EPTThen again, if in doubt trust idra over year-long statistics because protoss and terran has been OP and will be OP for years my friends.
Is it time for a Happy Zelot? - Page 11
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
Then again, if in doubt trust idra over year-long statistics because protoss and terran has been OP and will be OP for years my friends. | ||
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iLike413
Canada100 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:26 CluEleSs_UK wrote: But Terran have been winning imo for 2 reasons: 1) They have been innovating the most. 2) They have the most high level players to draw inspiration off. Protoss have been doing the exact same builds since beta, and every time zerg innovates they do really well. I fell like it is the complete opposite, Terran have be MMM'ing into viking since beta.. and only recently have been adding ghosts. Can you tell me about their PvT innovations? Meanwhile protoss have been going blink colo builds, zealot ht, fast pheonix harass, mothership carrier build, dt expo builds, really... | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote: time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses. kind of have to agree, I think Protoss players in general have a hard time changing their playstyles. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45164 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote: I don't know. If it took all this: + Show Spoiler + StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2 Balance PROTOSS Forge The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200 The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300 The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400 The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175 The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250 The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175 The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250 TERRAN Ghost EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5 ...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy? One can only hope. You do realize that the final result of *all the above* balance changes is that... Terran has to make two more ghosts now, and Protoss gets two extra gateway units after the fifteen minute mark? That's completely it. In its entirety. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote: You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play. And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful. 4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal. Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about. Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out. Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands. Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating. Why Raven when you can mass scan? Science Vessel is viable in BW not because it is mobile detection, but because it has awesome spells. When the Ravens spells are worth getting a Raven for, including starport + tech lab time, then it will be viable. This may not necessarily need any patching. It's hard to innovate something new if there's no need to because other strategies work better. It's when those strategies don't work that we see new things. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:14 Xpace wrote: That, or 1.4.2 just did the most well-executed timing attack. No,it didn't. | ||
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WaSa
Sweden749 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:49 figq wrote: I didn't know Orcs are interested in the fate of Protoss. (based on spelling  ) I'd say it's a bit early. There aren't enough notable protosses overall, and not enough very good ones. Zerg and especially Terran have multiple superstars, whereas Protoss have only a couple. Even if a Protoss wins the GSL now, that won't change. Oz is very promising, a breath of fresh air for toss.Yea, it has been said before and I can only agree. When a foreigner (Huk) is better than all koreans of the same particular race. Something is wrong! Yea Huk is the best foreigner atm but he isn't on a level above other top foreigners (Idra, Stephano, Sen, Thorzain...and several others). Have this in mind and compare that to zerg; Nestea, DRG and Losira all are better than their foreign peers by quite a margin (not in ZvT, in which Idra is one of the best). And then look at Terran. Do I even need to say anything? The gap between foreign and korean zergs and terrans are there (but not as large as 2+ months ago) but there is virtually no gap between the protoss. Remember Anypro? One stargate build after another. Inca, one cheese after another. Old MC, one 4/5/6/7 gate after another. HongUN, one all-in after another. Genius, one funky build after another. San(Zenith), disappeared right after KA nerf SangHo was the only one willing to play macro and not practice the next variant of stargate/gateway all-in. Too bad his decision making is isn't the best. Now HuK (the only real macro protoss) is the 'bosstoss' so korean 'toss Attention!  | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote: You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play. And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful. 4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal. Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about. Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out. Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands. Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating. that's not true. Protoss builds have changed over time! 6gate has been developed after they found out that they can support more than 4gates if they go 2base. 7gate has been developed after they found out that they can get that additional base faster. You see? COMPLETLY DIFFERENT now | ||
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-y0shi-
Germany994 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:12 MethodSC wrote: So toss started doing something other than 2 base timing attack and are now starting to win games. Well golly gosh I wonder why. They won mostly because their opponent played awful, seriously, did you guys even watch the games? How could one try to discuss balance after e.g. the oz games?! He won because his opponent played bad | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:22 Big J wrote: that's not true. Protoss builds have changed over time! 6gate has been developed after they found out that they can support more than 4gates if they go 2base. 7gate has been developed after they found out that they can get that additional base faster. You see? COMPLETLY DIFFERENT now Actually,6 gate was developed because mutas very annoying the fuck out of people. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:17 sekritzzz wrote: I find it kind of appalling how many people actually take idra's comment seriously or actually agree with them. Then again, most people agreed with him when he said Morrow was at best a gold zerg, or how huk is a terrible player, or how hatch first is the optimal build vs 2 rax and the list goes on.......... Then again, if in doubt trust idra over year-long statistics because protoss and terran has been OP and will be OP for years my friends. Not to nitpick, but hatch first kind of is the best build against 2rax. ^^ | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:10 devPLEASE wrote: Why doesn't IdrA have a special account like incontrol or Tyler do? He's just as good if not better. your account status on TL has to do with your relationship with the staff and community not your skill as a player | ||
pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:21 WaSa wrote: Now HuK (the only real macro protoss) is the 'bosstoss' so korean 'toss Attention! What? On November 10 2011 03:20 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Why Raven when you can mass scan? Science Vessel is viable in BW not because it is mobile detection, but because it has awesome spells. When the Ravens spells are worth getting a Raven for, including starport + tech lab time, then it will be viable. This may not necessarily need any patching. It's hard to innovate something new if there's no need to because other strategies work better. It's when those strategies don't work that we see new things. Many koreans start to get ravens in tvt to get air control and use it against marauders too, it looks like it is getting a role. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:17 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: It depends what you mean by "happy zealot". If you're talking about the professional P players who compete and try to make a living out of starcraft, yeah sure they're doing better and the new patch will not only give them more options in late game, but also boost their confidence. Now if by "happy zealot" you're talking about the whole brotoss community, including the fans, then I beg to differ, at least in my case. For spectators, winning is not everything and although seeing more protosses advancing in GSL is cool, I still find protoss play to be boring to watch, and thus I'm still a bit "sad". I can't blame the players for using mass stalkers/collossuses in every match-up on every map if that's the most efficient way to win games, but no matter what I have almost no enthousiasm when watching them play. It's getting better lately regarding multitasking and drop plays, but I'm still not convinced. Fuck, I hate to admit it but my favorite players in sc2 are T's and Z's, whereas in bw I have always been a deep and thick retarded P's fan. Now that's something i agree with! | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:10 iLike413 wrote: So flawed, would have to take out the TvT and ZvZ results, also, if there was only 1 toss and that toss advanced, you'd probably go "100% herp derp". Really, that means nothing. On topic; I think it was mentioned before and this still applies, Sad zealot is now the cautiously hopeful zealot. It was not meant to be a scientific analysis man, read the post. It was just to show that stuff is not as bad as people seem to think. But whatever, why do I even bother? People come here convinced that their race has 0% chance to win because OP/UP. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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