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It seems this same thread is created every month. The gap is probably getting worse between the top koreans and top foreigners. Also, there is an extreme lack of "top foreigners" now. NA can make as many leagues as they want, but all we see are Korean champions.
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No I don't think so. I think the skill difference has just gotten higher. Very few foreigners can even compete with top Koreans.
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First thread ive ever seen where smartass one word posts like "No..." arent getting warned. Its just that obvious, haha.
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On April 07 2012 05:55 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 03:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 06 2012 17:20 karpo wrote:On April 06 2012 17:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the GSL is a format that favours training infrastructure and structured team support. Koreans will dominate GSL, because they're currently the only ones with that kind of backing.
In any other tournament format, Foreigners can and will pull of frequent upsets. They won't consistently beat top Koreans four matchups in a row, but the skill gap is close enough that a good day can lead to good Foreign results.
Are Koreans still the top players? Without a doubt. Is that skill level insurmountable? The results speak for themselves - no. Practically "any other tournament format" means that koreans travel across the world and most of them rely on a translator for everything. Just because some foreigners, who are more used to traveling and can get by on english, do well in a few matches at MLG doesn't mean that the skillgap isn't large. The GSL is the only place where jetlag, a messy schedule, shitty living, and fatigue doesn't affect the play, generally. Most people fly out for weekend tournaments a few days beforehand, with all that entails, while foreigners often spend months in korea but still can't get anywhere in the GSL. (most stay in a teamhouse too, but that doesn't seem to help) Holy crap, the number of excuses here... How about Tournaments that take place in China? You know, a place that is closer to Korea than any Western or European country? How about when Foreigners and Koreans both travel to an MLG from the exact same country. Or I guess Koreans just have bigger problems with Jet Lag, right? How about European tournaments where the primary language doesn't favour Koreans or North Americans? How about the fact that you just brought up language barriers, and completely ignore that Foreigners living in Korea are surrounded by people they can't communicate with well for several months? GSL is the only format where you can spend weeks preparing for a single opponent. That favours whoever has the best infrastructure and training support. The attitude that any tournament result that isn't GSL is meaningless is stupid, because all you're saying is "You could never beat a Korean who has a week to train for you and have his coach and teammates spend a week analyzing you". you do realise that the reason koreans do better in gsl is because they actually have 15 practice partners of each race and a coach who analyzes their opponents?. what do you think we have ? .. we have to do everything ourselves and its not that easy to get practice partners 24/7 who you can trust to not leak replays beacuse of the "Korean pride" which means that most of them will stab you in the back to help a korean friend if they can. but sure.. lets keep saying thats the fair way to judge whos better ! quoted wrong person but never the less this is how it is.
and naniwa, who's fault is that really? that foreign coaches don't do what they optimally should to help their players? that foreign players dont work harder to network and practice together? im not denying at all that that certainly is part of the reason, but i dont think it's all, and it's certainly not a problem you cant point at the koreans.
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On April 07 2012 06:00 Naniwa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 05:59 decaf wrote:On April 07 2012 05:55 Naniwa wrote:On April 07 2012 03:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 06 2012 17:20 karpo wrote:On April 06 2012 17:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the GSL is a format that favours training infrastructure and structured team support. Koreans will dominate GSL, because they're currently the only ones with that kind of backing.
In any other tournament format, Foreigners can and will pull of frequent upsets. They won't consistently beat top Koreans four matchups in a row, but the skill gap is close enough that a good day can lead to good Foreign results.
