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Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives?
IEM spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +Only a few hours ago IdrA won IEM, and in that time there has been so much de-legitimising of his series against Puma. People don't seem to recognise just how phenomenaly he played and think that Puma cannot be outplayed and every mistake he made was part of his plan to throw the series. Noticeably on the 'best foreigner poll' thread and that hilarious conspiracy theory thread that the now banned Spasticated made.
I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
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Spoiler or have a mod close this...way too soon.
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:
EG fighting! Fanboy of: Idra
I think he would be a lot better of a player if he didn't prematurely leave games so often. Perhaps that is more of a personality issue.
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IdrA hate? What are you talking about, 85% people here go "zomg idra teh best foreigner" 24/7.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
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His fanclub has only 1200pages, why does noone like him?
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On October 04 2011 21:24 andycz wrote:
IdrA hate? What are you talking about, 85% people here are sucking his cock 24/7.
Oh heaps of people are fans of him I'm not denying that, but there has been a very sudden outburst of hatred towards him in the last few days that I have noticed, hence this post
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He's a bad mannered egomaniac and you're surprised people don't like him?
Now that he has some results (I'm not counting IPL season 1 as "results") maybe he can afford a bit more to act the way he does.
However, a win is a win, and people shouldn't be taking away from that. Congrats to Idra.
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I don't think people think IdrA is a bad player. He's clearly excellent. Fans' problem with IdrA is how bad mannered he is.
He says things that are disrespectful to other players and he is a bad winner AND a bad loser.
It's not a wonder that people don't like that. In almost any competition respect for the other players is the norm. Even in sports like boxing or sprinting where there is all sorts of ridiculous posturing before the event, afterwards the players are respectful and congratulate each other. IdrA's inability to gg or shake hands when an inferior player upsets him is just sad.
And making excuses for most losses is just annoying.
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Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/
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Sorry but this thread is pretty horrible, should we discuss the idra hate? Can you show some few examples of it or something? I haven't really noticed the last couple days....
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haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
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there's good reason for people not to like him. it's actually a big part of his fame or infamy depending on how you view him.
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A player who is incredibly negative towards others is bound to get negativity back. He regularly trash talks, bad manners and otherwise insults other players. These players have fans themselves and you basically end up with fans of other players getting sick and tired of him undermining their favorite player's skill level.
He gets a ton of hate because he dishes a ton out, it's nothing surprising.
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On October 04 2011 21:28 darkscream wrote:
haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
If you're an incontrol fan / Destiny hater I'm going to laugh my ass off
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To be honest, it's more about the Foreigner/Korea conflict rather than Idra. A lot of ppl like to de-legitimise any match where a korean beats a foreigner, finding any excuse possible. On the flip side, other people think over-legitimise the win, if tht makes sense. Also, Idra has a ton of stupid fanboys, and a ton of stupid haters.
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On October 04 2011 21:25 Malinor wrote:
His fanclub has only 1200pages, why does noone like him?
Half of those 1200 pages are filled with flaming him and other random stuff.
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Idra polarizes. His haters are annoying, but his mindless fanboys are equally so. I mean for heaven's sake, someone in the LR thread said he was the Michael Jordan of Sc2.
Do you really need to hear reasons as to why people might dislike Idra? Anyone who rages and insults opponents as much as he does is going to have people who dislike him. Whether this stuff bothers you is for you to decide, but it's not all that difficult to fathomwhere the hate comes from.
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lets face it...everybody gets pissed off when they lose to players that are clearly worse. Idra is a very talented player, mechanics ftw
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I'm just sick of the special treatment and attention this guy gets.
He won a tournament, good for him, now stop making pointless threads about it.
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I didn't post anything anti-IdrA but personally I don't root for him because his play is boring to me, and he uses too much of his mechanical ability into passive play. Also, he seems to be a hard player to support because he is so self-destructive and psychologically quite weak when compared to other highly competitive players. Notably, as well, he is an EG player and I detest EG's values or lack thereof, although DeMusliM is such a nice guy and exciting player that I can't help but be a fanboy :p
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Idra is a fantastic, amazing Zerg player.
He however, is a bad sportsman, is abrasive and completely incapable of admitting his own flaws.
Despite all that, he remains one of the most entertaining SC2 personalities and generates an amazing amount of buzz both in and out of the game.
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out of all the progamers IdrA has (by far) the most fans, including many activists, who made it their personal assignment to attack everything thats anit-IdrA. #dontfightotherpeoplesbattles please. Personally I don`t see much hate towards IdrA, but arguments that disagree when it is stated he is the best foreigner/player etc. That how things are kept in balance.
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IEM spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +Ofcourse Puma threw away the series! Who wouldn't want to see slasher bald!
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives? IEM spoiler: + Show Spoiler +Only a few hours ago IdrA won IEM, and in that time there has been so much de-legitimising of his series against Puma. People don't seem to recognise just how phenomenaly he played and think that Puma cannot be outplayed and every mistake he made was part of his plan to throw the series. Noticeably on the 'best foreigner poll' thread and that hilarious conspiracy theory thread that the now banned Spasticated made. I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
There are very few people who think that IdrA is a bad player. The people either love or hate his personality and then the flaming comes through in an attack on his play as well as his personality. This post seems useless since everyone already knows why people flame him and why people defend him.
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Hey what's up,
I feel the same exact way as you do.. However some of his flames feel just too much for me.. Even though he doesnt fall down in my heart. I often ask my-self , was it worth it idra ? (example, Minigun being called out "You didn't deserve to win" followed-up by "you're a fucker") and in that particular game idra was doing bad things with his army (like really bad running throughout storm with all of his zerglings and stuff) Even though i am a protoss player, i prefer idra's stream over the others because he is just SO good. I would say it is just that people don't like to evaluate player who is bad mannered. Incontrol once said "Well, Idra wanna be bad mannered and when you wanna be bad mannered you gotta be better than the others, and he is"
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I'm looking at the last page of the idra fanclub, it's 20 people congratulating IdrA for his win, I don't think that is the definition of hate.
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i know right, everyone hates that guy! so bloody annoying, and he is such a loner! he only has the most visited fan club in TL history, gets 20,000 viewers when he streams and is an icon for the sport. In fact, he is the one that got me into starcraft when i watched his protip videos. Idra is a legend, and because a few people spam hate chat you think the whole community shares this opinion?
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people hate IdrA more because his fanbase are probably the most annoying people on TL. when he wins they say hes the best foreigner, even though he's clearly not and hasnt been since GSL 1, when he loses they say everything and their mothers is imbalanced.
IdrA is a player with like 3 championship wins in SC2, and yet hes better then people with a lot more success? sorry, no.
best foreigner goes to HuK, he's still in Code S. Arguably though, I think ThorZain is the best, hes absolutely amazing and miles ahead of IdrA
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On October 04 2011 21:26 HystericaLaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:24 andycz wrote:
IdrA hate? What are you talking about, 85% people here are sucking his cock 24/7.
Oh heaps of people are fans of him I'm not denying that, but there has been a very sudden outburst of hatred towards him in the last few days that I have noticed, hence this post
crap you quoted me before i edited the potentially bannable phrase out.. lol
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I just don't like his attitude towards the game or the players, no ammount of wins will make me chage my mind about it.But I do recognize he is a great player.
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On October 04 2011 21:30 ePdeLay wrote:
lets face it...everybody gets pissed off when they lose to players that are clearly worse. Idra is a very talented player, mechanics ftw
Yeah, but a lot of people have the class to not out and insult the player and rag on their skills for beating them. It's not about, "being honest and straight forward" or whatever else people like to use when referring to IdrA, it's about not being a complete asshole.
In a recent vlog, Grubby lost to someone who he said he should have been able to beat and said he was quite upset about it, not once did it seem like he was delegitimizing the other player's effort or saying he was bad. I'm not saying everyone needs to be that ultra-mannered, but if he's going to delegitimize other player's wins and call them bad, are people really wondering why others do the same to him?
Why don't I go and make another thread regarding IdrA's hatred of just about every other person that beats him and how he delegitimizes their wins. It's fucking stupid that anyone can be surprised that he gets a ton of shit, he dishes a massive amount out.
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Does it really matter, he is already aware of it. He has some of the most loyal fans of any player, and because he is popular, the haters are quick to jump on-board with their say. They are quick to judge his play, his current form and the way he plays, even if is quick to leave games they whine and bitch regardless. It is clear he is rediscovering his best play due to recent results, that is exciting to me. The haters will still judge him though, even if he is the best player in the world, that is just how he rolls.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
If you go around behaving like IdrA does, you're bound to make some haters, as well as loyal fans. Then it goes like this:
A few extreme haters start ragging on him.
Which triggers the extreme fanboys to shield him and rag on the haters.
Which in turn triggers less extreme haters to join in.
Then of course the standard fanboys join the fray.
......etc
You see how this works.
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He has dissed much of the community in the past. As such there is a lot of hatred going his way. Regardless he still has a lot of fans. Not sure what your issue is here.
Like a user said before, he polarizes. But it's beyond me that someone is surprised that people hate or dislike IdrA.
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On October 04 2011 21:28 darkscream wrote:
haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
you may not realize this, but some people dont need to put on a "fake 'tv friendly' personality", they actually ARE friendly.
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On October 04 2011 21:26 HystericaLaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:24 andycz wrote:
IdrA hate? What are you talking about, 85% people here are sucking his cock 24/7.
Oh heaps of people are fans of him I'm not denying that, but there has been a very sudden outburst of hatred towards him in the last few days that I have noticed, hence this post
Oh shit people are hating on someone on the internetz, let's quickly write a thread about it.
I just headbutted the shit out of my palm
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He don't mind being "hated" AFAIK. I also think it's just pointless bashing and not "hate".
Some of his BM from his stream for instance are just for entertainment really. He can't seriously believe Minigun doesn't deserve wins when he have lost so many series to him :D
But still it's very annoying every time he lose and the idra bashers goes on gloat mode...
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So you find one conspiracy theorist moron and another poll highlighting that people don't think he should be considered one of the best foreigners? I think most of the people in the upper poll are better than IdrA, particularly when that poll was made, based on results. It's nothing mind blowing.
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On October 04 2011 21:26 svefnleysi wrote:
He's a bad mannered egomaniac and you're surprised people don't like him?
Now that he has some results (I'm not counting IPL season 1 as "results") maybe he can afford a bit more to act the way he does.
However, a win is a win, and people shouldn't be taking away from that. Congrats to Idra.
He won MLG DC in 2010, two showmatches (against HuK and QXC respectively) and USA IeSF qualifier in addition to the first IPL. Most of the respect people have for him comes from him being one of the few foreigners to go to Korea and join a pro-team in BW.
He wasn't particularly successful in BW, staying on CJ's B-team for the longest time if I can recall, but he got further than 90% of all "good" foreigners ever did.
So there is plenty of reason to respect IdrA as a player, I didn't even mention his good GSL finish. He hasn't been performing very well recently, so people try to come up with excuses for him winning IEM now and just hate on him more, as far as I understand anyway.
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WoW he won a tournament against more bad players. GZ! I bet the fanboys would open threads like that even if he won CraftCup #594 for 10$
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/
So you dont like people who prefers to try to win becasue they have better mechanics, instead of relying on coinflips? Stupid opinion imo.
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I don't hate Idra. I think of him like a little brother... a lil brother i would take out back and put a whoopin on till he learned some respect for the opposition. It's the reason why i have respect for Spanishiwa. Respectful 85% of the time. Everyone slips.
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this tournament was dumb, there were no good terrans (puma getting worse) and the winner almost didn't make it out of his group
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On October 04 2011 21:38 Mordiford wrote:So you find one conspiracy theorist moron and another poll highlighting that people don't think he should be considered one of the best foreigners? I think most of the people in the upper poll are better than IdrA, particularly when that poll was made, based on results. It's nothing mind blowing.
Theres obviously more... I just quickly quoted you with a couple of examples.
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I love Idra, he is a sick nerd baller. I see the people that dont like him as stuck up bible bashing maniacs.
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I don't have a problem with him, I have a problem with his fans and the way the community reacts to him...he says 'fuck' or 'bad' and 20k people jizz and run straight to Reddit. He leaves a game too early and that becomes the main event of the tournament and not the other players competing...to be honest I personally think (tinfoil hat style) that IdrA is purely a character designed to manipulate the gullible inflated ego hivemind that this community has, but that's pretty conspiracy-ish.
I'm a huge fan of EG and when IdrA isn't making ludicrous balance claims, he seems like a great guy from Inside the Game and other stuff. I just don't like the consequences of his actions in the community.
EDIT: To sum my point up, "most of my fans are pretty retarded" - Greg "IdrA" Fields
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives? IEM spoiler: + Show Spoiler +Only a few hours ago IdrA won IEM, and in that time there has been so much de-legitimising of his series against Puma. People don't seem to recognise just how phenomenaly he played and think that Puma cannot be outplayed and every mistake he made was part of his plan to throw the series. Noticeably on the 'best foreigner poll' thread and that hilarious conspiracy theory thread that the now banned Spasticated made. I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
Umm, i think most people are happy to see IdrA win and you are taking some trolls way too seriously.....
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Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate.
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idra is a great player i dont think anyone non-biased will disagree with that statement
the reason he gets so much hate is because he is so emotionally and yet so good
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I don't think idra is an egomaniac in any way. He rages when he loses and is bm, but there isn't too much else. Other than that he is just honest about his opinions of his abilities and those of others. This includes assessments of weakness in himself, as well as in strength. He said very clearly that he didn't expect to beat puma because puma is really good. I find idra to be very reasonable at all times except after losing a game.
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On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate.
I don't know what you heard, exactly. This is a catastrophically idiotic post claiming something that is not only completely irrelevant but also straight-up moronic.
"way to easy being way too strong"? You mean like PuMa's favourite build that no Protoss can hold?
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the thread (your 2. link) is awful and means nothing, the poll whatsoever is legit. is IdrA skilled? yes. are other people skilled too? yes. now it comes to personal preferences, but they dont count for shit, results do. It`s a poll - nothing more. If people think he is overrated, it is just that and has nothing to do with hate. there may be some people, who have strong feelings against him, but those people probably have been insulted by IdrA in the first place.
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On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate.
Yes that's clearly shown in the GSL and all, another sheep that sits on Idra's lap
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The fact that he dosent have a proffesional attitude(he often quits games midgame) makes him fun to watch and easy to hate. I only watch Idra so I can see him lose. I do not rank him even close to the really good koreans but I guess he is one of the best foreigners even thou I hate to say that since his attitude and to be honest over all results lately show that he is not really fit to fill the role of top 5 foreigners.
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I'm not sure how much we can get out of this thread.
There will always be haters on the internet, whether it's down to it being cool, jealousy, just trolling for laughs. When someone has a rather large fanbase, they'll get a lot of attention from them.
I don't see why you need to understand this....
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Not sure if it's a good idea to post in a thread by an idra fanboy, but let's see...
This may contain IEM spoilers.
+ Show Spoiler +
I didn't see any of Idra's games at IEM except for the final so I can't comment on his game vs. Puma or any other series. On the best foreigner at the moment poll: His results in the last couple of months before this IEM simply did not justify to put him up there, nor did the way he played in that time. He was still a good player but nowhere near the best foreigner. This one event is not suddenly gonna make him the best, but he probably earned his spot in the list. We've got to see if he can be consistent from now on though. He even looked unstable in the groupstage of IEM and only started to really perform well in the RO8.
I'm not an Idra fanboy, nor am I a hater. I do like how he's not afraid to give his honest opinion. That's a great character trait imo. I don't like his attitude towards balance (whining about zerg being so weak especially vs. toss when other players don't seem to have a problem in that matchup and toss is considered to be the weakest race). Saying stuff like "Zerg is not supposed to win" is just stupid.
I'm not really sure if there's that much Idra hate as you think or if you just take every negative or just objective statement about him as "hating". I'm neutral towards Idra as a player and I acknowledge his skill, but I don't like fanatic fanboys, that's why sometimes it's nice to see him lose, just to not have to bear with 20 pages of unjustified hyping.
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On October 04 2011 21:30 Orome wrote:
Idra polarizes. His haters are annoying, but his mindless fanboys are equally so. I mean for heaven's sake, someone in the LR thread said he was the Michael Jordan of Sc2.
Do you really need to hear reasons as to why people might dislike Idra? Anyone who rages and insults opponents as much as he does is going to have people who dislike him. Whether this stuff bothers you is for you to decide, but it's not all that difficult to fathomwhere the hate comes from.
Yeah, but it's all talk. Remember how sAviOr in his prime used to split the community? The guy didn't have a single shred of bad mannerism at that time, still people would hate on him for...well...winning. He was too invincible, too solid and the community pushed him into this "endboss" suit making him almost more fearsome than he already was.
People hate on Idra for not showing emotions. Hell there was an entire proteam in BW that showed no emotions.
Let him say and do whatever the fuck he wants. In the end, actions speaks louder than words. Every programer knows that.
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Honnestly, I'm really thankful to Idra. As a Protoss player, I'm always happy to meet a whiny Zerg fan of Idra who thinks that P is OP. The zerg is just whining, and then playing bad, giving me a win 
If these Zergs players were fan of Losira, Coca or Nestea, that would have been a lot of loses for me.
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Well he's BM. That can be fun, but he's just always whining, and in so many games I see from him he randomly throws big groups of units away because of poor micro or bad rally's.
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On October 04 2011 21:39 marttorn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:26 svefnleysi wrote:
He's a bad mannered egomaniac and you're surprised people don't like him?
Now that he has some results (I'm not counting IPL season 1 as "results") maybe he can afford a bit more to act the way he does.
However, a win is a win, and people shouldn't be taking away from that. Congrats to Idra. He won MLG DC in 2010, two showmatches (against HuK and QXC respectively) and USA IeSF qualifier in addition to the first IPL. Most of the respect people have for him comes from him being one of the few foreigners to go to Korea and join a pro-team in BW. He wasn't particularly successful in BW, staying on CJ's B-team for the longest time if I can recall, but he got further than 90% of all "good" foreigners ever did. So there is plenty of reason to respect IdrA as a player, I didn't even mention his good GSL finish. He hasn't been performing very well recently, so people try to come up with excuses for him winning IEM now and just hate on him more, as far as I understand anyway.
Most of the respect in SC2 for IdrA comes from 1: Past Achievements 2: Early success in foreign SC2 (King of the Beta, MLG Dallas, IEM finals etc) 3: The only foreigner except HuK now who has been consistant in GSL during his time in Korea.
IdrA has a lot more fans than fanboys to be honest. He is the only player in the community that can get 20k viewers while streaming.
I'm not an IdrA fan at all but threads like these are extremely stupid. IdrA is one of the biggest names in SC2 with a gigantic fanbase. (I'm not a hater either, hating players is something retards do)
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He is decent but when he says things like "u are a waste of human life" and "i DESERVED to win that" i just cant see myself cheering for him.
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everytime someone says that idra isnt the greatest player ever his fanboys interpret that as saying he is bad. he isnt, but hes nothing special. nerchio, stephano, sheth, sen and several others are on the same level.
and idras zvz really isnt that impressive. his zvt stands out
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On October 04 2011 21:45 Gevna wrote:Honnestly, I'm really thankful to Idra. As a Protoss player, I'm always happy to meet a whiny Zerg fan of Idra who thinks that P is OP. The zerg is just whining, and then playing bad, giving me a win If these Zergs players were fan of Losira, Coca or Nestea, that would have been a lot of loses for me.
I'm a Terran who doesnt think P is OP lol
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On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate.
Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, + Show Spoiler +only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg.
so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now.
EDIT: Edited out GSL Code S spoiler
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I don't really hate Idra. I don't like him either because I can't cheer for someone that insults his opponents and cries OP every time he loses.
Oh and his haters/fanboys are really annoying
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Netherlands45349 Posts
He is for many, the (American) Zerg hope.
He is BM, he complains alot, he got results in the past yet hasn't until well now.
He is a member of team EG.
Really, is it hard to do the math?
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On October 04 2011 21:45 Soma.bokforlag wrote:
everytime someone says that idra isnt the greatest player ever his fanboys interpret that as saying he is bad. he isnt, but hes nothing special. nerchio, stephano, sheth, sen and several others are on the same level.
and idras zvz really isnt that impressive. his zvt stands out
Sheth is miles ahead of IdrA in terms of skill. IdrA's ZvT is also pretty bad, he keeps doing retarded attacks into siege tank lines with nothing but a couple a lings and like 4 blings... I remember watching his series agaisnt Bomber at Raleigh and was blown away by how terrible his ZvT was on Shakuras Plateau in that series. Now, I've not had the chance to watch IEM, but I know that his ZvT was really effing bad at Raleigh, with PuMa and DeMusliM in his house he probably got a lot better, but i need to check out the vods to know.
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On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now.
Actually, he was right.
Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is
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An absolute shitty topic. You are referencing stuff that is completely untrue. Just check the IEM topic - final day - to see how many are cheering on Idra. I really don't get where you are getting this 'hate' from, checking his biggest of all fanclubs i really start to wonder what right of excistence this topic has..
Another easy idra topic to pump out replies.
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2nd thread a random idiot posting crap. There's a reason why he got banned.
First poll:
When most people voted he was the Zerg guy who won a MLG last year and then fell into oblivion. NA only tournaments (like IPL S1) didnt count too much of his strength on a global level.
"No results" basically means "not the best foreigner" for a lot of people. And it doesnt really matter if his losses were from lack of mental strength or just bad play - the best foreigner doesnt have either.
+ Show Spoiler [IEM] +If his IEM victory is the dawn of a new Idra era or just another fluke remains to be seen. If it's the former then people will surely consider him as the best foreigner again. If not it's no hate if they just dont think he's up on par with other foreigners
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bla bla bla... cant wait to fast forward to the next tourney he'll win
10000000000x of thread like this will appear...
things just wont (easily) change
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I dont hate him as a player i dont like him as player becausei think he plays boring. As a person i kinda like him hes interesting to watch in that way. When it comes to balance hes redicoulus its like mixing fire and water.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On October 04 2011 21:49 Kipsate wrote:
He is for many, the (American) Zerg hope.
He is BM, he complains alot, he got results in the past yet hasn't until well now.
He is a member of team EG.
Really, is it hard to do the math?
All of that and insulting his opponent and asking to his fans to harass someone because he didn't agree with him.
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On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, + Show Spoiler +only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is
sorry, IdrA has been wrong about ZvP for the last 6 months, because he STILL claims the same bullshit that he did back when zerg didnt understand how to deal with the death ball. "oh, he just won cause hes a protoss" no, he won cuz you suck at this match up and instead of actively improving you blame it on imbalance.
equally retarded? did + Show Spoiler +SangHo not JUST get raped by CoCa?
