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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 12:24 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:21 densha wrote:On March 09 2012 12:12 synapse wrote:
Why is "nigger" considered out of line when "faggot" and "homo" aren't? He's not directing them at a person who he knows is black (presumably)--they're all just words that have come to have very general negative connotations.
I mean, I don't support orb for saying that kind of stuff (at least IdrA is somewhat creative in his rage), but isn't this kind of a double standard? It is a double standard to a point. I personally dislike the use of "gay", "homo", and "faggot" as insults and I cringe when they are used whether IRL or on the internet. Having said that, though, the N word has a very specific history in the US that forever ties it to slavery. Whether you think it's just another word or you're offended by it is most likely determined by whether you understand that historical reference. So while the sexual epithets are offensive and hurtful, they aren't tied directly to an era when an entire people were subjugated and abused by their fellow Americans. Are you kidding me?! Homosexuals are regularly abused and even murdered by their fellow Americans. Yes, "faggot" is tied to an era where homosexuals are subjugated and abused.
Of course you're correct. My point is that the N word is tied to a time where the abuse of an entire people was institutionalized and codified into law. A slave was not a full human, legally.
When there is violence against homosexuals today it is the personal act of one or more people. It is not something that is sanctioned by the state. Homosexuals may vote and have all other human rights (aside from Marriage in some states, which thankfully is slowly changing).
There is a difference between state sanctioned atrocity and the acts of individuals.
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On March 09 2012 12:30 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:28 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 12:24 Klondikebar wrote:On March 09 2012 12:21 densha wrote:On March 09 2012 12:12 synapse wrote:
Why is "nigger" considered out of line when "faggot" and "homo" aren't? He's not directing them at a person who he knows is black (presumably)--they're all just words that have come to have very general negative connotations.
I mean, I don't support orb for saying that kind of stuff (at least IdrA is somewhat creative in his rage), but isn't this kind of a double standard? It is a double standard to a point. I personally dislike the use of "gay", "homo", and "faggot" as insults and I cringe when they are used whether IRL or on the internet. Having said that, though, the N word has a very specific history in the US that forever ties it to slavery. Whether you think it's just another word or you're offended by it is most likely determined by whether you understand that historical reference. So while the sexual epithets are offensive and hurtful, they aren't tied directly to an era when an entire people were subjugated and abused by their fellow Americans. Are you kidding me?! Homosexuals are regularly abused and even murdered by their fellow Americans. Yes, "faggot" is tied to an era where homosexuals are subjugated and abused. Are you implying that there has never been a homosexual american murderer that has murdered straight men? This is 2012, not the 1400's why are you even trying to use that as a point? its not acceptable for either group. It has never been socially acceptable for a homosexual to murder a straight man.
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On March 09 2012 12:33 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:27 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 12:22 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 12:19 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 12:17 Esk23 wrote:On March 09 2012 11:52 Wuster wrote:On March 09 2012 11:46 Esk23 wrote:
Why is "nigger" more emotionally charged for black people than cracker ass white boy is for white people? Blacks today didn't go through slavery. I'd understand if it were this way back during slavery when there were actually blacks who were slaves but this doesn't exist in today's age. I really think people need to just calm down and relax and don't take life so seriously. Chill. You should know that the n-word came into prominence in the year's after slavery. So it's tied to institutionalized racism (Blacks didn't even get equal rights 'on paper' until the 60s) more so than slavery. Blacks also never stopped being the minority in the US; nor discriminated against, as the Harvard resume study proved (and that was released 2011 I believe). So saying Black people need to be like White people and shrug off derogatory slurs is pretty ignorant. I don't think so, that was the 1960s this is the year 2012. No trust Wuster, he's right. I heard White people are still pretty powerful in the US. Yea, isnt one of them our president? Which one? There were so many gay, black and female presidents I'm not sure which one you're referring to. Obama ofc
Oh yeah, that guy. You're right, being president of the US means you're a demigod that has universal control over all of society and it's behaviour and constructs. Racism schmacism.
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Looks like orb is in pretty deep shit now. EG cannot do anything else than removing him at this point.
I kinda like him as a caster though, that's a shame, but you gotta behave on the Internet when it's very closely related to your professional life.
