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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
they failed at balancing WOW, diablo3 is is a bland failure and they're even struggling to change things that matter in SC2. seriously... why change hunter seeker speed? pointless. it's a PTR - grow some ballz and make the spell useful ffs. thor cannon is also a sack of crap spell that needs to be changed... then you also have certain units which are broken and make the game super shallow. that is all. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12026 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:28 shizna wrote: i think blizzard are incapable of making good decisions. they failed at balancing WOW, diablo3 is is a bland failure and they're even struggling to change things that matter in SC2. seriously... why change hunter seeker speed? pointless. it's a PTR - grow some ballz and make the spell useful ffs. thor cannon is also a sack of crap spell that needs to be changed... then you also have certain units which are broken and make the game super shallow. that is all. They only failed/are failing at balancing WoW as it is impossible to fully balance a game with 9 classes. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On September 18 2011 16:07 Xequecal wrote: Terran will dominate until either marines or mules are nerfed. Both will probably have to get hit. The way it works now is all Terran has to do is focus on eliminating the opponent's AE units and the overpowered marines will clean up everything else, even if you have half their supply. The DPS is just too high, and their ability to effectively shoot while moving just makes it ten times worse. Two marines do more DPS than a marauder against armored and are cheaper. A marine has barely 33% less HP and DPS than a hydralisk and costs 1/4th as much. Both (marine and mule nerf) will never happen, and you would know this if you actually play this game. It's like saying "stalkers / zealots and roaches / speedlings have to be nerfed". | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:29 Qikz wrote: They only failed/are failing at balancing WoW as it is impossible to fully balance a game with 9 classes. I dunno. At the highest level, TF2 seems pretty balanced (with the original weaps of course, not the more recent crap). | ||
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:28 shizna wrote: i think blizzard are incapable of making good decisions. they failed at balancing WOW, diablo3 is is a bland failure and they're even struggling to change things that matter in SC2. seriously... why change hunter seeker speed? pointless. it's a PTR - grow some ballz and make the spell useful ffs. thor cannon is also a sack of crap spell that needs to be changed... then you also have certain units which are broken and make the game super shallow. that is all. Lmao a terran wanting buffs and complaining other races have broken units... that is all. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
A few days ago someone renamed the game to = TerranCraft... Wow i am actually surprised that a few players in Korea are actually calling Terran OP.... Another Korean Terran said it in DreamHacks yesterday too.... I never thought i would say this in my life but well I must say I am having trouble calling it "StarCraft" atm.... There is on thing thats undeniable atm...th game has become more of a "luck" game rather than a strategy game since you cannot get into each others base until its too late to know the attack....only one race can do this and its becomes so ridiculous that most of the terrans dont even scan to scout cos they are that safe with whatever build they do.....its very disapointing.... Dont scan to change their build and not be affected by it, its the part that troubles me the most.... | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On September 18 2011 17:32 PrObeLife wrote: I really don't know why Blizz have their focus on Zerg.. I am of the belief that stalkers are in desperate need of a buff vs marine/marauder. Many pro's (thanks nani) including Terran are standing up and acknowledging the strength of the Terran race (MVP twitter comments and POLT) which I think is great for bringing more awareness. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNph9C5NIDk&feature=youtu.be IMO it doesn't sound like blizz will be doing much about it until HOTS though based on reading this interview: http://au.gamespot.com/news/6325853/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm-qanda-with-dustin-browder It seems they feel Terran is fundamentally stronger due to a design flaw, with the issue being the amount of good/flexible units. The other races are going to have units added/removed in the coming expansion(s). I really think some of the pressure could be alleviated with a stalker buff but ONLY vs terran. I am top 8 masters and the state of TVP is actually making me feel discouraged and want to quit until HOTS comes out or it is patched. Please don't interpret this or turn it into a mindless QQ..I have kept my comments rage free and as concise as possible. TL does not want to be destroy there relationship with blizz bye hosting blizz bash threads. When I read users saying that