven in Europe. Was terrified of coming to the US because he'd actually be charged here. On April 25 2012 11:03 Saryph wrote: Not really sure why people are surprised that a journalist would write a story horribly biased in favor of a countryman who was being prosecuted in another country for criminal acts they committed. Too bad people will instantly believe anything they read on the internet without applying critical thinking skills, it really is tiresome reading so many 'american suxs!' posts on this forum, especially when they are not warranted. Sure the usa screws up a lot, but so does everyone else, yell at them for stuff that is truly bad, not for things that make sense. While we still don't have all of the facts of this story and while I still do think that this guy isn't as innocent as people have claimed, let's be fair here. The US legal system is fucked up for two reasons, our penalties are insanely harsh compared to most European countries and our prisons aren't rehabilitation facilities. They are facilities where people who broke the law usually become hardened criminals. People are definitely overreacting to this a bit because this guy probably isn't a victim of an evil US legal system. But wouldn't Americans be just as upset if a US citizen committed a crime in a country that had even harsher penalties and even worse prisons than we do? I'd like to think we would. If it makes anyone feel better, while his sentence is 7.5 he'll probably only serve 3 maybe 4 years. Still a long ass sentence in US prisons, still probably too harsh of a sentence considering his only real crime was negligence and dangerous behavior, but really nothing to make broad generalizations about America as a whole. And if anything hopefully this can help bring light to two things. First, the US really needs to consider re-vamping it's prison and legal system to have more adequate punishments (especially for drug offenders) and we need to make our prisons for rehabilitation purposes rather than just housing people who broke laws so that they join prison gangs, get addicted to drugs, or learn how to be criminals. Second, it should help shed light to those who didn't realize it before that every country has biased media. The sheer number of Norweigans who posted on this thread claiming that their media isn't biased was astonishing to be honest. | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
On April 25 2012 12:56 overt wrote: Roman Polanski rings a bell to me. He raped a child and found safe haven in Europe. Was terrified of coming to the US because he'd actually be charged here. While we still don't have all of the facts of this story and while I still do think that this guy isn't as innocent as people have claimed, let's be fair here. The US legal system is fucked up for two reasons, our penalties are insanely harsh compared to most European countries and our prisons aren't rehabilitation facilities. They are facilities where people who broke the law usually become hardened criminals. People are definitely overreacting to this a bit because this guy probably isn't a victim of an evil US legal system. But wouldn't Americans be just as upset if a US citizen committed a crime in a country that had even harsher penalties and even worse prisons than we do? I'd like to think we would. If it makes anyone feel better, while his sentence is 7.5 he'll probably only serve 3 maybe 4 years. Still a long ass sentence in US prisons, still probably too harsh of a sentence considering his only real crime was negligence and dangerous behavior, but really nothing to make broad generalizations about America as a whole. And if anything hopefully this can help bring light to two things. First, the US really needs to consider re-vamping it's prison and legal system to have more adequate punishments (especially for drug offenders) and we need to make our prisons for rehabilitation purposes rather than just housing people who broke laws so that they join prison gangs, get addicted to drugs, or learn how to be criminals. Second, it should help shed light to those who didn't realize it before that every country has biased media. The sheer number of Norweigans who posted on this thread claiming that their media isn't biased was astonishing to be honest. http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/8467/A-man-steals-billions-and-gets-40-months-in-jail-homeless-man-takes-100-dollars-for-food-and-detox-and-gets-15-years.aspx Stuff like this is what he was referring to about celebrities I think | ||
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acerockolla
United States219 Posts
On April 25 2012 13:21 tokicheese wrote: http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/8467/A-man-steals-billions-and-gets-40-months-in-jail-homeless-man-takes-100-dollars-for-food-and-detox-and-gets-15-years.aspx Stuff like this is what he was referring to about celebrities I think Heh.. That article is just another example on how people blindly believe whatever they are told. http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/roybrown.asp Whereas there is merit behind having the money to afford a good defense, there is no comparison to be made between those two crimes as it's apple and oranges. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On April 25 2012 13:31 acerockolla wrote: Heh.. That article is just another example on how people blindly believe whatever they are told. http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/roybrown.asp Whereas there is merit behind having the money to afford a good defense, there is no comparison to be made between those two crimes as it's apple and oranges. I don't think it's that common, and bank robberies are considered to be quite the severe crime, regardless of your intentions, not that I support the ruling in any way. It was the physical robbery that mattered, I mean, if he defrauded people of $100 online it wouldn't have been near as severe. And it's not like that investor fraud guy paid off the judges or anything, he most likely just had an amazing lawyer that looked up loopholes in the system... I guess you can knock on the system for following the book to strictly rather than leaving things up for interpretation. I'd agree with that. The fear is simply inconsistencies I'd imagine. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
