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On May 23 2012 11:02 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:00 itkovian wrote:On May 23 2012 10:47 Ace wrote:
When they asked Wade about it he mentioned the Miami Heat does that every year to open up the season for their fans. If LeBron wants to promise chips at an event for MIAMI HEAT fans then so be it - it doesn't concern you. He didn't say it during a nationally televised interview during a game, he didn't say it a press conference. Of all places to say it that was it. Get mad at him all you want but to try and pass judgement on something so silly as that is ridiculous when it wasn't even meant for you.
So what if he said people can wake up and go back to their lives? After all the shit he has been through why not. If at every turn people are rooting for you to lose, hiding behind "The Decision" when they are more upset you teamed up with Wade I'd be prickly too. People are downright pathetic and I'm glad he told people that life goes on whether he wins or loses. I don't really get what this means. So people can say/do whatever they want as long as their words are directed somewhere else? That seems like kind of a weak argument. While I can see how it is frustrating that everyone band-wagon hates on Lebron, we should be allowed to root for, or against, who we want. It makes the NBA more entertaining when I can find teams to root against. I root against the Heat because I see them as the favored opponent, should I feel ashamed for that? Exactly, I think storylines are good and fans love to make them. Durant and the Thunder especially are seen as the "good guys" while the Heat are the bad, same for the Spurs if the finals comes to that. The truth of the matter probably lies somewhere in the middle, but never has there been a team like the Heat that has done so many things to make people hate them lol.
Woa- Stop right there! The Thunder are not the good guys!
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I'm from Seattle... haha
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On May 23 2012 11:08 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:00 itkovian wrote:On May 23 2012 10:47 Ace wrote:
When they asked Wade about it he mentioned the Miami Heat does that every year to open up the season for their fans. If LeBron wants to promise chips at an event for MIAMI HEAT fans then so be it - it doesn't concern you. He didn't say it during a nationally televised interview during a game, he didn't say it a press conference. Of all places to say it that was it. Get mad at him all you want but to try and pass judgement on something so silly as that is ridiculous when it wasn't even meant for you.
So what if he said people can wake up and go back to their lives? After all the shit he has been through why not. If at every turn people are rooting for you to lose, hiding behind "The Decision" when they are more upset you teamed up with Wade I'd be prickly too. People are downright pathetic and I'm glad he told people that life goes on whether he wins or loses. I don't really get what this means. So people can say/do whatever they want as long as their words are directed somewhere else? That seems like kind of a weak argument. While I can see how it is frustrating that everyone band-wagon hates on Lebron, we should be allowed to root for, or against, who we want. It makes the NBA more entertaining when I can find teams to root against. I root against the Heat because I see them as the favored opponent, should I feel ashamed for that? ??? How did you get to that conclusion? LeBron made a statement at a Miami Heat fan pep rally. It wasn't meant for non-Miami Heat fans. It would be like somebody getting mad at a Chinese diplomat making pro-China statements but being a US Citizen. It's got nothing to do with you. You can root for whoever or against whoever you want. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the downright stupid reasons people try to justify to hate a player or team. Like when I called out the guy on what it means that Miami "stacked the deck". We've had this same argument last year where people believe players shouldn't be able to team up together because they are in their primes.
Another example I thought of was the Howard Dean incident, the guy got really excited at a rally after he won some state primary, and I'd say the public castigation of the guy (for the rant he went on) said more about society's crazy negativity and harsh, judgmental nature than it did about Dean as a person, same idea with LeBron imo
Edit: hm no, evidently it was a speech to try to pump up the crowd after a disappointing loss at the Iowa primary, and it was a mic issue+sore throat from a flu that caused the apparently crazy speech. Point still stands though :x
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United States3423 Posts
On May 23 2012 10:55 Ace wrote:well...he was open 
5 on 4 take a three is fine. Some people complain about everything.
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On May 23 2012 11:12 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 10:55 Ace wrote:On May 23 2012 10:54 Telcontar wrote:
5 vs 4
take a 3.
-_- well...he was open 5 on 4 take a three is fine. Some people complain about everything.
What about taking a three and not driving against someone with one shoe?
