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The Korean dominance in recent events. What to do? - Page 15

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sjperera
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada349 Posts
April 10 2012 00:54 GMT
#281
this is not a problem... sports advance thanks to dominant champions and players... the fact that we can always talk about mythical Korean god-like players give the sport appeal... we want quality... we want to see the best... not some affirmitive action program.
Stormbringer!!!
murkk
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada154 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 00:55:51
April 10 2012 00:55 GMT
#282
Starcraft 2 pretty much caters to the hardcore enthusiast. I don't really see it gaining any new casual players in the near future as the game is rather unfriendly and somewhat boring to new casual players (wow, another smurf account as my opponent, who woulda thunk it). Ladder matches have dropped in numbers substantially at the lower levels.

It is what it is. It's a game that has a lot of hardcore players who want to see the best players playing. The NA and EUR scene is pretty much dead but there are a handful of skilled players who are fun to watch. There is just zero money to train players outside maybe 3 foreign teams, and the multiplayer portion of SC2 isn't that addictive to the masses (wow, a ladder that's 100% meaningless).
Grend
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1600 Posts
April 10 2012 00:57 GMT
#283
How about foreigners improving?
♞ Against the Wind - Bob Seger ♞
1sz2sz3sz
Profile Joined January 2012
Andorra173 Posts
April 10 2012 01:00 GMT
#284
On April 10 2012 09:57 Grend wrote:
How about foreigners improving?

Thats asking a bit much dont you think?
ladyumbra
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada1699 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 01:14:11
April 10 2012 01:00 GMT
#285
Blizzcon had 14 foreigners who all had to win regional qualifiers to get there. MVP and Nestea were still top 2. WCG had 53 foreigners and 3 koreans. MVP won while supernova and MKP finished top 8. Foreigners always outnumber koreans at IEM and local heros get a chance to show off, only once did a non korean win an IEM last year. There are already instances where korean competitor number is limited, these events feel no more competitive or international to me than MLG or ipl where korean dominance is rampant.

Not to mention it would be impossible to limit player invites for one nation and do it fairly. People would always only invite the big names who draw crowds leaving lesser known/popular but equally skilled players to lament the fact that they never get a chance to be seen.

The only thing I would suggest the western scene change is having more national level competitions to breed stronger competition within regions. People can see more western players that way and it would help ensure that top players in each area are regularly challenged and rewarded. Hopefully that would lead to a healthier level of foreign competitiveness at international events.

* I'm ignoring training and infrastructure problems for the moment since that's honestly a whole seperate issue.
murkk
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada154 Posts
April 10 2012 01:02 GMT
#286
On April 10 2012 09:57 Grend wrote:
How about foreigners improving?


Not happening any time soon. You've seen the best of the foreign players already, and there are zero players that will emerge in the next little while. The names you see right now are really just older names from the initial batch of SC1 and WC3 converts.
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
April 10 2012 01:03 GMT
#287
If there was a real teamhouse with top foreign players with dedicated coach + maid we could catch up. But I don't see that happening.
Diader
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States232 Posts
April 10 2012 01:03 GMT
#288
I think foreign teams need to put more effort into finding and grooming foreigners, rather than just recruiting Koreans.

Look at Scarlett, she was just a ladder player. Imagine how good she'll be once she gets picked up by a team and has even better practice for several months. Then imagine all the other teamless players in NA and EU GM also getting that kind of opportunity.
EchoZ
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Japan5041 Posts
April 10 2012 01:07 GMT
#289
Work harder.
Dear Sixsmith...
murkk
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada154 Posts
April 10 2012 01:11 GMT
#290
On April 10 2012 10:07 EchoZ wrote:
Work harder.


People in NA and EUR are kinda wierd. We tend to like getting paid when we work. Generally more than 25 cents an hour.
acrimoneyius
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States983 Posts
April 10 2012 01:13 GMT
#291
Who cares about nationality? I don't. I just want to see good starcraft, and koreans give us that.
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 01:18:14
April 10 2012 01:16 GMT
#292
In my opinion, sports have served as a proxy for competition between human groups from the dawn of time. The Greek Olympic games between the city-states of Athens, Sparta, etc., one of the prototypes of modern international sports, were a proxy for the rivalry between these states - and a means of conducting diplomacy. Participants were drawn from each of the city-states not because they were of equal skill to those found in other states, but because they stood symbolically for their home states, and their victories and defeats reflected upon those states, their publics, and their political image.

