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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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SemperSC
Canada117 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:17 kenkaze291 wrote: For the barracks build time, I always wondered why it was 60 when gateway and spawning pool build times were 65... So we don't die to chrono boosted units? And to actually somehow be able to pressure a hatch first? | ||
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TA.GaMei
Dominican Republic23 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:00 dartoo wrote: I wonder..is the +5 to barracks to enable more scouting for the other races..your ovie can stay in longer, and the probe can stay alive for longer in the base before the first marine pops out... exactly!! terran could scout for a longer time in their opponents base, now they will suffer the same. we will have more time to see if they will do a depot after the barrack or other barrack or whatever they want. we will know it. | ||
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LookNaph
Canada59 Posts
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SwitchAUS
Australia106 Posts
Infestor nerf was expected, I don't use them too much anyways, not even mad. Barracks nerf seems a little weird, maybe it reduces the effect of the 6rax? lol | ||
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Midgetman101
United States825 Posts
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tsuxiit
1305 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:17 Omnipresent wrote: I literally can't think of a single reason to increase barracks build time. Is there really anyone left who's having problems holding barracks openers? I know it's only 5 seconds, but still... I want you to go on the ladder, 14 hatch, and then play against an 11/11 2 rax build on any map in the Blizzard ladder. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Does anyone know if the buff to mothership acceleration only effects the acceleration? Or does it also increase the movement speed? | ||
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A Wet Shamwow
United States1590 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:15 TA.GaMei wrote: Man those 5 second will help a ton at figuring out what will be the opening of the terran since the marine will come out 5 sec later, most of the time u didnt have enough intel to know what was the terran opening choice, 1rax gas doesnt mean anything they can to any opening, now u will know when he builds his second depot which will tell u right away his opening. . You think terrans are going to throw stuff down in front of you instead of waiting 5 secs? It does nothing | ||
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esaul17
Canada547 Posts
Immortals: Great change. Immortals often feel far too clunky on anything outside the super early game. They also die quickly to marines, so this lets you keep them a little further behind your zealots to keep them safe. Will still have to micro them in front of stalkers, but that is fair enough. You WANT your immortals taking fire over your stalkers often enough anyway. Mothership: Cloaking change is good as you no longer have to announce you made a mothership. The acceleration seems cool, but ultimately I don't see much use for the mothership. Especially when carriers have no place in the metagame, it is a massive investment for just one unit. This is a tough one though, as any real buff could very quickly make it overpowered. Imagine something like we saw in the alpha coming out? Kind of sucks that Protoss' ultimate weapon is kind of a dud now though, even if it is a slightly faster dud. Stalker: Can help with blink all ins, especially combined with the immortal change for PvP. Seems fine to push the match up toward a macrogame. Will slow blink rushes against Z and T, which were already on a knife's edge for success anyway. Assuming P can compete in a normal game I don't mind this change, but it is unfortunate to see Toss get a nerf on one of the few ways they can harass or pressure right now. Warp Prism: Should help with MC templar micro situations. For regular drops I do worry that the issue is that Protoss doesn't have much worth dropping as much as it is that their dropship is fragile. If they increase the cargo to 6 or something I would be happy, but it is probably best to see how this plays out first. Templar drops or Immortal drops maybe more popular since they have a hope of making it home? Barracks: Subtle T nerf slowing down everything they do. With T's current dominance, this seems okay, but I would have preferred a more focused nerf on 1/1/1 and EMP. Hellion: I have been thinking for a while that blue flame hellions were way too strong. You can lose so much with a blue flame drop, compared to the investment the T has to put into it. So I think this will give players a bit more of a chance to prevent such volatile moments from losing them the game Raven: Seeker missile currently seemed pretty useless so it would be nice to bring it back in. Ravens are damn strong, but this ability currently was underutilized. Infestor: Fungal is so good, hope this evens it out a little without returning Zerg to their pre-fungal buff state entirely Overseer: Whatever I guess? Contaminate is cool, may help making overseers more expendable. Ultralisk: Seems I see Z die vs T waiting for BLs to morph or Ultras to hatch too often. This might help Z remax and such easier. | ||
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devPLEASE
Kenya605 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:12 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote: The all in (mainly used in TvP) that revolves around getting a shit ton of marines with tanks and banshees (and maybe a raven) (or even a few hellions) that has been pretty difficult to stop as P for the past 2 months or so Thanks a lot man. I really appreciate it. | ||