Blizzard will not change anything until HOTS it just breaks my heart. We all bought StarCraft II for something that at the moment it's not. Why should we pay an extra buck to get where we were supposed to be now? You don't have to be a genius to look that there are 21 terrans in GSL and ask yourself a freaking question: "Is everything alright now? What does the community feel?" I bought a product and we should all have better support. Patches every month maybe. Hotfixes between patches. We talk 1000 pages on Neural Parasite when changes like that should happen faster. Ghosts should get a nerf in a patch, and if they see that in 2 months every teran is getting owned, buff it. But don't stay with your hands crossed and get amused at raged players. GSA: What are your thoughts on the latest StarCraft II balances? DB: It's going well for us. I don't know if the fans agree with that. Is he high or what? And ofc it's doing well for them, they got payed. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12026 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:40 SeaSwift wrote: I dunno. At the highest level, TF2 seems pretty balanced (with the original weaps of course, not the more recent crap). That's not true at all. With normal weapons the Heavy and Demoman are heavily imbalanced. 6v6 in TF2 is just laughable. It's not a game designed around that sort of playstyle and the only reason why it works is the fact they refuse to let it change. The guys who run it all play soldier so the only new weapons that ever get let in are the soldier ones and them themselves are terribly balanaced as well. The Equalizer shouldn't be in the game. Soldiers shouldn't be able to overextend like that and get away alive. It's just a broken game unless you want to play it just for fun. Sorry, that's a discussion for another topic. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
1. I feel the Blue flame nerf was excessive. The upgrade costs 150/150, I felt at it's current state it was already way too expensive to justify something you could handle with just blocking your ramp with the 2 queens you already made (why not just make a banshee lol). This nerf to it, at least without a huge cost reduction, is a bit harsh. It's hard to make any aggressive hellion opening without being all-in. Single factory, tech or reactor, is easily stopped by 2 queens, and then you just make roaches or spine/ling for BF/reactor as necessary, and double factory is lol u lose if you fail to do decent damage with such a late expo. 2. The FG nerf does nothing to change how many FG it takes to kill gateway or marines. This is a non-nerf. The only things changed are +1 FG to viking and ghosts, but that shouldn't be a big deal (ghosts raped infestors as it was, you wouldn't get a FG off against a competent ghost user). 3. The NP nerf doesn't change anything either. I have to admit I feel a bit.. uneasy about it - why in the world would they ever do anything to possibly make stupid 1a Protoss deathball play even easier and less skilled to pull off - but in reality I don't think it will change anything (i REALLY wish they let us test this change on the PTR first). Colossi, the main target of NP, could already snipe infestors with their equal range. So NP doesn't change anything there (although I'm sure more infestors will get killed, it just means, as one wise man said "MAKE MORE INFESTORS"). You could say infestors no longer hard counter mass thor, since now thors can snipe infestors ..... but no one countered mass thor with NP due to siege tanks just raping infestors, and thors having such high life anyways. Only bad mech didn't make siege tanks, and only bad zerg made infestors as the counter to thors. I'm sure many people are used to my bitching now, but the removal of the no-massive-units changes everything, and prevented imo a huge mistake from occuring. I think a lot of Zerg are overreacting about the NP change. I also think a lot of people think it's a bigger deal than it is, when in reality it doesn't change anything. I'm not sure if Blizzard is stupid for thinking these changes will make any different to infestors, or if they are geniuses and just want to make the infestor, say, just slightly less effective to use in extremely niche and rare occasions but still just as necessary for the situations it's needed in. Or maybe they could just let this be tested on ptr first... | ||
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:10 Belial88 wrote: Why is everyone so mad about the balance changes? Zerg should be very pleased, particularly with the overseer and blue flame nerfs. 1. I feel the Blue flame nerf was excessive. The upgrade costs 150/150, I felt at it's current state it was already way too expensive to justify something you could handle with just blocking your ramp with the 2 queens you already made (why not just make a banshee lol). This nerf to it, at least without a huge cost reduction, is a bit harsh. It's hard to make any aggressive hellion opening without being all-in. Single factory, tech or reactor, is easily stopped by 2 queens, and then you just make roaches or spine/ling for BF/reactor as necessary, and double factory is lol u lose if you fail to do decent damage with such a late expo. 2. The FG nerf does nothing to change how many FG it takes to kill gateway or marines. This is a non-nerf. The only things changed are +1 FG to viking and ghosts, but that shouldn't be a big deal (ghosts raped infestors as it was, you wouldn't get a FG off against a competent ghost user). 