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Active: 754 users

Is it time for a Happy Zelot?

Forum Index > Closed
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NoobCamper
Profile Joined November 2011
United States22 Posts
November 09 2011 16:08 GMT
#1
Protoss seems to be doing very well in the past month.

+ Show Spoiler +
Huk win MLG and all 5 Protoss in the GSL has made it past the round of 32 in a pretty convincing way.


This is before patch 1.42, which begs the question. Is the Sad Zelot now a Happy Zelot.

The Protoss metagame has shifted significantly from Gateway + Collosi to a varity of strats involving warp prisms and stargate play.

In my personal opinion the days of doom and gloom has passed and there is hope. Protoss is on a winning streak.

I think its time for a Happy Zelot.
For Aiur. Killer/HuK/MC/Puzzle
ZeroCartin
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2390 Posts
November 09 2011 16:09 GMT
#2
I think its way too early to tell, but indeed there is a really bright future for protoss!
"My sister is on vacation in Costa Rica right now. I hope she stays a while because she's a miserable cunt." -pubbanana
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44329 Posts
November 09 2011 16:09 GMT
#3
Not until you spell it correctly.

+ Show Spoiler +
But I'll stay optimistic
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
TideRoll
Profile Joined September 2011
United States106 Posts
November 09 2011 16:10 GMT
#4
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
November 09 2011 16:11 GMT
#5
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
E.H Eager
Profile Joined August 2011
United States227 Posts
November 09 2011 16:12 GMT
#6
I don't think the new patch (which is obviously good for protoss) will make a huge difference, but things may be getting better!
hippocritical
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Australia465 Posts
November 09 2011 16:12 GMT
#7
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
November 09 2011 16:12 GMT
#8
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?

Well aren't you clever...
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44329 Posts
November 09 2011 16:12 GMT
#9
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


It's great to have you back
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
KDot2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1213 Posts
November 09 2011 16:13 GMT
#10
as a Zerg I hope in the future that Protoss continues with success ... as long as it is without mass collosus ... that unit IMO makes for uninteresting games and takes away from the skill of players like HuK and HerO but things like stargate/gateway/warp prism play lets them do their thing with great micro
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 09 2011 16:13 GMT
#11
I'll quote myself from the patch topic:

On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A

RO 32

19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)

Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.

IEM NY:

Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th

IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th

MLG Orlando:

P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th

P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)

So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.

Sad Zealot my ass.

"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:14:34
November 09 2011 16:14 GMT
#12
protoss are doing well because of zealots too, they should use them more tbh. They do great DPS and take forever to kill!
EDIT: less stalkers vs. T is very beneficial btw
:]
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
November 09 2011 16:15 GMT
#13
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Oh IdrA, don't you ever change.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria923 Posts
November 09 2011 16:15 GMT
#14
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.
Livin' this life like it was written.
CatalysT.
Profile Joined January 2011
59 Posts
November 09 2011 16:15 GMT
#15
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


why are you so beautiful?
Flash
Krallman
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden713 Posts
November 09 2011 16:15 GMT
#16
Allthough mass muta is getting more standard in pvz now and that'll the a hard one to break.
Im better than Stefan
iamnotcreativeatall
Profile Joined October 2011
6 Posts
November 09 2011 16:16 GMT
#17
yeah idra its not the race

every single protoss players was a noob you know...
IAmSpooner
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden111 Posts
November 09 2011 16:16 GMT
#18
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Never change. Ever.
When you play the game of drones, you win or you die.
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
November 09 2011 16:16 GMT
#19
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


they've only been above 50% in the GSL... a big reason because the korean terran players are just better than the koreans of the other races. it's true.
:]
Lunat!c
Profile Joined March 2010
122 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:19:30
November 09 2011 16:17 GMT
#20
It is too early to say anything about that.

Of course a Protoss won in a recent tournament, however on HuK's way to the top he had to play a lot of Protoss that is why I don't like this tournament win as some kind of evident whatsoever. And to say that Protoss are doing quite well in the past month is just wrong.

And tbh I don't like threads with an opening of 3-4 sentences. If you want to discuss something with the community please put some effort in your post.
Little-Chimp
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada948 Posts
November 09 2011 16:18 GMT
#21
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

This just became an entertaining thread.
chokke
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway228 Posts
November 09 2011 16:18 GMT
#22
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 09 2011 16:19 GMT
#23
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


I thought it was zeeeeeeeee-lot
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
November 09 2011 16:19 GMT
#24
On November 10 2011 01:17 Lunat!c wrote:
It is too early to say anything about that.

Of course a Protoss won in a recent tournament, however HuK's way to the top he had to play a lot of Protoss that is why I don't like this tournament win as some kind of evident what so ever. And to say that Protoss are doing quite well in the past month is just wrong.

And tbh I don't like threads with an opening of 3-4 sentences. If you want to discuss something with the community please put some effort in your post.


you seem to not like a lot of things lol.

so even though a protoss won you're unhappy because he didnt win vs. people you wanted him to win against? lol. im guessing you didnt like how MMA has gotten to the finals 2 times, both of which he TvTd his way there.
:]
DeadBull
Profile Joined August 2011
421 Posts
November 09 2011 16:20 GMT
#25
no. These toss players you named are just so much better than the others (@ the tourneys they won)
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11048 Posts
November 09 2011 16:20 GMT
#26
Seriously? One day guys?

We saw what happened after MLG Orlando -.-
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
November 09 2011 16:20 GMT
#27
Vs terran it looks really good right now.

But vs zerg some players really abuse mass muta or mass roach timing attacks to win, so we will see if the best protoss players can find a way to counter it.
CluEleSs_UK
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom583 Posts
November 09 2011 16:20 GMT
#28
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


<3

User was warned for this post
"If it turns out he is leaving the ESL to focus on cooking crystal meth I'll agree that it is somewhat disgraceful, but I'll hold off judgement until then."
Joseph123
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria1144 Posts
November 09 2011 16:20 GMT
#29
I'll stick to terran for now these results aren't convincing.
MLG_Wiggin
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States767 Posts
November 09 2011 16:21 GMT
#30
But guuuuyyysss. 1-1-1! E.M.P!

It's just metagame shifts and creative play when Protoss players do well.

Unless it's those dirty Terrans. Then those bastards are just OP :D
@DBWiggin, SC2 ref
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44329 Posts
November 09 2011 16:21 GMT
#31
On November 10 2011 01:19 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


I thought it was zeeeeeeeee-lot


It's pronounced man-lot.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
November 09 2011 16:21 GMT
#32
I'm a protoss player and I don't endorse the sad zealot nor the happy zealot.
o choro é livre
TideRoll
Profile Joined September 2011
United States106 Posts
November 09 2011 16:21 GMT
#33
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


No, it's not. It's pronounced /ˈzelət/
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 09 2011 16:21 GMT
#34
On November 10 2011 01:17 Lunat!c wrote:
It is too early to say anything about that.

Of course a Protoss won in a recent tournament, however on HuK's way to the top he had to play a lot of Protoss that is why I don't like this tournament win as some kind of evident what so ever. And to say that Protoss are doing quite well in the past month is just wrong.

And tbh I don't like threads with an opening of 3-4 sentences. If you want to discuss something with the community please put some effort in your post.


Yeah because MC(2nd place from that tournament BTW) won based on PvP and played against only T and Z scrubs

I mean he only beat:

Rain (T)
Ret(Z)
Puma(T)
MarineKing(T)
Idra(Z)
TheStc(T)

Yup MC had an easy PvP filled run to 2nd place.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
hippocritical
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Australia465 Posts
November 09 2011 16:22 GMT
#35
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


What we go by in Australia sounds closer to Zell-ot.
TideRoll
Profile Joined September 2011
United States106 Posts
November 09 2011 16:22 GMT
#36
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


This is what I wanted to say but I can't because I'm not Idra lol
Aurex
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada115 Posts
November 09 2011 16:22 GMT
#37
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


we just wanted the freewins zerg were getting from early pools and terrans from late expos. too much to ask?
RastaMonsta
Profile Joined October 2011
304 Posts
November 09 2011 16:23 GMT
#38
uh no its still sad zealot time
Brotocol
Profile Joined September 2011
243 Posts
November 09 2011 16:24 GMT
#39
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


That's how Scandinavians pronounce it, and technically, it's incorrect.

Zealot = "zellit"
"The Protoss ball of death is already too strong, so Protoss doesn't really need new units in HotS." - David Kim, Blizzcon 2011
Phayze
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2029 Posts
November 09 2011 16:24 GMT
#40
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

The zerg king has spoken!
Proud member of the LGA-1366 Core-i7 4Ghz Club
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 09 2011 16:25 GMT
#41
On November 10 2011 01:20 Sabu113 wrote:
Seriously? One day guys?

We saw what happened after MLG Orlando -.-


What happened after MLG orlando?

You know, P don't have to win everything so that they can be considered fine ....

If you are talking about RoG stars invitational:

1st place a Zerg
2nd place a T
3rd place a Protoss

"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
November 09 2011 16:25 GMT
#42
On November 10 2011 01:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:19 Hassybaby wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


I thought it was zeeeeeeeee-lot


It's pronounced man-lot.

Only Reach's ones are called that. Don't desecrate it.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 09 2011 16:25 GMT
#43
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


I wonder if this one will get a warning/ban. I guess not, if only for the entertainment value.

I'm not convinced yet. Sure, Protoss is doing far better in Code S now, but when that is a sample size of FOUR total, I'm not holding my breath for a period of Protoss doing very well. If this month bucks the trend and/or the trend changes over a period of time then yeah, of course. But as soon as P wins anything a lot of T players turn round and say: "see, game's balanced. Stop whining".
-Secret-
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom233 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:39:43
November 09 2011 16:25 GMT
#44
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


I agree 100% with this statement ^

Edit: if anyone from this thread gets banned/warning its probably a protoss player
S-Class
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (North)665 Posts
November 09 2011 16:26 GMT
#45
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

hah!
CluEleSs_UK
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom583 Posts
November 09 2011 16:26 GMT
#46
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.
"If it turns out he is leaving the ESL to focus on cooking crystal meth I'll agree that it is somewhat disgraceful, but I'll hold off judgement until then."
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
November 09 2011 16:27 GMT
#47
Well. We were buffed a few times. So as much as Idra may think it's because our heads are removed from ass, it's probably because we've been codedly changed...
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
November 09 2011 16:27 GMT
#48
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


I laughed out loud. Here's to hoping you don't get a warning .
Bora Pain minha porra!
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
November 09 2011 16:28 GMT
#49
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

You mean the same way as you did?I agree.
Cackle™
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
November 09 2011 16:28 GMT
#50
Happy Zealot is happy :3
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
November 09 2011 16:28 GMT
#51
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


idra!

