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I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.
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The Idra quote was classic Idra and have to love it, it really did brighten up my day! I don't understand why there's always thread's going on about how drastic the patch changes are going to make everything. Give it a few days we'll see what happens maybe it will make a substantial difference but meh the only real point to this topic was Idra then Beasty then Jinro.
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On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOO
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I don't know. If it took all this:
+ Show Spoiler +StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2
Balance
PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250
TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5
...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy?
On November 08 2011 08:29 Plexa wrote:
I hope this makes me a happy zealot
One can only hope.
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I reserve my judgment until we see another Protoss GSL champ, or at least 1 protoss in the round of 4.
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On November 10 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote:I don't know. If it took all this: + Show Spoiler +StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2
Balance
PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250
TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5 ...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy?
All what?
The shield cost correction is minimal and will have no impact on the game and the EMP radius is not a nerf to just help out P.Its the most sane and intuitive thing to be done since the bunker salvage change lol.
People just practice and get better.If protoss starts winning again it will have less to do with the balance changes and more with the time they spent figuring out shit.
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Shouldn't you wait to see if any of them can get into the Ro8?
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On November 10 2011 01:13 windsupernova wrote:I'll quote myself from the patch topic: Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 00:59 windsupernova wrote:
Seriously shut up with the crying, even in Code S this season due to the new format a lot of Terrans have dropped out to Code A
RO 32
19 T-> 8 advance(Around 42%)
5 P ->5 advance (100%)
8 Zerg -> 3 advance (37.5%)
Hell one can even argue more that Zerg is now doing badly, but you know? I won't because I actually watched the freaking games.And with Code A full of Z and P I can see a lot of new Z and P getting to Code S next season.
IEM NY:
Zerg in 1st and 2nd and 3rd, P at 4th
IEM Guangzhou
Zerg in 1st
P in 2nd
T in 3rd
P at 4th
MLG Orlando:
P in 1st and 2nd place
T in 3rd
Z in 4th
P and Z are obviously winning stuff at a competitive level. Z and P have been doing fine in Code S too, and in Code A so far all the races are pretty evenly distributed(17 P 16 T 15 Z)
So stop acting as if it is impossible to win as either P or Z because its not. Stop blaming balance because of your ladder FAILS.Hell, even winrates from TLPD are around 50%. Stop acting as if the game was terribly imbalanced when all evidence shows that its not even that bad.
Sad Zealot my ass.
So flawed, would have to take out the TvT and ZvZ results, also, if there was only 1 toss and that toss advanced, you'd probably go "100% herp derp". Really, that means nothing.
On topic; I think it was mentioned before and this still applies, Sad zealot is now the cautiously hopeful zealot.
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On November 10 2011 02:57 Brotocol wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:52 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses. And the "Most times that a single post was quoted in a thread" award is all yours. Looking for a pro Protoss to weigh in here, already saw Jinro's +1 On November 10 2011 01:24 Brotocol wrote:On November 10 2011 01:18 chokke wrote:On November 10 2011 01:12 hippocritical wrote:On November 10 2011 01:10 TideRoll wrote:
I'm confused, what's a Zelot? What I'd imagine to be the phonetic American pronunciation of Zealot is. It's pronounced sea-lot though, so wrong either way. That's how Scandinavians pronounce it, and technically, it's incorrect. Zealot = "zellit" Proof? http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=zealot&submit=Submit
Dude that's more 'Zell-ut'. There is most definitely no 'i'.
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On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.
Why doesn't IdrA have a special account like incontrol or Tyler do? He's just as good if not better.
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On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.
You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play.
And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful.
4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal.
Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about.
Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out.
Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands.
Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.
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On November 10 2011 03:10 devPLEASE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses. Why doesn't IdrA have a special account like incontrol or Tyler do? He's just as good if not better.
Because a probe killed his CC.
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On November 10 2011 03:06 Kimaker wrote:
I reserve my judgment until we see another Protoss GSL champ, or at least 1 protoss in the round of 4.
How would a Toss in the ro4 mean anything? What if he played absolutely terrible in the ro8 and deserved to lose?
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So toss started doing something other than 2 base timing attack and are now starting to win games. Well golly gosh I wonder why.