One thing that does bother me is the strange sentencing that seems to exist in the States, it's not all bad of course and there is variation between the states in this regard. Taking cases and comparing ridiculous sentencing isn't really fair of course, it's just hyperbolic, but at least in the media I consume I do see insane sentences handed out to Americans. As FabledIntegral pointed out, Norway seems to have a more rehabililative approach to criminal justice, the United States is more geared towards punishing offenders. When discussing the relative merits of nations, something like that is at least a concrete, definable area that is worth talking about. The stupid fucking nation bashing is ridiculous though! Granted I am currently experiencing a visceral hatred for the USA, but that's only due to the Stephano-related chant that ruins every LR thread, it'll pass! Finally, even good media outlets that cover international and domestic affairs even-handedly, seem to dole out one-sided nonsense when compatriots are imprisoned elsewhere though. This is in evidence in the UK of late with a lot of the coverage of subjects of extradition requests, especially file-sharers and the like. They're often portrayed as some kind of harmless eccentric who meant no harm and did something due to social retardation or clumsiness, interestingly not too different from the article the OP linked to! | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
On April 25 2012 13:31 acerockolla wrote: Heh.. That article is just another example on how people blindly believe whatever they are told. http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/roybrown.asp Whereas there is merit behind having the money to afford a good defense, there is no comparison to be made between those two crimes as it's apple and oranges. Is the amount of money not a factor at all? I mean that huge chunk of money came from the government and right out of your pocket. Remorse is also supposed to be important isn't it? Coming back with the money is probably the only reason the guy got caught... | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
On April 25 2012 08:23 cristo1122 wrote: http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/illinois/ilndce/1:2002cv04282/122787/117 interesting link concerning his activities in 2002 uhhhhhh yeah it seems from the glance over that he got injured because he was attacked after gawking at a young teenage girl with her parents seeing it. | ||
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ClanRH.TV
United States462 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On April 25 2012 14:26 tokicheese wrote: Is the amount of money not a factor at all? I mean that huge chunk of money came from the government and right out of your pocket. Remorse is also supposed to be important isn't it? Coming back with the money is probably the only reason the guy got caught... I mean, like I said earlier it's difficult to compare two unrelated cases and draw actual reasonable conclusions. If the case of that homeless man is as presented I wouldn't send the guy to jail. If I was that judge and I had to, at the very least I'd impose a lesser sentence given the remorse and the fact he gave himself up, surely mitigating factors when determining sentencing? That said, the lack of punishment meted out to certain members of the financial sector for blatant and rampant fraud defies belief. It's pretty clear that spending money lobbying Washington is by far the best return you're going to get for any investment. | ||
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justinpal
United States3810 Posts
On April 25 2012 12:05 Supamang wrote: How about the OP updates the OP with some of the information being posted within the thread? People are just gonna keep coming into this thread reading only the biased article and then posting some irrational, emotionally charged response about how Americans should be more rational and less emotionally charged. Until the OP updates to include all information, both supporting and refuting the guy's story, this is just another thread for attracting thoughtless US bashers Why does TL hate Americans so much? | ||
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Dyllyn
Singapore670 Posts
I think it's just a general manifestation of global dislike of america; people outside of america who like the US probably won't go out of their way to defend it, but people who do dislike the US will probably have lots to say in threads exactly like this one. And the american public does little to improve their image. Some people think the americans are stupid for their gun hugging, the hate crimes (like the trayvon martin incident), their vapid celebrities, their conservative homophobia. Are all americans this way? no. Are these baseless generalizations? yes. Are these views pervasive? yes, unfortunately. tbh the whole american football vs rugby and american football vs football thing gets my goat | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On April 25 2012 16:14 GenericTerranPlayer wrote: I think it's just a general manifestation of global dislike of america; people outside of america who like the US probably won't go out of their way to defend it, but people who do dislike the US will probably have lots to say in threads exactly like this one. And the american public does little to improve their image. Some people think the americans are stupid for their gun hugging, the hate crimes (like the trayvon martin incident), their vapid celebrities, their conservative homophobia. Are all americans this way? no. Are these baseless generalizations? yes. Are these views pervasive? yes, unfortunately. tbh the whole american football vs rugby and american football vs football thing gets my goat Yeah, not so much now but I used to be a big Americophile, and still am to a degree. I am pretty appalled at the state of politics in the States these days, but that's distinct from the populace at large. In fact I delight that there are still cultural differences between us Euros and Americans (as a generality), the world is homogenised enough as it is. For example, the intriguing differences across the Atlantic on gun rights, or why a country with a much more secular constitution than most European states turns out to be more influenced by religion. Just tell yourself that these people are as uninformed as the 'idiot' Americans that they take great delight on perpetually shitting on and it gets a lot less annoying. The most annoying complaints are about America's role in the world, and its vapid celebrity culture. Both of these criticisms can be legitimately leveled at pretty much any European country. However to acknowledge this means ceding the illusory moral high ground, which can be quite tough for some people, give them time! | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