Gimli terran salutes your brutal honesty.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
November 09 2011 16:30 GMT
#52
On November 10 2011 01:19 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


I thought it was zeeeeeeeee-lot

Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
November 09 2011 16:31 GMT
#53
Well, i hope it will stop all the protoss complains, cuz it was getting old now.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
DrSuit
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands33 Posts
November 09 2011 16:31 GMT
#54
It's pronounced gay-lot

User was warned for this post
Idra's beard is nasty
Harstem
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands263 Posts
November 09 2011 16:34 GMT
#55
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.
Progamer
IreScath
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada521 Posts
November 09 2011 16:34 GMT
#56
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.


1) MMM in majority of games is innovative? I'm not trying to be sarcastic... But wouldn't Terran be the least innovative in terms of strats we see?

2) Are the high level because they are good? Or are they high level because they play terran?... I'm not claiming either to be true, but I am just pointing out the flawed thinking in your second point.
IreScath
conz
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom163 Posts
November 09 2011 16:35 GMT
#57
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Looks like incontrol had the last protein shake...
TheRealDude: you were lucky you scouted
Jathin
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
United States3505 Posts
November 09 2011 16:36 GMT
#58
--- Nuked ---
dartoo
Profile Joined May 2010
India2889 Posts
November 09 2011 16:36 GMT
#59
Nope, not yet, The marine is still smiling, the zerglings are shrugging their shoulders, the zealot is wiping it's tears with a tissue, and looking forward to a better future, as it looks to board a warp prism with it's newly upgraded blades.

pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
November 09 2011 16:36 GMT
#60
On November 10 2011 01:28 TheKefka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

You mean the same way as you did?I agree.


Why did?



DrSuit
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands33 Posts
November 09 2011 16:37 GMT
#61
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

Zerg spend half a year figuring out how to win vs p. P hasn't even tried...
Idra's beard is nasty
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12391 Posts
November 09 2011 16:38 GMT
#62
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
November 09 2011 16:38 GMT
#63
On November 10 2011 01:37 DrSuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

Zerg spend half a year figuring out how to win vs p. P hasn't even tried...


I hope you realize how stupid this comment was
Resilient
Profile Joined June 2010
United Kingdom1431 Posts
November 09 2011 16:38 GMT
#64
On November 10 2011 01:37 DrSuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

Zerg spend half a year figuring out how to win vs p. P hasn't even tried...


You don't watch any Starcraft. Period.
zakmaa
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada525 Posts
November 09 2011 16:38 GMT
#65
Yeah Protoss does seem to be on the move, however I wouldn't jump to conclusions. I think Blizzard made good on addressing the issue with the new patch but I think they addressed it in the wrong way. Now Zealots can have an armor of 5 (incl. guardian shield) at 15 minutes in the game..
DrSuit
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands33 Posts
November 09 2011 16:39 GMT
#66
On November 10 2011 01:38 pPingu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:37 DrSuit wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

Zerg spend half a year figuring out how to win vs p. P hasn't even tried...


I hope you realize how stupid this comment was

Solid point
Idra's beard is nasty
Cheno
Profile Joined September 2011
Denmark70 Posts
November 09 2011 16:39 GMT
#67
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


+1

User was warned for this post
Information is power!
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
November 09 2011 16:39 GMT
#68
On November 10 2011 01:37 DrSuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

Zerg spend half a year figuring out how to win vs p. P hasn't even tried...

Yep, those Zerg buffs and Protoss nerfs really required a lot of meta-game evolution from Zerg players.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
November 09 2011 16:39 GMT
#69
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

I'm starting to think Tassadar killed IdrA's parents.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
Refreshe
Profile Joined May 2010
United States141 Posts
November 09 2011 16:39 GMT
#70
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


That sounds like you LOL
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
November 09 2011 16:40 GMT
#71
PvZ is still a freewin for a competent Zerg.
wat
-Secret-
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom233 Posts
November 09 2011 16:40 GMT
#72
On November 10 2011 01:40 Elefanto wrote:
PvZ is still a freewin for a competent Zerg.


PvZ is a freewin for protoss players who have a brain
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
November 09 2011 16:41 GMT
#73
Protoss play has really developed tremendously. We see a lot more drops, better multitasking, more solid macro styles, and even better unit control these days than even just a few months ago. In today's GSL, Protoss did very well, and not only hasn't the new patch hit, but the old one was barely relevant--hardly anyone made immortals, and the only prism appeared in pvp. In other words, the recent patch had nothing to do with Protoss winning, it was all the players getting better. Killer especially looks amazing, but HuK is very polished, MC is back on form, and there are so many newer toss with really cool and innovative styles.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Traumwolle
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany25 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:48:55
November 09 2011 16:41 GMT
#74
On November 10 2011 01:13 windsupernova wrote:
I'll quote myself from the patch topic:

Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A

RO 32

19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)

Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.

IEM NY:

Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th

IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th

MLG Orlando:

P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th

P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)

So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.

Sad Zealot my ass.



and you only quote tournaments, where terrans don't where on the top. so i continue for you

IPL 4 Pacfic
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

Blizzcon 2011
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

GSL October
T 1st
T 2nd
T 3rd/4th

GSL August
T 1st
T 2nd
T/Z 3rd/4th

TLPD rates aren't close at 50% yet. terran is always ahead the both other races.
Stop acting as if terran is in bad shape.
sad terran my ass.

and ontopic:

i think it's too early to say protoss have a comeback. it was just the first round.
and we'll have to wait if one protoss can make it to the gsl finals or not, but i think
the capabilities of protoss are still too limited to reach that.
hasuterrans
Profile Joined April 2009
United States614 Posts
November 09 2011 16:42 GMT
#75
On November 10 2011 01:40 Elefanto wrote:
PvZ is still a freewin for a competent Zerg.


But protoss seem mostly interested in complaining about ghosts.
DrSuit
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands33 Posts
November 09 2011 16:42 GMT
#76
On November 10 2011 01:38 Resilient wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:37 DrSuit wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

Zerg spend half a year figuring out how to win vs p. P hasn't even tried...


You don't watch any Starcraft. Period.

You don't shower. Period

User was temp banned for this post.
Idra's beard is nasty
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 09 2011 16:42 GMT
#77
On November 10 2011 01:39 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

I'm starting to think Tassadar killed IdrA's parents.


Well

+ Show Spoiler +

He did kill the Overmind
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
November 09 2011 16:42 GMT
#78
On November 10 2011 01:39 DrSuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:38 pPingu wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:37 DrSuit wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.

Zerg spend half a year figuring out how to win vs p. P hasn't even tried...


I hope you realize how stupid this comment was

Solid point

You are completely wrong.

Protoss spend half a year figuring out how to win vs z. Z hasn't even tried...

My point is solid, yours is not.
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:44:34
November 09 2011 16:43 GMT
#79
On November 10 2011 01:36 pPingu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:28 TheKefka wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

You mean the same way as you did?I agree.


Why did?


I guess because he is not whining as much lately and actually winning tournaments and you can't argue against that so,yea.He practiced and now he is winning.Good for him if it stays like that.
Cackle™
NoobCamper
Profile Joined November 2011
United States22 Posts
November 09 2011 16:43 GMT
#80
Sorry at work didn't have much time to post.. but was very happy with the wins today.

Also I would argue that I should get some leeway because it is my first time posting ^^;
For Aiur. Killer/HuK/MC/Puzzle
EricCartman
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada306 Posts
November 09 2011 16:44 GMT
#81
IMO it was always time for happy zealot. Just that the tosses havent figured the nuances of their own race. Perishing to timing attacks is truly unfortunate but hey you have obs so scout it out and prepare accordingly!
Naeroon
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada166 Posts
November 09 2011 16:44 GMT
#82
On November 10 2011 01:41 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Protoss play has really developed tremendously. We see a lot more drops, better multitasking, more solid macro styles, and even better unit control these days than even just a few months ago. In today's GSL, Protoss did very well, and not only hasn't the new patch hit, but the old one was barely relevant--hardly anyone made immortals, and the only prism appeared in pvp. In other words, the recent patch had nothing to do with Protoss winning, it was all the players getting better. Killer especially looks amazing, but HuK is very polished, MC is back on form, and there are so many newer toss with really cool and innovative styles.


The previous patch had nothing to do with protoss winning?

Yeah because it's not like we started to see immortals and warp prisms used infinitely more after the patch. Ok. You're absolutely correct. I still never see these units in play ever and thus they did not contribute at all to the increase in success of protoss players.

/sarcasm
Hassybaby
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom10823 Posts
November 09 2011 16:44 GMT
#83
On November 10 2011 01:30 tuestresfat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:19 Hassybaby wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


I thought it was zeeeeeeeee-lot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4xBHq60N8&list=FLYKKIfhgZE6Z-Zi9oCtzLEQ&index=40&feature=plpp_video


I was waiting for someone to get the quote :D

+ Show Spoiler +
I'm in the wait-and-see category as well. A lot of games in the GSL involved their opponents doing questionable moves (why wouldn't you just attack-move the probes July...)
"These guys are mindfucking me into a sex coma" | "Mayonnaise is a must-have lubricant when performing necrophilia"
Brotocol
Profile Joined September 2011
243 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:51:11
November 09 2011 16:46 GMT
#84
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


What happened is those strats got nerfed to the ground. Warpgate research, blink research, void ray, pylon radius... An example of the rationale used was "it's too hard for T to hold against blink rush. +20 seconds"

Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.
"The Protoss ball of death is already too strong, so Protoss doesn't really need new units in HotS." - David Kim, Blizzcon 2011
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
November 09 2011 16:46 GMT
#85
It's funny that finally Protoss aren't doing completely aweful again and suddenly people are acting like the last 4+ months nothing was wrong.
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:48:38
November 09 2011 16:46 GMT
#86
The previous patch had nothing to do with protoss winning?

Yeah because it's not like we started to see immortals and warp prisms used infinitely more after the patch. Ok. You're absolutely correct. I still never see these units in play ever and thus they did not contribute at all to the increase in success of protoss players.


My point wasn't about all Protoss play ever in general, it was about today's GSL results specifically. It is the poor showing of Toss in GSL, particularly Code S, that has inspired most of the complaints. Today, protoss ran the table, and they did so without using anything that was really effected by the new patch. In other words, regardless of the patch's impact, it seems clear that top Korean Protoss players have also developed their play significantly from the days in which they were getting roflstomped left and right.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
November 09 2011 16:47 GMT
#87
I love how idra clearly still spends tons of time on TL as he ends up first page on this thread, but rarely posts these days and probably hasn't said anything intelligent in his last 100 posts.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
Naeroon
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada166 Posts
November 09 2011 16:48 GMT
#88
On November 10 2011 01:46 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Show nested quote +
The previous patch had nothing to do with protoss winning?

Yeah because it's not like we started to see immortals and warp prisms used infinitely more after the patch. Ok. You're absolutely correct. I still never see these units in play ever and thus they did not contribute at all to the increase in success of protoss players.


My point wasn't about all Protoss play evver in general, it was about today's GSL results specifically. It is the poor showing of Toss in GSL, particularly Code S, that has inspired most of the complaints. Today, protoss ran the table, and they did so without using anything that was really effected by the new patch. In other words, regardless of the patch's impact, it seems clear that top Korean Protoss players have also developed their play significantly from the days in which they were getting roflstomped left and right.