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This thread is not going to end nice.
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Well, I do not hate IdrA. Nor do I wish him dead or do I hope that he fails in every tournament he enters. In the end he, just as any other player, deserves to win his games and tournaments.
However, the reason why I'm not a fan of IdrA is basically because of three points:
- The fact that he is bad mannered within the bounderies of Starcraft II and often disrespects players even though he himself has not been performing outstanding over the past several months.
- My assumption that IdrA seems self-centered and has trouble seeing that a loss does not (only) happen due to imbalances, 'stupid' (yet valid) strategies or 'coin-flip situations'. He seems a tad arrogant, thinking that he is right with his strategies and that these should win him the game no matter what while he has several things to improve (his Infestor micro for example).
- My assumption that IdrA is consistingly placing himself (and the Zerg race) in an underdog position as the worst race that is 'unable to win games'. This can lead tot a 'tilt' or a mental breakdown (even though it's completely not necessary) and we all know what happens next.
Additionally, the problem that IdrA has is not unique or very special but it's exaggerated by his fanclub. Everytime IdrA loses people come here with strange and unreasonable excuses why IdrA lost instead of accepting that their favourite player is not invincible in the game he plays. Disrespecting IdrA's opponents, citating old quotes from IdrA or even, without thinking, following his 'orders' (go spam a moderator because i'm banned from TL and therefore not streaming).
So, because I can't identify with both IdrA himself aswell as his fanclub, I do not consider myself a fan. This does not mean I don't like him winning, of course not. I does simply mean I'm not rooting for him as a personal favourite.
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On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Jvlvy.png)
As a Terran player I'm sure you never followed it very closely, but it was never as bad as Zergs made it to be...they just love to complain. If a Zerg hits 70 drones uncontested they still win, the ones that refused to harass died to the deathball, mass Colossi with Blink Stalkers never worked...a smart Zerg would take the whole map and yes, Roach/Hydra/Corruptor was (and still is) viable if you have a far superior economy, which you can easily get against the 3base turtle style that Zerg claimed to be overpowerd.
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On October 04 2011 21:53 The Black wrote:This thread is not going to end nice.
I like IdrA, I like him when he plays well, I like him when he's on State of the Game, I even dont mind his ridiculous BM, its funny sometimes. The balance whining in a match up thats clearly not P favored is what makes me rage about him though :/
plus, IdrA said he hates his fans and that they're all a bunch of morons, which made me LOL so hard that people were looking at me funny (SotG on iPhone on the train xD)
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On October 04 2011 21:44 Jayson X wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:30 Orome wrote:
Idra polarizes. His haters are annoying, but his mindless fanboys are equally so. I mean for heaven's sake, someone in the LR thread said he was the Michael Jordan of Sc2.
Do you really need to hear reasons as to why people might dislike Idra? Anyone who rages and insults opponents as much as he does is going to have people who dislike him. Whether this stuff bothers you is for you to decide, but it's not all that difficult to fathomwhere the hate comes from. Yeah, but it's all talk. Remember how sAviOr in his prime used to split the community? The guy didn't have a single shred of bad mannerism at that time, still people would hate on him for...well...winning. He was too invincible, too solid and the community pushed him into this "endboss" suit making him almost more fearsome than he already was. People hate on Idra for not showing emotions. Hell there was an entire proteam in BW that showed no emotions. Let him say and do whatever the fuck he wants. In the end, actions speaks louder than words. Every programer knows that.
Well Savior did have his ma hitler picture. :p
Anyway, it's definitely not all talk, Idra IS bad mannered, but eh, I'm not going either way on this. I'm not the biggest fan of Idra's tantrums, but I don't think they're that big a deal either.
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I think zergs are going to loose if they always whine about balance even when it is balanced and not. If you are gonna whine about balance do it when it really is unbalanced then maybe more people will listen.
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I don't cheer for him, but I don't think he's a bad player. I do think he's gotten worse since he left Korea but even he acknowledges that and that's why he's going back. I don't cheer for IdrA because his fanboys are so fucking annoying it turns me off from enjoying his games. If he wins he's suddenly a God and the best player in the world, if he loses then the other race is broken and overpowered. His attitude towards the game and balance leaks into his fans who then spill it all out in these threads. It's annoying.
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Win against Puma is his only notable tournament result for a long time. He was really good when he was in Korea, but then he moved to usa and his skill decreased.
For example i am jinro fan but i cant contradict fact that he is in slump. Same for Idra he is no longer best (or one of the best) foreigner(s).
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It's extremly annoying how almost every tournament thread digresses into a flamewar between idra fans/haters :/ I don't get why he gets so much attention compared to his bad sportmanship und underwhelming results/play in the last months.
He made me an anti fan with his behavior towards Cruncher on stage @MLG and his various outbursts online but there's no point in spamming LR Threads with it -_-
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On October 04 2011 21:53 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, + Show Spoiler +only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is sorry, IdrA has been wrong about ZvP for the last 6 months, because he STILL claims the same bullshit that he did back when zerg didnt understand how to deal with the death ball. "oh, he just won cause hes a protoss" no, he won cuz you suck at this match up and instead of actively improving you blame it on imbalance. equally retarded? did + Show Spoiler +SangHo not JUST get raped by CoCa?
Everyone makes little comments like that when they lose, if Idra was Protoss/Terran he'd do the exact same thing, it's just his nature. He was not wrong about it 6 months ago. I had something like a 90% w/l ratio against Zerg cause you could just mass stalkers with Collosi, it wasn't hard.
Instead of activevly improving? Did he not just win IEM? I'll agree with you on that though, he probably could've gotten a lot better if he didn't whine, but saying he isn't improving is stupid, which you are apparently.
You're really going to bring 1 match in the GSL to prove your point? Not only that, I didn't even mention the current balance in my previous post so what does that Sango statement have to anything with what I said.
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Oh, a thread for people to post how much they hate IdrA, what's new?
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either way, it is good to have players like idra in the scene.
he has a strong personality, which gives people a reason to care about his games.
i personally think that is something most of the players are lacking. most of the players i really don't know much about. i don't know about their background, their attitude, etc. so most of the games i don't really have a reason to care about the result, which makes it a little bit less exciting to watch.
gom tv sometimes does small specials about individual players like yellow or mkp which really gives the viewers a chance to get to know the players better. esports really needs more of that, imho
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It's funny, people dislike him because he's real, most people like to hide behind a fake personality when it comes to being well-known in an industry (for reputation reasons)
IdrA just doesn't give a shit even though he's sponsored, which is what I truly admire in a person.
KEEPIN IT REAL.
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I can't help but read spoilers and I did not watch IEM but....
FUCKING GO IDRA!!!!! HHWAIITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111one
It is a common misconception that a lot of people hate Idra but in reality it is like 10 people with 30 accounts on reddit and TL who bash him. The majority of people know Idra is gosu.
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On October 04 2011 21:55 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is As a Terran player I'm sure you never followed it very closely, but it was never as bad as Zergs made it to be...they just love to complain. If a Zerg hits 70 drones uncontested they still win, the ones that refused to harass died to the deathball, mass Colossi with Blink Stalkers never worked...a smart Zerg would take the whole map and yes, Roach/Hydra/Corruptor was (and still is) viable if you have a far superior economy, which you can easily get against the 3base turtle style that Zerg claimed to be overpowerd.
What an extraordinary post, a person showing me a graph of ladder games (Is it even Masters only?), that is trying to explain ZvP to me when he's a Terran player, and judging by your post probably in bronze league, oh lawd.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 04 2011 21:55 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is As a Terran player I'm sure you never followed it very closely, but it was never as bad as Zergs made it to be...they just love to complain. If a Zerg hits 70 drones uncontested they still win, the ones that refused to harass died to the deathball, mass Colossi with Blink Stalkers never worked...a smart Zerg would take the whole map and yes, Roach/Hydra/Corruptor was (and still is) viable if you have a far superior economy, which you can easily get against the 3base turtle style that Zerg claimed to be overpowerd.
I'm not one to get into balance arguments a whole lot but if you look at that graph when zerg was doing very poorly, their win rates were lower vs both T and P than the P win rates right now. The only difference was we have nestea.....and P has who? Anyways good luck with the protoss complaining...maybe they will buff your harassment or something so you can be the 55% win rate race again.
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I know that IdrA can be very badmannered most of the time, but I think he deserves the acknowledgement of winning this tournament. He hasn't had a great run recently with MLG and DreamHack, mostly because of the PvZ matchup which he perceives as imbalanced. Therefore I congratulate IdrA on beating a seemingly unmatched Korean player, and kudos to him for that. I am no particular hater of IdrA, and to the contrary not a supporter of his rage either.
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On October 04 2011 21:59 Benzzro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:53 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, + Show Spoiler +only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is sorry, IdrA has been wrong about ZvP for the last 6 months, because he STILL claims the same bullshit that he did back when zerg didnt understand how to deal with the death ball. "oh, he just won cause hes a protoss" no, he won cuz you suck at this match up and instead of actively improving you blame it on imbalance. equally retarded? did + Show Spoiler +SangHo not JUST get raped by CoCa? Everyone makes little comments like that when they lose, if Idra was Protoss/Terran he'd do the exact same thing, it's just his nature. He was not wrong about it 6 months ago. I had something like a 90% w/l ratio against Zerg cause you could just mass stalkers with Collosi, it wasn't hard. Instead of activevly improving? Did he not just win IEM? I'll agree with you on that though, he probably could've gotten a lot better if he didn't whine, but saying he isn't improving is stupid, which you are apparently. You're really going to bring 1 match in the GSL to prove your point? Not only that, I didn't even mention the current balance in my previous post so what does that Sango statement have to anything with what I said.
wow, so you dont agree with me and because of that I'm stupid? Glad to see that the IdrA fanbase is still as mannered and mature as ever.
anyways, one GSL match? how about there are no protoss in GSL Code S? that the only protoss wins in Code A were agaisnt bad zergs (ie SuperStar) or terrible play (ie Check)
how about the most innovative and the staple of Protoss has been knocked out of Code A by a mediocre Zerg.
If protoss was easy, please, kindly explain why Protoss has only two GSL championships? go on, I'm sure your arguments will be enlightening.
mass stalker colossus was easy to use, true enough, its also really easy to kill, so your argument is invalid. In fact, all that a zerg needs to do to beat that composition is A) spam R, B) click a drone , then go V + I C) wait for the building to finish and click H on your lair. D) click G on your spire. and boom, voila, you just raped a colossi stalker death ball because stalker colossus loses agaisnt roach Brood Lord (unless of course you're an idiot and you fly your Broods all one over a pack of stalkers and watch them die powerlessly *cough Idra vs MC Dreamhack 2010 cough*)
zergs that lose vs mass stalker colossus lose because they're terrible. When you know that a simple infestor, Brood Lord, Roach destroys that composition so thoroughly. Or infestor Ultra ling. Hell, even muta infestor ling or muta ling bling does well agaisnt that composition.
and honestly, I don't give a shit about your win rate with mass stalker colossi, you know why? because its not Nestea, or Losira, or CoCa, or Min, or July etc that you beat.
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On October 04 2011 22:02 Versioned wrote:
It's funny, people dislike him because he's real, most people like to hide behind a fake personality when it comes to being well-known in an industry for reputation reasons
IdrA just doesn't give a shit, which is what I truly admire in a person.
Thats why hes blaming looses on balance when the reality its the direct opposite? i call that ignorance not admireble
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On October 04 2011 21:39 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/ So you dont like people who prefers to try to win becasue they have better mechanics, instead of relying on coinflips? Stupid opinion imo.
I have to agree macro isn't all. All-Ins or Cheese are important, too. MvP does it Nestea does it etc.
But the worst thing about Idra is he is telling a lot of shit and there are actually people out there who believe him. But at least I think he is better then players which got all theirs success from some trendy all-in strats ( you know those guys, which are only good at one specific build). So I wasn't that unhappy when he defeated one of these guys at IEM. :D
So overall in my opinion the haters hate him for his whining and the way he is telling us how to play the game.
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People tend to like people who are similar to themselves, and we have plenty of angry bad mannered 12 year olds on the internet.
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Here's the deal.
People that know Starcraft and have followed the scene to some extent know that Idra is a good player, he was good in BW and he's good in SC2, i wouldn't say he's the best foreigner but definitely up there in the absolute top tier. He's also known for his "BM" and while i agree that he might be a bit BM here and there some of you have taken it waaaaay too far, making him out to be some kind of devil. The first 5000 husky videos, "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL IDRA RAGEQUIT! 1-5000" certainly helped in the making of the BM-idra image, but i swear if any of you were to meet him on the street/LAN/subway/wherever you'd soon realize that he's probably as nice as the next guy, i've read hundreds of blogposts/tweets about how people went up to Idra and asked for a picture or something and explained that he was nothing but nice about it.
9 times out of 10, the haters are always the ones that are brand spanking new to the scene and are desperately trying to fit in by calling him BM based on what Reddit says.
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On October 04 2011 22:03 Benzzro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:55 Ruscour wrote:On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is As a Terran player I'm sure you never followed it very closely, but it was never as bad as Zergs made it to be...they just love to complain. If a Zerg hits 70 drones uncontested they still win, the ones that refused to harass died to the deathball, mass Colossi with Blink Stalkers never worked...a smart Zerg would take the whole map and yes, Roach/Hydra/Corruptor was (and still is) viable if you have a far superior economy, which you can easily get against the 3base turtle style that Zerg claimed to be overpowerd. What an extraordinary post, a person showing me a graph of ladder games (Is it even Masters only?), that is trying to explain ZvP to me when he's a Terran player, and judging by your post probably in bronze league, oh lawd.
Learn your graphs, these are posted regularly from http://twitter.com/#!/sc2statistics. The author of these graphs gets his data from tournaments/cups and proleagues. Think whatever, but do some research before burning someone down in a reply.
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I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites.
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I used to like idra fanatically.
but honestly if you're an ass and can't back it up with good play (consistently) it's just not tolerable. Hopefully this marks a turnaround for idra considering his atrocious last couple of months.
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On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites.
HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful?
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No amount of skill can make me respect a player who behaves as badly as Idra does constantly. And I don't even think he is that skilled. Compared to how much BW and SC2 he has been practicing, his results are just very poor imo.
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It's quite funny how Idra generates like half of the clicks on TL.
I don't mind his BM or actually care, but this is the reason why he makes more money than any other sc2-player right now and I don't think this is a good development per se.
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The people I know 'hate' IdrA because they see him as mediocre player who whines/flames/cry about balance.
They don't 'hate' him per say, they just don't think he has the accomplishments in SC2 to act like he does. Now that he finally won something again maybe that will change..
Personnally I just think of IdrA's attitude as an act, and while I do not agree with the way he acts, he still has my respect as a player.
(Edit: Except when he GGs out too soon, but that seems to have changed)
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Good or fantastic player doesn't mean anything for me if he has bad manner.
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The guy is a tool.... He is flat-out disrepectful most of the time and if his shirts get any tighter then he is going to suffocate. The OP is a bit off too... the guy is not the best foreigner. He is good, but nowhere near the best. This is is first win in a long time.... honestly he has been subpar recently so I'm a bit surprised by his win.
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wow some hard core puma fanboys. idra 3-0ed him pretty legitly. his muta play in game 1 was at its absolute highest like seriously. puma played so passivily because he honestly had no other choice. if puma moved out even a inch idra was was in his main with mutas killing everything insight. this means that puma really had 2 choices. stick close to his bases and defend against mutas, or move out and try to end the game with what he had which would have just been a all in on pumas part because the mutas would have devastated his main and his expos if he moved out.
idras nydus play in that game was also top notch. he did litteraly everything he could to spread puma out and to keep him turtled up which is what u should do against a terran. usually its terran/puma spreading out his opponent with multiple drop harass. idra just gave him a taste of his own medicine really.
ppl really take things too far with this fanboyism crap. i mean going so far as to yell "conspiracy" or "the series was rigged"? what grounds do you ppl base that on? do u not remember the entire reason they set up the EG training house? it was for ppl like puma and idra to refine there play, and the evidence of how much both players improved over the months were shown in that series.
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On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful?
I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now.
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I don't know the guy personally or anything, but Idra seems really immature. He seems like one of those kids who nobody really wants to hang out with, but for some reason developed a really big ego based off some moderate accomplishment.
Or you know that kid who would turn off the Nintendo and pout when he lost at viedogames, so you were all like "why do we even play with this guy?"... he seems like that kind of guy who never grew out of it.
From a purely psychological point of view, I think he got too much praise for small accomplishments when he was young, and so has developed an accute aversion to failure as an adult that gets seen when he employs all those psychological defensive mechanisms in-game to protect his ego (the BM, the early GGs, the unsportansman-like conduct).
Personally, I don't care for Idra because he's a bit too much like me.
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On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now.
He won these events when he was in Liquid. If I was a troll I would say, now that he is in eg he does't get out of pool play. But I'm not.
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i laughed my ass off at that thread. especially when he made a post agreeing with himself cuz he forgot to switch accounts. hilarious
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On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now.
sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results?
Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN.
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Idra is a very controversial character. There are legions of fanboys and anti-fanboys ready to defend and attack him at the sign of the smallest provocation. This makes him very valuable to his sponsors and as long as he keeps posting results, they would rather have it no other way.
I would note, though, that his isn't the only rabid fanbase here (I still don't get all the love TL has for Stephano, for example), even if it is the loudest.
Also, his games with PuMa were awsome, but they weren't magnificient or anything. Idra missed a lot of clear opportunities to be agressive (imho) and PuMa made a few critical mistakes. Frankly, I think they were both too passive and this worked in Idra's favor (even though PuMa revels in the Terran late-game).
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Most people hate Idra because he is a badmannered noob who swears to players after he loses like wtf. He swore to Mana after he got owned like 3-0 or something and mana is like the nicest guy there is man and also he complains balance 24/7 so yeah thats why they hate him and they should because hes a immature noob.
Now you know he doesn't just complain balance but swears to players for no reason but because of losing to them like a noob then blames balance for it.
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On October 04 2011 21:55 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is As a Terran player I'm sure you never followed it very closely, but it was never as bad as Zergs made it to be...they just love to complain. If a Zerg hits 70 drones uncontested they still win, the ones that refused to harass died to the deathball, mass Colossi with Blink Stalkers never worked...a smart Zerg would take the whole map and yes, Roach/Hydra/Corruptor was (and still is) viable if you have a far superior economy, which you can easily get against the 3base turtle style that Zerg claimed to be overpowerd.
Seeing as you preface the most with "As a Terran player" I will forgive you for your ignorance, but nothing in this post holds any truth.
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Do we really need thread for this ...
Maybe the poeople dont "hate" idra but rather his fans ?
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title spoilers way to much .....
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I think this thread was unnecessary; IdrA "hate" seemed to be receding after his IEM win, and bringing it up here with a massive discussion (even though it's mainly people just posting what they think of IdrA) has seemed to aggravate a previously non-issue.
Did you not see all the "GRACK IS BACK" stuff on reddit and the pages in his fan club congratulating him on his win? Sure there's some hate mixed in there, but who cares, do we really need to discuss it?
If you like him - root for him. If you don't - just don't... No real need to have a thread about it imo.
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Maybe (lol) it is because he (and his fans) behave like he is the god sent foreign messiah of SC2...
Which is A stupid and B plain annoying.
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Good to see IdrA finally post some results. I don't think that it's "hate" towards the guy so much as aggravated disappointment, both from his fans and anti-fans.
Can't remember the exact episode but iNcontroL was talking about IdrA playing 20 games in a row versus Puma in training on SOTG. Maybe he's finally got that "eye of the tiger" thing going on now, and if so his "controversy" will stabilize around the fun aspects of his character (like his BM) instead of the disappointing aspects (blame-shifting, inconsistency, tendency to give up).
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Idra is getting unearned hate lately about IEM? Check the few last pages of the LR thread about IEM. There is someone getting way too much unearned hate and it is not IdrA. Stop the circlejerk please.
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I think what a lot of people don't understand from IdrA's BM is that he's trying to play mind games at a level most do not comprehend. He makes himself or his opponent seem weaker by claiming that other players are either not as good as people perceive them to be, or only as good as their supposedly "imbalanced" race. What this does is create a mindset for players who face off against him because they think he will be too ever eager, or will not try hard enough to win since he believes that the odds are against him. With this mindset, IdrA will be able to conquer his opponents easily because they will misunderstand him as a player.
I believe that this has been months in the making. I'm not claiming that previous losses were apart of his plan, but I do think that he purposely talks so much shit because he knows that this is going to affect his opponents one way or another. His losses are indeed a lack-of-skill, but in time he will start doing a lot better because people will continue to think he's a weak player due to the fact that he talks so much crap.
This idea of playing mind games at this level though is not uncommon. Nestea seems to be a huge advocate of this kind of thing, because every final he has been in, he wasn't scared of losing. He is constantly saying in pre-finals interviews that he expects to win almost always either 4-0 or 4-1 - This creates a mindset for his opponent to be in, which Nestea can pick apart. When his opponents tailor builds to defeat him, Nestea is given the upper hand because he understands botht mindset of himself and his opponent which is critical in almost every strategy game.
TL;DR - IdrA's BM is a mind game, and other champions have used similar tactics that weren't so obvious. People who hate IdrA for his BM simply do not comprehend what he's trying to do.
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says spoiler alert in the title for those that are complaining about spoilers
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Whatever. He has an enormous following. There are just as many people, probably more, that are happy and super ecstatic that he won. Mad people just post more on the internet than happy people.
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I still love Idra  even though he was in a slump but seems to have worked hard to get this win the step up in practicing has obviously helped gj Idra!! Anyone know where the vods are?
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what did the idra conspriracy thread detail?
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People love idra or love to hate him.. either way he is happy!
I just don't like when people try and take credit from others.
For instance Foreigners vs Koreans in TSL, idra vs puma etc..
it was a great day for idra, EG and NA's SC2!
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Zzzzzzzz I don't like to post negative posts, but whatever.
I played broodwar with idra and we played a lot friendly 1v1's the kid always came across as a ego-centric douche and that still hasn't changed, I do not like him as a person but as a player he is very good but NOT as good as his fanboys make him out to be, there are at least 5 better "foreigner" zergs then him.
His personality-wise I think Rekrul summed it up best in his posts that were posted quite a long time ago, but are still applicable.
In short, good player not a likeable person.
And I really really dislike these kinds of threads because they just fuel the e-wars between "fanboys" and "haters" and the only thing those things result in is him having more publicity which he imho, does not deserve.