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Braavos36383 Posts
On May 23 2012 11:05 Ace wrote:
If Shaq did it and didn't get any flak for it that should be reason enough to tell you people were only upset with it because it was LeBron James. It's as simple as that. Doesn't matter if it was televised - It is a Miami Heat event, in Miami, for Miami Heat fans. When Carmelo Anthony came to New York the entire city was screaming championship, at NY media days Stat was talking about winning a chip and guess what? No one gave a shit. Why? Because everyone wants to hear their best players talk about winning.
He got flak for it because he was Lebron James yes? Is that something that is supposed to be unfair? Shaq is a multiple championship center who promised a ring. He's been there before, he knows what it takes. He promised just one, not seven, and he didn't do what Lebron did with the Decision. Are you saying the manner Lebron conducts himself and how he says things and his previous actions shouldn't impact how fans view them? Obviously fans were upset with it because it was Lebron, it's what he does and says and his personality.
Are you really comparing the difference between two guys joining a team and saying "our goal is to win a championship" and a guy who says it will be easy and promises "not one.. not two... not seven" championships? If Lebron had said "we're going to win it next year" he wouldn't have even gotten even a fraction of the hate.
Except if you're LeBron James. I guess making millions of dollars gives people an excuse to be dicks to you for an entire year. He's a pretty likeable guy off the court based on his mega popularity all over the world, but I guess making a decision that people don't like and telling people to get off your balls after taking their shit for an entire year is bad. I defend the guy because I see the stupidity of what fans do. Yea it's sports - but that doesn't mean we should just turn a blind eye to the nonsense that comes with it.
So what you're saying is, he is pretty likable because of his popularity, then doing something fans saw was dickish and horrible would turn them against him? Yes, that much is obvious.
"The Decision" was almost universally criticized and turned one of the most liked and marketable athletes into one of the most hated. And it wasn't because he left Cleveland, because I even agreed with him there, most people did. I even kind of applauded the NBA free agents for doing it, it symbolically seized power back from the billionaire owners. It was kind of cool.
What people hated was the way he did it, the arrogance, the media event, the dragging it on, leaving Cleveland in the dark. A classy way to leave is the way Z did it, look how much people still love him, even in Cleveland, and he plays for the same team, the Heat. Big Z said goodbye, I really want to win a championship, took out a full page ad thanking the city, and left. He's universally loved.
If Lebron had just said hey Cleveland, "I tried, I really did, I couldn't do it, I'm sorry I couldn't bring a championship. It was a great experience representing you all. I'm going to move on now." Nobody would say shit. He'd literally have NO haters. Instead he went the way he did with the Decision. When athletes do dickish, arrogant things, fans hate them. I see this as a perfectly reasonable reaction from many fans with no attachment to the Heat, why is that so stupid again?
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lol I thought Lebron was always considered less likable off-court than on? I mean think about the business with his manager and making demands for the firing of Mike Brown (after both Orlando and Boston), the whole getting dunked on by a high-school student and then stealing the tape, the not-shaking hands and calling out the magic as trash players, Team USA getting pissed as fuck over his 2004 Athens and 2006 WC attitudes...I mean the dude was cited as being immature and downright disrespectful to staffers in China
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United States3423 Posts
On May 23 2012 11:14 OreoBoi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:12 slyboogie wrote:On May 23 2012 10:55 Ace wrote:On May 23 2012 10:54 Telcontar wrote:
5 vs 4
take a 3.
-_- well...he was open 5 on 4 take a three is fine. Some people complain about everything. What about taking a three and not driving against someone with one shoe?
Open three on a 5 on 4 fine. You aren't going to get the advantage in the paint of a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 but you still get good spacing. It was fine.
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Lebron was kidding when he promised 7/8 rings, anyone watching the video can see that. He basically just promised 2 or more, which is still a lot
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Braavos36383 Posts
On May 23 2012 11:16 Whatson wrote:
lol I thought Lebron was always considered less likable off-court than on? I mean think about the 2007 All-star weekend business with his manager, the whole getting dunked on by a high-school student and then stealing the tape, the not-shaking hands and calling out the magic as trash players, Team USA getting pissed as fuck over his 2004 Athens and 2006 WC attitudes...I mean the dude was cited as being immature and downright disrespectful to staffers in China while others went out of their way to go around their business modestly without barking orders and making demands.