I completely agree with what you are saying and I too have seen the increase of skill (and love it!), I suppose it was merely your wording that got under my skin. Apologies if I came off as a bit too aggressive.
nokz88
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1253 Posts
November 09 2011 16:48 GMT
#89
On November 10 2011 01:16 hahaimhenry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


they've only been above 50% in the GSL... a big reason because the korean terran players are just better than the koreans of the other races. it's true.


...I disagree. It's just that foreign terran players have no clue how to play their race. PlayXP folks(myself included) facepalm every time they get to watch a foreign Terran, except for maybe, MAYBE Thorzain.
in a state of trance
lurked
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada918 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 16:56:32
November 09 2011 16:50 GMT
#90
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.


1) You're wearing your nickname very well!
2) I don't think we've been watching the same game evolving since beta, if you're really serious with that and aren't trolling.

-

Ofc, metagame shifts are deemed to happen, and when it happens, a race that wasn't at the top will probably be at the top for a few days/weeks, maybe even 1-2months, until people realize how to adjust to the shift.

The issue that a lot of people are having right now, is the fact that every time the metagame shifts, another race is at the top for a little while, until Terran players adjust, then Terran is at the top for a few months, until the next shift...

I don't mind this happening at all, as I'm far from a level that my gameplay would be limited by my race being a tiny bit weaker at the highest competition level, but I understand where people are coming from to bring that kind of comments.

However, I really can't understand where you are coming from, to say Protoss are doing the same builds since beta...

-

Anyway, I can't wait to see what this shift + the slight buffs in 1.4.2 will bring to the table.

Edit: Damn my english grammar is bad... -_-
Magic is "just" magic until I get my hands on the source code.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 09 2011 16:52 GMT
#91
On November 10 2011 01:41 AlexP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:13 windsupernova wrote:
I'll quote myself from the patch topic:

On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A

RO 32

19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)

Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.

IEM NY:

Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th

IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th

MLG Orlando:

P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th

P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)

So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.

Sad Zealot my ass.



and you only quote tournaments, where terrans don't where on the top. so i continue for you

IPL 4 Pacfic
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

Blizzcon 2011
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

GSL October
T 1st
T 2nd
T 3rd/4th

GSL August
T 1st
T 2nd
T/Z 3rd/4th

TLPD rates aren't close at 50% yet. terran is always ahead the both other races.
Stop acting as if terran is in bad shape.
sad terran my ass.


I was mentioning only more recentish tournaments. I must admit I forgot to mention GSL august and Blizzcon, didn't watch IPL4.

TLPD winrates:
T 52.9%
P 51.8%
Z 44.9%

All of them are pretty close to 50%, yeah P has been doing badly(I even acknowledge in my post which apparently you didn't read because I never said T was doing badly lol) but that is expected when the metagame shifts.

Also:

I didn't say terran was in a bad shape?

Further: I think you missed completely the point of my post, I was not claiming that all is fine and dandy. I was claiming that the state of the balance is not nearly as bad as whiners are making it out to be. Its clear that P, Z and T are all capable of winning championships and place well in tournaments. Try reading my post before trying to be ""smart" about your rebutal
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
November 09 2011 16:53 GMT
#92
One can only hope
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 09 2011 16:56 GMT
#93
On November 10 2011 01:46 Logros wrote:
It's funny that finally Protoss aren't doing completely aweful again and suddenly people are acting like the last 4+ months nothing was wrong.


Not many people are acting that way. But what do you want us to do? Retroactively take away the trophies T and Z won?

P got better, not completely unreasonable assertion to make. We will have to wait of course but overall I think that thanks to the new format Code S will be much more balanced next season( If you only want to count Code S as the highest level of play)
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
November 09 2011 16:58 GMT
#94
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Aww... pure gold!

I wonder how many toss-TLers had this quote open with a nasty flame, then realized the name, gulped and refrained from posting... :D
SpaceYeti
Profile Joined June 2010
United States723 Posts
November 09 2011 16:58 GMT
#95
I find it amazing that the Protoss "King" is someone who had a 10% win percentage in SC:BW.

Maybe IdrA has a point.
Behavior is a function of its consequences.
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
November 09 2011 16:59 GMT
#96
On November 10 2011 01:48 nokz88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:16 hahaimhenry wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


they've only been above 50% in the GSL... a big reason because the korean terran players are just better than the koreans of the other races. it's true.


...I disagree. It's just that foreign terran players have no clue how to play their race. PlayXP folks(myself included) facepalm every time they get to watch a foreign Terran, except for maybe, MAYBE Thorzain.


So you are saying its impossible for terrans in korea to be better than zergs/protoss but its ok for foreigner terrans to be all shit players? I hope you realise how stupid is what you just said.

Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
hasuterrans
Profile Joined April 2009
United States614 Posts
November 09 2011 16:59 GMT
#97
On November 10 2011 01:52 windsupernova wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:41 AlexP wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:13 windsupernova wrote:
I'll quote myself from the patch topic:

On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A

RO 32

19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)

Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.

IEM NY:

Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th

IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th

MLG Orlando:

P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th

P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)

So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.

Sad Zealot my ass.



and you only quote tournaments, where terrans don't where on the top. so i continue for you

IPL 4 Pacfic
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

Blizzcon 2011
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

GSL October
T 1st
T 2nd
T 3rd/4th

GSL August
T 1st
T 2nd
T/Z 3rd/4th

TLPD rates aren't close at 50% yet. terran is always ahead the both other races.
Stop acting as if terran is in bad shape.
sad terran my ass.


I was mentioning only more recentish tournaments. I must admit I forgot to mention GSL august and Blizzcon, didn't watch IPL4.

TLPD winrates:
T 52.9%
P 51.8%
Z 44.9%

All of them are pretty close to 50%, yeah P has been doing badly(I even acknowledge in my post which apparently you didn't read because I never said T was doing badly lol) but that is expected when the metagame shifts.

Also:

I didn't say terran was in a bad shape?

Further: I think you missed completely the point of my post, I was not claiming that all is fine and dandy. I was claiming that the state of the balance is not nearly as bad as whiners are making it out to be. Its clear that P, Z and T are all capable of winning championships and place well in tournaments. Try reading my post before trying to be ""smart" about your rebutal


The real issue is the huge influx of NA diamond and low masters protoss who come to the forums and whine about terran b/c they watched <insert tournament> even though PvZ has been far more difficult for a while now.
cmen15
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1519 Posts
November 09 2011 17:00 GMT
#98
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


I love this man ^^^ <3.
In other news I agree with alot of people that with protoss going away from colsi heavy builds, it makes for better games. I am quite of fan of watching good protoss micro even though I play zerg lol. I think the meta game is going in a good direction.
Greed leads to just about all losses.
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
November 09 2011 17:01 GMT
#99
On November 10 2011 01:34 Harstem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


So if zerg loses blizzard should nerf p and t. If protoss loses they need to pull their heads out of their asses.
Silly hypocrite.


When IdrA was a protoss player in the beta, he said that PvT was impossible to lose unless you fucked up majorly.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
November 09 2011 17:02 GMT
#100
it's so funny..

all the races a capable of winning and everything is quite balanced, but some people (or a lot) starts whinning as soon as opposite race win and their race does not win a tournament. Now protoss doing good in two tournaments and every protoss is again happy, when absolutelly nothing changed.

I guess if tomorrow toss loses again "i am a sad zealot" thread comes.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Lord_J
Profile Joined April 2011
Kenya1085 Posts
November 09 2011 17:03 GMT
#101
I think that would be premature until we see to what extent Terran players can adapt to the new trends in Protoss play. Also, I haven't seen many promising developments in PvZ yet. Still, it's a glimmer of hope, and perhaps with the patch will mark the beginning of a turnaround.
No relation to Monsieur J.
TheLaw
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States172 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:04:07
November 09 2011 17:03 GMT
#102
I honestly think this whole sad zealot thing is extremely whiny and childish. Every race has it's slumps sometimes... deal with it instead of crying.
Cowards die in shame.
Xcobidoo
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1871 Posts
November 09 2011 17:07 GMT
#103
Do remember that all the P in the ro16 can still get knocked down into code A/up&downs, actually the chance of only 1 Z being directly qualified for code S next season is quite high...
Supreme Intergalactic Commander
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
November 09 2011 17:07 GMT
#104
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
November 09 2011 17:11 GMT
#105
On November 10 2011 01:47 jamesr12 wrote:
I love how idra clearly still spends tons of time on TL as he ends up first page on this thread, but rarely posts these days and probably hasn't said anything intelligent in his last 100 posts.

Why post intelligent and helpful things when you can complain about your race?

Works for most TL users.

CluEleSs_UK
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom583 Posts
November 09 2011 17:15 GMT
#106
On November 10 2011 01:34 B00ts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.


1) MMM in majority of games is innovative? I'm not trying to be sarcastic... But wouldn't Terran be the least innovative in terms of strats we see?

2) Are the high level because they are good? Or are they high level because they play terran?... I'm not claiming either to be true, but I am just pointing out the flawed thinking in your second point.


I'll admit a lot of players play MMM, but they manage to do so many different things with it. Take MVPDream v Boxer today, boxer did this mass drop onto mech with vikings style which has never been seen before! Top Terrans seem to take a problem, and think of a way to fix it: tanks own bio -> make bio fly; vikings own flying things -> make vikings too.

& the argument that players were top because they played Terran was certainly viable in beta, but we've seen a lot of those players fall out of favour (painuser, strelok, etc). Perhaps Terran benefits the most from good mechanics and multitasking, and thus is the most stable race, explaining why so many of the top koreans are terrans? Who knows, I suppose I'm just speculating.
"If it turns out he is leaving the ESL to focus on cooking crystal meth I'll agree that it is somewhat disgraceful, but I'll hold off judgement until then."
4of8
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany256 Posts
November 09 2011 17:17 GMT
#107
All these mad zerglings and mad marines are just jealous because they don't have a fanclub like the cute lil sad zealot. :D

Today was a happy day for all the zealots over the world, but the the general mood will stay pretty sad untill we got another GSL Champion and/or the tourney stats in general will be more balanced. And to stay pessimistic, there is quite a good chance that all Toss will still go down to code a this season thx to the new system
ooozer
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany231 Posts
November 09 2011 17:17 GMT
#108
Maybe terrans are just not used to colossi, since they emp'd the shoi out of toss for the last 3-4 months because of our HT builds. Once colossi are frequently used terrans start adding vikings before ghost and we'll have the same state of the game as the pre-archive time.
Ziktomini
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom377 Posts
November 09 2011 17:17 GMT
#109
Protoss players will never be happy until they have a 100% win rate.

On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Lol, so true though.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
November 09 2011 17:18 GMT
#110
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Word.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:18:55
November 09 2011 17:18 GMT
#111
On November 10 2011 02:17 Ziktomini wrote:
Protoss players will never be happy until they have a 100% win rate.

Sounds like zerg players.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
November 09 2011 17:20 GMT
#112
On November 10 2011 01:41 AlexP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:13 windsupernova wrote:
I'll quote myself from the patch topic:

On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A

RO 32

19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)

Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.