Spotlight should be on people like Stephano, Ret, Dimaga and Nerchio (you know the guy who Idra refused to show up against cuz he knew he'd most likely lose) and I probably forgot a few more.
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Um guess what before SC2 the majority of people on here did not like him and he was flamed constantly. It felt like EVERYONE wanted Nony/Tyler to beat him in TSL2.
Now i just dislike his fans more than him, like the guy above trying to claim his BM is 'mindgames'. How fucking naive are you? He used to bm in random ladder games all the time that no one else would ever see, he's just a typical sort of player that can't help losing it and making comments. Calling people faggots on the ladder and acting like a stereotypical USEast kid is not being some master of mindgames for fuck sake, get a grip.
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives? IEM spoiler: + Show Spoiler +Only a few hours ago IdrA won IEM, and in that time there has been so much de-legitimising of his series against Puma. People don't seem to recognise just how phenomenaly he played and think that Puma cannot be outplayed and every mistake he made was part of his plan to throw the series. Noticeably on the 'best foreigner poll' thread and that hilarious conspiracy theory thread that the now banned Spasticated made. I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
Do you mean he is top foreigner in the sense top 5 or in the sense one of the best foreigners meaning like top 20-30. Because the second is pretty clearly true, but the first is on the other hand pretty clearly false ( if you use some reasonable metric of "being top" ). As for hate towards Idra, I would say you reap what you sow, and I do not mean his ridiculous statements about balance, I mean his constant bashing of other players, some actually better than him. And as for delegitimizing his win, some people are just like that, he won with very good play and deserved the win. Although people are overrating his win against Puma as I do not think Puma is that good of a player in TvZ (compared to the best code S Korean terrans, in general he is of course extremely good), I was much more impressed with his win against Revival.
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On October 04 2011 22:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I think what a lot of people don't understand from IdrA's BM is that he's trying to play mind games at a level most do not comprehend. He makes himself or his opponent seem weaker by claiming that other players are either not as good as people perceive them to be, or only as good as their supposedly "imbalanced" race. What this does is create a mindset for players who face off against him because they think he will be too ever eager, or will not try hard enough to win since he believes that the odds are against him. With this mindset, IdrA will be able to conquer his opponents easily because they will misunderstand him as a player.
I believe that this has been months in the making. I'm not claiming that previous losses were apart of his plan, but I do think that he purposely talks so much shit because he knows that this is going to affect his opponents one way or another. His losses are indeed a lack-of-skill, but in time he will start doing a lot better because people will continue to think he's a weak player due to the fact that he talks so much crap.
This idea of playing mind games at this level though is not uncommon. Nestea seems to be a huge advocate of this kind of thing, because every final he has been in, he wasn't scared of losing. He is constantly saying in pre-finals interviews that he expects to win almost always either 4-0 or 4-1 - This creates a mindset for his opponent to be in, which Nestea can pick apart. When his opponents tailor builds to defeat him, Nestea is given the upper hand because he understands botht mindset of himself and his opponent which is critical in almost every strategy game.
TL;DR - IdrA's BM is a mind game, and other champions have used similar tactics that weren't so obvious. People who hate IdrA for his BM simply do not comprehend what he's trying to do.
That is the most ridiculous theory ever (or his mind games are terribly ineffective) as the only one who seems to be affected by them is Idra. Did you not see his games in recent months, MC, HuK and countless others totally mindfucked Idra to the point that he defeats himself more often than not.
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:
Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives?
Absolutely yes.
What goes around, comes around. Show respect to others if you want to be universally liked/respected.
That said, I had no idea about the [spoiler]. ;o
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:
Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives?
You know that after Chill banned him ( for 1 day or 2) he asked to his fans on twitter to harass him on teamliquid right?
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IdrA is a hate him or love him kind of player, most people have some sort of opinion about him. He just won a tournarment so his haters feel the need be negative towards him. As a fan of IdrA I just ignore the hate and instead enjoy Greg's awesome games.
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives? IEM spoiler: + Show Spoiler +Only a few hours ago IdrA won IEM, and in that time there has been so much de-legitimising of his series against Puma. People don't seem to recognise just how phenomenaly he played and think that Puma cannot be outplayed and every mistake he made was part of his plan to throw the series. Noticeably on the 'best foreigner poll' thread and that hilarious conspiracy theory thread that the now banned Spasticated made. I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
so you're admittedly a mindless idra fanboy and can't see how anybody on earth might think he is not God walking amongst people in human form. how strange
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On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN.
You completely forgot Haypro
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I love IdrA's play, and I actually also love IdrA's comments because he'll call out bad play from players that everyone else in the community would be too "respectful" to call out. IdrA more often than not has specific critiques of his opponent that lead to him calling them "bad," not just random knee-jerk rage fests. So I love it when he calls players bad, not because it's funny/rude/whatever, but because he'll more often than not explain why.
If we can't talk about why players aren't as good as they should be, why are we even watching the games? The pretty graphics?
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On October 04 2011 22:41 hoby2000 wrote:
I think what a lot of people don't understand from IdrA's BM is that he's trying to play mind games at a level most do not comprehend. He makes himself or his opponent seem weaker by claiming that other players are either not as good as people perceive them to be, or only as good as their supposedly "imbalanced" race. What this does is create a mindset for players who face off against him because they think he will be too ever eager, or will not try hard enough to win since he believes that the odds are against him. With this mindset, IdrA will be able to conquer his opponents easily because they will misunderstand him as a player.
I believe that this has been months in the making. I'm not claiming that previous losses were apart of his plan, but I do think that he purposely talks so much shit because he knows that this is going to affect his opponents one way or another. His losses are indeed a lack-of-skill, but in time he will start doing a lot better because people will continue to think he's a weak player due to the fact that he talks so much crap.
This idea of playing mind games at this level though is not uncommon. Nestea seems to be a huge advocate of this kind of thing, because every final he has been in, he wasn't scared of losing. He is constantly saying in pre-finals interviews that he expects to win almost always either 4-0 or 4-1 - This creates a mindset for his opponent to be in, which Nestea can pick apart. When his opponents tailor builds to defeat him, Nestea is given the upper hand because he understands botht mindset of himself and his opponent which is critical in almost every strategy game.
TL;DR - IdrA's BM is a mind game, and other champions have used similar tactics that weren't so obvious. People who hate IdrA for his BM simply do not comprehend what he's trying to do.
So explain why Idra has been the same for 5+ years now.
Nice psychological analysis.
A far simpler reason would be that Idra just says what's on his mind (which I don't have a problem with but it's hilarious when he trashtalks then gets smashed right afterwards).
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I'd consider myself an Idra hater, the reasons being:
1.- He's got a TERRIBLE attitude, absolutely horrible mindset. He doesn't have a champion's mind AND gets mindless praise for that.
2.- He's a balance whiner, and one with terrible arguments and extremely close-minded. Sometimes it's so ridiculous it reminds me of schizophrenic delusions.
3.- He believes there's only one way to play the game, and if it doesn't work he's incapable of realizing his own mistakes or his opppnent's good play and instead blames it on the game. Seriously dude?
4.- He's a sore loser, with pathetic frustration tolerance problems. AND he's a terrible winner, uncapable of even respecting his opponents.
5.- He BMs way too much and in really disgusting forms and context. The classic example is comparing him to MC at MLG. You could tell MC was being a showman while Idra was just being a jackass.
6.- Finally, and worst of all, he has the most annoying fans ever, who will make a huge deal and completely overhype anything decent he does while at the same time praise him for behaving like a spoiled child. Disgusting.
All that said, he's a good SC player, he understands the game at a truly high level, which makes his attitude problems even worse since he could be so much better without them. I also realize how full of hate this post is, but you asked, I'm giving my thoughts.
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People don't hate Idra because of how he plays, people hate him because of his personality. I'm not a fanboy or a hater, but he does come off as arrogant/cocky at times.
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On October 04 2011 23:15 zarepath wrote:
I love IdrA's play, and I actually also love IdrA's comments because he'll call out bad play from players that everyone else in the community would be too "respectful" to call out. IdrA more often than not has specific critiques of his opponent that lead to him calling them "bad," not just random knee-jerk rage fests. So I love it when he calls players bad, not because it's funny/rude/whatever, but because he'll more often than not explain why.
If we can't talk about why players aren't as good as they should be, why are we even watching the games? The pretty graphics?
didn't you watch the video about him in these forums? he pretty much thinks almost everyone is bad he's playing against
he'd be a funny character in a movie, but he has got a horrible mindset as a "sportsman"
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives? IEM spoiler: + Show Spoiler +Only a few hours ago IdrA won IEM, and in that time there has been so much de-legitimising of his series against Puma. People don't seem to recognise just how phenomenaly he played and think that Puma cannot be outplayed and every mistake he made was part of his plan to throw the series. Noticeably on the 'best foreigner poll' thread and that hilarious conspiracy theory thread that the now banned Spasticated made. I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
Heh, I was kinda thinking the opposite. Idra gets way too much legatimising no matter what he does. Theres way too many people who are like "Hahahaha IdrA behaved like a total ass there and completely trash talked this other dude, he's so awesome!!!!".
The fact that he gets a lot of unnecessary hate is just a reaction to the silly amount of support he gets normally even though you could say he doesnt deserve it. Im not saying the hate is good (it isnt), but in the end its the rediculous amount of support he gets for behaving bad which triggers the hate, not the other way around.
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On October 04 2011 23:12 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. You completely forgot Haypro
OMFG HAYDER IM SO SORRY!!!!!!!! >< god thats so awful >< HayprO didnt get any big results however he consistently does well in TL's team leagues, even taking a game off of SlayerS :D I'm sorry Hayder, I <3 you!
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On October 04 2011 21:24 andycz wrote:
IdrA hate? What are you talking about, 85% people here go "zomg idra teh best foreigner" 24/7.
i am with this guy ... i dont even know what the OP is even talking about
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On October 04 2011 21:30 Orome wrote:
Idra polarizes. His haters are annoying, but his mindless fanboys are equally so. I mean for heaven's sake, someone in the LR thread said he was the Michael Jordan of Sc2.
Someone didn't get the InControl-related joke (nor failed to read on to realize it wasn't serious).
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Personally, I think Idra is an arrogant douche. He never takes personal credit for any of his losses; I'm surprised he's able to improve.
Professionally, you have to respect his play. If he can win a tourney against this kind of competition he deserves the win, and shouldn't be getting any flak.
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as a person idra is completely unlikable as a player he is nothing special, if it was not for his constant attitude and bad manner (and hilarious gg timing) no one would pay attention to him because then there would be nothing attention grabbing about him least of all his play.
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Idra is a bit extreme in his attitude but well he's kinda funny when he's raging. I also think sometimes he has valid points regarding game balance and bad design but he expresses them in a way most people are not able to understand or he's too blunt. In the end he's just a progamer and he just had a very good result, words are what they are and I am pretty sure if his attitude wouldn't be considered acceptable or funny by many people he would behave differently.
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On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/
i'm not sure what your understanding of a "winner" is but last time i checked, a winner, wins.that's it. he won so therefore he's a winner. just because you have external factors and beliefs to what makes you or someone else a winner, doesn't make him any less of one.
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On October 04 2011 23:21 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:12 Roggay wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. You completely forgot Haypro OMFG HAYDER IM SO SORRY!!!!!!!! >< god thats so awful >< HayprO didnt get any big results however he consistently does well in TL's team leagues, even taking a game off of SlayerS :D I'm sorry Hayder, I <3 you!
To be fair Jinro/TLO's results are not recent, they've been slumping hard for longer than Idra. Sure the TL roster is playing better than Strifecro/Axslav/Incontrol/Lz but you can't fault EG for at least being loyal to their team (or waiting for contracts to expire, lol).
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On October 04 2011 23:15 zarepath wrote:
I love IdrA's play, and I actually also love IdrA's comments because he'll call out bad play from players that everyone else in the community would be too "respectful" to call out. IdrA more often than not has specific critiques of his opponent that lead to him calling them "bad," not just random knee-jerk rage fests. So I love it when he calls players bad, not because it's funny/rude/whatever, but because he'll more often than not explain why.
If we can't talk about why players aren't as good as they should be, why are we even watching the games? The pretty graphics?
No he does not, he actually just bashes his opponents without saying anything reasonable about why, unless "plays protoss" or "he is just bad" are reasonable arguments to you.
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On October 04 2011 23:19 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:Am I the only person who is a little bit surprised by how negative the community is towards one player? I know IdrA is very outspoken on balance and how he feels Protoss is hugely overpowered versus Zerg, but is that really a good enough excuse for all the negative comments he receives? IEM spoiler: + Show Spoiler +Only a few hours ago IdrA won IEM, and in that time there has been so much de-legitimising of his series against Puma. People don't seem to recognise just how phenomenaly he played and think that Puma cannot be outplayed and every mistake he made was part of his plan to throw the series. Noticeably on the 'best foreigner poll' thread and that hilarious conspiracy theory thread that the now banned Spasticated made. I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo. Heh, I was kinda thinking the opposite. Idra gets way too much legatimising no matter what he does. Theres way too many people who are like "Hahahaha IdrA behaved like a total ass there and completely trash talked this other dude, he's so awesome!!!!". The fact that he gets a lot of unnecessary hate is just a reaction to the silly amount of support he gets normally even though you could say he doesnt deserve it. Im not saying the hate is good (it isnt), but in the end its the rediculous amount of support he gets for behaving bad which triggers the hate, not the other way around.
I really don't think he gets a lot of support for behaving badly, its just that people are enjoying it, but not supporting it.
In the end, people are always seeing only what they want to see, and it works both ways (hate him or like him).
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On October 04 2011 23:16 mordk wrote:
I'd consider myself an Idra hater, the reasons being:
1.- He's got a TERRIBLE attitude, absolutely horrible mindset. He doesn't have a champion's mind AND gets mindless praise for that.
2.- He's a balance whiner, and one with terrible arguments and extremely close-minded. Sometimes it's so ridiculous it reminds me of schizophrenic delusions.
3.- He believes there's only one way to play the game, and if it doesn't work he's incapable of realizing his own mistakes or his opppnent's good play and instead blames it on the game. Seriously dude?
4.- He's a sore loser, with pathetic frustration tolerance problems. AND he's a terrible winner, uncapable of even respecting his opponents.
5.- He BMs way too much and in really disgusting forms and context. The classic example is comparing him to MC at MLG. You could tell MC was being a showman while Idra was just being a jackass.
6.- Finally, and worst of all, he has the most annoying fans ever, who will make a huge deal and completely overhype anything decent he does while at the same time praise him for behaving like a spoiled child. Disgusting.
All that said, he's a good SC player, he understands the game at a truly high level, which makes his attitude problems even worse since he could be so much better without them. I also realize how full of hate this post is, but you asked, I'm giving my thoughts.
That is so true, i wanted to give my own point of view but you said all of it in your post. Bravo
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Yeah I think Idra is not an Angel but he is most of the thime honest and says what he feels and that could be unproffesional somethimes, but still he is one of the best foreigner.
Most of his complains have normaly a cause for example the lag of scouting units in SC2 discussion with Day 9 it was not completly silly. And he is VERY emotional somethimes.
But think about the last tournament a foreigner took yes it was the HomestoryCup 2 and now everybody should respect the win.
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Idra has actually gotten a lot better with gg after each game as well as not leaving the game early. Im proud of you idra!
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On October 04 2011 23:24 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:21 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:12 Roggay wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. You completely forgot Haypro OMFG HAYDER IM SO SORRY!!!!!!!! >< god thats so awful >< HayprO didnt get any big results however he consistently does well in TL's team leagues, even taking a game off of SlayerS :D I'm sorry Hayder, I <3 you! To be fair Jinro/TLO's results are not recent, they've been slumping hard for longer than Idra. Sure the TL roster is playing better than Strifecro/Axslav/Incontrol/Lz but you can't fault EG for at least being loyal to their team (or waiting for contracts to expire, lol).
woah woah woah woah! I'm not faulting EG ANYTHING! they have an awesome team house, a really strong line up of star players (DeMusliM, IdrA, HuK and PuMa), they provide great content to the community (EGMasters Cup), and one of their players is one of our community's pillars (Hi Geoff)
EG is a great team, TL is a great team. I like EG but I love TL
also: Jinro is coming out of his slump. He's been stomping people in IPL quals, only falling to really tough koreans, also Artosis says he's starting to beast it up. GOGO JINRO HWAITING! <3
and TLO didnt really "slump," if i remember correctly he went for surgery after(?) his best MLG run and couldnt practice at all for like 2 months. So i dont count it as a slump but more as an injury that set him back and he just needs to get back on form, kinda like DeMusliM with his arm. He was slumping too with his broken arm...look at him now :D go Ben! I love Ben
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I missed the finals but Idra's games vs. Puma were amazing. I saw 6 or 7 moments where the Idra I know would have a-moved into Puma's army and then gg'd promptly after. I honestly kept waiting for it to happen, but it didn't. Not this series, not this time. He played well, kept his head on straight, and completely outplayed one of the best Koreans in the world.
Often times Idra makes himself hard to root for what with the constant balance whine, premature gg's, BM, etc. but I can't help myself. And it's not for my secret love of zerg (I play Terran) or my desire to root for the foreigner, it's his unbelievable skill and talent and KNOWING that when he takes that next small step in his mental game he will be the force we all know he is capable of. His series vs. Puma was a small window into that Idra and I hope he continues on.
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On October 04 2011 23:24 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:21 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:12 Roggay wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. You completely forgot Haypro OMFG HAYDER IM SO SORRY!!!!!!!! >< god thats so awful >< HayprO didnt get any big results however he consistently does well in TL's team leagues, even taking a game off of SlayerS :D I'm sorry Hayder, I <3 you! To be fair Jinro/TLO's results are not recent, they've been slumping hard for longer than Idra. Sure the TL roster is playing better than Strifecro/Axslav/Incontrol/Lz but you can't fault EG for at least being loyal to their team (or waiting for contracts to expire, lol).
What are you implying about TL's loyalty? LOL
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On October 04 2011 23:16 mordk wrote:
I'd consider myself an Idra hater, the reasons being:
1.- He's got a TERRIBLE attitude, absolutely horrible mindset. He doesn't have a champion's mind AND gets mindless praise for that.
2.- He's a balance whiner, and one with terrible arguments and extremely close-minded. Sometimes it's so ridiculous it reminds me of schizophrenic delusions.
3.- He believes there's only one way to play the game, and if it doesn't work he's incapable of realizing his own mistakes or his opppnent's good play and instead blames it on the game. Seriously dude?
4.- He's a sore loser, with pathetic frustration tolerance problems. AND he's a terrible winner, uncapable of even respecting his opponents.
5.- He BMs way too much and in really disgusting forms and context. The classic example is comparing him to MC at MLG. You could tell MC was being a showman while Idra was just being a jackass.
6.- Finally, and worst of all, he has the most annoying fans ever, who will make a huge deal and completely overhype anything decent he does while at the same time praise him for behaving like a spoiled child. Disgusting.
All that said, he's a good SC player, he understands the game at a truly high level, which makes his attitude problems even worse since he could be so much better without them. I also realize how full of hate this post is, but you asked, I'm giving my thoughts.
I can't agree more. I would not say I am an IdrA hater, but I don't like the points about him you just said. It is mostly his way out of the game why I dislike him. Also the fans... I can't stand them.
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idra is no bad player
his views on zerg balance sometimes are just very whiny
he has the same problem as ronaldo or messi: retarded fanboys that make other people want him to lose for them to shut up
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On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN.
Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four.
Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway.
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The guy is incredibly entertaining. I don't see any problem having this kind of figure in the community. It can make match ups interesting. Rivalries and such.
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R0YAL you re right he didn't give up after his two loses in the Poolplay and he ggs agains Jinrow except Jinrow went for an timing push. He is getting better
( When did he thated sb last time?)
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On October 04 2011 23:31 Madder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:24 FairForever wrote:On October 04 2011 23:21 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:12 Roggay wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. agreed. Jinro : "I would quit SC before I joined EG" TLO: "I would cut my throat before joining EG" "I will get better then HuK for TL" talk about loyalty? HuK didnt want to leave Liquid, but the fact that the offer EG made him was out of this world good convinced him. After all, even progamers need to think about their futures. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. You completely forgot Haypro OMFG HAYDER IM SO SORRY!!!!!!!! >< god thats so awful >< HayprO didnt get any big results however he consistently does well in TL's team leagues, even taking a game off of SlayerS :D I'm sorry Hayder, I <3 you! To be fair Jinro/TLO's results are not recent, they've been slumping hard for longer than Idra. Sure the TL roster is playing better than Strifecro/Axslav/Incontrol/Lz but you can't fault EG for at least being loyal to their team (or waiting for contracts to expire, lol). What are you implying about TL's loyalty? LOL
agreed
Jinro: I would quit SC before joining EG
TLO: I would slice my throat before joining EG/I will get better then HuK for TL
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IMO, this topic serves no purpose. Everybody knows/love/hate Idra for who he is, and there is no point discussing about it.
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The reason I like IdrA as a fan is because of how entertaining I find him, and I'm a zerg and there isn't any other zerg I would rather root for.
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Do we really need another one of these threads...
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On October 04 2011 21:28 darkscream wrote:
haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
Theres a big difference between faking it and Idra.
He is an egotistical maniac who BM's everything because HE cant deal with the fact the he lost. He takes his issues out on others because he cant bear to deal with his inner issues.
He is BM, disgustingly rude, crude and the rest and you wonder why people dont like him? I wonder why people DO like him.
Not to say that idra vs puma was fixed or he isnt a "good" (not fing brilliant by a long shot) player.
and i believe idra fans have childish dispositions where they find his attitude funny. Much like my former high school friends (anyone remember "happy slapping"? or more commonly "your mum x x x"?) where its extremely hillarious to insult and cause others grief.
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do we "really" need another IdrA thread? how can you people not get bored by this?
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How is this thread still open?
StarCraft 2 is now popular enough where people and teams are polarizing. Examples of which are the anti-EG sentiment post HuK's recruitment, or random IdrA bashing- all of these are generally speaking without a legitimate reason behind them. This is popular in professional sports too, think about how New Yorker's hate the Boston Red Sox and their fans, or Da Bears and the Green Bay Packers. In popular athletic or now eCompetition you will get blind hatred.
If you don't like IdrA, fine. Lots of people don't- almost none of which actually know him.
These threads only really exist because the OP either
a) Couldn't handle the IdrA bashing in another thread- where his retorts weren't listened to or given credence- so he made his own "you're wrong IdrA is awesome" thread.