This is true but he was quite a bit more likable in high school and when he first came into the league. Plus he does have a sense of humor (or a well crafted one by Nike) given the commercials he's been in.
Over the years, with so many people around him sucking up constantly, I think he just changed. If you read the stories about him being a diva in Cleveland, the stuff they did to empower him and spoil him, the crazy egotistical shit he pulled, if just a fraction of that shit was true it's pretty ridiculous.
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What was Chalmers thinking with that one lol? Even the crowd was like O_O
playoff basketball pretty rough
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United States3423 Posts
On May 23 2012 11:15 Hot_Bid wrote:
If Lebron had just said hey Cleveland, "I tried, I really did, I couldn't do it, I'm sorry I couldn't bring a championship. It was a great experience representing you all. I'm going to move on now." Nobody would say shit. He'd literally have NO haters. Instead he went the way he did with the Decision. When athletes do dickish, arrogant things, fans hate them. I see this as a perfectly reasonable reaction from many fans with no attachment to the Heat, why is that so stupid again?
I think it's this stuff that's annoying. No one will ever say that. And the "fans" who demanded this sort of humility and debasement are trying to construct a silly narrative. The defeated son walks off into the sunset having failed his people. But they still love him for his grace and measure. The Decision was tone-deaf and a PR nightmare and Jim Gray is a cock. But hating Lebron James for an hour of television? Settle down, people were going to hate his decision regardless.
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On May 23 2012 11:08 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:00 itkovian wrote:On May 23 2012 10:47 Ace wrote:
When they asked Wade about it he mentioned the Miami Heat does that every year to open up the season for their fans. If LeBron wants to promise chips at an event for MIAMI HEAT fans then so be it - it doesn't concern you. He didn't say it during a nationally televised interview during a game, he didn't say it a press conference. Of all places to say it that was it. Get mad at him all you want but to try and pass judgement on something so silly as that is ridiculous when it wasn't even meant for you.
So what if he said people can wake up and go back to their lives? After all the shit he has been through why not. If at every turn people are rooting for you to lose, hiding behind "The Decision" when they are more upset you teamed up with Wade I'd be prickly too. People are downright pathetic and I'm glad he told people that life goes on whether he wins or loses. I don't really get what this means. So people can say/do whatever they want as long as their words are directed somewhere else? That seems like kind of a weak argument. While I can see how it is frustrating that everyone band-wagon hates on Lebron, we should be allowed to root for, or against, who we want. It makes the NBA more entertaining when I can find teams to root against. I root against the Heat because I see them as the favored opponent, should I feel ashamed for that? ??? How did you get to that conclusion? LeBron made a statement at a Miami Heat fan pep rally. It wasn't meant for non-Miami Heat fans. It would be like somebody getting mad at a Chinese diplomat making pro-China statements but being a US Citizen. It's got nothing to do with you.You can root for whoever or against whoever you want. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the downright stupid reasons people try to justify to hate a player or team. Like when I called out the guy on what it means that Miami "stacked the deck". We've had this same argument last year where people believe players shouldn't be able to team up together because they are in their primes.
That still doesn't make much sense to me. Even if its said behind close doors, it doesn't mean I can't take displeasure against what is said. What if at the heat rally they were shit-talking the rest of the conference, or talking about how all the other fans, besides Miami fans, were idiots. You can't tell me not to get offended just because it was directed towards Miami fans.
Obviously, thats not what Lebron did. But what he did do is talk confidently, or arrogantly, about how they would succeed. Can you not see how that would bred a sense of "i'll show you" feeling among fans of other teams?
