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NBA Playoffs 2012 - Page 31

Forum Index > Closed
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TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 02 2012 05:55 GMT
#601
[image loading]
Remember Violet.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13443 Posts
May 02 2012 06:02 GMT
#602
On May 02 2012 14:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
Lakers!


What'd you think about Kobe today? It was a real Jekyll and Hyde game for me. His hero-mode/bricking brought the Nugs back into the game in the fourth.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13443 Posts
May 02 2012 06:03 GMT
#603
Haha--Bosh-bombed.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
iKill[ShocK]
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Vietnam3530 Posts
May 02 2012 06:17 GMT
#604
i think kobe's style puts more control into the tempo of the game, it can't be a run fest where the nugs will just crush lakers. He just needs to learn when to shoot&pass, i think he was like 9/12 FG in the first half or something. And lakers still need a defensive minded PG who can defend the 1, Lawson dropped 25 on 64% shooting. And what the hell happened to Fernandez and Chandler on the Nugs?
<3 Kim Taeyeon
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16125 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 10:37:28
May 02 2012 10:27 GMT
#605
On May 02 2012 15:02 RowdierBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 14:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
Lakers!


What'd you think about Kobe today? It was a real Jekyll and Hyde game for me. His hero-mode/bricking brought the Nugs back into the game in the fourth.


I don't know.

I saw a ton of holes in the Lakers play today other than just Kobe's shot selection that gave away that 18 point lead. Namely Denver's offensive rebounding and very poor transition defense.

It's always a chicken and the egg question when it comes to this stuff. Does the Lakers offense start to stagnate before Kobe starts shooting a lot, or does Kobe's shooting stagnate the offense? Tonight it wasn't really clear to me.

Also you have to consider that a lot of Kobe's shots came late in the shot clock as part of half court offense. The shots he takes that always bug me are the ones that are way early in the shot clock in semi-transition. Today his shots were usually within the flow of the offense and he got a lot of his points in the paint or in the post.

The thing that matters to me most though, is that Kobe made the shots that counted down the stretch and the Lakers came away with the win. He's a popular fall guy and scapegoat for others though and I understand why as much as I don't agree with it most times.

However between Kobe's 38 and Bynum's 27 they scored about 60% of the team's points in just two players. To me that's usually indicative of poor all around offense than it is Kobe hogging the ball. The team missed a lot of easy shots and Kobe tonight was really the only perimeter threat all game which is a common trend throughout the regular season.

Still. After absolutely dominating the first game, today's victory as sloppy as it was doesn't concern me TOO much.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
May 02 2012 13:55 GMT
#606
On May 02 2012 14:55 TwoToneTerran wrote:
[image loading]

omg ahahah, the way he turns his eyes is incredibly scary.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
May 02 2012 16:10 GMT
#607
Kobe is 100% He's making a bid for the best player in the nba, no excuses this year for kobe if the lakers get beat by miami.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
BlueRoyaL
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
United States2493 Posts
May 02 2012 16:23 GMT
#608
On May 03 2012 01:10 rei wrote:
Kobe is 100% He's making a bid for the best player in the nba, no excuses this year for kobe if the lakers get beat by miami.


not sure if serious or not lol. kobe definitely has some specific skill sets than lebron but at least for this year, lebrons proven without doubt that he is at the top. effectiveness, efficiency, getting his team involved, etc.

i really like kobe a lot but to say hes the best player seems like a stretch
WHAT'S HAPPENIN
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
May 02 2012 16:30 GMT
#609
dead serious, read what you quote, i am not saying he's the best player, i'm saying he's going to prove he's the best player by winning the nba championship. Bite me.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
justinpal
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3810 Posts
May 02 2012 16:56 GMT
#610
Lebron has not proven shit. The only thing he proved is that he knows how to choke.
Never make a hydralisk.
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 02 2012 17:29 GMT
#611
On May 02 2012 19:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 15:02 RowdierBob wrote:
On May 02 2012 14:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
Lakers!


What'd you think about Kobe today? It was a real Jekyll and Hyde game for me. His hero-mode/bricking brought the Nugs back into the game in the fourth.


I don't know.

I saw a ton of holes in the Lakers play today other than just Kobe's shot selection that gave away that 18 point lead. Namely Denver's offensive rebounding and very poor transition defense.

It's always a chicken and the egg question when it comes to this stuff. Does the Lakers offense start to stagnate before Kobe starts shooting a lot, or does Kobe's shooting stagnate the offense? Tonight it wasn't really clear to me.