OR
b) He couldn't handle the blind IdrA support- nobody would listen to why he thinks IdrA's a shithead- so he made his own "IdrA blows" thread.
Think back on EVERY single IdrA related thread, their cause can be attributed to one of these two things. For the love of god close this stupid thread, and keep discussion like this to his fanclub (that way the idiots who go on bashing him can just get banned and save us all some time and brain cells)
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I've got mixed feelings about Idra, on the one hand I think that compared to other top Zerg players, his game mechanics are right up there, definitely one of the top Zerg in the world right now (but not the best). However, on the other hand, he's rude, arrogant, BM, whatever you want to call him (granted, he's got a lot more mannered, less argumentative, etc. recently, so good for him!). Another reason I think that he isn't quite the best is because he rarely tries out different builds, which, to me, doesn't make sense, since when he DOES try a different build, he usually pulls a win out of it. His standard of play is EASILY high enough to effectively create and test different builds, he just doesn't, and I can't understand why.
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On October 04 2011 23:42 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:28 darkscream wrote:
haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
Theres a big difference between faking it and Idra. He is an egotistical maniac who BM's everything because HE cant deal with the fact the he lost. He takes his issues out on others because he cant bear to deal with his inner issues. He is BM, disgustingly rude, crude and the rest and you wonder why people dont like him? I wonder why people DO like him. Not to say that idra vs puma was fixed or he isnt a "good" (not fing brilliant by a long shot) player. and i believe idra fans have childish dispositions where they find his attitude funny. Much like my former high school friends (anyone remember "happy slapping"? or more commonly "your mum x x x"?) where its extremely hillarious to insult and cause others grief.
agreed, people make everything always so black and white. You can be very outspoken and blunt without being as much as an ass he is sometimes. ( note: he also has his good moments like on sotg when he's not talking about balance )
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On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway.
back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG.
TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups.
this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well.
Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th,
Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included),
TLO has had two 5th places in MLG,
HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG
Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc.
HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended
Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG
inversely, let's look at EG
Axslav got 4th at IPL
DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe)
iNcontroL got 4th at MLG
IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC
HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC)
PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM
Machine got 15th at MLG
StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG.
see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues?
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I am not an Idra hater, but I did hate it when people wouldn't agree that lately he has been in a slump. His results up till now have been very low for a player of his standard. A true fan should be able to accept he was in a slump but his day will come again and not rage there face off and argue that he is still a top zerg, which a few weeks ago he wasn't.
I'm glad he took it, even as a protoss fan and wanting elfi to go all the way it is always good to see a player come out of a slump to get a win. That is what this game and community is about, and its great. Like I hope iNcontrol will soon get his chance soon.
Also from all this rage talk, yes people like him and destiny do rage and BM to much. But every sport has bad guys, even in the most highly paid sports. It adds character to the scene, the only problem is the followers becoming like them, instead of just liking there style and ignoring the BM. I will have to say though Destiny has changed lately and I have actually started watching his stream again due to this. He seems more professional, maybe due to these interviews and Red Bull lan invite, and missing his col team mates that he has changed...still someone who will rage and BM, but no where near as much as normal and hopefully will become the "naughty player" for some top team.
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Congrats IdrA.
I'm so happy to see Americans do well at events. We need heroes to cheer for, go team Evil Geniuses!
+ Show Spoiler +the whole thing was setup once they were both guaranteed top 4. They knew if IdrA beat PuMa it would be a foreigner final only. SirScoots purposely asked PuMa to drop the games versus IdrA. There was no way they could have gotten 1st & 2nd place anyways, so they took the slight risk that IdrA could have lost to elfi just so they could see Slasher get his hair cut. Thanks SirScoots! We all wanted to see it. Everything worked out perfectly for EG and the fans <3 /rant ^_^
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On October 04 2011 23:42 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:28 darkscream wrote:
haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
Theres a big difference between faking it and Idra. He is an egotistical maniac who BM's everything because HE cant deal with the fact the he lost. He takes his issues out on others because he cant bear to deal with his inner issues. He is BM, disgustingly rude, crude and the rest and you wonder why people dont like him? I wonder why people DO like him. Not to say that idra vs puma was fixed or he isnt a "good" (not fing brilliant by a long shot) player. and i believe idra fans have childish dispositions where they find his attitude funny. Much like my former high school friends (anyone remember "happy slapping"? or more commonly "your mum x x x"?) where its extremely hillarious to insult and cause others grief.
To me, you are the one coming out as childish.
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Idra won MLG Dallas. Dallas being the event that made Huk so populer with the "dont wrry thats halo" comment. Might wanna update your list Plague.
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On October 04 2011 23:54 chip789 wrote:
Idra won MLG Dallas. Dallas being the event that made Huk so populer with the "dont wrry thats halo" comment. Might wanna update your list Plague.
Jinro won MLG Dallas, Idra won MLG DC, but you're correct, I updated it, i also added that HuK and Ben did really well at Raleigh
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Well, whether it's intentional or not, his bm is genius. He stirs up controversy, thus putting the spotlight on him, thus increasing his viewership and ultimately, his money flow. I say who cares that people hate him, we don't need everyone to love him, what we need is E-Sports to get the attention it deserves, and a good controversy is always the way.
If Idra's bm is not so intentional, and he truly just is an "egomaniac" (whatever that means, and why is this a bad thing, if so?), I say so what. He's a good player, and he is one of the few players who embraces his humanity and refuses to pretend he's a Vulcan. Emotions and learning are tied, by all cognitive theories, and if something pisses you off, acknowledge it, seek a solution, have an outlet for it. Don't just bottle it up, and console yourself that at least you're a good person and didn't bm.
One thing I will say is this: Think Dungeons & Dragons alignment system for a moment (2 dimensions: good vs evil, lawful vs chaotic). There are two types of BM players (perhaps more, but bare with me for my analogy):
The Chaotic Evil BM SC2 player: These are the assholes you see on ladder, never played against before, and you say, "glhf", to which they reply, "Fuck you, fuck everything you hold dear, I'm gonna anally rape you in this game, and then afterwards find where you live and come do it in RL."
The Lawful Evil BM SC2 player: These guys are BM, but only if they have a reason, i.e. you seemed to win by luck, or you did something exploitative (in their eyes) but on first encounter, they're likely to wish you glhf as well, and afterwards as well, if they consider you an honorable opponent.
To me, Idra falls in the Lawful category, and so he has my respect.
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he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy
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On October 04 2011 23:53 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:42 Capped wrote:On October 04 2011 21:28 darkscream wrote:
haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
Theres a big difference between faking it and Idra. He is an egotistical maniac who BM's everything because HE cant deal with the fact the he lost. He takes his issues out on others because he cant bear to deal with his inner issues. He is BM, disgustingly rude, crude and the rest and you wonder why people dont like him? I wonder why people DO like him. Not to say that idra vs puma was fixed or he isnt a "good" (not fing brilliant by a long shot) player. and i believe idra fans have childish dispositions where they find his attitude funny. Much like my former high school friends (anyone remember "happy slapping"? or more commonly "your mum x x x"?) where its extremely hillarious to insult and cause others grief. To me, you are the one coming out as childish.
probably because your ability to comprehend is clouded by your love for idra?
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IdrA is fun, I don't cheer for or against him but he is a fun and maybe needed figure in the scene. But I do cheer for PuMa and now I'm sad ): .
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On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy
There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama.
I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass 
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On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass
He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian.
IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though)
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i dont have negative feelings towards idra at all. IdrA is a character and a personality. the fact that he is one of the most outspoken bad mannered people is fucking awesome. if everyone had the same manner as someone like Sheth(who is like, the exact opposite of IdrA) then aspects from outside the game would be boring and stale. i think the game needs that asshole to stir shit up every once in a while.
he isnt a bad player, he has a really long history of success in BW and SC2. everyone slumps now and then. if im correct, Boxer isnt doing so hot right now either, does that make him a bad player too? if he beat PUMA at IEM, who the fuck are you to say that he doesnt deserve it? EG has been practicing pretty damn hard in their new house for several weeks now, maybe IdrA just finally got out of his slump and metagamed his teammate. imo, when other people can say they beat PUMA 'fairly' then they cna bitch about IdrA doing it. until then, no one cares about their opinion.
yeah his fans can be dumb. ill quote earlier. "most of my fans are pretty retarded"-Idra
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On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though)
I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O
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On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O
Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something.
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Idra's match-up problem is not ZvP, it's Idra v Idra's mind! The guy tilts WAY too easily to be a serious contenter at the top level, and it hurts him even more that he thinks there's only one legitimate way to play the game (macro up to 200/200 army w/ at least 4 bases each and then fight). If he could get over his stupid mental issues and just use his super solid mechanics to his best ability and practice his ass off then I think he could be on the level of some top Koreans. But he never has shown any signs that this will happen. He just constantly QQs and never analyzes how he may have messed up and can improve his game. He hurts his own practice by not analyzing but rather blaming everything on balance, and subsequently practices less because he's in a bad mental state. It just comes down to the fact that it's all in Idra's head. I rooted for him every time he played back in GSL because he was a foreigner and I love to see foreigners win. But then he left when he was finally looking like he could make a push to a finals and he's just gotten worse and worse since leaving Korea. Hopefully him going back to train helps, but until he fixes his mental problems it's not going to happen in my opinion...
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On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something.
I'd guess that KiWi cannon rushed him once.
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On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something.
well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD
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On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD
Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P
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On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues?
Do you really belive what you just wrote?
Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret
And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all.
User was warned for this post
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On October 04 2011 23:16 mordk wrote:
I'd consider myself an Idra hater, the reasons being:
1.- He's got a TERRIBLE attitude, absolutely horrible mindset. He doesn't have a champion's mind AND gets mindless praise for that.
2.- He's a balance whiner, and one with terrible arguments and extremely close-minded. Sometimes it's so ridiculous it reminds me of schizophrenic delusions.
3.- He believes there's only one way to play the game, and if it doesn't work he's incapable of realizing his own mistakes or his opppnent's good play and instead blames it on the game. Seriously dude?
4.- He's a sore loser, with pathetic frustration tolerance problems. AND he's a terrible winner, uncapable of even respecting his opponents.
5.- He BMs way too much and in really disgusting forms and context. The classic example is comparing him to MC at MLG. You could tell MC was being a showman while Idra was just being a jackass.
6.- Finally, and worst of all, he has the most annoying fans ever, who will make a huge deal and completely overhype anything decent he does while at the same time praise him for behaving like a spoiled child. Disgusting.
All that said, he's a good SC player, he understands the game at a truly high level, which makes his attitude problems even worse since he could be so much better without them. I also realize how full of hate this post is, but you asked, I'm giving my thoughts.
1. He is not praised for his mindset, and he is aware of it being a bad asset for his career.
2. He's honest about his opinions, and I wonder if you have heard the discussion between him and day9? Day9 couldn't come up with anything against what Greg had to say. Perhaps you just do not hear what you do not want to hear.
3. He knows there are other ways but does not think they requirre as much skill, he wants a game that reflects skill, he does not think a 7 pool requirres skill - so it's the games fault (or the opponent of course)
4. Much of his disrespect is very different IRL. It's a game, there's a difference, though he is a sore loser and though he does not show his respect, it would not suit his personality very well now would it.
5. He's very honest. If you want to know what being BM is like, go watch IdrA vs CombatEX. You'll see who's BM.
6. And he also has haters like you, because of it
Everyone are popular for different reasons, and fans of all players overhype.
Would you expect me as an IdrA fan, not to defend him or hype about what he does? If I didn't, I would be a bad fan in my humble opinion.
Thanks for giving him at least a little credit, but your post is filled to the brim with hate. Of course, the OP asked, but here goes my humble defence :-)
I hope you were not offended in any way.
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8748 Posts
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
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On October 05 2011 00:12 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues? Do you really belive what you just wrote? Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all.
his main pont was that results wise eg is not really better than tl
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So much hate on idra's attitude.
IIRC majority of pros agree that idra in game and idra IRL are completely different people in terms of attitude.
also I think many people are taking idra from earlier in the year and saying thats exactly how he thinks right now. (The days of taking 2 big balls of army and smashing them together ZvP )
I don't know , sometimes I feel idra is a bit over the top with his lack of respect for players ( the cruncher handshake incident was funny though ) I don't know what idra has really done recently to deserve so much flak
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Um.. what? If anything, people constantly overrate him.
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On October 05 2011 00:01 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 23:53 Roggay wrote:On October 04 2011 23:42 Capped wrote:On October 04 2011 21:28 darkscream wrote:
haters gonna hate
when you are as good as idra you can be very outspoken, caustic and blunt. most people dont like that, they want total douchebag mannerbear sponsor suckups. i personally do not like anyone who puts on a fake 'tv friendly' personality.
Theres a big difference between faking it and Idra. He is an egotistical maniac who BM's everything because HE cant deal with the fact the he lost. He takes his issues out on others because he cant bear to deal with his inner issues. He is BM, disgustingly rude, crude and the rest and you wonder why people dont like him? I wonder why people DO like him. Not to say that idra vs puma was fixed or he isnt a "good" (not fing brilliant by a long shot) player. and i believe idra fans have childish dispositions where they find his attitude funny. Much like my former high school friends (anyone remember "happy slapping"? or more commonly "your mum x x x"?) where its extremely hillarious to insult and cause others grief. To me, you are the one coming out as childish. probably because your ability to comprehend is clouded by your love for idra?
I'm really happy you took the time to give me a perfect example of what I meant, thanks.
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On October 05 2011 00:15 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:12 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues? Do you really belive what you just wrote? Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all. his main pont was that results wise eg is not really better than tl
I would have to disagree, and besides, the arguement is about who has better players, and i think its pretty safe to say idra/puma/huk/demuslim are all better then anyone on tl, apart from maybe hero, but we havent seen much of him yet.
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On October 05 2011 00:15 kurrysauce wrote:
So much hate on idra's attitude.
IIRC majority of pros agree that idra in game and idra IRL are completely different people in terms of attitude.
and what does that prove about the countless fans who say he is honest and not fake? 
yup, that they're dumb and misguided
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I think Idras behavior increased quiet a bit. But during the first half year of sc2 + the beta. He got quiet a long list of bad mannerism. And he still is quiet provoking in interviews. Most of the time it sounds like he won because his opponent was just plain bad, otherwise he could have never won with Zerg. Another point are his fans, they do a good job of keeping the image we have from Idra in our mind.
If Idra will have some more public appearances without doing some idra moves again, he should be fine. (not that i think he cares in anyway about that).
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
Careful there. The only reason you can live off gamming is because of the community, and the fans that pay to watch you.
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On October 05 2011 00:18 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:15 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 00:12 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues? Do you really belive what you just wrote? Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all. his main pont was that results wise eg is not really better than tl I would have to disagree, and besides, the arguement is about who has better players, and i think its pretty safe to say idra/puma/huk/demuslim are all better then anyone on tl, apart from maybe hero, but we havent seen much of him yet.
well, im not even gonna bother with you anymore since you're clearly immature and the only thing you're interested in is a flame war.
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I think there's exactly 1 person in the world that neither hates nor adores IdrA. That's me,
I wonder why it's so hard for people to see this guy, his strengths and weaknesses from a neutral perspective.
The only solution is just to not care about anybody elses opinion of him, because that always makes me angry when i read that
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On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P
hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once
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On October 05 2011 00:18 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:15 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 00:12 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues? Do you really belive what you just wrote? Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all. his main pont was that results wise eg is not really better than tl I would have to disagree, and besides, the arguement is about who has better players, and i think its pretty safe to say idra/puma/huk/demuslim are all better then anyone on tl, apart from maybe hero, but we havent seen much of him yet.
dude he was comparing results. he said that sheth beat idra, which is true, also it's true that record is in idra's favor
considering that most of huk's/puma's results come before they joined eg, and that saying for example jinro's results are ancient is useless, since 70% of idra's results are ancient too, he's pretty much right, eg is not better result wise
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
So you dont care about Fans and Community?
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On October 05 2011 00:22 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:18 _Repo wrote:On October 05 2011 00:15 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 00:12 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues? Do you really belive what you just wrote? Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all. his main pont was that results wise eg is not really better than tl I would have to disagree, and besides, the arguement is about who has better players, and i think its pretty safe to say idra/puma/huk/demuslim are all better then anyone on tl, apart from maybe hero, but we havent seen much of him yet. dude he was comparing results. he said that sheth beat idra, which is true, also it's true that record is in idra's favor considering that most of huk's/puma's results come before they joined eg, and that saying for example jinro's results are ancient is useless, since 70% of idra's results are ancient too, he's pretty much right, eg is not better result wise
the worst part is he clearly, and firmly believes im trying to rag/hate on EG or IdrA when I'm not. I may not be an IdrA fan but I respect him, I am a HuK fan, an iNcontroL fan and a fan of DeMusliM. I don't care much for PuMa, but i do respect his skills.
I am a fan of Team Liquid, and he thinks that means I must hate EG or something
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On October 05 2011 00:18 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:15 kurrysauce wrote:
So much hate on idra's attitude.
IIRC majority of pros agree that idra in game and idra IRL are completely different people in terms of attitude.
and what does that prove about the countless fans who say he is honest and not fake? yup, that they're dumb and misguided
Honest about what?
All I know is , I'm gonna enjoy my sc2 with or without idra's drama. If people are really gonna make such a big deal about what he said 10 months ago which has 0 relevancy right now , I feel really sad for them.
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On October 05 2011 00:23 SoapSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. So you dont care about Fans and Community?
Should celebrities care about the tabloids?
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since he was such a bad loser, i dont want to see him win anything anymore...
but i love to see him losing xD - dunno why, maybe because of his great assholeness
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On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once
=( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see...
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
I like how you thought it was a good idea to post this to the community ^__^ Thx for keeping it real!
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
LOL
well im gonna post anyway.. >.<
Great games, i really enjoy watching IdrA play and i think it was a well deserved win.
Dont know whats with the i hate "X person thing" on all the forums but whatever, hes a great player and im looking forward for some more epic games.
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People are going to hate no matter what.
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I like Idra when he plays well and doesn't die to simple rushes or his own mental blockage. If he keeps playing well I will start to like his BM also becuase most of the time he is honest about players and most of the time true. I think even his BM drives ppl foward to prove to him how they can beat him (atleast thats my opinion). The only thing i dislike is his balance whine but still thats his mental blockage so....nobody is perfect.
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On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see...
Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3
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It wasn't as bad as before actually. A couple of months ago the hater-fan ratio would've been much much worse.
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idra strikes me as a classic example of an entity learner, as discribed in josh waitzkin's "art of learning". he see's himself as better, and can't quite cope with someone he deems "worse" than him beating him.
personally i think he's entertaining, he just really really needs to work on his mental state during games.
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On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:59 MisterTea wrote:
he's a bad mannered cock who calls everyone bad even players that beat him legimately not because he played bad but because the game is broken or they do a timing attack (which is not the right way to paly the game)
hate the guy There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3
I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower.
<3
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The IdrA haters who always thought he was overhyped were quite satisfied because he didn't play up to his best the last few tournaments and now he won vs Puma, his teammate and one of his trainingspartners (consider this an advantage for IdrA) and those haters are angry again because he made a "comeback" against a korean. People will never stop bitching and I think IdrA deals with them the right way: IGNORE THEM! He shouldn't take shit from random people on the net who think they know him or his trainingseffort or his style enough to judge him.
And of course he isn't the same in real life as ingame. I had the honor to meet with some pros this summer and it's surprising who nice they are in real life. Don't even talk about the real person if you never met him face to face and talked a word with him.
I for example think that mTwNaruto is a whiny bitch judging from his stream QQ when losing and his "cocky GM behaviour" etc. but I'm always open-minded when it comes to the real person (who organized some sc2 events in germany and seems to care about the community a lot <3 ). He might be a nice guy who invites you to a drink when you meet him in a bar. Who knows? ^^ So what did we learn? Never judge someone just by watching his play and some on camera moments.
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On October 05 2011 00:21 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Careful there. The only reason you can live off gamming is because of the community, and the fans that pay to watch you.
His point is that when it comes to subject likes these its retarded to even try to must a proper response to anything because everyone has an opinion on everybody and everything.
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
that's bad PR man, really bad PR.
Btw IdrA haters are annoying, but those especially who dismiss his skill and achievments. hate on his manners all they long, i couldnt care less, but when you bash on his sc-skills you're just making a joke out of yourself
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If someone is a douche, he could be the greatest player ever. But people would still think of him as a douche. People see negativity and tend to highlight that rather than the positive traits about someone.
I personally think he is a great player, and I'm glad to see his hard work payoff.
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On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:01 PlaGuE_R wrote:[quote] There's no reason to hate him. I personally believe that IdrA plays it up because his fans are (these are his own words from SotG) morons who only like drama. I really would like to meet IdrA in real life, it's my belief that Greg is a great guy despite IdrA being kind of an ass He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian. IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3
I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D
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On October 05 2011 00:24 kurrysauce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:18 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 00:15 kurrysauce wrote:
So much hate on idra's attitude.
IIRC majority of pros agree that idra in game and idra IRL are completely different people in terms of attitude.
and what does that prove about the countless fans who say he is honest and not fake? yup, that they're dumb and misguided Honest about what? All I know is , I'm gonna enjoy my sc2 with or without idra's drama. If people are really gonna make such a big deal about what he said 10 months ago which has 0 relevancy right now , I feel really sad for them.
well reading around in TL threads for a time, a very frequent compliment on idra is that he is "honest" and when he acts like an ass, a lot of his fans think "wow sheth is fake! being nice sucks! idra is the real deal!". read idiocy like this in countless posts
maybe a good example is to compare to the effect of the show house m. d. many people like that character because he is sarcastic/rude/ etc all the time. the difference is, he is a genius, he is funny, saves hundreds of lives, and basicly everyone finds him insufferable.
the whole idra phenomenon is basicly just acting like an asshole for no reason. not shaking your opponents' hand because you don't like his playstyle, etc... no real justification, but it works on people for drawing attention. and what kind of people are these? for majority of humans being nice/kind is a good attribute. what does it tell about a person when he thinks that being a jackass is a nice attribute? and they don't just find idra funny or something. they praise and adore him for it. that's what really really odd
and if he is in truth a nice person than he the whole thing is an act, it's fake and fans are just misguided.
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
This is what you must do in order to be successfull in a highly competitive "sport" like starcraft 2 or any other sport.
They are "public figures" since they have fans and haters, if you are a player and you open TL and read the comments everyday you will go insane with all the hate..
So yeah tyler you are right, you can love your fans and do videos, iviews, promotions, signings, etc.. but in the end of the day you can't care about what people you don't know think about you and your game. For criticism you have family, friends, teammates, coaches and managers..