IEM NY:

Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th

IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th

MLG Orlando:

P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th

P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)

So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.

Sad Zealot my ass.



and you only quote tournaments, where terrans don't where on the top. so i continue for you

IPL 4 Pacfic
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

Blizzcon 2011
T 1st
Z 2nd
Z 3rd

GSL October
T 1st
T 2nd
T 3rd/4th

GSL August
T 1st
T 2nd
T/Z 3rd/4th

TLPD rates aren't close at 50% yet. terran is always ahead the both other races.
Stop acting as if terran is in bad shape.
sad terran my ass.

and ontopic:

i think it's too early to say protoss have a comeback. it was just the first round.
and we'll have to wait if one protoss can make it to the gsl finals or not, but i think
the capabilities of protoss are still too limited to reach that.


Why should Terran rates be 50%? Why should any race have 50%? What happens if the T players are a lot better than anyone else? You have to watch the games and analyze them from an overall player skill perspective before making such broad statements. Is Flash OP or is it Terran? Is NesTea OP or is it Zerg? I would argue that Terran in SC2 have far better players than either race. You have MMA, Happy, MVP, TaeJa, GanZi, sC, PuMa, ForGG, etc. (Bomber has been playing badly of late) which if you watch their games simply have better multi-tasking, micro, macro, game-sense, etc. than most other players from other races.

I never understood the argument ceteris paribus that each race should have 50% win rates (or close thereof). It makes no logical sense and doesn't hold by itself.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
November 09 2011 17:21 GMT
#113
It's not only this Code S season where Toss do well. Code A, the last matches of GSTL, MLG 2P in the top 2, ESWC 2P in the top 4, ROG thingie 2P in the top 4, ESV finals 2P in the top 2 etc

A big problem they had in GSL was a bunch of bad maps for Toss, this season there are atleast 2 maps that are amazing for Toss(Daybreak and that one new maps) and TDA is also really good for Toss.

petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
November 09 2011 17:24 GMT
#114
On November 10 2011 01:59 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:48 nokz88 wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:16 hahaimhenry wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


they've only been above 50% in the GSL... a big reason because the korean terran players are just better than the koreans of the other races. it's true.


...I disagree. It's just that foreign terran players have no clue how to play their race. PlayXP folks(myself included) facepalm every time they get to watch a foreign Terran, except for maybe, MAYBE Thorzain.


So you are saying its impossible for terrans in korea to be better than zergs/protoss but its ok for foreigner terrans to be all shit players? I hope you realise how stupid is what you just said.



Haha. This is so true. I've seen this argument by P players countless times. In their heads, it makes sense somehow.
TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
November 09 2011 17:24 GMT
#115
On November 10 2011 02:02 Alpina wrote:
it's so funny..

all the races a capable of winning and everything is quite balanced, but some people (or a lot) starts whinning as soon as opposite race win and their race does not win a tournament. Now protoss doing good in two tournaments and every protoss is again happy, when absolutelly nothing changed.

I guess if tomorrow toss loses again "i am a sad zealot" thread comes.


Did you even read the thread? I haven't seen a single happy Protoss player in here. Lots of smug Z and T players telling the Protoss to stop whining, but if any Protoss are in the streets celebrating, it's not going on in this thread.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:26:26
November 09 2011 17:25 GMT
#116
On November 10 2011 02:03 TheLaw wrote:
I honestly think this whole sad zealot thing is extremely whiny and childish. Every race has it's slumps sometimes... deal with it instead of crying.


Hmm?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283186

Wheres the Terran slump, exactly?



Anyway, kinda cautiously optimistic all round, not just for Protoss but for Zerg as well. I reckon reducing EMP radius could turn out to make a significant difference in both TvP and TvZ.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
wklbishop
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1286 Posts
November 09 2011 17:26 GMT
#117
Just want to point out that it also has a lot to do with the current map pool, definitely not completely, but still something to point out.
Gameplay > Personality
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6259 Posts
November 09 2011 17:27 GMT
#118
Idra adding spice to this thread and it's going to be a big one coz of it!
Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
November 09 2011 17:27 GMT
#119
Significantly negative win rates since april in both matchups in all regions isn't counteracted by 1 tournament win and the success in the round of 32. IMO PvT isn't that bad at all really. The funny thing is you have some protoss players like sage that dominate PvZ while almost everyone else has been getting annihilated for months. Even JYP is having trouble with zerg now. If only ACE and Squirtle would come back on the scene they always did a good job of keeping the zerg in line.
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12391 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:34:08
November 09 2011 17:28 GMT
#120
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


What happened is those strats got nerfed to the ground. Warpgate research, blink research, void ray, pylon radius... An example of the rationale used was "it's too hard for T to hold against blink rush. +20 seconds"

Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

the way I see it was that the blink nerf was not only for pvt but also pvz. (didn't huk used blink rush against terran today in gsl?)
i actually thought the 4 gate nerf and pylon radius was to make pvp better. (and honestly, 90% of my zvp were 4 gates...I could see blizzard nerfing it just to make sure toss has more dimensions in their games)

the 1-1-1 did get nerfed through the barracks build time and immortal's range upgrade?
Not sure about MM through, I do feel that early trade, gateway is weaker but I don't really see protoss losing to terran by MM alone. Most often PvT loss is the ghost emp changing the entire engagement outcome.

and honestly, toss players had been improving a lot recently, even without needing to use those newly buff'd units like warp prism. I won't be surprised to see more toss players to get better results.

On November 10 2011 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Word.


D:
is this real life???
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
November 09 2011 17:28 GMT
#121
Is this some sick joke? Everyone knows that all the Protoss players in the GSL are 10 times as good as their opponents. It's important to take into account the relative skill of the players before trying to discuss Balance. It's not PvT or PvZ -- it's fucking Sangho vs some Drone whore / EMP whore. We're talking about players that have been denied their right to win on a level playing field. Sangho and Huk being barely able to beat far inferior players says more about how their incredible skill than balance.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
November 09 2011 17:29 GMT
#122
On November 10 2011 02:18 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:17 Ziktomini wrote:
Protoss players will never be happy until they have a 100% win rate.

Sounds like zerg players.

Terran players seem to be on the rise as well now that they might drop under 55% win.
I had a good night of sleep.
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
November 09 2011 17:29 GMT
#123
On November 10 2011 02:24 TrickyGilligan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:02 Alpina wrote:
it's so funny..

all the races a capable of winning and everything is quite balanced, but some people (or a lot) starts whinning as soon as opposite race win and their race does not win a tournament. Now protoss doing good in two tournaments and every protoss is again happy, when absolutelly nothing changed.

I guess if tomorrow toss loses again "i am a sad zealot" thread comes.


Did you even read the thread? I haven't seen a single happy Protoss player in here. Lots of smug Z and T players telling the Protoss to stop whining, but if any Protoss are in the streets celebrating, it's not going on in this thread.


I think it's a lot of people who have no idea what they are talking about especially when they broadly state that each race should ~50% win rate. If you brought Flash, BaBy, Midas, Mind, etc. over to SC2 would the same argument still apply? They have to nerf the race because the players who play them are too good? What sort of argument is that? Handicap players because they are too good? If the players ceteris paribus have the same skill then yes, we should see ~50%, but how many people have actually bothered to go through all the games and rate each players skill relative to others? I usually do not miss many Korean games, and I can clearly see a massive skill difference between a lot of the top Terrans, and the top players of other races though Zerg is not too far behind in player skill. Protoss players just have far less skill than their counter-parts, and in the last few months they have finally started to catch up, thus you see more wins.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
November 09 2011 17:31 GMT
#124
On November 10 2011 02:29 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:18 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:17 Ziktomini wrote:
Protoss players will never be happy until they have a 100% win rate.

Sounds like zerg players.

Terran players seem to be on the rise as well now that they might drop under 55% win.

Better buff the marine, then.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
November 09 2011 17:32 GMT
#125
On November 10 2011 02:07 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.



People thought stalkers did too much DPS?

Stimmed marines with 3 attack do 15.6dps, stalkers with 3 attack do 9dps to light and 11.8 to armored without smart fire causing a lot of overkills, while stalkers cost 3.5x as much, 50 of those resources being gas.


Ive heard a lot of complaints about blink stalkers when well micro'd, but i think anyone who complains about the DPS output of stalkers has no idea what they are talking about at this point
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
November 09 2011 17:32 GMT
#126
On November 10 2011 02:25 Lightspeaker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:03 TheLaw wrote:
I honestly think this whole sad zealot thing is extremely whiny and childish. Every race has it's slumps sometimes... deal with it instead of crying.


Hmm?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283186

Wheres the Terran slump, exactly?



Anyway, kinda cautiously optimistic all round, not just for Protoss but for Zerg as well. I reckon reducing EMP radius could turn out to make a significant difference in both TvP and TvZ.


Terrans been in a slump since January according to the graph
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Venatore
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom7 Posts
November 09 2011 17:34 GMT
#127
I love how Blizzard has to use Statistical Data and Analytical Thinking in order to improve the game while the geniuses among you can do it without bothering with any of that useless stuff. (yes sarcasm)

Case and Point: http://i.imgur.com/JW38u.png ZvP is still in favor of Z for the 7th month running and this needs to be addressed. PvT hopefully emp nerf will help P in that match up.

For the record: I play mid master Terran so i am not saying this because i want my own race buffed.
si post fata venit gloria non propero
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:35:02
November 09 2011 17:34 GMT
#128
On November 10 2011 02:32 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:07 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.



People thought stalkers did too much DPS?

Stimmed marines with 3 attack do 15.6dps, stalkers with 3 attack do 9dps to light and 11.8 to armored without smart fire causing a lot of overkills, while stalkers cost 3.5x as much, 50 of those resources being gas.


Ive heard a lot of complaints about blink stalkers when well micro'd, but i think anyone who complains about the DPS output of stalkers has no idea what they are talking about at this point

It was in a blog post Sen did way back when. Dimaga apparently wrote an email to each member of the balance team addressing his issues with the game, one of them was stalker DPS. I could never take him seriously again after reading it.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
Sassymcgee
Profile Joined August 2010
United States24 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:34:37
November 09 2011 17:34 GMT
#129
Ahhhh having to do the (other) strats that tyler was talking about months ago nooooo something new nooo.

The sad zealot was just sad he had downs, happy zealot is happy he picked protoss.
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
November 09 2011 17:34 GMT
#130
On November 10 2011 02:28 QTIP. wrote:
Is this some sick joke? Everyone knows that all the Protoss players in the GSL are 10 times as good as their opponents. It's important to take into account the relative skill of the players before trying to discuss Balance. It's not PvT or PvZ -- it's fucking Sangho vs some Drone whore / EMP whore. We're talking about players that have been denied their right to win on a level playing field. Sangho and Huk being barely able to beat far inferior players says more about how their incredible skill than balance.

Drones aren't one the same level as EMP.

EMP is a flawless ability without drawback because you trade energy for energy or shield. That's free damage.