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On November 10 2011 03:07 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:04 Xpace wrote:I don't know. If it took all this: + Show Spoiler +StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - Patch 1.4.2
Balance
PROTOSS
Forge
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 1 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 200/200
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 2 has been decreased to 225/225, down from 300/300
The cost of Upgrade Shields Level 3 has been decreased to 300/300, down from 400/400
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Weapons Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 2 has been decreased to 150/150, down from 175/175
The cost of Upgrade Ground Armor Level 3 has been decreased to 200/200, down from 250/250
TERRAN
Ghost
EMP radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5 ...to make your race show signs of moving forward, will you be happy? All what? The shield cost correction is minimal and will have no impact on the game and the EMP radius is not a nerf to just help out P.Its the most sane and intuitive thing to be done since the bunker salvage change lol. People just practice and get better.If protoss starts winning again it will have less to do with the balance changes and more with the time they spent figuring out shit.
That, or 1.4.2 just did the most well-executed timing attack.
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On November 10 2011 02:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses. Word.
:D
The Sad Zealot was just a bad idea, don't need to see a happy one either.
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On November 10 2011 03:11 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
I don't get it why people are bitching about toss players not bring diversity into their games. Protoss always used every unit they had, except for Carriers and Momaship, though timings have been practised and rejected due to ineffectivity.
T always had an edge over toss, even before the mass usuage of ghost/emp. MMMV beat Gateway Colossi (Yeah protoss didn't use HT well with KA back then. KA nowadays would be freaking imba). After Archon got more vialable and toss opted for archive tech, ghost started their mass rape.
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
Z's and T's keep pretending that Toss does not play to it's fullest, but does terran and zerg do so? I still don't see many ravens in TvZ, or sensor towers (permanent knowledge about what's going on sux eh?), nydus is still underused aswell as ultras.
What's left for toss? Carriers are expensive and usually immediatley counterd by terran and zerg race design, mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins. You don't see much nydus because you have to be flat out not paying attention to let nyduses go up. That doesn't happen often at top level game play. And Ultras suck, they are not only too big, their AI is flat out awful. 4 sec fungal with more damage >>> 8 second fungal. Lots of T's use sensor towers, I don't know what you're talking about. Ravens? u srs? I've seen plenty of Terrans trying to use Ravens, it never works out. Toss has had WPs. Only White Ra was using them though. Sure, they were weak as hell, but he still made them effective. Protoss has been doing the same builds since beta and expecting them to still work. They still FFE FULLY KNOWING that Zerg will get 3 base and lol at you, then complain about it after, instead of figuring out 1 gate expands. Toss players in the GSL are flat out better than the Terrans their beating, and that's because they are innovating.
So you dismiss every Z/T unit as being bad and tell P to innovate? Protoss were using most of their units anyways...
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On November 10 2011 01:11 IdrA wrote:
time for a bunch of goddam pussies who were angry they werent getting complete freewins anymore to pull their heads out of their asses.
haha, <3 greg
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12696 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:03 ooozer wrote:
The PvZ death ball imbalance was not a imbalance at all. Roach/Hydra/Ling/Corrupter simply sux against Colossi/Stalker/Sentry/VRay. Due to underusage of infestor, FG got buffed, though FG was already great, not dmg-wise but 8 sec stun which basically ownes anything with Ultra or BLord.Now even deathball fights slightly favor infestor heavy zerg balls, not to mention the mass muta-base-race-play.
mothership can be used as a mid to lategame harass unit, or the only possible way to kill mass BLord/Infestor (Archontoilet).
the truth is, protoss do not profit from long term macro games, but from gimmicky x-base timing all-ins.
That is not true at all.
8 seconds stun doesn't deal enough damage before the zerg army get destroyed one-sided.
the muta base race play is only rising again because infestors style is not that viable anymore and this is the new strat to go against toss for now.
Mamaship is not the only possible way to kill mass mamalord/infestors, you get to see a normal deathball consists of immortal stalkers and colossus beating it very often.
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It depends what you mean by "happy zealot". If you're talking about the professional P players who compete and try to make a living out of starcraft, yeah sure they're doing better and the new patch will not only give them more options in late game, but also boost their confidence.
Now if by "happy zealot" you're talking about the whole brotoss community, including the fans, then I beg to differ, at least in my case. For spectators, winning is not everything and although seeing more protosses advancing in GSL is cool, I still find protoss play to be boring to watch, and thus I'm still a bit "sad". I can't blame the players for using mass stalkers/collossuses in every match-up on every map if that's the most efficient way to win games, but no matter what I have almost no enthousiasm when watching them play. It's getting better lately regarding multitasking and drop plays, but I'm still not convinced. Fuck, I hate to admit it but my favorite players in sc2 are T's and Z's, whereas in bw I have always been a deep and thick retarded P's fan.
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EPT