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On October 04 2011 23:16 mordk wrote:
I'd consider myself an Idra hater, the reasons being:
1.- He's got a TERRIBLE attitude, absolutely horrible mindset. He doesn't have a champion's mind AND gets mindless praise for that.
2.- He's a balance whiner, and one with terrible arguments and extremely close-minded. Sometimes it's so ridiculous it reminds me of schizophrenic delusions.
3.- He believes there's only one way to play the game, and if it doesn't work he's incapable of realizing his own mistakes or his opppnent's good play and instead blames it on the game. Seriously dude?
4.- He's a sore loser, with pathetic frustration tolerance problems. AND he's a terrible winner, uncapable of even respecting his opponents.
5.- He BMs way too much and in really disgusting forms and context. The classic example is comparing him to MC at MLG. You could tell MC was being a showman while Idra was just being a jackass.
6.- Finally, and worst of all, he has the most annoying fans ever, who will make a huge deal and completely overhype anything decent he does while at the same time praise him for behaving like a spoiled child. Disgusting.
All that said, he's a good SC player, he understands the game at a truly high level, which makes his attitude problems even worse since he could be so much better without them. I also realize how full of hate this post is, but you asked, I'm giving my thoughts.
dead on what I think about him. It sums it up very well.
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On October 05 2011 00:22 TigerKarl wrote:
I think there's exactly 1 person in the world that neither hates nor adores IdrA. That's me,
I wonder why it's so hard for people to see this guy, his strengths and weaknesses from a neutral perspective.
The only solution is just to not care about anybody elses opinion of him, because that always makes me angry when i read that
I fully agree with you here.
IdrA showed us a few fantastic games in IEM and I think that as long as IdrA is active in SC2 he'll be one of our strongest foreigners. It is what it is.
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Yeah I dunno about idra hate. I think that like him, most of his fanboys are just a little too thin-skinned.
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"You're such a hater" Is such a silly american thing to say, especially after said person has acted like a fucking asshole for his entire career. And people who think it's an act are just incredibly naive.
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IdrA is a good player.
He could be an awesome guy outside this game; we could be best friends, hell if I know. But you guys must not get it, IdrA "haters" don't hate him because he is good, they "hate" him because he cannot take losses / wins and his attitude in game is not the best. IdrA is not a very charismatic player and his balance rants really are just there because he doesn't want to accept that the Brood War, 10 years playing this game, won so many tournaments, champion, foreign hero zerg is losing to people who are "new" to the game, such as HuK or Minigun. Either way he is a great player, he def shows results, but he doesn't have the best attitude.
Just stating my opinion, thanks. HF Gaming.
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idra played incredibly well vs puma
i haven't seen his elfi series yet
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On October 05 2011 00:36 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:03 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
He'd look down on you because he's an egomaniac. Perhaps he likes his fans from far away.. At least he looks down on me because I'm French Canadian.
IdrA says he has no problem with Canadians but there's "something wrong" with us French-speaking folks. (I guess you don't qualify though) I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3 I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D
Yes, yes indeed. Montreal women are beautiful as well, luckily! Your food is better though. =D
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On October 05 2011 00:35 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:21 Apolo wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Careful there. The only reason you can live off gamming is because of the community, and the fans that pay to watch you. His point is that when it comes to subject likes these its retarded to even try to must a proper response to anything because everyone has an opinion on everybody and everything.
I agree with you but "we know the community is worthless" and "ignore everything you say" makes it sound much more general then that. Maybe poor word choice, but who cares.
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring
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On October 05 2011 00:35 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:21 Apolo wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Careful there. The only reason you can live off gamming is because of the community, and the fans that pay to watch you. His point is that when it comes to subject likes these its retarded to even try to must a proper response to anything because everyone has an opinion on everybody and everything.
His point should of been better illustrated then. All I got from that post is that Liquid Tyler thinks that the comunity which pays his bills is worthless and the pros ignore us.
Maybe we should ignore you guys for a while see how smug you are then.
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On October 05 2011 00:41 CabelD wrote:IdrA is a good player. He could be an awesome guy outside this game; we could be best friends, hell if I know. But you guys must not get it, IdrA "haters" don't hate him because he is good, they "hate" him because he cannot take losses / wins and his attitude in game is not the best. IdrA is not a very charismatic player and his balance rants really are just there because he doesn't want to accept that the Brood War, 10 years playing this game, won so many tournaments, champion, foreign hero zerg is losing to people who are "new" to the game, such as HuK or Minigun. Either way he is a great player, he def shows results, but he doesn't have the best attitude. Just stating my opinion, thanks. HF Gaming.
i think most of the people don't have a problem with anyone being a fan of idra's play. the problem is being a fan of his personality
and btw he is not charismatic, probably you meant a different word
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I dont get it, whats the drama about?
Are people forgetting that Puma left KOREA and is training with a NA team now?
Of course his skill will start degrading, what else did you guys expect to happen?
Also, way to shoot yourself in the foot, Tyler
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If you hadn't yet figured out that the community sucks then, uh, welcome to the internet where every gaming community is pretty much retarted :|
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On October 05 2011 00:41 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:36 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:05 PlaGuE_R wrote:
[quote]
I'm French....how do I not qualify as a french speaking person!? O_O Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3 I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D Yes, yes indeed. Montreal women are beautiful as well, luckily! Your food is better though. =D
are they? I may have to visit Montreal then :D
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On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring
Tyler is pointing out how dumb the community is. Someone wins a tournament and the first thing that happens is they try to devalue the win. No matter what they say, the troll will not believe them and assume that the win was "fixed".
Or as my grandfather say, "Never argue with a drunk or a fool." A lot of the time the community fits into that group. Why waste your time worrying about it?
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I've not hated on Idra, winning the IEM was a great achievement. I do hate how he gets so much attention when he is really only top 5 foreign zergs and nothing special. He is on many shows and always front page news and on a great salary. When many other equal and if not better foreign players are struggling to get to events even. I think some of the hate people have for him is the green eyed monster because of his high profile and also wishing there favoured players that they feel more deserve the spotlight.
Also he doesnt come across like he even likes the game and is just in it for the money and i hate how he calls people retards and has no respect.
It really is hard to like a guy that bitches about every thing and calls every one a retard. I just dont get why he has fans...
Regardless though, well done Idra for winning IEM, didnt look good in the group stages but proved that foreigners can take it to the koreans and win big events. I hope this is a springboard for confidence and we see this more often.
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
Someone is a bit salty.
Why would you think it's a good idea to post this on the Community forums??
But I respect IdrA for his win, he had a crazy egotistical manner, but he's an amazing player.
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On October 05 2011 00:51 BjC wrote:
I've not hated on Idra, winning the IEM was a great achievement. I do hate how he gets so much attention when he is really only top 5 foreign zergs and nothing special. He is on many shows and always front page news and on a great salary. When many other equal and if not better foreign players are struggling to get to events even. I think some of the hate people have for him is the green eyed monster because of his high profile and also wishing there favoured players that they feel more deserve the spotlight.
Also he doesnt come across like he even likes the game and is just in it for the money and i hate how he calls people retards and has no respect.
It really is hard to like a guy that bitches about every thing and calls every one a retard. I just dont get why he has fans...
Regardless though, well done Idra for winning IEM, didnt look good in the group stages but proved that foreigners can take it to the koreans and win big events. I hope this is a springboard for confidence and we see this more often.
I love this statement. I boils down to this:
"Of all the zergs outside of Korea, which encompasses the entire world and all Starcraft players, he is only top 5. I mean seriously, that's not that impressive. He is only better than 99.7% players in the entire world. I am really only interested in that last .3% of zergs in the world."
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On October 05 2011 00:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring Tyler is pointing out how dumb the community is.
and you prove his point by actually defending what he said
well done, lol (:
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On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring
Or maybe the truth? Reading TL has become pearl diving in a sea of shit.
Some pearls are worth it tho.
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On October 05 2011 00:46 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:41 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:36 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:06 Djzapz wrote:[quote] Well you're not Canadian ... he doesn't like French-Canadians specifically because we're crazy or something. well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3 I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D Yes, yes indeed. Montreal women are beautiful as well, luckily! Your food is better though. =D are they? I may have to visit Montreal then :D
Why of course =P
Strangely my gf was imported from the US but you won't be disappointed with the locals
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On October 05 2011 00:57 LagT_T wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring Or maybe the truth? Reading TL has become pearl diving in a sea of shit. Some pearls are worth it tho.
It is probably true. Doesn't mean that Tyler should go around saying that on the community forums that his Pro Team operates.
EDIT: Not that I'm saying people should be less honest. But it's bad PR.
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It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first.
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lol love the touchy guys over what tyler said, its mostly truth...
I come here as an informative/entretaining way to learn from the game and hang out.
But i dont think this is as important as you guys think it is, i already got too much into forum related stuff and got flamed by it, wont happen again.
If you guys are so mad about stuff like this go on and make a thread on it, because thats all you can do, most of us are near invisible to pro gamers, just an extra number on the stream.
And seriously you are fooling yourself if you think you pay the bill of those gamers :D they earn money because they are good not because you "like" them.
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Mana have beaten Puma so many time (5) and people dont give a shit about it while idra who is a teamate of puma ( know his style insideout ) got hyped over 7 lair of heaven just by beating him.The next IEM which Mana gonna attend will show how Idra and EG team( maybe all NA players LOL) suck at SC2.
PS: Elfi worst match up is vZ.
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On October 05 2011 00:59 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:46 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:41 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:36 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:09 PlaGuE_R wrote:[quote] well, to be fair, we think there's something wrong with you too what's up with your weird way of butchering our gorgeous language?! >: ( !! just kidding, big <3 to my brothers from across the pond! French Hwaiting! xD Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3 I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D Yes, yes indeed. Montreal women are beautiful as well, luckily! Your food is better though. =D are they? I may have to visit Montreal then :D Why of course =P Strangely my gf was imported from the US but you won't be disappointed with the locals
importation is good sometimes :D I got to an American university and some of the US imported goods look very very good :D
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On October 05 2011 00:57 LagT_T wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring Or maybe the truth? Reading TL has become pearl diving in a sea of shit. Some pearls are worth it tho.
Quoted for truth. I think this is exactly what Tyler is getting at. As progamers they just have to focus on their game and not care what people on a forum think about them.
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On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first.
maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so
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On October 05 2011 01:03 ForlornHope wrote:
Mana have beaten Puma so many time (5) and people dont give a shit about it while idra who is a teamate of puma ( know his style insideout ) got hyped over 7 lair of heaven just by beating him.The next IEM which Mana gonna attend will show how Idra and EG team suck at SC2.
Wow... bitter much?
While Mana has shown very good results over Puma, he has also failed to win a tournament in which Puma participated. His win at IEM Cologne was nice but similar to Elfi's win over Idra in the group stages: great, but, in the overall picture, unimportant to the final results.
The other series win was in one of the Team leagues (either EGMC or the GCPL, can't remember), and I don't consider that huge either.
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
I'd say the same if I'd suck ass in every game and league i enter. The bad players are always the ones to talk the most trash.
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On October 05 2011 00:56 SKYFISH_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:50 Plansix wrote:On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring Tyler is pointing out how dumb the community is. and you prove his point by actually defending what he said well done, lol (:
I agree with him on the point that the community is mostly drama-queens with little relevant to say. I woke up this morning excited to find out that Idra won the IEM. Although I don't agree with what he says a lot of the time, but he clearly works hard and cares when he loses. I was pumped to hear that he won and wanted to see the VODs.
And then I went on TL and saw the long list of dumb. Clearly everything was fixed and Idra could not have won if "real players" were there.
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On October 05 2011 01:03 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:59 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:46 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:41 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:36 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:10 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Hey maybe if you defended your colony properly =P hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3 I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D Yes, yes indeed. Montreal women are beautiful as well, luckily! Your food is better though. =D are they? I may have to visit Montreal then :D Why of course =P Strangely my gf was imported from the US but you won't be disappointed with the locals importation is good sometimes :D I got to an American university and some of the US imported goods look very very good :D
We're drifting off topic but that's OK because hot imported goods is always a valid subject to explore.
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On October 05 2011 01:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:56 SKYFISH_ wrote:On October 05 2011 00:50 Plansix wrote:On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring Tyler is pointing out how dumb the community is. and you prove his point by actually defending what he said well done, lol (: I agree with him on the point that the community is mostly drama-queens with little relevant to say. I woke up this morning excited to find out that Idra won the IEM. Although I don't agree with what he says a lot of the time, but he clearly works hard and cares when he loses. I was pumped to hear that he won and wanted to see the VODs. And then I went on TL and saw the long list of dumb. Clearly everything was fixed and Idra could not have won if "real players" were there.
And you also conveniently ignore the actual majority of posters who were saying that talking about a fix was just silly. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your righteousness.
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On October 05 2011 00:53 KillerSOS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Someone is a bit salty. Why would you think it's a good idea to post this on the Community forums?? .
Its just like any sport, if the professionals take seriously what their fans/the "community" thinks, they are wasting their time. Starcraft is a bit different because the fans to play the game regularly, but I think even most "good" amateurs need to realize they are closer to the fat guy sitting around watching football and bitching about the play calling than they are to the players. Because of forum settings like this people think their opinions count for more than they do, when in reality most of us have no business at all talking about what a pro should or shouldn't do.
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On October 04 2011 21:36 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:30 ePdeLay wrote:
lets face it...everybody gets pissed off when they lose to players that are clearly worse. Idra is a very talented player, mechanics ftw Yeah, but a lot of people have the class to not out and insult the player and rag on their skills for beating them. It's not about, "being honest and straight forward" or whatever else people like to use when referring to IdrA, it's about not being a complete asshole. In a recent vlog, Grubby lost to someone who he said he should have been able to beat and said he was quite upset about it, not once did it seem like he was delegitimizing the other player's effort or saying he was bad. I'm not saying everyone needs to be that ultra-mannered, but if he's going to delegitimize other player's wins and call them bad, are people really wondering why others do the same to him? Why don't I go and make another thread regarding IdrA's hatred of just about every other person that beats him and how he delegitimizes their wins. It's fucking stupid that anyone can be surprised that he gets a ton of shit, he dishes a massive amount out.
This pretty much sums up my views on this. I mean I don´t ¨hate¨ idra, but seriously this thread reeks of ¨I can´t handle different opinions¨. I can tell you why people dislike idra:
-He disrespects fellow competitors and the competition itself.
- He is one of the pros who whines about balance the most
-He acts as if he was the top foreigner when he is losing to them(or was) on a frequent basis.
-He disrespects the fans of the fucking games(and let me say this, without them idra would not be living the life he has now)
-His fans are annoying as fuck(well not idras fault but oh well lol antifanboys)
That being said, I like how the guy plays. I don´t hate him or anything, I respect his skill and yeah the antifanboys are as retarded as the fanboys but that doesn´t mean there are no legit reasons to not like idra.
One thing I hope is that the same idra fans who retardedly jumped into the Cruncher bandwagon hate(delegitimizing all his play blah blah blah) are not the same people complaining about the unnecessary hate for idra.
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On October 05 2011 01:07 Carny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. I'd say the same if I'd suck ass in every game and league i enter. The bad players are always the ones to talk the most trash.
You realize Tyler's statement refers exactly to people like you right?
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On October 05 2011 01:10 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:53 KillerSOS wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Someone is a bit salty. Why would you think it's a good idea to post this on the Community forums?? . Its just like any sport, if the professionals take seriously what their fans/the "community" thinks, they are wasting their time. Starcraft is a bit different because the fans to play the game regularly, but I think even most "good" amateurs need to realize they are closer to the fat guy sitting around watching football and bitching about the play calling than they are to the players. Because of forum settings like this people think their opinions count for more than they do, when in reality most of us have no business at all talking about what a pro should or shouldn't do.
The point is that pro players from other sports are smart enough not to alienate their fanbase by calling them worthless.
Especially when you are a mediocre (or in Tyler's case just bad) player with no results.
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On October 05 2011 01:11 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:07 Carny wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. I'd say the same if I'd suck ass in every game and league i enter. The bad players are always the ones to talk the most trash. You realize Tyler's statement refers exactly to people like you right?
He has a point though... Tyler has had no results as of late, he's not really one to talk.
I'm not saying I'm any good at this game... I just love watching it.
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On October 05 2011 00:18 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:15 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 00:12 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues? Do you really belive what you just wrote? Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all. his main pont was that results wise eg is not really better than tl I would have to disagree, and besides, the arguement is about who has better players, and i think its pretty safe to say idra/puma/huk/demuslim are all better then anyone on tl, apart from maybe hero, but we havent seen much of him yet.
Show me what results Demuslim has to consider him better than Ret or Sheth, unlike him they both actually posted results. Same with Idra lately. The only players for which what you wrote is true are Puma and HuK, and I would say Ret is better than HuK. And we saw reasonably much from Hero (MLG, Code A, demolishing his WCG Korea group), especially compared to Demuslim.
If you would want to somehow decide which team is better TL and EG are so close result wise and skill wise it is impossible to decide. And best foreigner team right now is quite easily mouz.
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On October 05 2011 01:11 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:07 Carny wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. I'd say the same if I'd suck ass in every game and league i enter. The bad players are always the ones to talk the most trash. You realize Tyler's statement refers exactly to people like you right?
I was under the impression that it referred exactly to people like everyone who posts on these forums?
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I don't dislike Idra, but I don't really like him either. I do think he is an incredible player.
I just think he has some sort of ego reflex where he thinks he can't possibly lose. So if he does, it can't possibly be the way he played, it must be that the game is broken. I think if he played Protoss he would say similar things about Protoss being the weakest race. It is just some mental game he plays.
That coupled with the way he talks about the game (e.g. opponents are always abusing or playing abusively, instead of playing well and utilizing their advantages) just makes him come across as somewhat annoying. Basically he sounds like someone making a balance thread on the Battle.net forums. You can see how that would rub a lot of people the wrong way. It doesn't help that he also shows little respect for other players. And of course this:
+ Show Spoiler +
I still think he is a very talented player and I enjoyed his casts during NASL S1. As long as he isn't discussing balance/other players he also seems like a really nice guy. Congrats to him on the win.
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On October 05 2011 01:06 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:03 ForlornHope wrote:
Mana have beaten Puma so many time (5) and people dont give a shit about it while idra who is a teamate of puma ( know his style insideout ) got hyped over 7 lair of heaven just by beating him.The next IEM which Mana gonna attend will show how Idra and EG team suck at SC2. Wow... bitter much? While Mana has shown very good results over Puma, he has also failed to win a tournament in which Puma participated. His win at IEM Cologne was nice but similar to Elfi's win over Idra in the group stages: great, but, in the overall picture, unimportant to the final results. The other series win was in one of the Team leagues (either EGMC or the GCPL, can't remember), and I don't consider that huge either.
so your point is, that the final matches are the most important in a tournament? that's some captain obvious material there
you're also implying that matches that don't directly make you win a tournament don't show skill or what? because if you don't then your argument has nothing to do with skill. people play up to their skill level even if it's not the most important match in their lives. if it wasn't so you could construct yourself an argument everytime your favorite player loses and it's not a final match of something, that "it didn't matter" which would be delusional
also what kind of odd statement is that "mana failed to win a tournament in which Puma participated?" you want a list about every player who failed to win tournaments in which xy player participated in? idra's list would be quite long
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doesnt idra have the biggest fanbase of all ?? ofc theres gonna be some negativity but cmon
lol at pepole freaking when a pro(tyler) said what they think about the community for real..i bet most pros think the same they just don't say it. anything positive is for show and "good image"-
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On October 05 2011 01:08 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:03 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:59 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:46 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:41 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:36 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:22 PlaGuE_R wrote:[quote] hey, the english had better navy and we were busy fighting elsewhere. We couldn't be everywhere at once =( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3 I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D Yes, yes indeed. Montreal women are beautiful as well, luckily! Your food is better though. =D are they? I may have to visit Montreal then :D Why of course =P Strangely my gf was imported from the US but you won't be disappointed with the locals importation is good sometimes :D I got to an American university and some of the US imported goods look very very good :D We're drifting off topic but that's OK because hot imported goods is always a valid subject to explore.
Hell yeah! especially when its hot goods imported from the US or Russia...yummy XD
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On October 05 2011 01:10 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:08 Plansix wrote:On October 05 2011 00:56 SKYFISH_ wrote:On October 05 2011 00:50 Plansix wrote:On October 05 2011 00:42 Dawg_Snow wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Not sure if troll or just very bad PR/attention whoring Tyler is pointing out how dumb the community is. and you prove his point by actually defending what he said well done, lol (: I agree with him on the point that the community is mostly drama-queens with little relevant to say. I woke up this morning excited to find out that Idra won the IEM. Although I don't agree with what he says a lot of the time, but he clearly works hard and cares when he loses. I was pumped to hear that he won and wanted to see the VODs. And then I went on TL and saw the long list of dumb. Clearly everything was fixed and Idra could not have won if "real players" were there. And you also conveniently ignore the actual majority of posters who were saying that talking about a fix was just silly. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your righteousness.
Hey, those posters are champs, because its hard to shout down morons and you get a lot of hate for it. But that doesn't change the fact that Tyler is right and most pros should simply ignore the community. It's hard to find the gems in all the trash.
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:14 KillerSOS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:11 mordk wrote:On October 05 2011 01:07 Carny wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. I'd say the same if I'd suck ass in every game and league i enter. The bad players are always the ones to talk the most trash. You realize Tyler's statement refers exactly to people like you right? He has a point though... Tyler has had no results as of late, he's not really one to talk. I'm not saying I'm any good at this game... I just love watching it.
Tyler also has a point. There's so much bullshit and retarded crap going around...just look at the cruncher thread.
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His fanclub has over 1000 pages.
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On October 05 2011 01:14 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:18 _Repo wrote:On October 05 2011 00:15 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 00:12 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 23:50 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 23:33 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:20 _Repo wrote:On October 04 2011 22:15 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 22:11 _Repo wrote:
I dont think the hate is just about idra specificly, but EG aswell, there does seem a lot of hatred towards EG on these forums for some reason. I'm geussing a lot of the haters are supporters of team liquid too, the fanboyism on these forums does get a bit out of control but this is a TL website so cant really blame that.