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KiF1rE
United States964 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:14 SiguR wrote: Someone previously brought up a point about warp prisms. The problem is not that they are fragile. The problem is that there is no compensation for their fragile state. If you have something potent to put in them, being fragile isn't a problem. Simply increasing warp prism hp avoids a course of action that could increase the quality of games. agreed... one of my other complaints is that, warp prisms have their speed upgrade on the robotics bay... and the robo bay gives nothing to put into the warp prism. which requires a ton of tech to get that upgrade and every Warp prism build lately, drops HT or DT... which is a completely different tech tree. | ||
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MrSweetNess
Australia312 Posts
Don't really get the racks build time though.. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:19 tsuxiit wrote: I want you to go on the ladder, 14 hatch, and then play against an 11/11 2 rax build on any map in the Blizzard ladder. haha, 11/11 will still be pretty damn strong. | ||
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:17 Omnipresent wrote: I literally can't think of a single reason to increase barracks build time. Is there really anyone left who's having problems holding barracks openers? I know it's only 5 seconds, but still... Do people not watch the GSL? Zergs still lose to 2 rax bunkers all the time. Nestea.. Losira.. Leenock all within this GSL season. On August 25 2011 12:09 ma70 wrote: Overseer Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50. Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125. I like the Morph cost buff, but the contaminate nerf seems random? It's not random at all. They almost decreased the cost of overseer by half, but they didn't want that to mean Zergs can have double the contaminates so they increased the cost. | ||
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Mike15xp
United States595 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:29 windsupernova wrote: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Hellions But I guess they did do too much damage. I like the Immortal Buff. MC must be like FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. Edit: Overall I think its a good patch and I am glad that HSM has been made more usable. I wonder if Marine Raven will become viable now his sacrifice was was not in vain | ||
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_Search_
Canada180 Posts
The only thing that totally puzzles me is the rax nerf. Since when was anyone complaining about rax build time? Besides Terran NEEDS that first rax to hold off early pressure. Terran has the hardest time building army in the early game. There's no reason to make it even more difficult. But my favourite change is that APM spammers can no longer hold their fake APM over me as some indication of superiority. | ||
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Trozz
Canada3456 Posts
What the hell is this? This is a really sad change. Seems like a great patch. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
Maybe someone from BW will complain about how easy SC2 is, especially now that they can auto-tune banelings instead of having to micro them vs buildings.... | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On August 25 2011 11:50 TMmingus wrote: I genuinely have to question Blizzards thought process here. First of all, there are some really weird and not very logical changes at all. The first one I really reacted to is the Overseer Contaminate nerf. It's to 90% (AT LEAST) used only in zvz, which makes it even weirder. If it's the same for both, who cares? They could've changed it to 5 for all I care. Secondly, making the Immortal better? The Immortal is in my opinion the best unit in the game and can be used to great succes with the help of a Warp Prism. To buff the Immortal's range is just border line crazy. Now, with the fungal nerf, protoss will once again most likley win every game against zerg. This allso means that you need less "skill" with the most valuable spell in the game, the force fields (which you can have 3 minutes into the match). This is not a well thought out buff. Thirdly, as someone already pointed out. How come nothing is done to the Hydra? It's a unit people sometimes HAVE to rely on and at the same time is completley useless. Make some change to it, increase their health points or the moving speed of the unit or just something. Show us you care! Having said all this, I see that I come of as very negative. They're some GREAT changes in this patch too as the Ultras now may become actually usefull. And Zergs (sometimes protosses as well) might not lose an entire mineral line 6 minutes into the match due to blue flames. I will come of as very pro-Zerg, which is not the case at all. I play random and have since day one and therefor I feel I can give a good perspective. Now, some of you might not agree with me at all but that's just how it is. I hope things work out, though. I have to lol at your first 2 paragraphs. I've had a few Zergs use contaminate on me in PvZ. Second, Immortal was shit. Anti armor unit? Yeah, if you're not fighting a shit ton of Marauders/Roaches/Stalkers. Otherwise they get focused down so fast that they get 2 shots off, not even enough to kill any of the 3. I seriously can't even tell you how pathetic it is to make an Immortal only to have it killed in seconds. You can't even micro it back since it gets stuck in front of Stalkers, since 6>5 range, and its slow as ass. Terran has the hardest time building army in the early game. There's no reason to make it even more difficult. Play Protoss. You absolutely will not find that true ever again. | ||
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