I don't think many people legitimately "hate" on the heat. If I saw Lebron on the street, I wouldn't spit on him. I'd probably go up and shake his hand. But it is fun to root against a team especially when they're feeling cocky.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On May 23 2012 11:24 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:15 Hot_Bid wrote:
If Lebron had just said hey Cleveland, "I tried, I really did, I couldn't do it, I'm sorry I couldn't bring a championship. It was a great experience representing you all. I'm going to move on now." Nobody would say shit. He'd literally have NO haters. Instead he went the way he did with the Decision. When athletes do dickish, arrogant things, fans hate them. I see this as a perfectly reasonable reaction from many fans with no attachment to the Heat, why is that so stupid again? I think it's this stuff that's annoying. No one will ever say that. And the "fans" who demanded this sort of humility and debasement are trying to construct a silly narrative. The defeated son walks off into the sunset having failed his people. But they still love him for his grace and measure. The Decision was tone-deaf and a PR nightmare and Jim Gray is a cock. But hating Lebron James for an hour of television? Settle down, people were going to hate his decision regardless.
A few, sure, but not all, and certainly not as many. In fact, most (including level headed cleveland fans) would've been fine because they knew Lebron badly wanted a ring and cleveland was holding him back.
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On May 23 2012 11:15 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:05 Ace wrote:
If Shaq did it and didn't get any flak for it that should be reason enough to tell you people were only upset with it because it was LeBron James. It's as simple as that. Doesn't matter if it was televised - It is a Miami Heat event, in Miami, for Miami Heat fans. When Carmelo Anthony came to New York the entire city was screaming championship, at NY media days Stat was talking about winning a chip and guess what? No one gave a shit. Why? Because everyone wants to hear their best players talk about winning. He got flak for it because he was Lebron James yes? Is that something that is supposed to be unfair? Shaq is a multiple championship center who promised a ring. He's been there before, he knows what it takes. He promised just one, not seven, and he didn't do what Lebron did with the Decision. Are you saying the manner Lebron conducts himself and how he says things and his previous actions shouldn't impact how fans view them? Obviously fans were upset with it because it was Lebron, it's what he does and says and his personality.
So when LeBron promised Cleveland a championship where was the backlash? There wasn't one!
LeBron was one of the most liked athletes in the world before The Decision. Don't act like the guy just all of a sudden turned into an asshole in one night. Shaq winning a chip gives him an excuse to say things like that? Wow, sign me up then. Because Garnett when he went to Boston DID say the Celtics were going to win a chip (like he said every year) and no one said a word. At the time, Garnett had the same amount of rings as LeBron.
Are you really comparing the difference between two guys joining a team and saying "our goal is to win a championship" and a guy who says it will be easy and promises "not one.. not two... not seven" championships? If Lebron had said "we're going to win it next year" he wouldn't have even gotten even a fraction of the hate.
When did Lebron say it would be easy? Where?
Except if you're LeBron James. I guess making millions of dollars gives people an excuse to be dicks to you for an entire year. He's a pretty likeable guy off the court based on his mega popularity all over the world, but I guess making a decision that people don't like and telling people to get off your balls after taking their shit for an entire year is bad. I defend the guy because I see the stupidity of what fans do. Yea it's sports - but that doesn't mean we should just turn a blind eye to the nonsense that comes with it.
So what you're saying is, he is pretty likable because of his popularity, then doing something fans saw was dickish and horrible would turn them against him? Yes, that much is obvious.
"The Decision" was almost universally criticized and turned one of the most liked and marketable athletes into one of the most hated. And it wasn't because he left Cleveland, because I even agreed with him there, most people did. I even kind of applauded the NBA free agents for doing it, it symbolically seized power back from the billionaire owners. It was kind of cool.
What people hated was the way he did it, the arrogance, the media event, the dragging it on, leaving Cleveland in the dark. A classy way to leave is the way Z did it, look how much people still love him, even in Cleveland, and he plays for the same team, the Heat. Big Z said goodbye, I really want to win a championship, took out a full page ad thanking the city, and left. He's universally loved.
If Lebron had just said hey Cleveland, "I tried, I really did, I couldn't do it, I'm sorry I couldn't bring a championship. It was a great experience representing you all. I'm going to move on now." Nobody would say shit. He'd literally have NO haters. Instead he went the way he did with the Decision. When athletes do dickish, arrogant things, fans hate them. I see this as a perfectly reasonable reaction from many fans with no attachment to the Heat, why is that so stupid again?