He shot himself in the foot by lying so strongly since the beginning. Had he confirmed immediately, that would have been recoverable I think.
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On March 09 2012 12:26 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:22 Amlitzer wrote:On March 09 2012 12:00 densha wrote:
I'm surprised (well, I guess not really) that there are people posting here who just don't understand how offensive it is to watch a privileged white kid throw around a word that was forged in human bondage and suffering so freely. He chose to use the most offensive, taboo word in the English language to express simple ladder rage. He literally could have picked anything else to say, even "cunt" obviously doesn't have the history of the N word. It's the history that matters, folks, and the fact that Orb apparently has no regard for such things.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing but that doesn't mean you're free of the consequences of your speech. If Orb ever casts again, the chat will be constant N word references. He'll always be known (as South Park puts it) as "that nigger guy". Every time I see his face, it will be difficult to take him seriously or not think of the controversy. Is anyone really going to want him casting their games now? Can he serve as the face of an organization now? I do not think so, and that's simply the reality of a "public" figure using the N word and getting caught. Get over yourself, nigger is not even close to the most "taboo" words in existence. The fact that negroes routinely call each other by the term is proof alone of that fact. It's not like he said cunt or kike, now those terms would get you lynched to high heaven. First of all, are you calling black people "negroes" to troll? Second of all, black people call each other "niggas" in a friendly way, NOT "niggers". They mean different things.
A lot of people make this argument, but it's difficult to say the words are actually different because in the AAE dialect, the "r" at the end of words is commonly dropped. "Brother" goes to "brotha" but they're very clearly the same word, and there are a ton of other words you can come up with that undergo the same r-dropping. It's very clear that "nigga" came from "nigger," but once you say that they call each other "nigga" in a friendly way, you start to introduce intent into the equation, which muddies things up. Does that mean it's okay to talk to other black people you don't know well and use "nigga" in a friendly way? No, it doesn't. It's a community thing. The people you talk to understand your intent and acknowledge it, and you understand that they understand your intent and acknowledge it.
Which is why people don't get near as charged up at slurs such as "faggot" because the gaming community has pretty much internalized it as an "okay thing to say" (which, IMO, it isn't, and neither is "nigger"). But it's in the common ground; both parties understand the meaning, because it's obviously meant simply to "insult" and not to refer to someone's sexual orientation, and they accept and acknowledge that intention, and any attempt to bring it up otherwise will get you laughed at by most of the community.
Note: Not condoning anything at all, but communication is a two-way street.
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On March 09 2012 12:28 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:24 Klondikebar wrote:On March 09 2012 12:21 densha wrote:On March 09 2012 12:12 synapse wrote:
Why is "nigger" considered out of line when "faggot" and "homo" aren't? He's not directing them at a person who he knows is black (presumably)--they're all just words that have come to have very general negative connotations.
I mean, I don't support orb for saying that kind of stuff (at least IdrA is somewhat creative in his rage), but isn't this kind of a double standard? It is a double standard to a point. I personally dislike the use of "gay", "homo", and "faggot" as insults and I cringe when they are used whether IRL or on the internet. Having said that, though, the N word has a very specific history in the US that forever ties it to slavery. Whether you think it's just another word or you're offended by it is most likely determined by whether you understand that historical reference. So while the sexual epithets are offensive and hurtful, they aren't tied directly to an era when an entire people were subjugated and abused by their fellow Americans. Are you kidding me?! Homosexuals are regularly abused and even murdered by their fellow Americans. Yes, "faggot" is tied to an era where homosexuals are subjugated and abused. Are you implying that there has never been a homosexual american murderer that has murdered straight men?
No, he's not implying that, implication usually involves having anything at all to fucking do with one another. I genuinely feel stupider after reading that.
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Redacted. A bit of rage there but I think EG's CEO sorta cooled that off a bit.
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Actually Obama's election only highlighted how much racism is still a problem. Did you guys not remember those voter lines in the US where they had money dolls with Obama buttons? Or all the "Obama must be a secret evil Muslim" because he's black and has a foreign name?
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just play the fucking game! god...
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On March 09 2012 06:15 BabyGiraldo wrote:
Wow SC2 players are so sensitive... Get on any other console/game and that's completely normal. (If you don't believe me play COD for 5 minutes). It's nice that this is a gm community but jesus this doesn't need it's own thread...