Drones are workers. Making them prevents you from building troops. It's a severe drawback.
raf3776
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1904 Posts
November 09 2011 17:34 GMT
#131
I dont think so. Most of the games with protoss have been won by the opponent playing terrible. Puzzle got through on two easy games and Huk beat clide because Clide was playing bad. Hero barely made it through. If crazy played like the 1st game I dont think hero wouldve made it through.
WWJD (What Would Jaedong Do)
HuHEN
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom514 Posts
November 09 2011 17:35 GMT
#132
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


What an absurd hypocrite you are.
Micket
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2163 Posts
November 09 2011 17:35 GMT
#133
If you look at how Protoss won games last spring, you would realise why people like Idra and Jinro are saying how Protoss haven't necessarily been playing their race to the potential Zerg and Terran have reached. I still haven't seen a game where the Protoss deserved to win but lost anyway (except vs 1/1/1). Unless there are literally ZERO good PvZ builds, I see Zerg players winning games due to metagame advantage, and that the cycle will come full circle, just like it always does (unless P truly is very weak). Still, a few balance patches didn't hurt.

Anything to discourage deathball play is nice. Mothership vs Z will be standard if they infestor broodlord turtle.
Endall
Profile Joined August 2011
United States66 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:36:03
November 09 2011 17:35 GMT
#134
Well, HuK has always proved his ability, but there are no gold mins for Terran in GSL, so it could very from league to league, tournament to tournament. But the patch should prove to with some better pushes and defenses for them though! PROTOS FIGHTING! zerg)

edit: added "always"
No reply.
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3683 Posts
November 09 2011 17:35 GMT
#135
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Hahaha nothing better than Idra raging about protoss chobo player.
VoO
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany278 Posts
November 09 2011 17:36 GMT
#136
On November 10 2011 02:29 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:18 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:17 Ziktomini wrote:
Protoss players will never be happy until they have a 100% win rate.

Sounds like zerg players.

Terran players seem to be on the rise as well now that they might drop under 55% win.


They... obviously you are too fucking stupid to understand statistics, don't ever post anything about balance please.
♥ 김택용 ♥Casual Dwarf Fortress Progamer
Assaulter
Profile Joined December 2010
Lithuania324 Posts
November 09 2011 17:37 GMT
#137
On November 10 2011 02:35 HuHEN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


What an absurd hypocrite you are.

this is all happening before patch 1.4.2 hit in Korea. this is why blizzard needs to leave the game ALONE. for a longer time. and dont go nerfing/buffing stuff so often. players need time to fix shit themselves. if they cant do it, then it might be imbalanced and needs a patch. NOT when platinum protosses cry on forums that terran is OP
Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:37:37
November 09 2011 17:37 GMT
#138
On November 10 2011 02:28 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


What happened is those strats got nerfed to the ground. Warpgate research, blink research, void ray, pylon radius... An example of the rationale used was "it's too hard for T to hold against blink rush. +20 seconds"

Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

the way I see it was that the blink nerf was not only for pvt but also pvz. (didn't huk used blink rush against terran today in gsl?)
i actually thought the 4 gate nerf and pylon radius was to make pvp better. (and honestly, 90% of my zvp were 4 gates...I could see blizzard nerfing it just to make sure toss has more dimensions in their games)

the 1-1-1 did get nerfed through the barracks build time and immortal's range upgrade?
Not sure about MM through, I do feel that early trade, gateway is weaker but I don't really see protoss losing to terran by MM alone. Most often PvT loss is the ghost emp changing the entire engagement outcome.

and honestly, toss players had been improving a lot recently, even without needing to use those newly buff'd units like warp prism. I won't be surprised to see more toss players to get better results.

Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Word.


D:
is this real life???

If you watch Jinro's stream you will hear and see that he is atleast as opinionated as idra if not more (I would say more) about protoss.
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
November 09 2011 17:38 GMT
#139
On November 10 2011 02:34 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:32 Cyro wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:07 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.



People thought stalkers did too much DPS?

Stimmed marines with 3 attack do 15.6dps, stalkers with 3 attack do 9dps to light and 11.8 to armored without smart fire causing a lot of overkills, while stalkers cost 3.5x as much, 50 of those resources being gas.


Ive heard a lot of complaints about blink stalkers when well micro'd, but i think anyone who complains about the DPS output of stalkers has no idea what they are talking about at this point

It was in a blog post Sen did way back when. Dimaga apparently wrote an email to each member of the balance team addressing his issues with the game, one of them was stalker DPS. I could never take him seriously again after reading it.



He wrote an email to BOTH of them?
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Thurokiir
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
November 09 2011 17:38 GMT
#140
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Time for zerg to stop overdroning and losing for no good reason
Tahts halo dont worry
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 09 2011 17:39 GMT
#141
On November 10 2011 02:28 ETisME wrote:
the 1-1-1 did get nerfed through the barracks build time and immortal's range upgrade?


While the Immortal range upgrade certainly helped a bit, the Barracks build time nerf was for FIVE ingame seconds. Delaying ANY push, especially one like the 1-1-1, but five seconds does barely anything.

The 1-1-1 has seen less dominance recently for a few reasons, in my eyes:

- The amount of abuse Puma got from the community for 1-1-1ing MC twice at IEM Cologne.
- A general desire from players to be seen as less "cheesy" and win straight up.
- Maps growing in size (TDA, Calm Before Storm etc)
- Protoss players expecting it so often and learning how to blind counter it (MC style: 1gate FE no matter what, add on 4gates and a Robo, make Obs then Immortals then either use the army to defend the 1-1-1 or to put on pressure).
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
November 09 2011 17:39 GMT
#142
I certainly hope this is just a fluke, more Protoss winning means more Protoss games in televised matches, and Protoss is an esport killer for us spectators. PvX are dreadful MU's, and I just can't stand watching the ball either winning nor losing.
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
Thurokiir
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
November 09 2011 17:39 GMT
#143
On November 10 2011 02:37 Nothingtosay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:28 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


What happened is those strats got nerfed to the ground. Warpgate research, blink research, void ray, pylon radius... An example of the rationale used was "it's too hard for T to hold against blink rush. +20 seconds"

Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

the way I see it was that the blink nerf was not only for pvt but also pvz. (didn't huk used blink rush against terran today in gsl?)
i actually thought the 4 gate nerf and pylon radius was to make pvp better. (and honestly, 90% of my zvp were 4 gates...I could see blizzard nerfing it just to make sure toss has more dimensions in their games)

the 1-1-1 did get nerfed through the barracks build time and immortal's range upgrade?
Not sure about MM through, I do feel that early trade, gateway is weaker but I don't really see protoss losing to terran by MM alone. Most often PvT loss is the ghost emp changing the entire engagement outcome.

and honestly, toss players had been improving a lot recently, even without needing to use those newly buff'd units like warp prism. I won't be surprised to see more toss players to get better results.

On November 10 2011 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Word.


D:
is this real life???

If you watch Jinro's stream you will hear and see that he is atleast as opinionated as idra if not more (I would say more) about protoss.


Terran complaining about protoss, lolwtf
Tahts halo dont worry
meadbert
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States681 Posts
November 09 2011 17:40 GMT
#144
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

I do not understand your hatred of Protoss considering it is your best matchup, while Zerg is your worst matchup.
Source:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/detailed-elo#tblt-3110-1-default-0-idra
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:41:48
November 09 2011 17:40 GMT
#145
On November 10 2011 02:39 SeaSwift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:28 ETisME wrote:
the 1-1-1 did get nerfed through the barracks build time and immortal's range upgrade?


While the Immortal range upgrade certainly helped a bit, the Barracks build time nerf was for FIVE ingame seconds. Delaying ANY push, especially one like the 1-1-1, but five seconds does barely anything.

The 1-1-1 has seen less dominance recently for a few reasons, in my eyes:

- The amount of abuse Puma got from the community for 1-1-1ing MC twice at IEM Cologne.
- A general desire from players to be seen as less "cheesy" and win straight up.
- Maps growing in size (TDA, Calm Before Storm etc)
- Protoss players expecting it so often and learning how to blind counter it (MC style: 1gate FE no matter what, add on 4gates and a Robo, make Obs then Immortals then either use the army to defend the 1-1-1 or to put on pressure).

The barracks nerfs were mainly due to 2-rax TvZ. The 1/1/1 itself has never been the reason for a nerf, and only resulted in the immortal range buff iirc.

On November 10 2011 02:40 meadbert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

I do not understand your hatred of Protoss considering it is your best matchup, while Zerg is your worst matchup.
Source:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/detailed-elo#tblt-3110-1-default-0-idra

He's hated toss since BW for whatever reason.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
Thurokiir
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
November 09 2011 17:41 GMT
#146
On November 10 2011 02:39 HowardRoark wrote:
I certainly hope this is just a fluke, more Protoss winning means more Protoss games in televised matches, and Protoss is an esport killer for us spectators. PvX are dreadful MU's, and I just can't stand watching the ball either winning nor losing.


Yea that's the sad part of the game atm, the colossus is such a boring but "good" unit that affects the race in all match ups incredibly adversely. I really cannot think of a single way that I LIKE to watch the colossus playout in a match up.

Garbage unit to play with, watch and think about. Get rid of it.
Tahts halo dont worry
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
November 09 2011 17:41 GMT
#147
I still don't like the way they play and nothing revolutionary has changed, so...

Then again, I guess it doesn't even matter anymore since I don't play P anymore, but I'd still watch any other matchups rather than Protoss matchups.
Sphen5117
Profile Joined September 2011
United States413 Posts
November 09 2011 17:41 GMT
#148
On November 10 2011 02:32 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:07 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.



People thought stalkers did too much DPS?

Stimmed marines with 3 attack do 15.6dps, stalkers with 3 attack do 9dps to light and 11.8 to armored without smart fire causing a lot of overkills, while stalkers cost 3.5x as much, 50 of those resources being gas.


Ive heard a lot of complaints about blink stalkers when well micro'd, but i think anyone who complains about the DPS output of stalkers has no idea what they are talking about at this point


This. Stalkers have some SHITTY dps. Not only that, but it scales terribly. Their strength is the blink, and anti-air capabilities. But they still are suuuuuper cost inefficient when compared to marines or even roaches.
Shewklad
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden482 Posts
November 09 2011 17:44 GMT
#149
The sad Zealot was a retarded thing from start. Always been, always will be.

Thanks for nerfing EMP and buffing protoss btw! :-D
Bomber || Thorzain || Startale >< No gods, no masters.
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:46:12
November 09 2011 17:45 GMT
#150
On November 10 2011 02:40 Daralii wrote:
The barracks nerfs were mainly due to 2-rax TvZ. The 1/1/1 itself has never been the reason for a nerf, and only resulted in the immortal range buff iirc.


That's exactly what I thought. I think it may also have nerfed 2rax in TvP slightly too, but the difference isn't significant.
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
November 09 2011 17:46 GMT
#151
I still don't like the fact that I'm forced to use archon toilet to beat broodlords
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
Brotocol
Profile Joined September 2011
243 Posts
November 09 2011 17:46 GMT
#152
On November 10 2011 02:34 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:32 Cyro wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:07 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.