That's the part I don't believe. Look, I don't agree with the way he did it either. But there is no way people have so much vitriol for the guy WHO DONT EVEN LIVE IN CLEVELAND over The Decision. More people were upset with the fact that NBA player made their own power play. They were more upset that Lebron and Wade spurned their cities. Let's be for real here: LeBron could have done the same thing, picked NY and the NY media would have crushed everyone even attempting to hate on LeBron.
I personally don't care that LeBron didn't leave in a "classy way". If the Cavs didn't realize there was good chance LeBron would leave months before that point then they would be the dumbest people in sports. Clearly there was some behind the scenes issues with Lebron and Cavs management so him not giving them a heads up doesn't surprise me. It wouldn't have changed a thing. LeBron has always been about the fans and he's repeatedly been gracious to Cleveland fans post The Decision.
If Lebron said the "I tried..." stuff he would have been called a quitter, raked of coals, got the Magic/MJ would have never said that! stuff, gotten called a punk and we'd be right where we are now. The guy was in a lose/lose situation. People are hiding behind "The Decision" as their veil for hatred.
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Haslem better enjoy himself tonight because he won't be around for game 6 lol 
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I think it's stupid people try to belittle others for their opinions and prejudices as a sports fan. Womg, you hate LeBron and I don't; I'm so much better than you. You're so stupid. Hur hur hur.
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Braavos36383 Posts
On May 23 2012 11:24 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:15 Hot_Bid wrote:
If Lebron had just said hey Cleveland, "I tried, I really did, I couldn't do it, I'm sorry I couldn't bring a championship. It was a great experience representing you all. I'm going to move on now." Nobody would say shit. He'd literally have NO haters. Instead he went the way he did with the Decision. When athletes do dickish, arrogant things, fans hate them. I see this as a perfectly reasonable reaction from many fans with no attachment to the Heat, why is that so stupid again? I think it's this stuff that's annoying. No one will ever say that. And the "fans" who demanded this sort of humility and debasement are trying to construct a silly narrative. The defeated son walks off into the sunset having failed his people. But they still love him for his grace and measure. The Decision was tone-deaf and a PR nightmare and Jim Gray is a cock. But hating Lebron James for an hour of television? Settle down, people were going to hate his decision regardless.
"No one will ever say that" is ridiculous, because athletes have said it when they leave teams (there are plenty of examples). Kevin Garnett isn't hated in Minnesota. If and when Steve Nash leaves Phoenix, I guarantee you he will say something similar.
If you think that people hate Lebron for "an hour of television" that's grossly oversimplifying the situation. People hate on Lebron for many reasons that are more than just the physical content of the press conference. The fact that Lebron and his handlers were completely shocked by the hate showed a lot about how out of touch with reality they were.
Maybe some people in Cleveland would have hated his decision no matter what he did. But a lot would've been ambivalent, like they were to Z. Certainly everyone outside Cleveland wouldn't have hated Lebron as much.
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You do realize the sports situations in Cleveland and Minny/Phoenix are different right? Garnett and Nash weren't even remotely in the same situation as Lebron was in. People were gearing up with hate for him BEFORE he even announced he was leaving.
you know what forget it, now you're starting to sound like Bill Simmons. Believe what you want.
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Braavos36383 Posts
On May 23 2012 11:29 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 11:15 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 23 2012 11:05 Ace wrote:
If Shaq did it and didn't get any flak for it that should be reason enough to tell you people were only upset with it because it was LeBron James. It's as simple as that. Doesn't matter if it was televised - It is a Miami Heat event, in Miami, for Miami Heat fans. When Carmelo Anthony came to New York the entire city was screaming championship, at NY media days Stat was talking about winning a chip and guess what? No one gave a shit. Why? Because everyone wants to hear their best players talk about winning. He got flak for it because he was Lebron James yes? Is that something that is supposed to be unfair? Shaq is a multiple championship center who promised a ring. He's been there before, he knows what it takes. He promised just one, not seven, and he didn't do what Lebron did with the Decision. Are you saying the manner Lebron conducts himself and how he says things and his previous actions shouldn't impact how fans view them? Obviously fans were upset with it because it was Lebron, it's what he does and says and his personality. So when LeBron promised Cleveland a championship where was the backlash? There wasn't one!LeBron was one of the most liked athletes in the world before The Decision. Don't act like the guy just all of a sudden turned into an asshole in one night. Shaq winning a chip gives him an excuse to say things like that? Wow, sign me up then. Because Garnett when he went to Boston DID say the Celtics were going to win a chip (like he said every year) and no one said a word. At the time, Garnett had the same amount of rings as LeBron.