We are not the COD community. We hold public figures, especially those who claim to be public figures, to higher standards. I remember a period of time where orb wanted to have one of his "shows" featured on teamliquid. If you want that kind of recognition, you don't earn it by spewing out racial slurs and acting like a 9 year old.
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On March 09 2012 12:21 densha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:12 synapse wrote:
Why is "nigger" considered out of line when "faggot" and "homo" aren't? He's not directing them at a person who he knows is black (presumably)--they're all just words that have come to have very general negative connotations.
I mean, I don't support orb for saying that kind of stuff (at least IdrA is somewhat creative in his rage), but isn't this kind of a double standard? It is a double standard to a point. I personally dislike the use of "gay", "homo", and "faggot" as insults and I cringe when they are used whether IRL or on the internet. Having said that, though, the N word has a very specific history in the US that forever ties it to slavery. Whether you think it's just another word or you're offended by it is most likely determined by whether you understand that historical reference. So while the sexual epithets are offensive and hurtful, they aren't tied directly to an era when an entire people were subjugated and abused by their fellow Americans.
You realize that "Faggot" was a bundle of sticks that was used to burn homosexuals, right? That sounds like abuse and subjugation to me.
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On March 09 2012 12:36 ZenithM wrote:
Looks like orb is in pretty deep shit now. EG cannot do anything else than removing him at this point.
I kinda like him as a caster though, that's a shame, but you gotta behave on the Internet when it's very closely related to your professional life.
He shot himself in the foot by lying so strongly since the beginning. Had he confirmed immediately, that would have been recoverable I think.
Yep. He just needed to issue a public apology, do some good deed to make up for it, and never do it again.
Instead he lied and dodged until he was caught. He doesn't get a second chance after that.
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Orb is fine and a great guy and a great caster. Don't attempt to ruin his reputation because he uses the word 'nigger'. He probably isn't racist but is instead using the crass internet words like 'nig, gay, rape' etc that are popular even tho the one who utters them may not actually hate those groups or approve of rape.
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On March 09 2012 12:29 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:23 Utinni wrote:On March 09 2012 12:22 Amlitzer wrote:On March 09 2012 12:00 densha wrote:
I'm surprised (well, I guess not really) that there are people posting here who just don't understand how offensive it is to watch a privileged white kid throw around a word that was forged in human bondage and suffering so freely. He chose to use the most offensive, taboo word in the English language to express simple ladder rage. He literally could have picked anything else to say, even "cunt" obviously doesn't have the history of the N word. It's the history that matters, folks, and the fact that Orb apparently has no regard for such things.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing but that doesn't mean you're free of the consequences of your speech. If Orb ever casts again, the chat will be constant N word references. He'll always be known (as South Park puts it) as "that nigger guy". Every time I see his face, it will be difficult to take him seriously or not think of the controversy. Is anyone really going to want him casting their games now? Can he serve as the face of an organization now? I do not think so, and that's simply the reality of a "public" figure using the N word and getting caught. Get over yourself, nigger is not even close to the most "taboo" words in existence. The fact that negroes routinely call each other by the term is proof alone of that fact. It's not like he said cunt or kike, now those terms would get you lynched to high heaven. ... you are seriously misguided and ill-informed... its actually the same thing.... wow. How is he misguided exactly? Why can Jay-Z and Kanye release songs titled "Niggas in Paris" and have the word mean nothing more than a song title? Why, when they call eachother niggas does it just mean "other black person" or "friend" or whatever? I am obviously missing something here because if the word is so "emotionally charged" and forever linked to slavery then why the fuck do black people routinely use it? Or does switching the "er" to an "a" make all the difference here.....
... They can release whatever they want, it's a free world... what do you hear when they play it on the radio? Its either "In Paris" or just "Paris" because it isn't socially acceptable use those terms in public. It is a racial slurr along with with K*ke. If you have any respect for race you just don't use these terms. It's quite simple. These terms are frowned upon.