People thought stalkers did too much DPS?

Stimmed marines with 3 attack do 15.6dps, stalkers with 3 attack do 9dps to light and 11.8 to armored without smart fire causing a lot of overkills, while stalkers cost 3.5x as much, 50 of those resources being gas.


Ive heard a lot of complaints about blink stalkers when well micro'd, but i think anyone who complains about the DPS output of stalkers has no idea what they are talking about at this point

It was in a blog post Sen did way back when. Dimaga apparently wrote an email to each member of the balance team addressing his issues with the game, one of them was stalker DPS. I could never take him seriously again after reading it.


And this, combined with the posts from Idra and Jinro in this thread, is why Protoss is in its current state.

Blizzard seems to be taking feedback from pros who are looking out for themselves, rather than truly wanting the game to become all that it can be.
"The Protoss ball of death is already too strong, so Protoss doesn't really need new units in HotS." - David Kim, Blizzcon 2011
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
November 09 2011 17:47 GMT
#153
As soon as Protoss wins GSL again.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
November 09 2011 17:47 GMT
#154
On November 10 2011 02:40 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:39 SeaSwift wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:28 ETisME wrote:
the 1-1-1 did get nerfed through the barracks build time and immortal's range upgrade?


While the Immortal range upgrade certainly helped a bit, the Barracks build time nerf was for FIVE ingame seconds. Delaying ANY push, especially one like the 1-1-1, but five seconds does barely anything.

The 1-1-1 has seen less dominance recently for a few reasons, in my eyes:

- The amount of abuse Puma got from the community for 1-1-1ing MC twice at IEM Cologne.
- A general desire from players to be seen as less "cheesy" and win straight up.
- Maps growing in size (TDA, Calm Before Storm etc)
- Protoss players expecting it so often and learning how to blind counter it (MC style: 1gate FE no matter what, add on 4gates and a Robo, make Obs then Immortals then either use the army to defend the 1-1-1 or to put on pressure).

The barracks nerfs were mainly due to 2-rax TvZ. The 1/1/1 itself has never been the reason for a nerf, and only resulted in the immortal range buff iirc.

Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:40 meadbert wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

I do not understand your hatred of Protoss considering it is your best matchup, while Zerg is your worst matchup.
Source:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/detailed-elo#tblt-3110-1-default-0-idra

He's hated toss since BW for whatever reason.

Every BW Terran hates protoss because they spend all their time setting up perfect army positioning, laying mines, defending dts, watching for reaver/ht drops, and then protoss seemingly 1 a 2a 3a's into their army while casting stasis screaming LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL and kills them.
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
Tatari
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1179 Posts
November 09 2011 17:48 GMT
#155
On November 10 2011 01:19 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


I thought it was zeeeeeeeee-lot


Artosis and a lot of other people pronounce it wrong every time.

It's zel-uht.
A fed jungler is no longer a jungler, but a terrorist.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#156
too early bro. the new patch just came out and toss still has hard time against T. well see.
robih
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria1086 Posts
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#157
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who are angry they arent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

fyp zerg
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#158
On November 10 2011 01:16 hahaimhenry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


they've only been above 50% in the GSL... a big reason because the korean terran players are just better than the koreans of the other races. it's true.

you heard it here first! RandomForumGuy confirmed: Korean Terrans>Korean NonTerrans
lol
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#159
protoss should make a strong showing this season, at least 1 toss in top 8 for sure, and probably one in top 4. after that it'll be up to practice and preparation over pretty much anything.

I called this before the season started. it was obvious that protoss did poorly due to their own players faults not because of the race, if you looked at the strategies and reactions impartially this became very obvious. so yeah i agree with IdrA. learn to analyze your races strategies and why they aren't working instead of complaining about balance.
Micket
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2163 Posts
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#160
On November 10 2011 02:40 meadbert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

I do not understand your hatred of Protoss considering it is your best matchup, while Zerg is your worst matchup.
Source:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/detailed-elo#tblt-3110-1-default-0-idra

ELO is shit.

Idra hates Protoss because he perceives them to be an A-move race, where they do nothing but make units and attack after maxing out. This stems from BW where Protoss was also the most versatile and cheesiest race, and Terran had to play a flawless early game to not die to a lot of all ins. Basically, he hates the race's playstyle and the fact that they could win games by doing nothing if the opponent didn't react correctly. Imbalanced? No. Abusive obnoxious piece of ****? Yes.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#161
I didn't know Orcs are interested in the fate of Protoss. (based on spelling ) I'd say it's a bit early. There aren't enough notable protosses overall, and not enough very good ones. Zerg and especially Terran have multiple superstars, whereas Protoss have only a couple. Even if a Protoss wins the GSL now, that won't change. Oz is very promising, a breath of fresh air for toss.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:50:38
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#162
I'm really happy protoss players arn't playing passively. For about the whole first year of the game protoss players would sit on their ass, and would eventually attack with their whole blob. And people figured out how to deal with that. Hence the sad zealot period. One example how times has changed is in pvt with around a 9 minute warp prism(just before reactor starports can kick in early on), you can pin the terran back and buy you TIME to say, get a twilight council or like a forge or start onwards to colossi. Huzzah for protoss innovention!
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
Nightshake
Profile Joined November 2010
France412 Posts
November 09 2011 17:49 GMT
#163
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Completely agree.
HuHEN
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom514 Posts
November 09 2011 17:50 GMT
#164
On November 10 2011 02:37 Assaulter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:35 HuHEN wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


What an absurd hypocrite you are.

this is all happening before patch 1.4.2 hit in Korea. this is why blizzard needs to leave the game ALONE. for a longer time. and dont go nerfing/buffing stuff so often. players need time to fix shit themselves. if they cant do it, then it might be imbalanced and needs a patch. NOT when platinum protosses cry on forums that terran is OP



I agree somewhat, the metagame normally does sort this stuff out. Nevertheless some people are of course going to whine because, tbh, terran was clearly OP, sometimes its hard to ignore that when it is so clear for so long. I also think that this surge of protoss success may well not be sustained for too long, what is happening now is other races dont yet know how to deal with the new stuff toss is throwing at them, when they do, the balance will normalize. The thing is "normalized" balance has always favoured terran since the game came out, Terran has never really had a slump and when the other races were supposedly doing really well, terran could still compete, so what im getting at is, I honestly belive terran is the strongest race, regardless of metagame. When there is a genuine imbalance (which has yet to be shown conclusively) then actual changes to the game are of course necessary, you cant just leave everything up to metagame.
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
November 09 2011 17:50 GMT
#165
On November 10 2011 02:46 Brotocol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:34 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:32 Cyro wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:07 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.



People thought stalkers did too much DPS?

Stimmed marines with 3 attack do 15.6dps, stalkers with 3 attack do 9dps to light and 11.8 to armored without smart fire causing a lot of overkills, while stalkers cost 3.5x as much, 50 of those resources being gas.


Ive heard a lot of complaints about blink stalkers when well micro'd, but i think anyone who complains about the DPS output of stalkers has no idea what they are talking about at this point

It was in a blog post Sen did way back when. Dimaga apparently wrote an email to each member of the balance team addressing his issues with the game, one of them was stalker DPS. I could never take him seriously again after reading it.


And this, combined with the posts from Idra and Jinro in this thread, is why Protoss is in its current state.

Blizzard seems to be taking feedback from pros who are looking out for themselves, rather than truly wanting the game to become all that it can be.

Just because Flux Vanes was conveniently removed right after CatZ told David Kim it was too strong doesn't mean they listen to the pros... >_>

On a serious note, it's been a problem with Blizz in recent years. A lot of the time they seem to forsake their original plans due to criticism from the community, which is unfortunate since most gaming communities have no damn idea what they want.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
SC2ShoWTimE
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany722 Posts
November 09 2011 17:50 GMT
#166
protoss players win a couple of games and suddenly the slump is over and every protoss is happy. thanks for this awesome thread.


On November 10 2011 02:39 HowardRoark wrote:
I certainly hope this is just a fluke, more Protoss winning means more Protoss games in televised matches, and Protoss is an esport killer for us spectators. PvX are dreadful MU's, and I just can't stand watching the ball either winning nor losing.


bullshit. it´s an esport killer to see one race dominating all the time and another one just doing terrible.

Progamer
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
November 09 2011 17:50 GMT
#167
On November 10 2011 02:34 Otolia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:28 QTIP. wrote:
Is this some sick joke? Everyone knows that all the Protoss players in the GSL are 10 times as good as their opponents. It's important to take into account the relative skill of the players before trying to discuss Balance. It's not PvT or PvZ -- it's fucking Sangho vs some Drone whore / EMP whore. We're talking about players that have been denied their right to win on a level playing field. Sangho and Huk being barely able to beat far inferior players says more about how their incredible skill than balance.

Drones aren't one the same level as EMP.

EMP is a flawless ability without drawback because you trade energy for energy or shield. That's free damage.

Drones are workers. Making them prevents you from building troops. It's a severe drawback.


Jesus christ homie, it's a fucking joke.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
RinconH
Profile Joined April 2010
United States512 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:51:50
November 09 2011 17:51 GMT
#168
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


LMAO from the king of zerg whine and refusal to do anything but corrupter/roach/hydra
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:58:28
November 09 2011 17:52 GMT
#169
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

And the "Most times that a single post was quoted in a thread" award is all yours.
Looking for a pro Protoss to weigh in here, already saw Jinro's +1

On November 10 2011 01:24 Brotocol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


That's how Scandinavians pronounce it, and technically, it's incorrect.

Zealot = "zellit"

Proof?

On November 10 2011 01:47 jamesr12 wrote:
I love how idra clearly still spends tons of time on TL as he ends up first page on this thread, but rarely posts these days and probably hasn't said anything intelligent in his last 100 posts.

The pros have access to a hidden sub-forum.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
November 09 2011 17:53 GMT
#170
Protoss in sc2 as a whole tends to spend waaaay to much time abusing any new strategy that gets them wins instead of working on developing a standard play and improving their strategies, it causes them to go in cycles where they are winning alot or losing alot depending on if their new FOTM strategy is new or been figured out.
-y0shi-
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany994 Posts
November 09 2011 17:54 GMT
#171
SO after 4 months suddenly everything is fine because huk pvpt and mc 2 base all ined through mlg and a few protoss won free games in the gsl? Did you guys SEE these games?!

Oz won his first game because his opponent didnt fly his orbital for like 5 minutes and his second game because he took his 3rd at 7 minute and his opponent didnt do anything about it. Do I need to say anything about the july games? etc etc.

Yes Im happy but why does anyone think that everything will now change because some protoss won some pretty easy games?
Deimos0
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Poland277 Posts
November 09 2011 17:55 GMT
#172
Well, unless there will be some consistency in P wins I don't see reason for calling out the Happy Zealot. When comes to arguing about best player everybody brings up consistensy issues with performance, but now suddenly only few succesful events makes everyone go 'waaaaaaagh'. Seriously - just wait and see if P manages to show some results in something like next 3 months or so.
protect me from what I want
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
November 09 2011 17:55 GMT
#173
People have very short memories when it comes to current racial "imbalance" trends. It takes a really long time for anything to really have time to settle and possibly draw some conclusions.

