EPTIs it time for a Happy Zelot? - Page 6
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
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TheLaw
United States172 Posts
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote: Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go. That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard. The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready. For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving. Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:47 jamesr12 wrote: I love how idra clearly still spends tons of time on TL as he ends up first page on this thread, but rarely posts these days and probably hasn't said anything intelligent in his last 100 posts. Why post intelligent and helpful things when you can complain about your race? Works for most TL users.  | ||
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CluEleSs_UK
United Kingdom583 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:34 B00ts wrote: 1) MMM in majority of games is innovative? I'm not trying to be sarcastic... But wouldn't Terran be the least innovative in terms of strats we see? 2) Are the high level because they are good? Or are they high level because they play terran?... I'm not claiming either to be true, but I am just pointing out the flawed thinking in your second point. I'll admit a lot of players play MMM, but they manage to do so many different things with it. Take MVPDream v Boxer today, boxer did this mass drop onto mech with vikings style which has never been seen before! Top Terrans seem to take a problem, and think of a way to fix it: tanks own bio -> make bio fly; vikings own flying things -> make vikings too. & the argument that players were top because they played Terran was certainly viable in beta, but we've seen a lot of those players fall out of favour (painuser, strelok, etc). Perhaps Terran benefits the most from good mechanics and multitasking, and thus is the most stable race, explaining why so many of the top koreans are terrans? Who knows, I suppose I'm just speculating. | ||
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4of8
Germany256 Posts
Today was a happy day for all the zealots over the world, but the the general mood will stay pretty sad untill we got another GSL Champion and/or the tourney stats in general will be more balanced. And to stay pessimistic, there is quite a good chance that all Toss will still go down to code a this season thx to the new system  | ||
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ooozer
Germany231 Posts
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Ziktomini
United Kingdom377 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote: time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses. Lol, so true though. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote: time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses. Word. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:17 Ziktomini wrote: Protoss players will never be happy until they have a 100% win rate. Sounds like zerg players. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:41 AlexP wrote: and you only quote tournaments, where terrans don't where on the top. so i continue for you IPL 4 Pacfic T 1st Z 2nd Z 3rd Blizzcon 2011 T 1st Z 2nd Z 3rd GSL October T 1st T 2nd T 3rd/4th GSL August T 1st T 2nd T/Z 3rd/4th TLPD rates aren't close at 50% yet. terran is always ahead the both other races. Stop acting as if terran is in bad shape. sad terran my ass. and ontopic: i think it's too early to say protoss have a comeback. it was just the first round. and we'll have to wait if one protoss can make it to the gsl finals or not, but i think the capabilities of protoss are still too limited to reach that. Why should Terran rates be 50%? Why should any race have 50%? What happens if the T players are a lot better than anyone else? You have to watch the games and analyze them from an overall player skill perspective before making such broad statements. Is Flash OP or is it Terran? Is NesTea OP or is it Zerg? I would argue that Terran in SC2 have far better players than either race. You have MMA, Happy, MVP, TaeJa, GanZi, sC, PuMa, ForGG, etc. (Bomber has been playing badly of late) which if you watch their games simply have better multi-tasking, micro, macro, game-sense, etc. than most other players from other races. I never understood the argument ceteris paribus that each race should have 50% win rates (or close thereof). It makes no logical sense and doesn't hold by itself. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
A big problem they had in GSL was a bunch of bad maps for Toss, this season there are atleast 2 maps that are amazing for Toss(Daybreak and that one new maps) and TDA is also really good for Toss. | ||
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petro1987
Brazil374 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:59 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: So you are saying its impossible for terrans in korea to be better than zergs/protoss but its ok for foreigner terrans to be all shit players? I hope you realise how stupid is what you just said. Haha. This is so true. I've seen this argument by P players countless times. In their heads, it makes sense somehow. | ||
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TrickyGilligan
United States641 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:02 Alpina wrote: it's so funny.. all the races a capable of winning and everything is quite balanced, but some people (or a lot) starts whinning as soon as opposite race win and their race does not win a tournament. Now protoss doing good in two tournaments and every protoss is again happy, when absolutelly nothing changed. I guess if tomorrow toss loses again "i am a sad zealot" thread comes. Did you even read the thread? I haven't seen a single happy Protoss player in here. Lots of smug Z and T players telling the Protoss to stop whining, but if any Protoss are in the streets celebrating, it's not going on in this thread. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:03 TheLaw wrote: I honestly think this whole sad zealot thing is extremely whiny and childish. Every race has it's slumps sometimes... deal with it instead of crying. Hmm? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283186 Wheres the Terran slump, exactly? Anyway, kinda cautiously optimistic all round, not just for Protoss but for Zerg as well. I reckon reducing EMP radius could turn out to make a significant difference in both TvP and TvZ. | ||
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
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Nothingtosay
United States875 Posts
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ETisME
12497 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote: What happened is those strats got nerfed to the ground. Warpgate research, blink research, void ray, pylon radius... An example of the rationale used was "it's too hard for T to hold against blink rush. +20 seconds" Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go. That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard. the way I see it was that the blink nerf was not only for pvt but also pvz. (didn't huk used blink rush against terran today in gsl?) i actually thought the 4 gate nerf and pylon radius was to make pvp better. (and honestly, 90% of my zvp were 4 gates...I could see blizzard nerfing it just to make sure toss has more dimensions in their games) the 1-1-1 did get nerfed through the barracks build time and immortal's range upgrade? Not sure about MM through, I do feel that early trade, gateway is weaker but I don't really see protoss losing to terran by MM alone. Most often PvT loss is the ghost emp changing the entire engagement outcome. and honestly, toss players had been improving a lot recently, even without needing to use those newly buff'd units like warp prism. I won't be surprised to see more toss players to get better results. D: is this real life??? | ||
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