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On March 09 2012 12:35 densha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:24 Klondikebar wrote:On March 09 2012 12:21 densha wrote:On March 09 2012 12:12 synapse wrote:
Why is "nigger" considered out of line when "faggot" and "homo" aren't? He's not directing them at a person who he knows is black (presumably)--they're all just words that have come to have very general negative connotations.
I mean, I don't support orb for saying that kind of stuff (at least IdrA is somewhat creative in his rage), but isn't this kind of a double standard? It is a double standard to a point. I personally dislike the use of "gay", "homo", and "faggot" as insults and I cringe when they are used whether IRL or on the internet. Having said that, though, the N word has a very specific history in the US that forever ties it to slavery. Whether you think it's just another word or you're offended by it is most likely determined by whether you understand that historical reference. So while the sexual epithets are offensive and hurtful, they aren't tied directly to an era when an entire people were subjugated and abused by their fellow Americans. Are you kidding me?! Homosexuals are regularly abused and even murdered by their fellow Americans. Yes, "faggot" is tied to an era where homosexuals are subjugated and abused. Of course you're correct. My point is that the N word is tied to a time where the abuse of an entire people was institutionalized and codified into law. A slave was not a full human, legally. When there is violence against homosexuals today it is the personal act of one or more people. It is not something that is sanctioned by the state. Homosexuals may vote and have all other human rights (aside from Marriage in some states, which thankfully is slowly changing). There is a difference between state sanctioned atrocity and the acts of individuals.
So all the police brutality and blind eyes towards crimes against gays just don't exist now?
You know they originally called AID's "GRID" (Gay related immuno deficiency) because people were convinced that gay's caused it.
You can argue that the N-word is "worse" all you want but it's a pointless and stupid argument because both nigger and faggot are words that should not be said...ever. And certainly not by public figures.
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On March 09 2012 12:39 Kfcnoob wrote:
Orb is fine and a great guy and a great caster. Don't attempt to ruin his reputation because he uses the word 'nigger'. He probably isn't racist but is instead using the crass internet words like 'nig, gay, rape' etc that are popular even tho the one who utters them may not actually hate those groups or approve of rape.
He should grow up and stop using those words. More importantly, he should grow up and stop lying to his boss and community when he's caught doing something wrong.
Nobody is attempting to ruin his reputation, he ruined it himself.
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On March 09 2012 12:39 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:36 ZenithM wrote:
Looks like orb is in pretty deep shit now. EG cannot do anything else than removing him at this point.
I kinda like him as a caster though, that's a shame, but you gotta behave on the Internet when it's very closely related to your professional life.
He shot himself in the foot by lying so strongly since the beginning. Had he confirmed immediately, that would have been recoverable I think. Yep. He just needed to issue a public apology, do some good deed to make up for it, and never do it again. Instead he lied and dodged until he was caught. He doesn't get a second chance after that.
Some dudes learn the hard way ...
I think lying to your boss about a potential PR nightmare is just really poor judgement.
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Professional players must be held to a higher standard if you ever want to see respect and growth. If not, why call them Pros? He was in the presence and directing his messages to another person, that's public enough for me. Not in his private personal time. Deserves what he is getting 100%.
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On March 09 2012 12:39 Kfcnoob wrote:
Orb is fine and a great guy and a great caster. Don't attempt to ruin his reputation because he uses the word 'nigger'. He probably isn't racist but is instead using the crass internet words like 'nig, gay, rape' etc that are popular even tho the one who utters them may not actually hate those groups or approve of rape.
He has done this to his own reputation. Something being popular on the internet does not make it okay. And we don't know if he is a good guy anymore than we know if he was being racist or just being stupid.
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On March 09 2012 12:40 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:39 Kfcnoob wrote:
Orb is fine and a great guy and a great caster. Don't attempt to ruin his reputation because he uses the word 'nigger'. He probably isn't racist but is instead using the crass internet words like 'nig, gay, rape' etc that are popular even tho the one who utters them may not actually hate those groups or approve of rape. He should grow up and stop using those words. More importantly, he should grow up and stop lying to his boss and community when he's caught doing something wrong. Nobody is attempting to ruin his reputation, he ruined it himself.
I've asked this question before and I'll ask it again. Did he actually admit to the most recent accusation (the one where he said it was his friend) or was incontrovertible evidence produced that indicted him?
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EPT