Also you have to consider that a lot of Kobe's shots came late in the shot clock as part of half court offense. The shots he takes that always bug me are the ones that are way early in the shot clock in semi-transition. Today his shots were usually within the flow of the offense and he got a lot of his points in the paint or in the post.

The thing that matters to me most though, is that Kobe made the shots that counted down the stretch and the Lakers came away with the win. He's a popular fall guy and scapegoat for others though and I understand why as much as I don't agree with it most times.

However between Kobe's 38 and Bynum's 27 they scored about 60% of the team's points in just two players. To me that's usually indicative of poor all around offense than it is Kobe hogging the ball. The team missed a lot of easy shots and Kobe tonight was really the only perimeter threat all game which is a common trend throughout the regular season.

Still. After absolutely dominating the first game, today's victory as sloppy as it was doesn't concern me TOO much.


I generally didn't have a problem with how Kobe played either. It's hard to say he shouldn't be attacking when he's having such a good shooting night and Denver is opting for single coverage. It's apparent that Denver's strategy was to try to let Kobe have his while limiting what the bigs did, so Kobe took what they gave him.

A lot of the more questionable shots Kobe took were late in the game in situations where they had taken too long to initiate their offense and were left with an expiring shotblock. Personally, I think the Lakers took the whole "slow the pace" idea a little too far near the end, as they started walking the ball up the court and not initiating their offense until 8-10 seconds had already passed on the shotblock. That led to insufficient time to properly feed the post, and then take advantage of the collapsing defense.

Kobe taking over was also necessary because the other Lakers weren't making their perimeter shots, i.e. Sessions, Blake, and Barnes. Surpisingly, Ebanks was the one who consistently knocked down open jumpers this game, which was key even though he was taking long 2's and not 3's. With the Nuggets collapsing so much on the bigs all game, Kobe was arguably a better option. He just started to struggle when they put Gallinari on him, who he should've been using his speed advantage to get around but instead opted to post and shoot contested fadeaways against.

I was impressed that Bynum managed to play so efficiently again this game, despite the extra attention he was getting all night from Denver. That's two straight games with great FG% and almost no TO's. His defense and rebounding were not as impressive as I'd have liked, but part of that was the Lakers losing sight of their gameplan and allowing the Nuggets to get out and run.

Gasol had a great game I thought, playing good defense, hitting his perimeter shots, and playmaking as well as any PG. That one play where he received an inbound pass from Barnes at halfcourt and drove the ball down the court like a 7' guard to dish it to Bynum was beautiful and served as a reminder of just how versatile and skilled he is.

Really liking how Ebanks is playing, he just needs to work on his FT shooting. Blake had one of those extremely frustrating games where he contributed almost nothing except TO's and missed 3's. Barnes was pretty much a non-factor, but did the little things here and there. Hill continues to be a great energy big off the bench, and is meshing so well and so quickly with Bynum and Gasol. Sessions had a solid game, and I'm glad that he wasn't afraid to make big plays at the end of the game when the Nuggets started focusing back on Kobe.

The Lakers definitely got an idea of how easily they can lose to Denver if they let them run and get careless on offense, so hopefully they'll take the lesson to heart and re-focus in Game 3. I'm glad they're going to Denver up 2-0, because I was really concerned they'd let Game 2 slip due to overconfidence from the first game and because Denver is the type of team that can punish a complacent or unfocused component. I feel good about the Lakers chances because Denver still has no answer for their size, and the Lakers are getting solid contributions from their role players. I just hope Kobe doesn't take the first two games as a green light for him to overdo things in the next few games, as they are doing great working from the inside out.
Moderator
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 17:32:13
May 02 2012 17:30 GMT
#612
There's no way that Kobe is a better player than Lebron this year. He's too close to the end of his career for that. What he's trying to do is chase history and move up on the greatest of all time rankings. He badly wants to tie Jordan's 6 championships.

It seems like he ran out of gas in the 4th quarter last night.
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 18:04:39
May 02 2012 17:55 GMT
#613
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 02 2012 19:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 15:02 RowdierBob wrote:
On May 02 2012 14:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
Lakers!


What'd you think about Kobe today? It was a real Jekyll and Hyde game for me. His hero-mode/bricking brought the Nugs back into the game in the fourth.


I don't know.

I saw a ton of holes in the Lakers play today other than just Kobe's shot selection that gave away that 18 point lead. Namely Denver's offensive rebounding and very poor transition defense.