What doesnt make sense is the same people constantly bashing certain players in EG for not performing well or calling them bad players, where as most of Teamliquid members have not really won a single meaningful game since SC2 was released. Not hating just cant stand hyprocrites. HuK won Dreamhack, Jinro won MLG and went back to back Semi finals in GSL, HuK won HSC3. Ret won Assembly. Ret won Blizz invitational, Sheth went 2nd at Blizz invitational US. not meaningful? I said "most", and sorry to break it to ya but Huk is EG now. sorry to break it to you, but HuK was in TL when he won. Now he's EG and not winning.... also "most" means that 1 out all the Liquid players didnt get results? Jinro got results, TLO got results, Ret got results, HerO got results, Sheth got results, HuK got results. Only Tyler has been struggling, and we all know that he's not in the best state of mind right now, trust that if Tyler starts hardcore practicing he'll be a beast, can't wait to see how he does after the Red Bull LAN. Jinro hasnt had results since the early days of sc2, thats one. Cant remember when tlo did anything? its been so long, thats two. ret is good yea, hero is good even tho he hasnt had results but he is very new to the team. sheth isnt bad, u forgot haypro thats three. then like u said tyler, thats four. Thats almost half the team, and the other half aint on idra's or puma's level anyway. back at you then, iNcontroL -> no results. Axslav, LzGamer, StrifeCro, and whoever else on EG thats not DeMusliM -> no results. PuMa won one tourney as EG, HuK -> no results as EG. TLO has been injured for the longest time in case you're blind and can't read. Jinro has been practicing and beat FD in the All Star matches, just because hes not participating in every online event doesnt mean you can simply write him off, after all he did beat IdrA in IEM group plays. Tyler is a consistent player that always makes it out of the open bracket at every MLG. HerO is in code A. Ret and Sheth are both better zergs then IdrA. Sheth demolishing IdrA at Blizz invitational, Ret almost always steam rolling through his MLG groups. this is a team that has 7 players who consistently place well. Tyler's best run in MLG is 4th, Jinro won an MLG, Jinro went further in GSL then any foreigner (huk included), TLO has had two 5th places in MLG, HayprO's gotten a 10th place finish at MLG Ret's finished 1st at Assembly and Blizz inv and got top 8 in MLG and also wins online tourneys agaisnt the likes of nAni and qxc. HerO is in Code A and got 6th at the first MLG he attended Sheth got 2nd at Blizz invitational and consistently does well at MLG inversely, let's look at EG Axslav got 4th at IPL DeMusliM got 3rd at IEM and placed in the top 16 at Raleigh(i believe) iNcontroL got 4th at MLG IdrA won IEM and IPL(2?) and MLG DC HuK has won nothing but placed well in Raleigh, DH, MLG and HSC3 were when he was in Millenium(MLG) and Liquid(DH HSC) PuMa got 1st at IEM (He won NASL as a TSL player) and 3rd at this IEM Machine got 15th at MLG StrifeCro got 41-48th at MLG. see? both teams perform really well. So why are you trying to hate on TL so much even though they're so consistent and perform so well in team leagues? Do you really belive what you just wrote? Didnt bother reading all of it, but ret and sheth is NOT better then idra, if u think that then your deluded. Idra beat sheth much more times then sheht beating idra, same with ret And puma won 2 tournments, 2 out of 3 tournments that hes ever attended, oh yeah then there is IEM that just finished but he got 3rd place so not bad at all. his main pont was that results wise eg is not really better than tl I would have to disagree, and besides, the arguement is about who has better players, and i think its pretty safe to say idra/puma/huk/demuslim are all better then anyone on tl, apart from maybe hero, but we havent seen much of him yet. Show me what results Demuslim has to consider him better than Ret or Sheth, unlike him they both actually posted results. Same with Idra lately. The only players for which what you wrote is true are Puma and HuK, and I would say Ret is better than HuK. And we saw reasonably much from Hero (MLG, Code A, demolishing his WCG Korea group), especially compared to Demuslim. If you would want to somehow decide which team is better TL and EG are so close result wise and skill wise it is impossible to decide. And best foreigner team right now is quite easily mouz.
Very well said, mouz is indeed tearing it up with MaNa, MorroW and ThorZain. TL and EG are very equal in results and, with EG acquiring HuK and PuMa, are now very equal in skill.
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my only problem with idra is his attitude on winning and losing.......by which i mean when he wins its because he's better and deserves the win, and when he loses its because he's better and he lost due to imbalance....rather than when he wins, acknowledging that his opponent is still very good and he just worked harder to achieve the victory, or when he loses, acknowledging that his opponent worked hard enough to beat him.
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On October 05 2011 01:07 Carny wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. I'd say the same if I'd suck ass in every game and league i enter. The bad players are always the ones to talk the most trash.
Im pretty sure he talked about people like you.
Ofc he is happy with his fans and all.
What he was saying is that there are so many haters everywhere, that in the end it's useless to worry about them.
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Your title still suggests a spoiler imo, referring to Idra makes it pretty obvious who won the whole thing, don't you think so?
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Funny, how the IdrA-Fanboy Mods bann every critism against IdrA, lol. IdrA is a BAD PLAYER, THATS A FACT! He won a bad tournament against Elfi WTF Elfi (<--- bad!).
User was temp banned for this post.
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I think nobody can say he is a bad player. The only reason people hate him is his personality. I myself find him funny and sarcastic because I don't take all he says so seriously
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ThorZain is no longer in mouz, PlaGuE_R.
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On October 05 2011 01:17 redFF wrote:
His fanclub has over 1000 pages.
brilliant analysis!
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On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so
Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him.
His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago.
Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads.
When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses.
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:21 SeaSwift wrote:
ThorZain is no longer in mouz, PlaGuE_R.
Source?
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On October 05 2011 01:14 KillerSOS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:11 mordk wrote:On October 05 2011 01:07 Carny wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. I'd say the same if I'd suck ass in every game and league i enter. The bad players are always the ones to talk the most trash. You realize Tyler's statement refers exactly to people like you right? He has a point though... Tyler has had no results as of late, he's not really one to talk. I'm not saying I'm any good at this game... I just love watching it.
I don't see at what point you make a relationship between not getting results and getting crap from the community, or between getting said results and having the 'right' to talk.
In an ideal world, crap from the community should be directed at jackasses and assholes, not at players because of their results. True fans cheer you when you win and when you lose, as long as you do your best.
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On October 05 2011 01:10 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:36 Mordiford wrote:On October 04 2011 21:30 ePdeLay wrote:
lets face it...everybody gets pissed off when they lose to players that are clearly worse. Idra is a very talented player, mechanics ftw Yeah, but a lot of people have the class to not out and insult the player and rag on their skills for beating them. It's not about, "being honest and straight forward" or whatever else people like to use when referring to IdrA, it's about not being a complete asshole. In a recent vlog, Grubby lost to someone who he said he should have been able to beat and said he was quite upset about it, not once did it seem like he was delegitimizing the other player's effort or saying he was bad. I'm not saying everyone needs to be that ultra-mannered, but if he's going to delegitimize other player's wins and call them bad, are people really wondering why others do the same to him? Why don't I go and make another thread regarding IdrA's hatred of just about every other person that beats him and how he delegitimizes their wins. It's fucking stupid that anyone can be surprised that he gets a ton of shit, he dishes a massive amount out. This pretty much sums up my views on this. I mean I don´t ¨hate¨ idra, but seriously this thread reeks of ¨I can´t handle different opinions¨. I can tell you why people dislike idra: -He disrespects fellow competitors and the competition itself. - He is one of the pros who whines about balance the most -He acts as if he was the top foreigner when he is losing to them(or was) on a frequent basis. -He disrespects the fans of the fucking games(and let me say this, without them idra would not be living the life he has now) -His fans are annoying as fuck(well not idras fault but oh well lol antifanboys) That being said, I like how the guy plays. I don´t hate him or anything, I respect his skill and yeah the antifanboys are as retarded as the fanboys but that doesn´t mean there are no legit reasons to not like idra. One thing I hope is that the same idra fans who retardedly jumped into the Cruncher bandwagon hate(delegitimizing all his play blah blah blah) are not the same people complaining about the unnecessary hate for idra.
So who do you hate? I get kind of confused with posts like this.
You hate Idra fan boys right? You hate anti Idra fans?
So really what your saying is you hate people talking about Idra.
But your post was about Idra, so you hate your self?
To be honest I don't really like people who can generalise a persons entire personality, or likes/dislikes from knowing very little information about someone. Hey you like basketball?! You racist! It makes as much sense to me as that.
So what I'm trying to say is I don't like people with a over simplified opinion. Or you in this case.
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On October 05 2011 01:19 Yannosh wrote:
Your title still suggests a spoiler imo, referring to Idra makes it pretty obvious who won the whole thing, don't you think so?
not at all, idra is known for raging after he lose.
Could had been because of that
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On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses.
The most pathetic excuse to me is the one about "I hate his fans". It always makes me laugh.
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Haven't seen Idra vs Elfi but Idra definitely played a great game vs Puma. To say Puma is a weak player or that he threw the series is just taking away from what Idra did in this semifinals-finals.
That being said, I think Idra still has a long way to go to compete vs the elite code S players that would just tear him apart. If he can commit himself to training in Korea, I could see him making a run for a code S spot and getting deep in the tourney.
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IdrA won by showing his skills in all three different matchups. That's a well deserved victory!
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btw this is all the product of the american scene, at times the community seems to be more interested in the drama and all the fluff surrounding sc2 than the game itself.
Now i'm not trying to bash americans, every countries has his fair share of haters but it is also the only scene where players are hyped due to being "personalities" rather than on their skill level and we just end up with a lot of drama/hating and players caring way too much about their perceived image (and prolly not enough about the game).
Idra is one of the guys that get a disproportionnate amount of attention (and hate) due to this but there is also no denying that he is a legit top player.
As for his mindset/bm, I think it's just silly and hurt his game more than anything but he has the merit of being honest instead of saying random bs to gain the community approval.
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On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses.
Well they rage (I would imagine) because it gets them attention (also see my spoiler :p). There are plenty of reasonable posts around, but people largely ignore them. Unfortunately most threads devolve into replying to the sensational posts while ignoring the rational ones. That isn't a TL fault, just a universal internet one.
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IdrA deserves everything he did at IEM, I have mad respect for him and his play style. We all know how he acts but people like to find anything to give out some hate so even if he didn't speak up the way he did he would still be hated.
Well played to IdrA, can't wait to see him at ESWC
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME..
But anyways, I don't know why the OP would even give a shit. It's not your problem, it's idras own problem that his behaviour pissed of a big part of the community. But I'm pretty sure he doesn't care, so why would you?
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Who cares? For every fan there is a hater. IdrA has many fans.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
why the fuck does every idra thread go so damn far,actually a more important question would be why is there always a thread about anything that idra or his fans say or do?
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On October 05 2011 01:21 SeaSwift wrote:
ThorZain is no longer in mouz, PlaGuE_R.
Since when ?
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He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good.
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:23 haffy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:10 windsupernova wrote:On October 04 2011 21:36 Mordiford wrote:On October 04 2011 21:30 ePdeLay wrote:
lets face it...everybody gets pissed off when they lose to players that are clearly worse. Idra is a very talented player, mechanics ftw Yeah, but a lot of people have the class to not out and insult the player and rag on their skills for beating them. It's not about, "being honest and straight forward" or whatever else people like to use when referring to IdrA, it's about not being a complete asshole. In a recent vlog, Grubby lost to someone who he said he should have been able to beat and said he was quite upset about it, not once did it seem like he was delegitimizing the other player's effort or saying he was bad. I'm not saying everyone needs to be that ultra-mannered, but if he's going to delegitimize other player's wins and call them bad, are people really wondering why others do the same to him? Why don't I go and make another thread regarding IdrA's hatred of just about every other person that beats him and how he delegitimizes their wins. It's fucking stupid that anyone can be surprised that he gets a ton of shit, he dishes a massive amount out. This pretty much sums up my views on this. I mean I don´t ¨hate¨ idra, but seriously this thread reeks of ¨I can´t handle different opinions¨. I can tell you why people dislike idra: -He disrespects fellow competitors and the competition itself. - He is one of the pros who whines about balance the most -He acts as if he was the top foreigner when he is losing to them(or was) on a frequent basis. -He disrespects the fans of the fucking games(and let me say this, without them idra would not be living the life he has now) -His fans are annoying as fuck(well not idras fault but oh well lol antifanboys) That being said, I like how the guy plays. I don´t hate him or anything, I respect his skill and yeah the antifanboys are as retarded as the fanboys but that doesn´t mean there are no legit reasons to not like idra. One thing I hope is that the same idra fans who retardedly jumped into the Cruncher bandwagon hate(delegitimizing all his play blah blah blah) are not the same people complaining about the unnecessary hate for idra. So who do you hate? I get kind of confused with posts like this. You hate Idra fan boys right? You hate anti Idra fans? So really what your saying is you hate people talking about Idra. But your post was about Idra, so you hate your self? To be honest I don't really like people who can generalise a persons entire personality, or likes/dislikes from knowing very little information about someone. Hey you like basketball?! You racist! It makes as much sense to me as that. So what I'm trying to say is I don't like people with a over simplified opinion. Or you in this case.
He hates people being idiots mostly. Or perhapes the world is divided between fanboys and anitfanboys of idra's?
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On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses.
i don't remember anyone saying he is a bad player. saying that he is overrated or that he's inconsistent or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that, it's just his fans that don't know the difference.
he is a good player, everyone knows that. not being a liar is not a thing to admire, not to mention that if he in fact is a nice person than he is fake. noone rages about idra. you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously
and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand
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On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good.
Lol?
He's without a doubt a top 5 foreigner, so saying he's not good is pretty much the same as saying all the foreigners are bad, right?
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On October 05 2011 01:27 BLinD-RawR wrote:
why the fuck does every idra thread go so damn far,actually a more important question would be why is there always a thread about anything that idra or his fans say or do?
Cuz his fans love to spread IdrA's sperm every where like a fucking virus.
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On October 05 2011 01:10 windsupernova wrote:
...
-He disrespects fellow competitors and the competition itself.
-He is one of the pros who whines about balance the most
-He acts as if he was the top foreigner when he is losing to them(or was) on a frequent basis.
-He disrespects the fans of the fucking games(and let me say this, without them idra would not be living the life he has now)
-His fans are annoying as fuck(well not idras fault but oh well lol antifanboys)
...
For these reasons precicely, I don't like Idra.
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On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good.
If you said this after the pool play, I'd agree with you. But I'd hardly say he's overrated now when everyone but his fans (until yesterday) felt he wasn't a top performer. Sure he got quite lucky avoiding JYP/Dimaga, but he also beat Puma (One of the top players by International ELO) and Revival, a past Code A player.
I think you'd be hard pressed to name 10 foreigners who are better than Idra right now, maybe even 5. I'd say being Top 10 outside Korea (I'm not a blind fan who thinks he's #1 or #2 or whatever) is pretty darn good.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:31 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:27 BLinD-RawR wrote:
why the fuck does every idra thread go so damn far,actually a more important question would be why is there always a thread about anything that idra or his fans say or do? Cuz his fans love to spread IdrA's sperm every where like a fucking virus.
sometimes such threads are also made by his anti fans,the point is IdrA isn't that controversial and you don't need to give him unnecessary attention.
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idra is a good zerg, I like his games.. but he's ridiculously bad mannered, which I think is just plain silly.
I didn't watch IEM, matter of fact haven't seen most of his games lately.. but those 2 games with richman, the first one were he gets 2 rax rushed, he says "fuck you" and leaves the game.. sure he's a cheesy player, but get a grip on yourself.. go practice more and try being gm for once.
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IdrA complained about terran being UP in BW. Basically he just likes to complain about whatever race he's playing, and is usually wrong. I suppose that's why he gets a lot of hate, because he deserves it for a lot of what he says, especially when it's blatantly not the case.
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On October 05 2011 01:31 Hazuc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good. Lol? He's without a doubt a top 5 foreigner, so saying he's not good is pretty much the same as saying all the foreigners are bad, right?
99% of foreigners ARE bad lol, at least compared to Code A level Koreans.
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Why is this thread still alive?
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IdrA is freakin amazing and plays pretty incredible games, whoever says he isn't good obviously hasn't seen him play recently or is a hater for no good reason.
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8748 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME..
lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions.
basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...
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On October 05 2011 01:39 ak1knight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:31 Hazuc wrote:On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good. Lol? He's without a doubt a top 5 foreigner, so saying he's not good is pretty much the same as saying all the foreigners are bad, right? 99% of foreigners ARE bad lol, at least compared to Code A level Koreans.
I was talking about the pros.
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Wow he won? o.o He got out of his group by a single game I didn't expect him to win
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He gets so much attention because he's american. You know what I'm talking about.
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On October 05 2011 01:40 beamingrobot wrote:
Why is this thread still alive?
Because people have strong pro- and anti- Idra feelings and won't shut up about it. The pro-Idra are happy because Idra has shown he's back in shape and the anti-Idra are mad because the pro-Idra are making a big deal about it.
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Idra is a top world player if he wants, but just sometimes he acts too child'ish at getting mad about things that doesn't really matters, thats his only dark side. Im not surprised he won the IEM, congrats to him btw! =)
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On October 05 2011 01:43 Hazuc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:39 ak1knight wrote:On October 05 2011 01:31 Hazuc wrote:On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good. Lol? He's without a doubt a top 5 foreigner, so saying he's not good is pretty much the same as saying all the foreigners are bad, right? 99% of foreigners ARE bad lol, at least compared to Code A level Koreans. I was talking about the pros.
I am too, the only foreigners that seem to be able to compete regularly with Code A Koreans are HuK, Naniwa, and Thorzain. Others can take a few games and maybe a series once in a blue moon, but outside of those three there's no one I'd say is "good" compared to Code A.
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On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...
It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by.
Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more.
And even funnier is the fact that you have 6000+ posts in this worthless community.
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On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...
Kinda intersting comming from a member of TL, the most important sc community website.
Oh well I know you dont care but you just earned yourself one more person that does not like you.
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I just don't like the way people act sometimes.
We just witnessed HISTORY. The games vs puma gave me nerd chills, and all people want to do is hate on idra or hate on puma for playing bad.
Puma did not play bad, idra just played ridiculously good and its sad that not everybody can appreciate what we just saw.
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On October 05 2011 01:52 laharl23 wrote:
I just don't like the way people act sometimes.
We just witnessed HISTORY. The games vs puma gave me nerd chills, and all people want to do is hate on idra or hate on puma for playing bad.
Puma did not play bad, idra just played ridiculously good and its sad that not everybody can appreciate what we just saw.
This post is an example of why people hate IdrA fanboys.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 05 2011 01:33 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good. If you said this after the pool play, I'd agree with you. But I'd hardly say he's overrated now when everyone but his fans (until yesterday) felt he wasn't a top performer. Sure he got quite lucky avoiding JYP/Dimaga, but he also beat Puma (One of the top players by International ELO) and Revival, a past Code A player. I think you'd be hard pressed to name 10 foreigners who are better than Idra right now, maybe even 5. I'd say being Top 10 outside Korea (I'm not a blind fan who thinks he's #1 or #2 or whatever) is pretty darn good.
I can try
Thorzain, Select, Mana, Huk, Nerchio, Stephano, Dimaga, Sen, Ret.
Possibly also Sheth, Demuslim, Morrow.
Funny how most of them are zergs But otherwise I agree that Idra is good anyway, even if he was top 15, it still means he is extremely good.
EDIT: oops forgot Naniwa
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On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more.
it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...
so you don't like me ?
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On October 05 2011 01:31 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses. i don't remember anyone saying he is a bad player. saying that he is overrated or that he's inconsistent or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that, it's just his fans that don't know the difference. he is a good player, everyone knows that. not being a liar is not a thing to admire, not to mention that if he in fact is a nice person than he is fake. noone rages about idra. you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand
And here's the generic personal attack reply attempting to put words into other people's mouths. I never said in any of my posts that I think IdrA is a god. In fact, I just said he's a good ZvT player. Note the difference. Posting while angry often makes people spout bullshit, and even more bullshit when they realize that their argument doesn't have much legs to stand on, and much moreso when they find people that don't agree 100% to what they're saying.
As a matter of fact, I'm not even angry. I just got into the SC2 scene during the Super Tournament and only managed to know about IdrA after checking for more info about BoxeR's transition into SC2. I found out how IdrA just used to live in Korea as a pro-gamer and went back to the US and started flopping due to lack of practice (which he admits to). I also got to know how PuMa is a great TvPer judging from how he managed to defeat MC in two tournament finals, but wasn't sure about his TvZ (which I found out later was actually pretty good, due to his effective ghost usage in late-game). Then here you guys go trying to de-legitimise IdrA's win over PuMa by saying PuMa lost on purpose.
When hating on a particular person, you narrow your vision and just focus on everything you can possibly hate about them and all responses that aren't exactly siding with you all look like they're on the opposite side of your view. It happens to a lot of people, and it's clearly happening to you, as now you are clearly convinced that I'm this huge IdrA fanboy that thinks that he is the God of Starcraft II. You are also clearly convinced that I like assholes simply because it adds to your convenience so you can hate on both IdrA and me more, without trying to even confirm if I do like assholes or not (and I don't like assholes, I just think IdrA's a blunt, slightly egotistic, yet funny dude, but no, think what you want to think because you obviously have no intent to actually find out what I think in the first place. You just want someone to target your hate on IdrA onto.)
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On October 04 2011 21:25 Malinor wrote:
His fanclub has only 1200pages, why does noone like him?
seriously... i thought it would be over 9000
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On October 05 2011 01:54 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:33 FairForever wrote:On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good. If you said this after the pool play, I'd agree with you. But I'd hardly say he's overrated now when everyone but his fans (until yesterday) felt he wasn't a top performer. Sure he got quite lucky avoiding JYP/Dimaga, but he also beat Puma (One of the top players by International ELO) and Revival, a past Code A player. I think you'd be hard pressed to name 10 foreigners who are better than Idra right now, maybe even 5. I'd say being Top 10 outside Korea (I'm not a blind fan who thinks he's #1 or #2 or whatever) is pretty darn good. I can try Thorzain, Select, Mana, Huk, Nerchio, Stephano, Dimaga, Sen, Ret. Possibly also Sheth, Demuslim, Morrow. Funny how most of them are zergs But otherwise I agree that Idra is good anyway, even if he was top 15, it still means he is extremely good.
Yet you have no proof at all, thats your opnion which is fine, but idra can take a bo3/bo5/bo7 of any of them if he plays hes best, yet it could go either way too, take sen for example, im pretty sure they have near enough the same record in beating each other.
For u to say all those are better then idra tho, shows ur just tryin to troll.
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On October 05 2011 01:40 beamingrobot wrote:
Why is this thread still alive?
For Tyler's post alone, it is worthwhile.
