EPTThe problem is not that they are fragile. The problem is that there is no compensation for their fragile state. If you have something potent to put in them, being fragile isn't a problem. Simply increasing warp prism hp avoids a course of action that could increase the quality of games.
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 48
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
The problem is not that they are fragile. The problem is that there is no compensation for their fragile state. If you have something potent to put in them, being fragile isn't a problem. Simply increasing warp prism hp avoids a course of action that could increase the quality of games. | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:04 Devolved wrote: So what units can now not outrun the seeker missile that could outrun it before? Probes/SCVs/Drones Zealots with charge Warp prism without upgrade DTs Archons Vikings Medivacs Banshees Unupgraded roaches on creep Unupgraded banelings off creep Queens on creep Infestors on creep Ultras off creep Overseers | ||
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DizzyDrone
Netherlands629 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:06 Blacklizard wrote: Random comments: -OK change on overseer cost I think since they die pretty often. But yeah, like someone said the spore root buff needs to be reverted. Queens are extremely effective anti-air for minerals only. Spores that can move and shoot like normal units (almost) are kinda insane. You need to realise that although queens are a good defensive AA unit their offensive use is very limited, which already is Zerg's weak point in the early game. | ||
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sixsmith
1 Post
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Fu[G]u
United States187 Posts
On August 17 2011 02:43 Fu[G]u wrote: [/B]So, I have an idea for a balance change. It pains me to suggest a buff for protoss, being a zerg player, but it is more for pvt and i dont think it would affect the other matchups too much. Maybe PvP a little, but i dont think it would break the matchup. My suggestion is the give the immortal +1 range. Imho this would do a few different things. First, and most importantly, it would help protoss players hold off the 1-1-1 push that is SO prevalent in high levels of pvt. being able to target the seige tanks without your immortals getting stuck behind ur other units and not firing would help a great deal in holding this push. Second, as a generality protoss players, as Artosis is often pointing out in the GSL, often do not control their immortals very well, as they have them on the same hotkey as their other units. Giving them +1 range might help the protoss army function more cohesively. I am certainly open to the possibility that protoss players just havent figured out the proper response to the 1-1-1 build, but as it is pretty easy for the terran to execute, should it really be so hard for the protoss to hold? This might level the playing field a bit. So what are your thought, TL, would this be too big off a buff? How would it affect pvp and pvz if at all? Necessary or over the top? | ||
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Chernobyl
Brazil143 Posts
That is great, it happens a lot. Perfect patch, well done! | ||
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TA.GaMei
Dominican Republic23 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:00 A Wet Shamwow wrote: This doesn't matter, you will just get your worker killed 5 seconds later and not see anything, all this does is change EVERY single Terran timing. I am fine with every terran change (even happy about the hellion change) but this seems unneeded. Man those 5 second will help a ton at figuring out what will be the opening of the terran since the marine will come out 5 sec later, most of the time u didnt have enough intel to know what was the terran opening choice, 1rax gas doesnt mean anything they can to any opening, now u will know when he builds his second depot which will tell u right away his opening. . | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
The barracks nerf is an act of idiocy. Delaying the orbital, and hence the entire Terran economy, not to mention delaying a Terran's ability to pressure opponents early. Blech. well tbh it's not like terran was particularly weak in the early game pressure department terran has by far the best early-game pressure ability in terms of being able to macro cost-effective units early-game | ||
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Vinx
Canada259 Posts
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LookNaph
Canada59 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:00 ELA wrote: The warp prism buff is really really significant - Warpprisms will have 25% more HP (If you count shields) than a medivac - 200hp in total, same as an overlord. Further than that, Warpprisms are really really fast if you get the speed-upgrade: 3.375 - That's 0,6 faster than a viking, with almost instant accelleration. By far the best "dropship"-type unit in the game now.. Will be really fun to see what a WhiteRa or Puzzle can do with this IMO a better (and less crazy) change instead would be just add +1 sight (to be on par with medivacs) ,only add 20 shields and a much faster build time. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
Am I missing something? Oo | ||
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SemperSC
Canada117 Posts
Zerg remaxes with ultras and pushes your army which has useless vikings in less than a minute. We'll see I guess -_-. Terran really needs a late game buff. HSM buff is good for TvT, but I don't see it working in other matchups. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:11 Devolved wrote: Does anyone know which units are slower than 2.953? All workers Every Terran unit except stimmed infantry, Reapers and Hellions Queens, slow Roaches, Overlords and Overseers, Hydralisks, Infestors Every Protoss unit except the Stalker (equal speed), the speed Prism and the Phoenix | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
BF Hellions now do 8+6+ 5 = 19 damage to workers. Drones have 40 HP. With no upgrades, it takes 3 BF Hellion shots to kill a drone or probe. With +1, two BF Hellion shots kill a drone or probe again (19 + 1 for attack + another 1 for the bonus against light = 21. 21 * 2 = 42). With +2, two BF Hellion shots kill a drone or probe, regardless of Z/P upgrades, and kill and SCV with no armor upgrade. With +3, two blue flame hellion shots kill a worker and there's nothing you can do neener neener neener. So BF hellions are just as good in a lategame where you've been meching (and thus this nerf is also a buff to mech generally), and nearly as good otherwise. | ||
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Shableh
Canada40 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:11 Devolved wrote: Does anyone know which units are slower than 2.953? Thors. HSM now counters Thors. Yippee. Thank you BLizzard. On a more serious note. I think its more about making it more difficult to dodge. I personally feel the Raven is the most under estimated unit. PDD is amazing in all 3 match ups. It blocks Mutas(TvZ),Vikings(TvT), Maruaders(TvT) and Stalkers(Tvp) And now I think it may serve as a way to deal will Mass Muta. Rather then banking money on thors you can go ravens and never have to stop your tank production. and what you save in minerals means more marines. Time will tell. I still think that for 125 energy its should be faster though. | ||
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Omnipresent
United States871 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:12 darthcaesar wrote: The barracks nerf is an act of idiocy. Delaying the orbital, and hence the entire Terran economy, not to mention delaying a Terran's ability to pressure opponents early. Blech. I literally can't think of a single reason to increase barracks build time. Is there really anyone left who's having problems holding barracks openers? I know it's only 5 seconds, but still... | ||
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kenkaze291
United States92 Posts
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OminouS
Sweden1343 Posts
Right now, zealot charge. But there has been other changes to SC2 that has limited the use of certain units before as well. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On August 25 2011 12:14 SiguR wrote: Someone previously brought up a point about warp prisms. The problem is not that they are fragile. The problem is that there is no compensation for their fragile state. If you have something potent to put in them, being fragile isn't a problem. Simply increasing warp prism hp avoids a course of action that could increase the quality of games. Most good protoss players were working templar drops into their play in some fashion (MC, Inka (US one), HerO, Huk, White-ra) the improved health just makes them less punishing to load up the 400 gas into and lets them retreat easier, which was desperately needed. | ||
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