He didn't turn into an asshole overnight, he did over the course of 7 years surrounded by his own entourage and yes-men constantly kissing his ass. This part of his personality really just didn't manifest itself in public until the free agency sweepstakes for him happened, everyone liked his Nike-built brand image before that. Is this really so unreasonable to believe?
When did Lebron say it would be easy? Where?
He says it in the Heat celebration, it's funny too because both Wade and Bosh when Lebron is saying it have these looks on their faces like "whoa there slow down dude" lol.
Show nested quote +
So what you're saying is, he is pretty likable because of his popularity, then doing something fans saw was dickish and horrible would turn them against him? Yes, that much is obvious.
"The Decision" was almost universally criticized and turned one of the most liked and marketable athletes into one of the most hated. And it wasn't because he left Cleveland, because I even agreed with him there, most people did. I even kind of applauded the NBA free agents for doing it, it symbolically seized power back from the billionaire owners. It was kind of cool.
What people hated was the way he did it, the arrogance, the media event, the dragging it on, leaving Cleveland in the dark. A classy way to leave is the way Z did it, look how much people still love him, even in Cleveland, and he plays for the same team, the Heat. Big Z said goodbye, I really want to win a championship, took out a full page ad thanking the city, and left. He's universally loved.
If Lebron had just said hey Cleveland, "I tried, I really did, I couldn't do it, I'm sorry I couldn't bring a championship. It was a great experience representing you all. I'm going to move on now." Nobody would say shit. He'd literally have NO haters. Instead he went the way he did with the Decision. When athletes do dickish, arrogant things, fans hate them. I see this as a perfectly reasonable reaction from many fans with no attachment to the Heat, why is that so stupid again?
That's the part I don't believe. Look, I don't agree with the way he did it either. But there is no way people have so much vitriol for the guy WHO DONT EVEN LIVE IN CLEVELAND over The Decision. More people were upset with the fact that NBA player made their own power play. They were more upset that Lebron and Wade spurned their cities. Let's be for real here: LeBron could have done the same thing, picked NY and the NY media would have crushed everyone even attempting to hate on LeBron. I personally don't care that LeBron didn't leave in a "classy way". If the Cavs didn't realize there was good chance LeBron would leave months before that point then they would be the dumbest people in sports. Clearly there was some behind the scenes issues with Lebron and Cavs management so him not giving them a heads up doesn't surprise me. It wouldn't have changed a thing. LeBron has always been about the fans and he's repeatedly been gracious to Cleveland fans post The Decision. If Lebron said the "I tried..." stuff he would have been called a quitter, raked of coals, got the Magic/MJ would have never said that! stuff, gotten called a punk and we'd be right where we are now. The guy was in a lose/lose situation. People are hiding behind "The Decision" as their veil for hatred.
I guess when you say you don't care he didn't leave in a classy way, that just ends the discussion there. People hate him because of what he did and how he did it, not the Decision itself. You clearly disagree. It's understandable to dislike someone because he acts like an asshole. But yes, I do agree with you he got some extra hate from dumb NY and Chicago press because they just wanted him in their uniform.
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On May 23 2012 11:33 Ace wrote:
You do realize the sports situations in Cleveland and Minny/Phoenix are different right? Garnett and Nash aren't even remotely in the same situation as Lebron was in. People were gearing up with hate for him BEFORE he even announced he was leaving.
For failing to deliver when he promised he could. He said on ESPN TV that "I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, And I won't stop until I get it."
And to answer your previous question, he says "We'll challenge each other in practice, so once the games start, it's going to be easy...I mean Pat can come back and play like in his Kentucky days."
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EPT