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On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum?
I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private.
However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me.
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On October 05 2011 01:53 ak1knight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:52 laharl23 wrote:
I just don't like the way people act sometimes.
We just witnessed HISTORY. The games vs puma gave me nerd chills, and all people want to do is hate on idra or hate on puma for playing bad.
Puma did not play bad, idra just played ridiculously good and its sad that not everybody can appreciate what we just saw. This post is an example of why people hate IdrA fanboys.
Because he is excited about his favorite player winning and that he enjoyed watching the games?
Bad choice of a post to make a example buddy.
The Idra fanboys that are irritating to people(or just me at least) are the ones that,when Idra crys wolf about "imbalance",religiously quote him and classify every one of his looses to the imbalance,they worship him as a man who does not make mistakes because he is a "macro god" and the cheese devils are out to get him.
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I wanted to make a post reply in form of a detailed analysis, but after reading the whole thread I got so fed up with the exaggeration, stubbornness and amount of hate thrown around that I am just going to say this:
IdrA won IEM, he is a great player, he speaks his mind, he can come across disrespectful, he has many fans, he has many haters, he is a human being, he likes split reason shirts.
Deal with it.
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On October 05 2011 01:16 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:08 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 01:03 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:59 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:46 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:41 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:36 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:34 Djzapz wrote:On October 05 2011 00:29 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 05 2011 00:25 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
=( you don't value beaverskin hats, I see... Nooo! we miss you, our little northern colony </3 I visited Paris once. Liked the hot chicks with rifles under the Eiffel tower. <3 I live in Paris ^_^ if you ever visit again tell me arent Parisian women frigging gorgeous? <3 :D Yes, yes indeed. Montreal women are beautiful as well, luckily! Your food is better though. =D are they? I may have to visit Montreal then :D Why of course =P Strangely my gf was imported from the US but you won't be disappointed with the locals importation is good sometimes :D I got to an American university and some of the US imported goods look very very good :D We're drifting off topic but that's OK because hot imported goods is always a valid subject to explore. Hell yeah! especially when its hot goods imported from the US or Russia...yummy XD
Bit late on my response (I'm getting back home from uni) but yes. Not too many russian girls here sadly...
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On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...
You're actually going down a really slippery slope here. E-sports is not like traditional sports in the sense that the entire fan base for the game exists in the virtual world. Its not like traditional games where fans in the real world are not necessarily participants of community discussions on online forums, However in e-sports, the opposite is actually true. If you are a fan of a particular player, chances are you came first across him in an online forum/replay site/ vod, thus essentially making you a part of the "community". In most cases, the fan is actually an integral part of the "community" as you so blithely put it.
How do you think MLG gets its millions of views? From only the "fans" and not the "community"? That's actually pretty delusional. Without the team liquid community, SC2 and MLG would be nowhere close to as big as they are today.
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IdrA gets lots of haters because people feel that they are obliged to speak hate towards him because they feel like it. It has become so common spread that such disgusting player bashing is now becoming mainstream. Look at an LR thread when IdrA loses, replace every 'Idra' with 'Morrow', then post all those messages in Morrow's fanclub - that's how bad it gets sometimes.
If people feel their thoughts of hatred deserve to be shared amongst the community, then I'm afraid the community is not in a good place.
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i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle
maybe offtopic but i think idra is pretty damn good player, underrated by many, overrated by many^^
personally i try my best not to let players personality block me from seeing their skill. just to make sure everyone understands thats just a general opinion wasnt directed to idra at all since i have nothing against him as a person lol
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On October 05 2011 02:03 Micket wrote:
IdrA gets lots of haters because people feel that they are obliged to speak hate towards him because they feel like it. It has become so common spread that such disgusting player bashing is now becoming mainstream. Look at an LR thread when IdrA loses, replace every 'Idra' with 'Morrow', then post all those messages in Morrow's fanclub - that's how bad it gets sometimes.
If people feel their thoughts of hatred deserve to be shared amongst the community, then I'm afraid the community is not in a good place.
Some would say that Idra is the one that made player bashing as popular as it is.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me.
then by all means go,find a place thats as good as TL and stay there.
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. And even funnier is the fact that you have 6000+ posts in this worthless community.
Try looking at his point of view too. The sc community in the last year and half has changed a lot and it's completely different from what tyler and many other tl veterans know as "their" community, aka the one from the bw days. Look at the number of people active during the bw days to have a rough idea: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=266721
I can see why someone who has been part of TL for so long would be disillusioned and discouraged with being part of the sc2 community.
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I'm not hating on him, but his route to winning wasn't really impressive. He beat 2 code b players(one that hasn't ever made it into GSL), Elfi, and some guy named Jim. When he starts placing high in MLG's again or Dreamhack then I'll be a bit more impressed.
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^^^ hahahahaha no comment needed
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
Wow, that's a slightly harsh thing to say isn't it? Don't let a few morons making dumb arguments/posts skew your views on the whole community. Do you even want fans after making a comment like that?
So what if some gold league players want to argue about whether IdrA is this or that, if you don't like it just don't continue to read it.
Guess the 50,000 fans that watch state of the game/MLG's and support you/other pro-gamers are worthless that help to pay your bills? Without the community, esports would simply not be were it's at right now.
-Back on topic:
IdrA performance was ground breaking. He looked extremely calm and focused. I'm so excited and happy to see an American win an event like this. I hope EG team does well in Korea, good luck.
I can't believe how much PuMa got shut down. Even in game 1 with a bunch of ghosts it still seemed so weak. I'd love to see MVP vs IdrA when he's playing this good.
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On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me.
If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted?
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On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle
Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP!
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Also, completely agree with what Tyler has said. I've been here since 2002/2003 (see account profile), and this is the only conclusion I've reached after being here nearly 10 years.
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On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP!
fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys
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Why waste time on hating on a player? Better to focus on supporing the players you like.
Be more possitive and cheer for someone to win then focus on hoping someone loose!
Let´s make this a new possitve place with less hate! WooWoo
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On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted?
Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys
monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack.
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On October 05 2011 01:57 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:31 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses. i don't remember anyone saying he is a bad player. saying that he is overrated or that he's inconsistent or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that, it's just his fans that don't know the difference. he is a good player, everyone knows that. not being a liar is not a thing to admire, not to mention that if he in fact is a nice person than he is fake. noone rages about idra. you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand And here's the generic personal attack reply attempting to put words into other people's mouths. I never said in any of my posts that I think IdrA is a god. In fact, I just said he's a good ZvT player. Note the difference. Posting while angry often makes people spout bullshit, and even more bullshit when they realize that their argument doesn't have much legs to stand on, and much moreso when they find people that don't agree 100% to what they're saying. As a matter of fact, I'm not even angry. I just got into the SC2 scene during the Super Tournament and only managed to know about IdrA after checking for more info about BoxeR's transition into SC2. I found out how IdrA just used to live in Korea as a pro-gamer and went back to the US and started flopping due to lack of practice (which he admits to). I also got to know how PuMa is a great TvPer judging from how he managed to defeat MC in two tournament finals, but wasn't sure about his TvZ (which I found out later was actually pretty good, due to his effective ghost usage in late-game). Then here you guys go trying to de-legitimise IdrA's win over PuMa by saying PuMa lost on purpose. When hating on a particular person, you narrow your vision and just focus on everything you can possibly hate about them and all responses that aren't exactly siding with you all look like they're on the opposite side of your view. It happens to a lot of people, and it's clearly happening to you, as now you are clearly convinced that I'm this huge IdrA fanboy that thinks that he is the God of Starcraft II. You are also clearly convinced that I like assholes simply because it adds to your convenience so you can hate on both IdrA and me more, without trying to even confirm if I do like assholes or not (and I don't like assholes, I just think IdrA's a blunt, slightly egotistic, yet funny dude, but no, think what you want to think because you obviously have no intent to actually find out what I think in the first place. You just want someone to target your hate on IdrA onto.)
just wanna clarify that i didn't attack you personally and didn't put words in your mouth.. what i said stands on very strong legs, just browse around any thread about idra, wasn't specifically talking about you, i was talking about a group of people that i felt you belong to
additionally i don't really get this whole hate thing. you were the one generalizing first that people are raging blindly at him, etc which is simply not true. you proceeded to defend him with stuff like he is respectful to everyone besidess protoss players and he doesn't gg too soon. omg that's something to admire;). so i am the one blindly hating, when you try to defend him that he is sometimes able to show obviously standard behavior sorry to burst your bubble, but you're the one being too subjective. i don't like him, but i don't try to belittle his achievements, you on the other hand are trying to make him seem better than he really is. and i don't like dozens of other people either, who are mannered or anything. i am able to have a bad opinion about someone without screaming with a red face.
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On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu.
I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument.
Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it.
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Maybe i am missing a thread. But i am surprised everybody is talking about IdrA and not about the train wreck that was the award ceremony. The racist and awkward host. I have not felt that uncomfortable watching anything in a long time.
The casting/commentating was terrible as well.
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On October 05 2011 02:04 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. And even funnier is the fact that you have 6000+ posts in this worthless community. Try looking at his point of view too. The sc community in the last year and half has changed a lot and it's completely different from what tyler and many other tl veterans know as "their" community, aka the one from the bw days. Look at the number of people active during the bw days to have a rough idea: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=266721I can see why someone who has been part of TL for so long would be disillusioned and discouraged with being part of the sc2 community.
You mean nice people from the BW days like the guy who posted right above you? Because I can't really see a difference.
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i dont think you know what a web forum is like... everyone is gonna hate even when there is no need. i think idra straight up outplayed puma no question
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On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack.
Thread officially derailed.
This thread doesn't seem necessary in the first place...
People have the right to love/hate whatever players they want, People also have the right to defend/trash on player they don't like. If you wanted to talk more about the whole conspiracy thing that would have been a more interesting topic if someone had some proof other than Supernova tweeting something.
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On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it.
dont listen to him janet i like to know your opinion on things
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On October 05 2011 01:53 ak1knight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:52 laharl23 wrote:
I just don't like the way people act sometimes.
We just witnessed HISTORY. The games vs puma gave me nerd chills, and all people want to do is hate on idra or hate on puma for playing bad.
Puma did not play bad, idra just played ridiculously good and its sad that not everybody can appreciate what we just saw. This post is an example of why people hate IdrA fanboys.
???
You are pathetic.
User was warned for this post
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On October 05 2011 02:05 Kiyo. wrote:
I'm not hating on him, but his route to winning wasn't really impressive. He beat 2 code b players(one that hasn't ever made it into GSL), Elfi, and some guy named Jim. When he starts placing high in MLG's again or Dreamhack then I'll be a bit more impressed.
Knew I'd find the biggest fool post.
User was warned for this post
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On October 05 2011 02:06 Nizzy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Wow, that's a slightly harsh thing to say isn't it? Don't let a few morons making dumb arguments/posts skew your views on the whole community. Do you even want fans after making a comment like that? So what if some gold league players want to argue about whether IdrA is this or that, if you don't like it just don't continue to read it. Guess the 50,000 fans that watch state of the game/MLG's and support you/other pro-gamers are worthless that help to pay your bills? Without the community, esports would simply not be were it's at right now.
On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions.
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On October 05 2011 01:59 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:54 mcc wrote:On October 05 2011 01:33 FairForever wrote:On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good. If you said this after the pool play, I'd agree with you. But I'd hardly say he's overrated now when everyone but his fans (until yesterday) felt he wasn't a top performer. Sure he got quite lucky avoiding JYP/Dimaga, but he also beat Puma (One of the top players by International ELO) and Revival, a past Code A player. I think you'd be hard pressed to name 10 foreigners who are better than Idra right now, maybe even 5. I'd say being Top 10 outside Korea (I'm not a blind fan who thinks he's #1 or #2 or whatever) is pretty darn good. I can try Thorzain, Select, Mana, Huk, Nerchio, Stephano, Dimaga, Sen, Ret. Possibly also Sheth, Demuslim, Morrow. Funny how most of them are zergs But otherwise I agree that Idra is good anyway, even if he was top 15, it still means he is extremely good. Yet you have no proof at all, thats your opnion which is fine, but idra can take a bo3/bo5/bo7 of any of them if he plays hes best, yet it could go either way too, take sen for example, im pretty sure they have near enough the same record in beating each other. For u to say all those are better then idra tho, shows ur just tryin to troll.
Of course it is an opinion, so were your statements earlier in the thread where you stated categorically that people thinking Ret or Sheth are better are deluded, also without "proof". Yes, Idra can take a series with any of those players, so what ? Recent results is what matters, consistency is what matters, who did they beat recently is what matters, potential is irrelevant when discussing results. And the only way to determine how good someone is, is to look at recent results and try to create some approximate measure of "being good".
And just looking at the score between two players is not enough to say which one of them is better in general, only which one of them is better in the match between the two. If you tried to create measure based on just results between two players, you would run into problems quickly if player A has winning record with player B, player B with player C and player C with player A, what then ?
So judging if Sen or Idra are better you need to look somewhat wider (and just so you know Sen has winning record vs Idra, but very close). You can use ELO, which is reasonably good measure of recent results and in that Idra would be even lower. ELO has its own set of problems though. My list is an attempt to create a list based on the results, but also how those results were achieved. If you really want I can tell you why I judged those players as currently better than Idra.
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On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it.
Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us.
So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack.
Monkeys are fine vs. bananas atm, but gorillas are fucking broken. No skill ez race.
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I got to know him through the first GSL seasons, where i was rooting for all the foreigners, until he opened his mouth to constantly whine and beeing disrespectful towards all opponents with his words and attitude ("I am the best, it's just game ballance"). Since that time, i enjoy him loosing.
When i'm watching sports, i want it to be about skill, fun and respect. Also i respect people with a fighting attitude. He's kinda the Anti-Hero to all that and is massively overrated.
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On October 05 2011 02:16 marttorn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack. Monkeys are fine vs. bananas atm, but gorillas are fucking broken. No skill ez race.
They need to nerf gorillas man, freaking stealing our women and screaming on towers. That spell is imba
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On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me.
a random thread about idra on a forum with a gazillion posts is the very periphery of public image... the fans only matter to the industry in the sense that they're obviously related with the watchers of streams/broadcasts etc. but devotion doesn't really matter from that aspect, you're going to watch a broadcast of a tournament anyways even if you don't like the player that told you you're stupid in a TL post, fans are basicly only good for warming their hearts. their numbers won't change a bit because of a post like that, hence he is not even slightly obligated to act like a cutypie at random people here who talk shit about everything. also this is TL's playground here. that's why your points are a bit useless... and also this is why your post is basicly only good for a ban...
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On fans, the community, and how progamers relate to them:
It's tough to receive criticism. Most of the time, when I got a bad grade on a paper, I wouldn't even read the comments. However, whenever I got a good grade, I'd gloat over the compliments. Obviously, this was bad. I didn't learn.
What really infuriated me, though, was when a teacher disagreed with me substantively on a topic which I knew more about than he did. Specifically, one time I wrote a great paper on the effectiveness of commercial search engines designed to catch students who bought their papers. I received a barely passing grade, and everything the teacher disagreed with me over was just wrong.
Progamers often feel that the community is in that ignorant teacher's spot. That said... now that I objectively look back on the paper... I do think I skipped one part of the assignment... So, maybe there is always something you can learn.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:16 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it. Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us. So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet.
used to?
boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will.
oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles.
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Tyler needs to take some PR lessons. I guess that's one less stream I'll be watching, or one less player I'll be supporting.
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On October 05 2011 02:17 r00ty wrote:
I got to know him through the first GSL seasons, where i was rooting for all the foreigners, until he opened his mouth to constantly whine and beeing disrespectful towards all opponents with his words and attitude ("I am the best, it's just game ballance"). Since that time, i enjoy him loosing.
When i'm watching sports, i want it to be about skill, fun and respect. Also i respect people with a fighting attitude. He's kinda the Anti-Hero to all that and is massively overrated.
I don't know, when I heard the story about his team threatened to kick him off the team if he didn't win WCG one year and he ripped through the entire tournament with only one 1 loss, I became a big fan.
Idra clearly has some of his own demons to deal with. Watching someone overcome their own weaknesses is amazing to watch.
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On October 05 2011 02:19 -_- wrote:
On fans, the community, and how progamers relate to them:
It's tough to receive criticism. Most of the time, when I got a bad grade on a paper, I wouldn't even read the comments. However, whenever I got a good grade, I'd gloat over the compliments. Obviously, this was bad. I didn't learn.
What really infuriated me, though, was when a teacher disagreed with me substantively on a topic which I knew more about than he did. Specifically, one time I wrote a great paper on the effectiveness of commercial search engines designed to catch students who bought their papers. I received a barely passing grade, and everything the teacher disagreed with me over was just wrong.
Progamers often feel that the community is in that ignorant teacher's spot. That said... now that I objectively look back on the paper... I do think I skipped one part of the assignment... So, maybe there is always something you can learn.
Always? Certainly not with the amount of hate there is sometime.
That's why Tyler said they learned to ignore the community. Because it's so hard to learn anything from the criticisms most of the time.
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:
I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
If you look at his results the last 2 month before IEM it is perfectly understandable to say he`s not a top foreigner (now not anymore).
It is also understandable that he has a lot of anti-fans by the way he acts.
And there has always been drama around Idra, but you can't take the opinion of his fans or anti-fans too serious. Idra is neither bad nor did he became #1 foreigner by winning one tournament.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:22 Nimic wrote:
Tyler needs to take some PR lessons. I guess that's one less stream I'll be watching, or one less player I'll be supporting.
except his opinion does not reflect the team or the website...but whatever.
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On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/
+ Show Spoiler +He actually cheesed elfi the last game of the iem finals. He also 6 pooled Jinro in the GSL
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On October 05 2011 02:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:16 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:
[quote]
Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it. Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us. So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet. used to? boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will. oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles.
Not nice to me? When did he ever address me specifically? He was not nice to a whole community of a few thousand people. That makes him not a nice guy in my book.
And why do you assume that I lumped myself in with people like you that make this forum the cesspool that it is sometime?
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On October 05 2011 02:24 Buff345 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/ + Show Spoiler +He actually cheesed elfi the last game of the iem finals. He also 6 pooled Jinro in the GSL
Everyone cheeses. It's part of the game.
I also can't believe the amount of double standards being tossed around in this thread. I don't even see why it's still open at this point....
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On October 05 2011 02:18 beamingrobot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:16 marttorn wrote:On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack. Monkeys are fine vs. bananas atm, but gorillas are fucking broken. No skill ez race. They need to nerf gorillas man, freaking stealing our women and screaming on towers. That spell is imba
Clearly chimps are OP. Yeah, I just watched rise of the planet of the apes.
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On October 05 2011 02:25 turamn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:24 Buff345 wrote:On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/ + Show Spoiler +He actually cheesed elfi the last game of the iem finals. He also 6 pooled Jinro in the GSL Everyone cheeses. It's part of the game.
u gotta skate
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Balance whiners, rabid Idra fanboys, and the Broodwar fans who incessantly make it known how much better they think BW is than SC2 every chance they get are the plague of the TL forums.
IdrA is a very good and entertaining player but his unnecessary BM towards certain players is uncalled for.
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On October 05 2011 02:22 Nimic wrote:
Tyler needs to take some PR lessons. I guess that's one less stream I'll be watching, or one less player I'll be supporting.
I am sure he will miss you. Personally, I respect him for saying what he thinks. I will still show up anytime he streams.
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On October 05 2011 02:24 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 05 2011 02:16 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:[quote] lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it. Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us. So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet. used to? boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will. oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles. Not nice to me? When did he ever address me specifically? He was not nice to a whole community of a few thousand people. That makes him not a nice guy in my book.
And why do you assume that I lumped myself in with people like you that make this forum the cesspool that it is sometime?
The way you post is a good tell.
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He gets hate because he is a dick, always whines, and is never a good sport. The only way you can look past that is if you are a blind fanboy. He is a damn good player but anyone who says he doesn't pull some rude shit is just ignoring the fact.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:24 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 05 2011 02:16 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:[quote] lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it. Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us. So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet. used to? boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will. oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles. Not nice to me? When did he ever address me specifically? He was not nice to a whole community of a few thousand people. That makes him not a nice guy in my book. And why do you assume that I lumped myself in with people like you that make this forum the cesspool that it is sometime?
I don't make this forum a cesspool,don't act as if you know my role in this community.
On October 05 2011 02:27 Apollo_Shards wrote:
Balance whiners, rabid Idra fanboys, and the Broodwar fans who incessantly make it known how much better they think BW is than SC2 every chance they get are the plague of the TL forums.
IdrA is a very good and entertaining player but his unnecessary BM towards certain players is uncalled for.
when was the last time that happened?
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This thread shows that Idra is one of the most popular (if not thee most popular) SC2 player in the world. Whether you like him or hate him the constant exposure that everybody gives him is the greatest thing he can ask for.
Idra fighting :D
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On October 05 2011 02:22 Nimic wrote:
Tyler needs to take some PR lessons. I guess that's one less stream I'll be watching, or one less player I'll be supporting.
IMO that is the last thing Tyler needs.
People whine that they want the "real" opinions and thoughts of the people they are interested in, but then get repelled when they get it and it is not what they wanted to hear.
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On October 05 2011 02:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:24 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 05 2011 02:16 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:
[quote]
It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by.
Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it. Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us. So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet. used to? boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will. oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles. Not nice to me? When did he ever address me specifically? He was not nice to a whole community of a few thousand people. That makes him not a nice guy in my book. And why do you assume that I lumped myself in with people like you that make this forum the cesspool that it is sometime? I don't make this forum a cesspool,don't act as if you know my role in this community.
Hey man, I'm new here. Never said anything bad about you, I don't know you. Yet somehow you decided to tell me to log off and go someplace else because I had the outrageous idea to post an opinion about a guy that (like it or not) represents Team Liquid. Is that how you treat all new people?
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On October 05 2011 02:30 Junichi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:22 Nimic wrote:
Tyler needs to take some PR lessons. I guess that's one less stream I'll be watching, or one less player I'll be supporting. IMO that is the last thing Tyler needs. People whine that they want the "real" opinions and thoughts of the people they are interested in, but then get repelled when they get it and it is not what they wanted to hear.
I'm gonna +1 your post. This is exactly it, everyone craves for honest figures in the community but then cry if he doesn't sugar coat everything. Chill toss = Best toss
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The community is the one which attracts sponsors. I guess dont bite the hand that feeds you doesnt apply to some players.
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On October 05 2011 02:27 Apollo_Shards wrote:
Balance whiners, rabid Idra fanboys, and the Broodwar fans who incessantly make it known how much better they think BW is than SC2 every chance they get are the plague of the TL forums.