I think Protoss players are still innovating and have a little way to go. If there is much innovation and still no progress then there might be a problem. But for now I think the racial balance is pretty decent for such a complex game that is tough to balance.
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
November 09 2011 17:55 GMT
#174
On November 10 2011 02:41 Sphen5117 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:32 Cyro wrote:
On November 10 2011 02:07 Daralii wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:46 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:38 ETisME wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.

I really agree with this the most.
It isn't like Protoss didn't have their good winning ratio against zerg when they started 4 gate, then FFE into 6 gate timing etc.

I think they are just going through a rough time to find another good timing attacks that they could do.


Many (including myself) feel that the same logic is not being applied across the board. MM early game dominance against gateway units is apparently just fine and dandy, as well as 1-1-1. But not blink rush, or early void rays, or 4gate, those things just had to go.

That's the source of the so called whine. Most of the Protoss innovations got nerfed in what seems to be a harsh double standard.

The 1/1/1's probably a better example than M&M. The 1/1/1 has existed since beta, but has never been the reason for a terran nerf. It only fell out of favor because of things like blink rushes, but with that option(as well as many others) gone, we had nothing to fall back on and had to suffer while Blizzard got a patch ready.

For those arguing that zergs have been these brilliant strategists capable of making something from nothing, most of the actual innovators during the period of toss dominance in PvZ were called gimmicky scrubs and their styles were dismissed. It wasn't until Blizzard buffed the hell out of infestors that the average zerg stopped just going roach/hydra/corruptor and a-moving.

Whenever a toss won a game, the LR threads were filled with posts calling for a lynching, IdrA told several players to kill themselves for playing toss, Dimaga wrote to Blizzard complaining that stalkers did too much DPS, etc.



People thought stalkers did too much DPS?

Stimmed marines with 3 attack do 15.6dps, stalkers with 3 attack do 9dps to light and 11.8 to armored without smart fire causing a lot of overkills, while stalkers cost 3.5x as much, 50 of those resources being gas.


Ive heard a lot of complaints about blink stalkers when well micro'd, but i think anyone who complains about the DPS output of stalkers has no idea what they are talking about at this point


This. Stalkers have some SHITTY dps. Not only that, but it scales terribly. Their strength is the blink, and anti-air capabilities. But they still are suuuuuper cost inefficient when compared to marines or even roaches.


Its true that on a one by one basis Stalker dps is crappy for cost and scales badly.

But this ignores that Stalkers are a fairly high range unit, which combined with their high mobility/blink means that there will typically be a lot of them able to focus fire on the same target. When combined with CB giving Protoss a way to get ahead on upgrades consistently, and there are several Stalker upgrade timings in all matchups that are quite deadly. On balance, the "Stalker upgrades suck!" thing is wildly overstated. No, they aren't as amazing as stimmed marines, who might have less range than Stalkers but who take up so little space that they can all pack into a tight little ball. But compared to, say, Roaches, its actually pretty comparable--Roaches benefit more from upgrades, but even with speed on creep it is typically much harder for as many of them to focus fire a single target compared to Stalkers.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Brotocol
Profile Joined September 2011
243 Posts
November 09 2011 17:57 GMT
#175
On November 10 2011 02:52 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

And the "Most times that a single post was quoted in a thread" award is all yours.
Looking for a pro Protoss to weigh in here, already saw Jinro's +1

Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:24 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


That's how Scandinavians pronounce it, and technically, it's incorrect.

Zealot = "zellit"

Proof?


http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=zealot&submit=Submit
"The Protoss ball of death is already too strong, so Protoss doesn't really need new units in HotS." - David Kim, Blizzcon 2011
CaptainCrush
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States785 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 17:58:42
November 09 2011 17:57 GMT
#176
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Can't stand the guy but he has a great point here.... Now that toss has finally figured out how to do a little aggression combined with the new patch the free wins are going to stream in once more.
CCitrus
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada164 Posts
November 09 2011 17:58 GMT
#177
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Best part of this thread.

I think that this dark period of losses has resulted in two serious protoss gains. One, this patch. Two, more importantly, the evolution of protoss strategy by forced innovation.
Nothingtosay
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States875 Posts
November 09 2011 17:58 GMT
#178
On November 10 2011 02:53 PrinceXizor wrote:
Protoss in sc2 as a whole tends to spend waaaay to much time abusing any new strategy that gets them wins instead of working on developing a standard play and improving their strategies, it causes them to go in cycles where they are winning alot or losing alot depending on if their new FOTM strategy is new or been figured out.


So let me see this, half the community says
Protoss needs to innovate!

Half says
Protoss innovations are garbage they need to innovate better!

I guess you could say this true about PvZ to some extent but inreality its more like protoss players are trying everything under the sun versus zerg and something new comes and starts fighting off the zerg virus until zerg evovles into a new strain.

PvT isn't gimmicky at all protoss just doesn't do as well. Everyone remembers that before november during GSL Open 1 and 2 that protoss was doing just as badly as it is now right?
[QUOTE][B]On October 16 2011 13:00 Anihc wrote:[/B] No, you're the one who's wrong. Nothingtosay got it right.[/QUOTE]:3
SeaSwift
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Scotland4486 Posts
November 09 2011 17:59 GMT
#179
On November 10 2011 02:55 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Its true that on a one by one basis Stalker dps is crappy for cost and scales badly.

But this ignores that Stalkers are a fairly high range unit, which combined with their high mobility/blink means that there will typically be a lot of them able to focus fire on the same target. When combined with CB giving Protoss a way to get ahead on upgrades consistently, and there are several Stalker upgrade timings in all matchups that are quite deadly. On balance, the "Stalker upgrades suck!" thing is wildly overstated. No, they aren't as amazing as stimmed marines, who might have less range than Stalkers but who take up so little space that they can all pack into a tight little ball. But compared to, say, Roaches, its actually pretty comparable--Roaches benefit more from upgrades, but even with speed on creep it is typically much harder for as many of them to focus fire a single target compared to Stalkers.


You're listing all the other positives of Stalkers. None of them are DPS. The DPS of Stalkers is shit -> if Dimaga did complain about it, that's some BS. If Dimaga had complained about any of these, then yeah. Sure. But allegedly he didn't.
Resilient
Profile Joined June 2010
United Kingdom1431 Posts
November 09 2011 17:59 GMT
#180
This topic wouldn't even have gone past one page if people would stop quoting IdrA five times per page. It's hard to take these posts seriously considering he's been doing it since BW, and the statistics have almost always disagreed with the Protoss hate.


ooozer
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany231 Posts
November 09 2011 18:03 GMT
#181
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.
Rabid Wookie
Profile Joined August 2010
United States68 Posts
November 09 2011 18:03 GMT
#182
The Idra quote was classic Idra and have to love it, it really did brighten up my day! I don't understand why there's always thread's going on about how drastic the patch changes are going to make everything. Give it a few days we'll see what happens maybe it will make a substantial difference but meh the only real point to this topic was Idra then Beasty then Jinro.
SushilS
Profile Joined November 2010
2115 Posts
November 09 2011 18:04 GMT
#183
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOO
iceiceice: I’m going to make this short; I am the one true tinker player.
Xpace
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2209 Posts
November 09 2011 18:04 GMT
#184
I don't know. If it took all this:
+ Show Spoiler +
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2

Balance

PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250


TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5

...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy?

On November 08 2011 08:29 Plexa wrote:
I hope this makes me a happy zealot

One can only hope.
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
November 09 2011 18:06 GMT
#185
I reserve my judgment until we see another Protoss GSL champ, or at least 1 protoss in the round of 4.
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 18:09:59
November 09 2011 18:07 GMT
#186
On November 10 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote:
I don't know. If it took all this:
+ Show Spoiler +
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2

Balance

PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250


TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5

...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy?


All what?
The shield cost correction is minimal and will have no impact on the game and the EMP radius is not a nerf to just help out P.Its the most sane and intuitive thing to be done since the bunker salvage change lol.
People just practice and get better.If protoss starts winning again it will have less to do with the balance changes and more with the time they spent figuring out shit.
Cackle™
Ksquared
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1748 Posts
November 09 2011 18:09 GMT
#187
Shouldn't you wait to see if any of them can get into the Ro8?
eSports for life.
iLike413
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada100 Posts
November 09 2011 18:10 GMT
#188
On November 10 2011 01:13 windsupernova wrote:
I'll quote myself from the patch topic:

Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A

RO 32

19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)

Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.

IEM NY:

Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th

IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th

MLG Orlando:

P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th

P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)

So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.

Sad Zealot my ass.



So flawed, would have to take out the TvT and ZvZ results, also, if there was only 1 toss and that toss advanced, you'd probably go "100% herp derp". Really, that means nothing.

On topic; I think it was mentioned before and this still applies, Sad zealot is now the cautiously hopeful zealot.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
November 09 2011 18:10 GMT
#189
On November 10 2011 02:57 Brotocol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 02:52 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

And the "Most times that a single post was quoted in a thread" award is all yours.
Looking for a pro Protoss to weigh in here, already saw Jinro's +1

On November 10 2011 01:24 Brotocol wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot?


What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is.

It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way.


That's how Scandinavians pronounce it, and technically, it's incorrect.

Zealot = "zellit"

Proof?


http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=zealot&submit=Submit

Dude that's more 'Zell-ut'. There is most definitely no 'i'.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
devPLEASE
Profile Joined March 2011
Kenya605 Posts
November 09 2011 18:10 GMT
#190
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Why doesn't IdrA have a special account like incontrol or Tyler do? He's just as good if not better.
(ノ `Д´)ノ︵┻━┻
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
November 09 2011 18:11 GMT
#191
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.

You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play.

And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful.

4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal.

Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about.

Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out.

Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands.

Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.
I love crazymoving
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
November 09 2011 18:12 GMT
#192
On November 10 2011 03:10 devPLEASE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Why doesn't IdrA have a special account like incontrol or Tyler do? He's just as good if not better.

Because a probe killed his CC.
Cackle™
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
November 09 2011 18:12 GMT
#193
On November 10 2011 03:06 Kimaker wrote:
I reserve my judgment until we see another Protoss GSL champ, or at least 1 protoss in the round of 4.

How would a Toss in the ro4 mean anything? What if he played absolutely terrible in the ro8 and deserved to lose?

I love crazymoving
MethodSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States928 Posts
November 09 2011 18:12 GMT
#194
So toss started doing something other than 2 base timing attack and are now starting to win games. Well golly gosh I wonder why.
Xpace
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2209 Posts
November 09 2011 18:14 GMT
#195
On November 10 2011 03:07 TheKefka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote:
I don't know. If it took all this:
+ Show Spoiler +
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2

Balance

PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250


TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5

...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy?


All what?
The shield cost correction is minimal and will have no impact on the game and the EMP radius is not a nerf to just help out P.Its the most sane and intuitive thing to be done since the bunker salvage change lol.
People just practice and get better.If protoss starts winning again it will have less to do with the balance changes and more with the time they spent figuring out shit.