It's always a chicken and the egg question when it comes to this stuff. Does the Lakers offense start to stagnate before Kobe starts shooting a lot, or does Kobe's shooting stagnate the offense? Tonight it wasn't really clear to me.

Also you have to consider that a lot of Kobe's shots came late in the shot clock as part of half court offense. The shots he takes that always bug me are the ones that are way early in the shot clock in semi-transition. Today his shots were usually within the flow of the offense and he got a lot of his points in the paint or in the post.

The thing that matters to me most though, is that Kobe made the shots that counted down the stretch and the Lakers came away with the win. He's a popular fall guy and scapegoat for others though and I understand why as much as I don't agree with it most times.

However between Kobe's 38 and Bynum's 27 they scored about 60% of the team's points in just two players. To me that's usually indicative of poor all around offense than it is Kobe hogging the ball. The team missed a lot of easy shots and Kobe tonight was really the only perimeter threat all game which is a common trend throughout the regular season.

Still. After absolutely dominating the first game, today's victory as sloppy as it was doesn't concern me TOO much.

I agree with both you guys. The chicken and egg question doesn't apply anymore though, imo, because we know the tempo of the offense mostly comes down to Kobe. Give the ball into the big guys, let them work, or if the double team comes then let them kick it out and create space out there for everybody else. If Kobe doesn't let that happen, he puts more pressure/work on himself than he has to. Specially against this small Denver team there is no reason for him not to let their offense run that way. He was efficient yest., so not too much I can say on yest.

Offensive rebounding from Denver and poor transition defense is true. Although, I was distracted for most of the game I think the reason is pace of game and shot selection. I will also say that Bynum also still spaces out or looks sluggish down there on D/rebounding on some plays, even though he has improved a lot.

The first half was terrible for offensive rebounds, even if Denver does have the manimal(and they all know they have to TRY to win rebound battle vs LAL to have a chance) the Lakers still have a size edge. Looks like Mike Brown told them something about the boards at the half b/c it got better in the 2nd but then they were just giving up open shots in turn. They are lucky Denver didn't hit some more of those.

The terrible transition D is tricky. On one hand, they are playing Denver, which is a good fast-break team and a team that knows it has to RUN on the Lakers any chance they can get in order to have a chance. On the other hand, it comes down to the Lakers' shot selection and the pace of the game. If they control the pace of the game then they don't have to play as much transition D with their two 7-footers, while also giving them time to come back and set up for better rebounds. The rebounds and transition D was all somewhat related to me.

Lakeshow, with those two 7-footers, AND if they play good defense, can be hard to stop. In my mind it will come down to mostly 3 things(take it however you want):
1. Kobe's shot selection. Can he mostly stay within the rythm of the offense?
2. Bench and the non-Big 3. Can they come through night in, night out? At least enough to hold for starters?
3. Bynum and how he handles double and triple teams. How many turnovers does he get?

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 03 2012 02:29 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 19:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
On May 02 2012 15:02 RowdierBob wrote:
On May 02 2012 14:51 Vindicare605 wrote:
Lakers!


What'd you think about Kobe today? It was a real Jekyll and Hyde game for me. His hero-mode/bricking brought the Nugs back into the game in the fourth.


I don't know.

I saw a ton of holes in the Lakers play today other than just Kobe's shot selection that gave away that 18 point lead. Namely Denver's offensive rebounding and very poor transition defense.

It's always a chicken and the egg question when it comes to this stuff. Does the Lakers offense start to stagnate before Kobe starts shooting a lot, or does Kobe's shooting stagnate the offense? Tonight it wasn't really clear to me.

Also you have to consider that a lot of Kobe's shots came late in the shot clock as part of half court offense. The shots he takes that always bug me are the ones that are way early in the shot clock in semi-transition. Today his shots were usually within the flow of the offense and he got a lot of his points in the paint or in the post.

The thing that matters to me most though, is that Kobe made the shots that counted down the stretch and the Lakers came away with the win. He's a popular fall guy and scapegoat for others though and I understand why as much as I don't agree with it most times.

However between Kobe's 38 and Bynum's 27 they scored about 60% of the team's points in just two players. To me that's usually indicative of poor all around offense than it is Kobe hogging the ball. The team missed a lot of easy shots and Kobe tonight was really the only perimeter threat all game which is a common trend throughout the regular season.