Are Koreans still the top players? Without a doubt. Is that skill level insurmountable? The results speak for themselves - no. Practically "any other tournament format" means that koreans travel across the world and most of them rely on a translator for everything. Just because some foreigners, who are more used to traveling and can get by on english, do well in a few matches at MLG doesn't mean that the skillgap isn't large. The GSL is the only place where jetlag, a messy schedule, shitty living, and fatigue doesn't affect the play, generally. Most people fly out for weekend tournaments a few days beforehand, with all that entails, while foreigners often spend months in korea but still can't get anywhere in the GSL. (most stay in a teamhouse too, but that doesn't seem to help) Holy crap, the number of excuses here... How about Tournaments that take place in China? You know, a place that is closer to Korea than any Western or European country? How about when Foreigners and Koreans both travel to an MLG from the exact same country. Or I guess Koreans just have bigger problems with Jet Lag, right? How about European tournaments where the primary language doesn't favour Koreans or North Americans? How about the fact that you just brought up language barriers, and completely ignore that Foreigners living in Korea are surrounded by people they can't communicate with well for several months? GSL is the only format where you can spend weeks preparing for a single opponent. That favours whoever has the best infrastructure and training support. The attitude that any tournament result that isn't GSL is meaningless is stupid, because all you're saying is "You could never beat a Korean who has a week to train for you and have his coach and teammates spend a week analyzing you". you do realise that the reason koreans do better in gsl is because they actually have 15 practice partners of each race and a coach who analyzes their opponents?. what do you think we have ? .. we have to do everything ourselves and its not that easy to get practice partners 24/7 who you can trust to not leak replays beacuse of the "Korean pride" which means that most of them will stab you in the back to help a korean friend if they can. but sure.. lets keep saying thats the fair way to judge whos better ! quoted wrong person but never the less this is how it is. That and the fact they're practicing instead of reading forums. Not saying you aren't working your ass off but nevertheless this is how it is. last time i respond to idiots like you who dont know anything, They read playxp.com 24/7  and teamliquid
Just focus on your own game nani, you cant change the present situation, and you have been doing good on your grind.
Keep it up
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I don't think it's so much that foreign skill has "caught up" with the koreans, so much as the mechanics of the game allows lesser disciplined and "skilled" players to be put on an even level with koreans. Not to disrespect foreigners who are standing up against them koreans, good job on them. I just don't think it's anything more than the game itself. However, now that the game is exploding in the western gaming community a good deal, I feel that skill is catching up at a reasonable pace.
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On April 07 2012 09:50 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2012 05:55 Naniwa wrote:On April 07 2012 03:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 06 2012 17:20 karpo wrote:On April 06 2012 17:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the GSL is a format that favours training infrastructure and structured team support. Koreans will dominate GSL, because they're currently the only ones with that kind of backing.
In any other tournament format, Foreigners can and will pull of frequent upsets. They won't consistently beat top Koreans four matchups in a row, but the skill gap is close enough that a good day can lead to good Foreign results.
Are Koreans still the top players? Without a doubt. Is that skill level insurmountable? The results speak for themselves - no. Practically "any other tournament format" means that koreans travel across the world and most of them rely on a translator for everything. Just because some foreigners, who are more used to traveling and can get by on english, do well in a few matches at MLG doesn't mean that the skillgap isn't large. The GSL is the only place where jetlag, a messy schedule, shitty living, and fatigue doesn't affect the play, generally. Most people fly out for weekend tournaments a few days beforehand, with all that entails, while foreigners often spend months in korea but still can't get anywhere in the GSL. (most stay in a teamhouse too, but that doesn't seem to help) Holy crap, the number of excuses here... How about Tournaments that take place in China? You know, a place that is closer to Korea than any Western or European country? How about when Foreigners and Koreans both travel to an MLG from the exact same country. Or I guess Koreans just have bigger problems with Jet Lag, right? How about European tournaments where the primary language doesn't favour Koreans or North Americans? How about the fact that you just brought up language barriers, and completely ignore that Foreigners living in Korea are surrounded by people they can't communicate with well for several months? GSL is the only format where you can spend weeks preparing for a single opponent. That favours whoever has the best infrastructure and training support. The attitude that any tournament result that isn't GSL is meaningless is stupid, because all you're saying is "You could never beat a Korean who has a week to train for you and have his coach and teammates spend a week analyzing you". you do realise that the reason koreans do better in gsl is because they actually have 15 practice partners of each race and a coach who analyzes their opponents?. what do you think we have ? .. we have to do everything ourselves and its not that easy to get practice partners 24/7 who you can trust to not leak replays beacuse of the "Korean pride" which means that most of them will stab you in the back to help a korean friend if they can. but sure.. lets keep saying thats the fair way to judge whos better ! quoted wrong person but never the less this is how it is. and naniwa, who's fault is that really? that foreign coaches don't do what they optimally should to help their players? that foreign players dont work harder to network and practice together? im not denying at all that that certainly is part of the reason, but i dont think it's all, and it's certainly not a problem you cant point at the koreans.
the point is: the koreans would be stupid to forego their infrastructure advantage. and the quality of practice partners etc. is not as easily replicated for foreign teams. koreans have a ton of available awesome practice partners, for example up and comers who want access to a pro team. just living their as a foreigner is not enough if you don't fell / are not 100 % integrated and don't have access to the superb training infrastructure.
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EPT