i know youtube videos are not really accepted in these threads, but this one displays this point perfectly. If you dont want to watch all of it (although i do reccomend watching) the story of relevance starts at about 5:55. so so sad | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 25 2012 16:26 Wombat_NI wrote: Yeah, not so much now but I used to be a big Americophile, and still am to a degree. I am pretty appalled at the state of politics in the States these days, but that's distinct from the populace at large. In fact I delight that there are still cultural differences between us Euros and Americans (as a generality), the world is homogenised enough as it is. For example, the intriguing differences across the Atlantic on gun rights, or why a country with a much more secular constitution than most European states turns out to be more influenced by religion. /non-religious American America has always been religious. We were a country settled by some of the most Conservative sects of Christianity. We lucked out and became a state during a time when Deism was popular in the Aristocratic circles and thus ended up with a very secular Constitution. So we've always been incredibly religious but I think a big reason why we've had a huge number of Fundamentalists stems initially from the Cold War when Eisenhower tried to use religion to demonize the non-religious Soviet Union. Afterall, if we have "god on our side" and the Soviets have outlawed religion we're obviously the best. America became a lot more religious during the 50s. Probably a combination of the state using religion as propaganda and the fact that people were scared shitless of a nuclear war. Then combine all of that with the movement in the 80s by Jerry Fallwell and other Conservative religious leaders to mix Fundamentalist Christianity with politics and you end up in the state we're in now. The most annoying complaints are about America's role in the world, and its vapid celebrity culture. Both of these criticisms can be legitimately leveled at pretty much any European country. However to acknowledge this means ceding the illusory moral high ground, which can be quite tough for some people, give them time! I don't like our role in the world. But I do understand it from a strategic point of view. As for our celebrity culture I was always under the impression that Europeans, some parts of Asia, and those in Latin America keep up pretty well with our celebrities. Source: ex-girlfriend who moved from Central America that knew more about US celebrities and movie stars than me, the internet where people from Germany know more about celebrities than me, and Japan where Arnold Schwarzenegger makes TV commercials. Just seems ironic to dislike America because of our celebrities when many, if not most, foreigners keep up with our celebrities too. fyi, most Americans think our celebrities are idiots too. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On April 25 2012 16:36 firehand101 wrote: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79bjBt0JvVM i know youtube videos are not really accepted in these threads, but this one displays this point perfectly. If you dont want to watch all of it (although i do reccomend watching) the story of relevance starts at about 5:55. so so sad Thank you for that link, one of those occurrences where somebody articulated some vague idea I already had in my brain but hadn't yet fully fleshed out Whenever anything bad happens, it's either blame the rules constraining discretion, or blame the absence of rules that allowed individual discretion and respond accordingly. It's not a productive method of solving such issues at all. | ||
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GrandMaPwnZ.
Norway84 Posts
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
On April 25 2012 18:48 GrandMaPwnZ. wrote: I do not understand these punishments in the US. In this case you are taking what seems like a harmless guy (he's an idiot and probably a creep, but not dangerous) and making him serve 7.5 years in jail. Do you think he is going to come out harmless? Do you think he will be a better man after serving his time? You are creating crime with these ridicolously high punisments. that's capitalism for you. More crimes just means more jobs in that private jail sector, hardly a bad thing. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On April 25 2012 16:40 overt wrote: /non-religious American America has always been religious. We were a country settled by some of the most Conservative sects of Christianity. We lucked out and became a state during a time when Deism was popular in the Aristocratic circles and thus ended up with a very secular Constitution. So we've always been incredibly religious but I think a big reason why we've had a huge number of Fundamentalists stems initially from the Cold War when Eisenhower tried to use religion to demonize the non-religious Soviet Union. Afterall, if we have "god on our side" and the Soviets have outlawed religion we're obviously the best. America became a lot more religious during the 50s. Probably a combination of the state using religion as propaganda and the fact that people were scared shitless of a nuclear war. Then combine all of that with the movement in the 80s by Jerry Fallwell and other Conservative religious leaders to mix Fundamentalist Christianity with politics and you end up in the state we're in now. I don't like our role in the world. But I do understand it from a strategic point of view. As for our celebrity culture I was always under the impression that Europeans, some parts of Asia, and those in Latin America keep up pretty well with our celebrities. Source: ex-girlfriend who moved from Central America that knew more about US celebrities and movie stars than me, the internet where people from Germany know more about celebrities than me, and Japan where Arnold Schwarzenegger makes TV commercials. Just seems ironic to dislike America because of our celebrities when many, if not most, foreigners keep up with our celebrities too. fyi, most Americans think our celebrities are idiots too. I haven't met many people that dislike the US because of your celebrities, it's usually more arguments in line with "world police" "religious nuts" "ignorant rednecks" and so on (not that I agree with those sentiments). Sure there are always the people that think hollywood is destroying movies but that's not really anti-us as much as people being movie snobs.  If I turn on my television there's about as good of a chance I tune into an american tv serie or movie as it is a swedish one and our newspapers write about american celebrities all the time (at least the tabloids). Critising the US for those reasons are a bit like throwing stone in a glass house. | ||
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