Still. After absolutely dominating the first game, today's victory as sloppy as it was doesn't concern me TOO much.


I generally didn't have a problem with how Kobe played either. It's hard to say he shouldn't be attacking when he's having such a good shooting night and Denver is opting for single coverage. It's apparent that Denver's strategy was to try to let Kobe have his while limiting what the bigs did, so Kobe took what they gave him.

A lot of the more questionable shots Kobe took were late in the game in situations where they had taken too long to initiate their offense and were left with an expiring shotblock. Personally, I think the Lakers took the whole "slow the pace" idea a little too far near the end, as they started walking the ball up the court and not initiating their offense until 8-10 seconds had already passed on the shotblock. That led to insufficient time to properly feed the post, and then take advantage of the collapsing defense.

Kobe taking over was also necessary because the other Lakers weren't making their perimeter shots, i.e. Sessions, Blake, and Barnes. Surpisingly, Ebanks was the one who consistently knocked down open jumpers this game, which was key even though he was taking long 2's and not 3's. With the Nuggets collapsing so much on the bigs all game, Kobe was arguably a better option. He just started to struggle when they put Gallinari on him, who he should've been using his speed advantage to get around but instead opted to post and shoot contested fadeaways against.

I was impressed that Bynum managed to play so efficiently again this game, despite the extra attention he was getting all night from Denver. That's two straight games with great FG% and almost no TO's. His defense and rebounding were not as impressive as I'd have liked, but part of that was the Lakers losing sight of their gameplan and allowing the Nuggets to get out and run.

Gasol had a great game I thought, playing good defense, hitting his perimeter shots, and playmaking as well as any PG. That one play where he received an inbound pass from Barnes at halfcourt and drove the ball down the court like a 7' guard to dish it to Bynum was beautiful and served as a reminder of just how versatile and skilled he is.

Really liking how Ebanks is playing, he just needs to work on his FT shooting. Blake had one of those extremely frustrating games where he contributed almost nothing except TO's and missed 3's. Barnes was pretty much a non-factor, but did the little things here and there. Hill continues to be a great energy big off the bench, and is meshing so well and so quickly with Bynum and Gasol. Sessions had a solid game, and I'm glad that he wasn't afraid to make big plays at the end of the game when the Nuggets started focusing back on Kobe.

The Lakers definitely got an idea of how easily they can lose to Denver if they let them run and get careless on offense, so hopefully they'll take the lesson to heart and re-focus in Game 3. I'm glad they're going to Denver up 2-0, because I was really concerned they'd let Game 2 slip due to overconfidence from the first game and because Denver is the type of team that can punish a complacent or unfocused component. I feel good about the Lakers chances because Denver still has no answer for their size, and the Lakers are getting solid contributions from their role players. I just hope Kobe doesn't take the first two games as a green light for him to overdo things in the next few games, as they are doing great working from the inside out.

didn't see this before I posted, but right on.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 02 2012 18:35 GMT
#614
On May 03 2012 02:30 andrewlt wrote:
There's no way that Kobe is a better player than Lebron this year. He's too close to the end of his career for that. What he's trying to do is chase history and move up on the greatest of all time rankings. He badly wants to tie Jordan's 6 championships.

It seems like he ran out of gas in the 4th quarter last night.


Just out of curiosity, how do you compare Kobe and Lebron for this season (both regular season and playoffs) if the Lakers end up winning the championship? Obviously, Lebron has had a monstrous regular season, but how far does that go if he's unable to lead the team to a championship again despite a severely depleted Eastern conference (Bulls w/o Rose, Magic w/o D12, Celtics aging and dealing with health issues) and a Western conference with no clear favorite?

Kobe's performance during this regular season has been impressive as well, and he arguably has had to deal with more adversity, i.e. new coach and system, major roster changes throughout the season, impacted schedule with less to rest and practice, etc. He's older and can't be said to have a better roster around him.

If Kobe manages to lead the team to another championship, wouldn't that potentially make him the better player this season? Isn't the goal of every season is to win a championship, not to dominate a regular season?
Moderator
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
May 02 2012 18:42 GMT
#615
I will enjoy watching James and Wade take 18ft jumpshots and 3s over and over for the entirety of the finals. They did that vs Tyson Chandler last year, will do it again this year vs Bynum and Pau. Fun times.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Bonzinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Slovenia862 Posts
May 02 2012 19:13 GMT
#616
On May 03 2012 03:42 rei wrote:
I will enjoy watching James and Wade take 18ft jumpshots and 3s over and over for the entirety of the finals. They did that vs Tyson Chandler last year, will do it again this year vs Bynum and Pau. Fun times.


