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If you had asked me this over the recent winter break I might have told you it had already happened. Players like Stephano were proving that it was possible to stand up to top Korean pros and actually come out ahead. As the 2012 season began, top Koreans continued to fall. DeMuslim and Naniwa defeated NesTea and even Korean pros seemed to believe the foreign scene was catching up. But I am sitting here in anticipation of IPL 4 and as I scroll through the list of players it has suddenly dawned on me that I may have been kidding myself. It appears that only in the best of scenarios will we see more than a few foreigners in the top 25. It is even conceivable that Koreans could take 35 out of the top 40 positions and that is by no means a convincing argument for a level playing field between Koreans and foreigners. I have heard so much talk about who will place where and people are far to generous to their favorite foreign players. As was pointed out in a particularly entertaining TeamLiquid post "Wanna bet on it?" by Tree.hugger and Waxangel, anyone who is a true betting man would not go anywhere near those foreigner odds. Koreans, in my opinion, still have the advantage, but there are many who would say otherwise.
NesTea recently stated in an episode of State of the Game that he believed there was little difference between the skill levels of foreign and Korean players. This may have simply been a selfish rationalization due to the fact that he has been losing to foreigners. Either way, IPL 4 will be the biggest test of foreign skill and mental fortitude yet to date. Most other events held outside of Korea where foreigners meet Koreans head to head showcase only top Korean pros. In attendance at IPL 4 will be the top players in the world as well as a large number of up-and-comers. A larger player pool will allow for a much better test of foreign skill and, frankly, I am not very hopeful.
Foreign teams and players have skyrocketed onto the StarCraft 2 scene proving beyond a doubt that they are able to compete at the highest level. The issue has been consistency. No player, Korean or foreign, seems able to stay dominant for more than a few months at a time, but at the end of the day the worst players on any Korean team always have a shot at beating the top players on any foreign team. I hope to be proven wrong as IPL 4 gets rolling. I will gladly eat my words if at the end of the day 10 of the top 20 are foreigners.
My biggest issue with jumping the gun on declaring Koreans and foreigners equal is that I’m not ready to give up the underdog title. On the one hand I look forward to a day when we can let this semi-racist discussion die once and for all and just unite under the glorious banner that is e-Sports. But a big part of me loves to watch my friends jump out of their seats and dry hump the air in celebration of a foreigner win (not entirely sure what that says about me, guess I'm still working it out). Foreign players still have a lot to prove. Teams are improving and the industry is booming so this is no time to give up on the biggest rivalry in e-Sports. The competition is cutthroat yet respectful; antagonistic but honorable. We have a good thing going here and the end, much to many people’s chagrin, is nowhere in sight.
Foreigners Fighting!
…and when they’re all knocked out, go MKP.
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Not really, tbh I feel it's gotten even higher almost. I don't see very many foreigners making upsets (but I do expect a few) at IPL4.
I don't see foreigners catching up to korean skill in who knows how long, just might never happen like bw but I do think we will always have foreigners who will be able to compete with the koreans just not to many imo. But boy would I love to be proven wrong 
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Italy12246 Posts
Some of the very top foreigner players have the ability to take a series of koreans, but until you see most foreigners consitently placing as high in GSL as koreans you can't say there isn't a skill gap between the two groups of players.
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Other than Huk, Stephano, Naniwa, Thorzain, Ret, Socke and sometimes Idra or Sase I can't think of anyone who compares to thew Koreans and sadly none of them have ever compared to whomever the top Korean is...so no not yet. Maybe someday...
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People are too quick to judge or condemn a player or players after 1 victory or 1 tournament.
No I don't think they've caught up, just look at how Korean heavy top positions are in recent tournaments, I'm pretty sure IPL4 will be the same story. There is maybe 1-3 foreigners who can compete with top Koreans, but thats it. That in no way means Foreigner skill has caught up.
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I still feel Koreans are way higher... Nestea's comment was probably generous, not selfish.
Even if foreigners do well at IPL4, the fact that foreigners usually do horrible in the GSL (can't even get into Code A or stay there for more than 1 season) doesn't help support that foreigners have caught up. Though, perhaps it is simply that there is a big difference in the location of the competition; koreans in foreign places will feel less comfortable and vice versa.
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You appear to have no grasp of reality, Caephus. Koreans are at least one order of magnitude better than foreigners in terms of training mentality, which means that they'll only continue to pull ahead as time goes on.
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No not at all. The only comparable foreigners I can think of are HuK and Stephano.
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The simple answer is no, but there are a select few that can produce great results despite that fact.
We have too few players that commit hardcore to be able to compare to Korean players that train so much harder and, most often, more effectively.
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Aside from Stephano and maybe ThorZaIN and Ret, the only foreigners who can consistently compete at the same level as Koreans (HuK and NaNiwa) train in Korea.
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Very good quality first post, welcome to TeamLiquid
I honestly believe many foreigners have the potential to be as good as Koreans.
Notice how I said potential? The reason for that is simply because Koreans practices
A LOT more than 99% of foreigner pros. Practice makes perfect as the old adage would say.
Stephano only practicing 3-4 hours a day and beating top tier Code S players shows this.
I'm by no means a Stephano fanboy but realistically, could you imagine the beast that would be awoken
if Stephano played as much as the Korean pro players?
TL&DR
Koreans practice a lot more than Foreigners.
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What gives you that crazy idea whatsoever lol. 90% of foreigner wins come on the back of PvP lmao.
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497 Posts
If you ask any top koreans, they would probably say, "nah, there is no skill difference between top foreigners and top koreans.", but in general, the gap is getting bigger. However, foreign players like Huk and Naniwa are still able to compete against top koreans and get good results and sometimes upsets happened like Socke did in MLG, so there won't be a point where top 10 MLG are all koreans.
And don't forget that ThorZain can all-kill any korean team if they ain't careful.
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The form of preparation for tournaments could be one of the contributing factors of higher foreigner success in foreign tournaments:
- GSL you have several days to prepare for your opponents (research + practice the matchup + strategise)
- Foreign tournaments (except NASL and some minor others) give you practically no time to practice against a specific opponent.
Perhaps Koreans are just better practicing against certain opponents?
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Anyone who pays attention to the scene a little bit should know that the skill gap is still there, if not growing. I guarantee that Nestea was being generous rather than selfish. Many korean pros say that foreigner skill is close to if not at the level of the koreans. If this were the case then you would see WAAAAY more foreign victories than we do. Korean gamers are just nice people and don't like to call people out like Idra and people of his ilk.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Really depends how you want to look at the sets of players. Can the top 1% of foreigners compete with the top 1% of koreans? On average probably not. Can the top 50% of foreigners (pros) compete with the top 50% of koreans? I'd argue yes, and it's shown regularly in show matches, clan leagues etc. Ret 3-0ed Ganzi the other night in a show match. Ganzi is not MMA, but he is high level. Huk regularly beats excellent koreans, stephano, thorzain etc etc.
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No
Edit-My post was bad. No I think the best koreans are alittle bit better than the best foreigners. But korea has so many better players than forgeiners if that makes sense? When few of the forgieners manage to beat a korean they are considered one of the best foreigners. Just my opinion
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EPT