At its basic level, the competition between how far two men are able to throw a ball is not very tantalizing, and easily becomes dull. But cast in the mold of a rivalry between two public bodies, they attract legions of attentive fans. For through the narrative of international competition, the sportsman is reformed into the role of the hero - the champion of his people and the bearer of their hope and esteem. His success in a simple act is then transformed into a victory of the people, and through it, an event of utmost importance.

Thus it was with the Greeks, and thus it is today with international sports and eSports. Competition in Starcraft, no different from other sports, is fundamentally a social construct. Without the social context, being good at Starcraft is immaterial and inconsequential - after all, it's just a computer game. But when cast in the mold of the foreigner vs. Korean rivalry, of an international competition between players from all over the world, it takes on a new meaning. That meaning is what grants a simple sport the ability to swing the gaze of the world.

The purpose of ensuring equal participation between the SC playing regions is not to give foreigners an unfair advantage in eSports. Korean players are not to be restricted because they are too good, but because having too many of them in a single competition compromises the function of international sports as a proxy for international competition. Having twenty Koreans in a global competition facing off against a single foreigner breaks the role of the sport, and that is what has to be prevented for SC to take on the importance that other sports have.

In short, it's not about restricting Koreans from SC 2 competitions - it's about ensuring that other people have the opportunity to be in the spotlight. But this is contingent on the way tournaments are conducted, as well - the reason IPL 4 was a tournament of Koreans was because the foreigners fighting their way through the OB were basically invisible. I am willing to entertain a solution that continues to give Koreans a lot of spots in tournaments, provided it gives foreigners the ability to stand in the spotlight to perform their roles as proxies.
Tenken
Profile Joined March 2011
United States17 Posts
April 10 2012 01:17 GMT
#293
What to do?

Quit making posts like these after every single event
Clank
Profile Joined April 2011
United States548 Posts
April 10 2012 01:21 GMT
#294
On April 10 2012 10:07 EchoZ wrote:
Work harder.


i dont really think its all due to lack of work ethic on the foreigners part, as many players play 10+ hours a day and put a lot of effort into the game (granted koreans do work harder in general). I think the main reason is a lack of focus and drive to that practice. I don't know for sure, but id suspect its got something to do with the fact that korean teams have coaches to help them out. Most tennis players and golfers have their own coaches to help them out and you wouldn't expect the majority of players without coaches to really compete with those that do.
Ancient-Hunter
Profile Joined June 2011
Korea (South)142 Posts
April 10 2012 01:23 GMT
#295
Banning or lowering Korean participation in foreign tournaments will be horrible for starcraft as an esport as it will lower the bar and skill level among non-Koreans.

And while I do believe in a healthy international turnout I also believe that the overall skill level of the game cannot be sacrificed. If the majority of the talent exist in Korea then the majority of participants in premier events should be Korean.
Let's fly!
Moosy
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada396 Posts
April 10 2012 01:23 GMT
#296
build a time machine. travel back. have you're dad elope with a korean woman. this way you at least have a chance with half of the appropriate genes at your disposal.
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
April 10 2012 01:23 GMT
#297
On April 10 2012 09:44 tranmillitary wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 09:37 m0ck wrote:
On April 10 2012 09:28 tranmillitary wrote:
My final take on this issue. Watching nestea talking to MC while being down 2-0 to squirtle... and coming up with 2 great strategies to tie up the series... this is great. 3 hatch slow lings? These are the things that Idra/stephano or any foreigner will never do. Watching stephano and idra play is so bland. I'm not bashing them but this is how every game idra/stephano goes:

3 hatch macro up and try to drone up to 80, if someone pushes around 9 mins, make roaches and try to hold off, lings/banes/roaches til BL's, than BL's, infestors, queens. Every single game. People seriously want to see that every game?

We need the best stars of the world to showcase their skills. Just like MMA vs stephano... 5 prong attacks with 4 manner sensor towers in the same area. manner mules to block off stephano's troops that are running home. Why watch jump shooting players when you can see dunking??

Well, if what you want is all-ins, nestea is your man!


Yeah because all Nestea can do is All-ins. Shows how much you know about SC2 and e-sports in general. Too many kids on this forum.

I'm sure it's not all he can do, but it was what he did.
BlueBoxSC
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States582 Posts
April 10 2012 01:24 GMT
#298
As most people in the thread have already said, it doesn't freaking matter. It's an international competition and the problem isn't "Koreans", it's people with a damn ethic for the game and practice.
BwCBlueBox.837
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
April 10 2012 01:27 GMT
#299
what can "foreigners" do?

suck it up.

play better.

or go home.

there really isn't any more to it and its the same for all sports.
Forever ZeNEX.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 02:24:26
April 10 2012 01:28 GMT
#300
changed my mind, carry on
Moderator
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