Won't happen again, i am pritty sure that was showed thru out the regular season.
Dallas was playing zone and forced those threes and there was not enough drives to the basket so your whole team was just standing and waiting for something to happen.
I really doubt they are going to sattle for threes. It just won't happen.
They got role players that can knock them down with batter % then LBJ and Wade.
If the ball movement will be good, you will see a lot of drives to the cup. Get those FT going and its OK.
Playing 1 year together and understanding what went wrong last year will deliver another approach i am sure about that.
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
May 02 2012 19:19 GMT
#617
On May 03 2012 04:13 Bonzinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 03:42 rei wrote:
I will enjoy watching James and Wade take 18ft jumpshots and 3s over and over for the entirety of the finals. They did that vs Tyson Chandler last year, will do it again this year vs Bynum and Pau. Fun times.


Won't happen again, i am pritty sure that was showed thru out the regular season.
Dallas was playing zone and forced those threes and there was not enough drives to the basket so your whole team was just standing and waiting for something to happen.
I really doubt they are going to sattle for threes. It just won't happen.
They got role players that can knock them down with batter % then LBJ and Wade.
If the ball movement will be good, you will see a lot of drives to the cup. Get those FT going and its OK.
Playing 1 year together and understanding what went wrong last year will deliver another approach i am sure about that.

and if not, they might have to bring Riley down from the office again haha.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 02 2012 19:21 GMT
#618
On May 03 2012 03:42 rei wrote:
I will enjoy watching James and Wade take 18ft jumpshots and 3s over and over for the entirety of the finals. They did that vs Tyson Chandler last year, will do it again this year vs Bynum and Pau. Fun times.


Making a few assumptions there aren't we? :p

I remarked earlier in the thread that it looked like Kobe was getting his points pretty easily in the game last night. I guess my attention trailed off during the Nuggets' comeback. I also keyed in on a sequence where Bynum was getting double teamed and the offense really didn't know what to do. The easy solution to this might be to just always make sure that he catches the ball deep.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 19:22:14
May 02 2012 19:21 GMT
#619
On May 03 2012 03:42 rei wrote:
I will enjoy watching James and Wade take 18ft jumpshots and 3s over and over for the entirety of the finals. They did that vs Tyson Chandler last year, will do it again this year vs Bynum and Pau. Fun times.


Wade was living in the paint vs Dallas. Lebron wasn't shooting at all. Seriously, Tyson Chandler is good and all but people are really blowing is defense out of the water vs Miami. Time after time Wade got to the rim and got whatever he wanted WITH Chandler in the game.

If Kevin Garnett and Dwight Howard can't stop Wade/Lebron why would anyone think Tyson Chandler has a chance?

and now Bynum and Pau Gasol will too?

/facepalm

I swear people just make shit up.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-02 22:18:00
May 02 2012 19:22 GMT
#620
On May 03 2012 04:13 Bonzinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 03:42 rei wrote:
I will enjoy watching James and Wade take 18ft jumpshots and 3s over and over for the entirety of the finals. They did that vs Tyson Chandler last year, will do it again this year vs Bynum and Pau. Fun times.


Won't happen again, i am pritty sure that was showed thru out the regular season.
Dallas was playing zone and forced those threes and there was not enough drives to the basket so your whole team was just standing and waiting for something to happen.
I really doubt they are going to sattle for threes. It just won't happen.
They got role players that can knock them down with batter % then LBJ and Wade.
If the ball movement will be good, you will see a lot of drives to the cup. Get those FT going and its OK.
Playing 1 year together and understanding what went wrong last year will deliver another approach i am sure about that.


Yea the change has been evident this season. Dono about the finals last year but theyve actively avoided taking the jumpers which is part of the reason they are so much scarier this season as far as Im concerned. I dont think Gasol has much of a fear factor against them but Bynum could do a little bit, not much. This is all assuming that actually ends up being a finals.

As for whos the better player. Depends on what you mean by player. If you just go by all round game or just general talent offensive and defensive skill or stats whatever measure that doesnt include intangibles no one, not even Kobe comes close to Lebron. Lebrons got everything cept a proven Championship winning mentality. That may well change this season aswell. Theres not much to discuss really cuz itll just wind down into some sort of Kobe or Lebron bashing with random stats thrown everywhere to prove a point.



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