Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
-Infestor nerf will help Terran a ton, no affect on Protoss. Also, I think it's the wrong nerf on infestor... should have been anti-chain fungal. -Immortal nerf will have little affect on 1/1/1. Still welcome vs Z and T in general, but will affect PvP more. -Blink Stalker research nerf... ouch. Also huge change to PvP (OK, not predicting that part as huge, but probably significant)?
Obvious crap some people are missing (did somebody clear this up yet?):
EDIT: WHOOOPS BFH!!!!!!!! I can't do math.
Fungal was doing 47 damage to armored Protoss units. Now it will do 40 damage. It took 4 shots to kill a stalker before. It'll take 4 fungals to kill them after the nerf. What about light units? It took 5 hits to kill a zealot, now it'll take... 5. Same number of hits before and after for sentries and HT. Not a noticeable change at all?!?! It was the chain fungals and the anti air abilties of infestors that were the bigger problem PvZ anyway I think.
Reasons for some changes (did somebody finally answer some of these posters' questions???):
Barracks build time is to slightly nerf the build on the10 billion page thread on the 3 brx all in and various other early all ins with marines and SCVs. Still I don't think if it will matter much. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517
Overseer just got reduced to about half the cost. So contaminate costs more now so it can't be cast twice per 1 overseer....... it can be cast just as much if you spend the same amount of gas. -_-
Random comments: -OK change on overseer cost I think since they die pretty often. But yeah, like someone said the spore root buff needs to be reverted. Queens are extremely effective anti-air for minerals only. Spores that can move and shoot like normal units (almost) are kinda insane. -Warp Prism buff was needed -More pro games with seeker missiles and motherships? -I need to see this zealot change... very odd sounding. -Drone buff was something Zergs were wanting for a while. -Great fix on anti spam lag for tourney players, good work Blizz. -Good change on alerting when other guy gets minerals back. Helps spectators, too. -Ultras saw more play than carriers... but needed a a build time reduction?
Hellions could maybe have been 7 instead of 5, now they'll lose easily to speedlings. Glad to see the Warp prism buff, and the fungal nerf. The barracks timing is a little weird, but I don't see it really mattering. Would have like to see a way for SCV's to not be vulnerable while building. Overall seems pretty good, we'll have to see what comes of the Hellion change, that's going to have the biggest impact I'd say.
2 helions with flame and +1 attack will now deal 40 dmg. So they will oneshot probes, but will not oneshot SCVs and maybe drones (caz of insta-regen 1hp). Nice.
On August 25 2011 12:06 Ramen_ wrote: 2 helions with flame and +1 attack will now deal 40 dmg. So they will oneshot probes, but will not oneshot SCVs and maybe drones (caz of insta-regen 1hp). Nice.
The 1/1/1 push in TvP should be easier to stop now that immortals have longer range. Motherships should see more use now that they can maneuver more effectively against vikings. Blink timing is slightly easier to stop for Terran. Warp prisms may or may not see more use.
Still don't know how viable immortals are late-game vs. ghost-based armies. They'll still melt when EMP'd.
Now Protoss drops will actually be viable, blue flame isn't nearly as ridiculous, infestors got their nerf, and ultras will hopefully see more use? I actually REALLY like this patch.
General Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.
I like this change. Helps with the 4 gate wars (or at least I think so) so that its harder to get vision up the ramp to warp-in. Also hurts blink play a little bit (i think)
PROTOSS Immortal Attack range increased from 5 to 6.
Overall buff that may help against 1/1/1 and helps in PvP to stop 4 gate. Also makes Immortals a decent part of the army now so they won't get stuck doing nothing behind Stalkers.
Mothership Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375. The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online.
I don't use the Mothership, but this is nice
Stalker Blink research time increased from 110 to 140. I'm guessing this was to help Zerg against Blink All-Ins and that 7 gate Timing attack. This might also help PvP not be so volatile
Warp Prism Shields increased from 40 to 100. Amazing buff. I might use these more now
TERRAN Barracks Build time increased from 60 to 65. Not sure what this is for
Hellion Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. Ouch for BFH....
Raven Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. Random buff for an underused ability. Nice
ZERG Infestor Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored). Nice...
Overseer Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50. Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125. I like the Morph cost buff, but the contaminate nerf seems random?
Ultralisk Build time decreased from 70 to 55. Good...I wish they would fix the pathing issues though
I do think it's unfortunate that the blue flame nerf affects their use against non-worker targets. I always thought they had some good potential in TvP when the Protoss has an unbreakable wall of zealots, but we'll be even less likely to see that now.
Why is it that blizzard patch everything that adds the slightest depth to gameplay that isn't a part of their original idea? Imagine BW without stakced mutas. Thats where SC2 is heading =/
Wow really protoss favored! I feel that the Immortal buff will really increase their effectiveness esp. in Stalker balls (less likely to get sniped in front). Of course the warp prism buff was needed. Other than that I feel the pre-igniter nerf is directed toward the new TvZ and TvT styles. Not my favorite since it will take 3 hellions to oko workers now.
-Zerg has a super easy time tech switching from broods to ultras after banking from a big 200/200 fight... only 1 round of some Terran units can get out before the ultras come to stomp you.
-Raven becomes a huge investment with HSM researched for a 6 range spell... 100/200 for the unit, 150/150 for the spell.
-Doesn't fix the core problem of fungal locks on units. Who cares if you have to fungal once more if you have 12 infestors?
-Barracks time increase doesn't really change anything, it's more of a kick in the dick of Terran players by Blizzard.
-Hellion nerf... not like I used BFH too much but they were great defense against lings and sometimes zealots.
-Like the ramp vision change, I hated how stalkers could blink up by just having one hug the corner.
Attack upgrades are now retained by units controlled by Neural Parasite.
-More zerg buffs plz.
Overall I think Terran will have a tough time, especially in the lower leagues. But once again, Terran players will figure out clever and creative new strategies, which will be nerfed.
Changes seem pretty good. I especially like Blizzard increasing warp prism shields. Nice try, not like they'll be used (much) more because of it.... someday Blizz, you'll make the WP attractive!
I told ya Destiny was a one Trick Pony... Infestor Nerf Have Fun in High Masters Destiny
Destiny won't be GM anymore He's a One Trick Pony.
guess its better than being a no-trick pony... (you)
I like the unit vision up ramps being decreased because it makes the high ground advantage even better which might help vs defending a 4 gate that has heavy stalkers or something like that. The immortal change seems cool but honestly i don't think the drop prism change will affect very much. Protoss simply don't drop ever so I don't think that will be too big of a change. The blue flame Hellion change...really? I mean Terrans were using reapers well and they got nerfed so hard that they are possibly the most useless unit in the game next to the overseer (nice change for that too I guess). Terran needs some sort of early aggression unit. No more reapers, Blue Flame hellions not worth 150/150 now, and even barracks build time is increased. Makes me sad as a Terran, at least Fungal got nerfed a little.
EPT