IdrA is a very good and entertaining player but his unnecessary BM towards certain players is uncalled for.
Broodwar and its track record of near perfect balance speak volumes and do not need discussion.
Broodwar and the mechanics it takes to be a professional speak volumes and do not need discussion.
"Better" is a dumb word anyways.
Furthermore, I would venture to guess that more sc2 kids play in the bw forums than vice versa. those who are locked into bw are locked in.
IdrA must have played well; I will definitely be watching the Puma vods tonight. Elfi is a flash in the pan - it is a shame there were not more big namers at the tournament.
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IdrA drinks the tears of all the haters and it makes him even stronger. This rage is foolish, let's just be happy that a foreigner dominated two excellent Korean players and took the tourney. Or you could sit in your rooms with your "I Hate Idra" posters and bitch for the next thirty pages. Your choice...
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On October 04 2011 21:53 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:50 Benzzro wrote:On October 04 2011 21:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 04 2011 21:41 Hetz wrote:
Idra is a great player. Protoss indeed is way to easy being way too strong. The effort put into vs the reward, thats what he is trying to say, and he is totally right.
Besides, since the last patch, I heard zerg win rates vs protoss are dropping at an amazing rate. Protoss is way too easy? seriously? SERIOUSLY? no. just....no, no, no, no and again no. if mediocre zergs like IdrA cant beat protosses that doesnt mean that Protoss is too easy. The fact that IdrA beat MC shows that zerg is too easy. Look at GSL, + Show Spoiler +only ONE protoss got out of the group stages....and he just lost 0-2 to, what was it, CoCa....what race is he again? oh yes, a Zerg. so don't you bring balance whining to the table, cuz i could give a fucking carpet list that proves that protoss is underpowered if you wanted, and that STILL wouldn't do anything good for anyone! so don't about imbalance when you're clearly wrong, and IdrA is clearly wrong and has been wrong about ZvP for about 8 months now. Actually, he was right. Even though that guy said a dumb comment, please don't say equally retarded things making Protoss look bad. Protoss used to be easy vs Zergs, just mass Collosi with blink stalkers. It was never hard 5-6 months ago. Now it is sorry, IdrA has been wrong about ZvP for the last 6 months, because he STILL claims the same bullshit that he did back when zerg didnt understand how to deal with the death ball. "oh, he just won cause hes a protoss" no, he won cuz you suck at this match up and instead of actively improving you blame it on imbalance. equally retarded? did + Show Spoiler +SangHo not JUST get raped by CoCa?
you're right, you are more retarded. using singular games without even any explanation or description as the entire basis of your argumentation is quite idiotic.
User was warned for this post
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:33 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:29 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I don't make this forum a cesspool,don't act as if you know my role in this community.
Hey man, I'm new here. Never said anything bad about you, I don't know you. Yet somehow you decided to tell me to log off and go someplace else because I had the outrageous idea to post an opinion about a guy that (like it or not) represents Team Liquid. Is that how you treat all new people?
just you bro,just you.to make things clear I didn't tell you to get lost,I said if you want to leave then leave.
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On October 05 2011 02:11 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:57 KanoCoke wrote:On October 05 2011 01:31 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses. i don't remember anyone saying he is a bad player. saying that he is overrated or that he's inconsistent or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that, it's just his fans that don't know the difference. he is a good player, everyone knows that. not being a liar is not a thing to admire, not to mention that if he in fact is a nice person than he is fake. noone rages about idra. you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand And here's the generic personal attack reply attempting to put words into other people's mouths. I never said in any of my posts that I think IdrA is a god. In fact, I just said he's a good ZvT player. Note the difference. Posting while angry often makes people spout bullshit, and even more bullshit when they realize that their argument doesn't have much legs to stand on, and much moreso when they find people that don't agree 100% to what they're saying. As a matter of fact, I'm not even angry. I just got into the SC2 scene during the Super Tournament and only managed to know about IdrA after checking for more info about BoxeR's transition into SC2. I found out how IdrA just used to live in Korea as a pro-gamer and went back to the US and started flopping due to lack of practice (which he admits to). I also got to know how PuMa is a great TvPer judging from how he managed to defeat MC in two tournament finals, but wasn't sure about his TvZ (which I found out later was actually pretty good, due to his effective ghost usage in late-game). Then here you guys go trying to de-legitimise IdrA's win over PuMa by saying PuMa lost on purpose. When hating on a particular person, you narrow your vision and just focus on everything you can possibly hate about them and all responses that aren't exactly siding with you all look like they're on the opposite side of your view. It happens to a lot of people, and it's clearly happening to you, as now you are clearly convinced that I'm this huge IdrA fanboy that thinks that he is the God of Starcraft II. You are also clearly convinced that I like assholes simply because it adds to your convenience so you can hate on both IdrA and me more, without trying to even confirm if I do like assholes or not (and I don't like assholes, I just think IdrA's a blunt, slightly egotistic, yet funny dude, but no, think what you want to think because you obviously have no intent to actually find out what I think in the first place. You just want someone to target your hate on IdrA onto.) just wanna clarify that i didn't attack you personally and didn't put words in your mouth.. what i said stands on very strong legs, just browse around any thread about idra, wasn't specifically talking about you, i was talking about a group of people that i felt you belong to additionally i don't really get this whole hate thing. you were the one generalizing first that people are raging blindly at him, etc which is simply not true. you proceeded to defend him with stuff like he is respectful to everyone besidess protoss players and he doesn't gg too soon. omg that's something to admire;). so i am the one blindly hating, when you try to defend him that he is sometimes able to show obviously standard behavior sorry to burst your bubble, but you're the one being too subjective. i don't like him, but i don't try to belittle his achievements, you on the other hand are trying to make him seem better than he really is. and i don't like dozens of other people either, who are mannered or anything. i am able to have a bad opinion about someone without screaming with a red face.
Good, you're starting to sound more rational.
First off, thanks for clarifying what you thought. Now on to the main point:
I read through 8 pages of irrational IdrA hate and was wondering what was going on, with most of their posts containing outdated information that they spew out just to get a reaction from fans and regular readers alike. I felt compelled to correct them, seeing as these people aren't actually giving legitimate reasons nowadays, and that I did try (writing down what IdrA has been doing recently to address their points), and my post caught your attention in a negative way, with you thinking that I'm one of the IdrA fanboys that you don't personally like trying to make him into some sort of angel. Then, whether intentional or not, you started attacking me. My response to attacks is to automatically assume that the person is either simply lashing at me due to their anger, which I usually ignore, or just address all their points and give out more of my opinions.
If you inspect my posts, you'll realize that I was just responding to each post that quoted me to clearly state my points and clear any confusion. But what do I get?
> you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously
>or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that
>and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand
Then suddenly:
>just wanna clarify that i didn't attack you personally and didn't put words in your mouth
>you on the other hand are trying to make him seem better than he really is
At this point, I was facepalming. The 2nd point over there is particularly funny, because I never intended to do any of the sort. I was just informing people what IdrA has been doing lately besides his laddering (which was compiled into a 10 minute video for your amusement, or rage, depending on what type of humor you prefer) and what he has been trying to do recently both inside and outside of the game. If you took all that info as blind fanboyism, then be my guest.
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Wow what a worthless thread, someone close this asap.
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On October 05 2011 02:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:
used to?
boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will.
oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles.
could be because he visited TL strategy forums? that can break any man
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Canada13389 Posts
I think people really need to chill out. Between all the idra hate and the conspiracy theorists out there saying the matches were fixed im getting really frustrated at a lot of the crap this community decides to latch onto.
Enjoy the damn game. Enjoy the fact sc2 is as popular as it is. Stop whining, stop complaining about player x or player y.
You can be disappointed in certain things like lack of high placing foreigners in tourney or results from protoss players as of late. But once that kind of thing starts to turn around and Idra wins the IEM finals why the hell do people need to find negatives in that? He won. He's good.
Shut up and be happy that someone outside Korea has worked as hard as Idra has to show that the foreign scene isnt so far behind korea that no foreigner will ever win again. With hard work anyone can be good at this game and people like Idra are proving it.
And stop worrying about what Tyler thinks. This thread isn't about him. He is entitled to his opinions and thats all there is to it. Sometimes the lack of maturity and constant bashing I see on these forums makes me think twice about taking part in the community.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
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Reading these comments is entertaining, especially the ones bringing more unnecessary drama. IdrA has been like this for years. It's only a big deal when anti-IdrA fans make it into a big deal. Yeah, IdrA's attitude isn't the best when it comes to the game, but outside he is a chill guy to talk to. His personality on the internet doesn't reflect how he acts in real life. You can ask people who met him in real life. If IdrA was such a douche, then you wouldn't see people hanging around him. That is false because pictures and videos of IdrA at MLG's, IEM's, etc shows him hanging out with other players.
I don't see how people can think PuMa threw away the games when he still played well. I love it when player X has been playing well and then Player Y comes in and beats player X. The internet explodes and people think it's BS that he lost. IdrA has been a strong player since the early days of SC2 and he has been in a slump, but he still displays impressive games.
Honestly, the people that hate IdrA for his attitude are the softies that can't deal with people like him. The real world isn't full of nice people and just because this is our community doesn't mean they'll be assholes in it. I am not pointing that statement to IdrA, entirely but just in general.
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I think this whole thing is hilarious his fans have such hubris after one win against puma condier idra on Nestea level etc and ye a person who hates then to get haters and as it has been said both his fans and haters är incredible annoying.
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well Idra is not Korean... so he isnt allowed 2 be BM
MC is BM and everyone goes "OH WAT A BALLER"
Idra is BM "OLOLOOL RAGE BLABLABLA".
and yes their BM is different but still people like it when koreans are BM and when west guys are BM they go apeshit over it.
and not writing GG isnt even BM but yeah TT
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On October 05 2011 02:35 Drey wrote:
The community is the one which attracts sponsors. I guess dont bite the hand that feeds you doesnt apply to some players.
On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions.
Viewers attract sponsors, not the community.
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Tyler and IdrA are REAL, they don't put on this silly front for 'PR' like everyone seems to claim they want. I have no idea why the fuck someone would want that, it is tired and boring. I often wondered why they bother doing interviews with professional athletes after the games 'we played a tough team, they deserve a lot of credit we were just better tonight.' or some other rehashed read your response off a piece of paper. I don't see the point so we can all say 'ohh he's so nice and humble' please, don't waste my time.
IdrA played amazingly in the playoff after a shaky group. He proved once again he has some of the nastiest macro on earth and is a top tier player. Anyone trying to discredit his wins are silly and shouldn't be given attention.
<3 IdrA
<3 tyler
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On October 05 2011 02:27 Apollo_Shards wrote:
Balance whiners, rabid Idra fanboys, and the Broodwar fans who incessantly make it known how much better they think BW is than SC2 every chance they get are the plague of the TL forums.
IdrA is a very good and entertaining player but his unnecessary BM towards certain players is uncalled for.
haha, include armchair game designers and I´ll agree with this. I sometimes read this forums and wonder if people actually like the game. They clearly spend a lot of time thinking and whinning and complaining about a game they hate.
Definitively the community sometimes feels like trash.(Its not everybody obviously but all the btiching about... everything gets tiring)
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I didn't know you had to like everyone in sports.
It certainly doesn't help that idra promotes the most psychotic zerg fanboys.
Still this match fixing deal is shit that is being thrown about too trivially. Good read up about savior and the shit even the suspicion of such activities did to some careers. (Oh upmagic why t.t)
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So much hate.... Seriously, I play Terran and I kinda was on Puma's side but I'm glad finally a foreigner won an event where there were koreans. On another note, TvZ lategame is really hard for Terran, and such a solid player like Idra can hold his own in that situation. Yes, Jinro beat him, but he won with a timing attack and a proxy rax bunker rush. So let's not take away the praise Idra deserves.
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On October 05 2011 02:38 RedDragon571 wrote:
Wow what a worthless thread, someone close this asap.
At first I though this could have brought out a good discussion but its just turned into a hatefest. Now I realize asking "Why do you hate somebody" is just a stupid question and of course it is going to cause nothing but pointless arguments. Please close.
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On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...
You say the joke went over his head but then you go justify what you said...
On the topic of IdrA I think he played quite well during this tournament and his wins were all legitimate (go watch the games). IdrA definitely has some attitude problems to work on but I think at least at this moment he deserves congratulations.
I feel like I go back and forth being an IdrA fan and really disliking IdrA and I've noticed that those trends coincide with whether he's winning or not. It bothers me that I only like him when he's winning... it just means his BM isn't getting a chance to come out.
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On October 05 2011 02:43 crms wrote:
Tyler and IdrA are REAL, they don't put on this silly front for 'PR' like everyone seems to claim they want. I have no idea why the fuck someone would want that, it is tired and boring. I often wondered why they bother doing interviews with professional athletes after the games 'we played a tough team, they deserve a lot of credit we were just better tonight.' or some other rehashed read your response off a piece of paper. I don't see the point so we can all say 'ohh he's so nice and humble' please, don't waste my time.
IdrA played amazingly in the playoff after a shaky group. He proved once again he has some of the nastiest macro on earth and is a top tier player. Anyone trying to discredit his wins are silly and shouldn't be given attention.
<3 IdrA
<3 tyler
Ever heard of "If you've got nothing good to say about something, then shut up!". Basically what Tyler (and the people he seems to consider worthless) needs to learn.
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Well, I am going to sit up in my chair and type in a thread that will undoubtedly get me flamed :D
*zips up flame suit*
With regards to IdrA:
I don't personally like IdrA's personality. Every time I see any media relating to him it is negative or displayed negatively. That is probably the reason I don't like his personality. Threads like this (yes, I am aware that I am perpetuating this thread just by posting lol) and media that people put out about him all display him as this badass, arrogant robot of a human being who rages like the world has never seen. However, through watching a lot of content related to SC2 and the pro scene, many people have said that IdrA is a very nice, homely guy. These are people that have actually interacted with him and spoken to him -- how many of you have done that? How many of you know him outside of his representation? Probably not so many. Even if he is a raging human robot devoid of a soul and his sole intent is to drain your soul -- he is still a great Starcraft 2 player. That is why he is paid to play. Even if he does poorly in a tournament, he is still on a different level than most of the people on this forum. If nothing else, you should at least be able to respect the fact that he understands this game and is good at it, even if at times he isn't as good as the other top players.
With regards to the Tyler post:
Whoever said Tyler needs PR lessons and then went on to say how he would no longer watch his stream nor support him. How self-righteous can you get? If you would drop your support just because a player spoke his mind, then the community as a whole is better of without you. Are you supposed to agree with everything the professionals say? Nope. Are they supposed to bottle up their true thoughts and not speak their mind? Nope. It is just the way things are. Having an open forum where you can freely speak your mind and defend your viewpoints is something that makes this community unique and strong. Where else can you find this level of interaction between community and players? The fact that you can come to this thread and read the true opinions of a professional player in the context of a discussion spawned by the community is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Also, the impression I got from Tyler's post is that a lot of the community is mindless and they speak without thought, thus their opinions hold less merit and are not worth bothering yourself with.
I am a person who loves a good debate and I am sure there are many like me; however, if you are to debate there is an inherent level of respect between all parties involved that usually ends up violated in the end. If you don't agree with someone feel free to tell them why you don't agree, but be respectful of the fact that, ultimately, they are entitled to believe whatever the hell they want to.
My two cents.
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On October 04 2011 21:26 svefnleysi wrote:
He's a bad mannered egomaniac and you're surprised people don't like him?
Now that he has some results (I'm not counting IPL season 1 as "results") maybe he can afford a bit more to act the way he does.
However, a win is a win, and people shouldn't be taking away from that. Congrats to Idra.
wtf? egomaniac???? are you fucking serious?
first i hardly think hes an egomaniac and 2nd you cant diagnose it from watching what little of his life you have seen.
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Idra played really really well in the 2nd two days.
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On October 05 2011 02:28 Scrandom wrote:
He gets hate because he is a dick, always whines, and is never a good sport. The only way you can look past that is if you are a blind fanboy. He is a damn good player but anyone who says he doesn't pull some rude shit is just ignoring the fact.
Yeah, I have to agree with this. He antagonizes ppl way too much. I can understand frustration being one of the reasons but considering he has done so well up till now, placing high in most tournaments and earning allot of money, all his hate is uncalled for. I mean look at Jinro, he's fallen from probably the best foreign Terran and top 5 Terrans in the world to obscurity. I can see when he streams he is bitter most of the time and I understand him very well. But he's still not an asshole about it and mostly keeps it to himself.
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On October 05 2011 02:48 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:43 crms wrote:
Tyler and IdrA are REAL, they don't put on this silly front for 'PR' like everyone seems to claim they want. I have no idea why the fuck someone would want that, it is tired and boring. I often wondered why they bother doing interviews with professional athletes after the games 'we played a tough team, they deserve a lot of credit we were just better tonight.' or some other rehashed read your response off a piece of paper. I don't see the point so we can all say 'ohh he's so nice and humble' please, don't waste my time.
IdrA played amazingly in the playoff after a shaky group. He proved once again he has some of the nastiest macro on earth and is a top tier player. Anyone trying to discredit his wins are silly and shouldn't be given attention.
<3 IdrA
<3 tyler Ever heard of "If you've got nothing good to say about something, then shut up!". Basically what Tyler (and the people he seems to consider worthless) needs to learn.
I'd rather it be real and 'mean' then fake and 'nice,' to each their own I suppose. There is a difference between going out of your way to hurt someone by being mean and giving your honest opinion towards a discussion.
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On October 05 2011 02:38 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:11 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:57 KanoCoke wrote:On October 05 2011 01:31 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses. i don't remember anyone saying he is a bad player. saying that he is overrated or that he's inconsistent or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that, it's just his fans that don't know the difference. he is a good player, everyone knows that. not being a liar is not a thing to admire, not to mention that if he in fact is a nice person than he is fake. noone rages about idra. you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand And here's the generic personal attack reply attempting to put words into other people's mouths. I never said in any of my posts that I think IdrA is a god. In fact, I just said he's a good ZvT player. Note the difference. Posting while angry often makes people spout bullshit, and even more bullshit when they realize that their argument doesn't have much legs to stand on, and much moreso when they find people that don't agree 100% to what they're saying. As a matter of fact, I'm not even angry. I just got into the SC2 scene during the Super Tournament and only managed to know about IdrA after checking for more info about BoxeR's transition into SC2. I found out how IdrA just used to live in Korea as a pro-gamer and went back to the US and started flopping due to lack of practice (which he admits to). I also got to know how PuMa is a great TvPer judging from how he managed to defeat MC in two tournament finals, but wasn't sure about his TvZ (which I found out later was actually pretty good, due to his effective ghost usage in late-game). Then here you guys go trying to de-legitimise IdrA's win over PuMa by saying PuMa lost on purpose. When hating on a particular person, you narrow your vision and just focus on everything you can possibly hate about them and all responses that aren't exactly siding with you all look like they're on the opposite side of your view. It happens to a lot of people, and it's clearly happening to you, as now you are clearly convinced that I'm this huge IdrA fanboy that thinks that he is the God of Starcraft II. You are also clearly convinced that I like assholes simply because it adds to your convenience so you can hate on both IdrA and me more, without trying to even confirm if I do like assholes or not (and I don't like assholes, I just think IdrA's a blunt, slightly egotistic, yet funny dude, but no, think what you want to think because you obviously have no intent to actually find out what I think in the first place. You just want someone to target your hate on IdrA onto.) just wanna clarify that i didn't attack you personally and didn't put words in your mouth.. what i said stands on very strong legs, just browse around any thread about idra, wasn't specifically talking about you, i was talking about a group of people that i felt you belong to additionally i don't really get this whole hate thing. you were the one generalizing first that people are raging blindly at him, etc which is simply not true. you proceeded to defend him with stuff like he is respectful to everyone besidess protoss players and he doesn't gg too soon. omg that's something to admire;). so i am the one blindly hating, when you try to defend him that he is sometimes able to show obviously standard behavior sorry to burst your bubble, but you're the one being too subjective. i don't like him, but i don't try to belittle his achievements, you on the other hand are trying to make him seem better than he really is. and i don't like dozens of other people either, who are mannered or anything. i am able to have a bad opinion about someone without screaming with a red face. Good, you're starting to sound more rational. First off, thanks for clarifying what you thought. Now on to the main point: I read through 8 pages of irrational IdrA hate and was wondering what was going on, with most of their posts containing outdated information that they spew out just to get a reaction from fans and regular readers alike. I felt compelled to correct them, seeing as these people aren't actually giving legitimate reasons nowadays, and that I did try (writing down what IdrA has been doing recently to address their points), and my post caught your attention in a negative way, with you thinking that I'm one of the IdrA fanboys that you don't personally like trying to make him into some sort of angel. Then, whether intentional or not, you started attacking me. My response to attacks is to automatically assume that the person is either simply lashing at me due to their anger, which I usually ignore, or just address all their points and give out more of my opinions. If you inspect my posts, you'll realize that I was just responding to each post that quoted me to clearly state my points and clear any confusion. But what do I get? > you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously >or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that >and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand Then suddenly: >just wanna clarify that i didn't attack you personally and didn't put words in your mouth >you on the other hand are trying to make him seem better than he really is At this point, I was facepalming. The 2nd point over there is particularly funny, because I never intended to do any of the sort. I was just informing people what IdrA has been doing lately besides his laddering (which was compiled into a 10 minute video for your amusement, or rage, depending on what type of humor you prefer) and what he has been trying to do recently both inside and outside of the game. If you took all that info as blind fanboyism, then be my guest.
when was i being irrational? maybe it wasn't clear what i meant but i wasn't irrational.
btw saying that i felt like you think idra is more awesome than he really is, and i can't take it seriously, or saying that liking an asshole is irrational is hardly a personal attack or putting words in your mouth. by that logic you saying "you're starting to sound more rational" is a personal attack too. you know, we can communicate how we disagree with such ways, without licking each other and even without the danger to insult each other to death. stop misinterpreting me
about your facepalm moment, i told you already i was generalizing, talking about this whole group of people which i felt you belong to, which maybe wasn't the best thing. later on i clarified that i meant you're trying to make idra seem better than he really does, which i still think, but you're clearly not as blind of a fanboy than many others (which i btw never really said you are).
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People are just retarded. You can't really put much weight into most of the crap you read on tl. Just let the haters hate and spread the love in idra fanclub
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Idra is a great player. His attitude just sucks.
I hated him in BW, and he was mediocre at that game. He's one of the best players in the world in SC2, but he's still got a terrible attitude.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg)