That, or 1.4.2 just did the most well-executed timing attack.
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
November 09 2011 18:14 GMT
#196
On November 10 2011 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.

Word.


:D

The Sad Zealot was just a bad idea, don't need to see a happy one either.
Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
-y0shi-
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany994 Posts
November 09 2011 18:15 GMT
#197
On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.

You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play.

And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful.

4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal.

Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about.

Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out.

Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands.

Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.


So you dismiss every Z/T unit as being bad and tell P to innovate? Protoss were using most of their units anyways...
Moralez
Profile Joined May 2011
Portugal1857 Posts
November 09 2011 18:16 GMT
#198
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


haha, <3 greg
Master League Zerg - EGIdrA - IMNesTea - EGMachine - EGIncoNtrol - IMLosirA - Destiny - MVPDRG -
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12391 Posts
November 09 2011 18:17 GMT
#199
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.

That is not true at all.
8 seconds stun doesn't deal enough damage before the zerg army get destroyed one-sided.
the muta base race play is only rising again because infestors style is not that viable anymore and this is the new strat to go against toss for now.
Mamaship is not the only possible way to kill mass mamalord/infestors, you get to see a normal deathball consists of immortal stalkers and colossus beating it very often.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
November 09 2011 18:17 GMT
#200
It depends what you mean by "happy zealot". If you're talking about the professional P players who compete and try to make a living out of starcraft, yeah sure they're doing better and the new patch will not only give them more options in late game, but also boost their confidence.

Now if by "happy zealot" you're talking about the whole brotoss community, including the fans, then I beg to differ, at least in my case. For spectators, winning is not everything and although seeing more protosses advancing in GSL is cool, I still find protoss play to be boring to watch, and thus I'm still a bit "sad". I can't blame the players for using mass stalkers/collossuses in every match-up on every map if that's the most efficient way to win games, but no matter what I have almost no enthousiasm when watching them play. It's getting better lately regarding multitasking and drop plays, but I'm still not convinced. Fuck, I hate to admit it but my favorite players in sc2 are T's and Z's, whereas in bw I have always been a deep and thick retarded P's fan.
Terran & Potato Salad.
sekritzzz
Profile Joined December 2010
1515 Posts
November 09 2011 18:17 GMT
#201
I find it kind of appalling how many people actually take idra's comment seriously or actually agree with them. Then again, most people agreed with him when he said Morrow was at best a gold zerg, or how huk is a terrible player, or how hatch first is the optimal build vs 2 rax and the list goes on..........


Then again, if in doubt trust idra over year-long statistics because protoss and terran has been OP and will be OP for years my friends.
iLike413
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada100 Posts
November 09 2011 18:18 GMT
#202
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:15 onPHYRE wrote:
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Haha, epic IdrA quote. I hope P does better but really I just want T nerfed so that for once they are at/around 50% w/l ratio since release, and not way above like they have been.


But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons:

1) They have been innovating the most.
2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off.


Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well.


I fell like it is the complete opposite, Terran have be MMM'ing into viking since beta.. and only recently have been adding ghosts. Can you tell me about their PvT innovations?

Meanwhile protoss have been going blink colo builds, zealot ht, fast pheonix harass, mothership carrier build, dt expo builds, really...
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
November 09 2011 18:18 GMT
#203
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


kind of have to agree, I think Protoss players in general have a hard time changing their playstyles.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44329 Posts
November 09 2011 18:18 GMT
#204
On November 10 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote:
I don't know. If it took all this:
+ Show Spoiler +
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2

Balance

PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250


TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5

...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy?

Show nested quote +
On November 08 2011 08:29 Plexa wrote:
I hope this makes me a happy zealot

One can only hope.


You do realize that the final result of *all the above* balance changes is that... Terran has to make two more ghosts now, and Protoss gets two extra gateway units after the fifteen minute mark?

That's completely it. In its entirety.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
November 09 2011 18:20 GMT
#205
On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.

You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play.

And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful.

4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal.

Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about.

Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out.

Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands.

Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.

Why Raven when you can mass scan? Science Vessel is viable in BW not because it is mobile detection, but because it has awesome spells.
When the Ravens spells are worth getting a Raven for, including starport + tech lab time, then it will be viable. This may not necessarily need any patching.
It's hard to innovate something new if there's no need to because other strategies work better. It's when those strategies don't work that we see new things.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
November 09 2011 18:20 GMT
#206
On November 10 2011 03:14 Xpace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 03:07 TheKefka wrote:
On November 10 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote:
I don't know. If it took all this:
+ Show Spoiler +
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2

Balance

PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300

The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175

The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250


TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5

...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy?


All what?
The shield cost correction is minimal and will have no impact on the game and the EMP radius is not a nerf to just help out P.Its the most sane and intuitive thing to be done since the bunker salvage change lol.
People just practice and get better.If protoss starts winning again it will have less to do with the balance changes and more with the time they spent figuring out shit.


That, or 1.4.2 just did the most well-executed timing attack.

No,it didn't.
Cackle™
WaSa
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden749 Posts
November 09 2011 18:21 GMT
#207
On November 10 2011 02:49 figq wrote:
I didn't know Orcs are interested in the fate of Protoss. (based on spelling ) I'd say it's a bit early. There aren't enough notable protosses overall, and not enough very good ones. Zerg and especially Terran have multiple superstars, whereas Protoss have only a couple. Even if a Protoss wins the GSL now, that won't change. Oz is very promising, a breath of fresh air for toss.


Yea, it has been said before and I can only agree. When a foreigner (Huk) is better than all koreans of the same particular race. Something is wrong!
Yea Huk is the best foreigner atm but he isn't on a level above other top foreigners (Idra, Stephano, Sen, Thorzain...and several others). Have this in mind and compare that to zerg; Nestea, DRG and Losira all are better than their foreign peers by quite a margin (not in ZvT, in which Idra is one of the best).

And then look at Terran. Do I even need to say anything? The gap between foreign and korean zergs and terrans are there (but not as large as 2+ months ago) but there is virtually no gap between the protoss.

Remember Anypro? One stargate build after another. Inca, one cheese after another. Old MC, one 4/5/6/7 gate after another. HongUN, one all-in after another. Genius, one funky build after another. San(Zenith), disappeared right after KA nerf
SangHo was the only one willing to play macro and not practice the next variant of stargate/gateway all-in. Too bad his decision making is isn't the best.

Now HuK (the only real macro protoss) is the 'bosstoss' so korean 'toss Attention!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
November 09 2011 18:22 GMT
#208
On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.

You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play.

And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful.

4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal.

Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about.

Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out.

Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands.

Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.


that's not true. Protoss builds have changed over time!
6gate has been developed after they found out that they can support more than 4gates if they go 2base. 7gate has been developed after they found out that they can get that additional base faster. You see? COMPLETLY DIFFERENT now
-y0shi-
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany994 Posts
November 09 2011 18:23 GMT
#209
On November 10 2011 03:12 MethodSC wrote:
So toss started doing something other than 2 base timing attack and are now starting to win games. Well golly gosh I wonder why.


They won mostly because their opponent played awful, seriously, did you guys even watch the games? How could one try to discuss balance after e.g. the oz games?! He won because his opponent played bad
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
November 09 2011 18:23 GMT
#210
On November 10 2011 03:22 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote:
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.

You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play.

And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful.

4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal.

Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about.

Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out.

Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands.

Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.


that's not true. Protoss builds have changed over time!
6gate has been developed after they found out that they can support more than 4gates if they go 2base. 7gate has been developed after they found out that they can get that additional base faster. You see? COMPLETLY DIFFERENT now

Actually,6 gate was developed because mutas very annoying the fuck out of people.
Cackle™
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
November 09 2011 18:24 GMT
#211
On November 10 2011 03:17 sekritzzz wrote:
I find it kind of appalling how many people actually take idra's comment seriously or actually agree with them. Then again, most people agreed with him when he said Morrow was at best a gold zerg, or how huk is a terrible player, or how hatch first is the optimal build vs 2 rax and the list goes on..........


Then again, if in doubt trust idra over year-long statistics because protoss and terran has been OP and will be OP for years my friends.


Not to nitpick, but hatch first kind of is the best build against 2rax. ^^
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 09 2011 18:25 GMT
#212
On November 10 2011 03:10 devPLEASE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.


Why doesn't IdrA have a special account like incontrol or Tyler do? He's just as good if not better.

your account status on TL has to do with your relationship with the staff and community not your skill as a player
RIP Aaliyah
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
November 09 2011 18:25 GMT
#213
On November 10 2011 03:21 WaSa wrote:
Now HuK (the only real macro protoss) is the 'bosstoss' so korean 'toss Attention!


What?

On November 10 2011 03:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote:
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.

You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play.

And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful.

4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal.

Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about.

Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out.

Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands.

Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.

Why Raven when you can mass scan? Science Vessel is viable in BW not because it is mobile detection, but because it has awesome spells.
When the Ravens spells are worth getting a Raven for, including starport + tech lab time, then it will be viable. This may not necessarily need any patching.
It's hard to innovate something new if there's no need to because other strategies work better. It's when those strategies don't work that we see new things.


Many koreans start to get ravens in tvt to get air control and use it against marauders too, it looks like it is getting a role.
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
November 09 2011 18:26 GMT
#214
On November 10 2011 03:17 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
It depends what you mean by "happy zealot". If you're talking about the professional P players who compete and try to make a living out of starcraft, yeah sure they're doing better and the new patch will not only give them more options in late game, but also boost their confidence.

Now if by "happy zealot" you're talking about the whole brotoss community, including the fans, then I beg to differ, at least in my case. For spectators, winning is not everything and although seeing more protosses advancing in GSL is cool, I still find protoss play to be boring to watch, and thus I'm still a bit "sad". I can't blame the players for using mass stalkers/collossuses in every match-up on every map if that's the most efficient way to win games, but no matter what I have almost no enthousiasm when watching them play. It's getting better lately regarding multitasking and drop plays, but I'm still not convinced. Fuck, I hate to admit it but my favorite players in sc2 are T's and Z's, whereas in bw I have always been a deep and thick retarded P's fan.


Now that's something i agree with!

Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 09 2011 18:28 GMT
#215
On November 10 2011 03:10 iLike413 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 01:13 windsupernova wrote:
I'll quote myself from the patch topic:

On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A

RO 32

19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)

Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.

IEM NY:

Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th

IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th

MLG Orlando:

P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th

P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)

So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.

Sad Zealot my ass.



So flawed, would have to take out the TvT and ZvZ results, also, if there was only 1 toss and that toss advanced, you'd probably go "100% herp derp". Really, that means nothing.

On topic; I think it was mentioned before and this still applies, Sad zealot is now the cautiously hopeful zealot.


It was not meant to be a scientific analysis man, read the post. It was just to show that stuff is not as bad as people seem to think. But whatever, why do I even bother? People come here convinced that their race has 0% chance to win because OP/UP.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
November 09 2011 18:29 GMT
#216
We have three balance threads on the first two pages. We don't need a fourth, especially one whose title spoils GSL results.
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
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