3. The NP nerf doesn't change anything either. I have to admit I feel a bit.. uneasy about it - why in the world would they ever do anything to possibly make stupid 1a Protoss deathball play even easier and less skilled to pull off - but in reality I don't think it will change anything (i REALLY wish they let us test this change on the PTR first). Colossi, the main target of NP, could already snipe infestors with their equal range. So NP doesn't change anything there (although I'm sure more infestors will get killed, it just means, as one wise man said "MAKE MORE INFESTORS"). You could say infestors no longer hard counter mass thor, since now thors can snipe infestors ..... but no one countered mass thor with NP due to siege tanks just raping infestors, and thors having such high life anyways. Only bad mech didn't make siege tanks, and only bad zerg made infestors as the counter to thors. I'm sure many people are used to my bitching now, but the removal of the no-massive-units changes everything, and prevented imo a huge mistake from occuring. I think a lot of Zerg are overreacting about the NP change. I also think a lot of people think it's a bigger deal than it is, when in reality it doesn't change anything. I'm not sure if Blizzard is stupid for thinking these changes will make any different to infestors, or if they are geniuses and just want to make the infestor, say, just slightly less effective to use in extremely niche and rare occasions but still just as necessary for the situations it's needed in. Or maybe they could just let this be tested on ptr first... I actually think that Zerg will bcome the most powerfull race after this patch. I can see ultras having marines and marauders for breakfast...Well, i must say congrats to the Zerg, but Toss will still be a cake walk for Terran....Ever since the buff of ghost and later patch removal of amulate, Toss has become a test race for the other races.... | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:28 shizna wrote: i think blizzard are incapable of making good decisions. they failed at balancing WOW, diablo3 is is a bland failure and they're even struggling to change things that matter in SC2. seriously... why change hunter seeker speed? pointless. it's a PTR - grow some ballz and make the spell useful ffs. thor cannon is also a sack of crap spell that needs to be changed... then you also have certain units which are broken and make the game super shallow. that is all. Go back to the battlenet forums. Seriously, what the hell do you think you will accomplish with a post like that? One thing is disagreeing with a change and giving a thought out, reasonable reason why, the other is just saying LOLOLOL BLIZZ SUCK LOLOLOL BUFF MEH! If you are going to have that attitude you might as well stop posting on TL, because all you will get is bans anyway. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883 | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
Why is everyone so mad about the balance changes? Zerg should be very pleased, particularly with the overseer and blue flame nerfs. I'm happy about theses nerf, i'm even happy about the fungal nerf, because i'm not biased and could see that a 46dmg fungal was OP against Protoss But the neural nerf has absolutely no logical reason to happen. other than allow protoss to 1a without micro and not being punished for it | ||
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:21 Protosnake wrote: I'm happy about theses nerf, i'm even happy about the fungal nerf, because i'm not biased and could see that a 46dmg fungal was OP against Protoss But the neural nerf has absolutely no logical reason to happen. other than allow protoss to 1a without micro and not being punished for it this "1a without micro" is absolutelly untrue. The Toss is the race that relies highest on Magic....Zerg infact is the one with the least Magic therefore if such a thing as a "1a" or close to it, it surelly must be zerg....even terran with all their op units, rely more on Magic than the zerg....so....this Theory of yours has been disproven... | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:26 cbueno wrote: this "1a without micro" is absolutelly untrue. The Toss is the race that relies highest on Magic....Zerg infact is the one with the least Magic therefore if such a thing as a "1a" or close to it, it surelly must be zerg....even terran with all their op units, rely more on Magic than the zerg....so....this Theory of yours has been disproven... Not really, you failed to show any examples, you failed to prove this theory of yours. Why is protoss so much more micro dependant? | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
I actually think that Zerg will bcome the most powerfull race after this patch. I can see ultras having marines and marauders for breakfast...Well, i must say congrats to the Zerg, but Toss will still be a cake walk for Terran....Ever since the buff of ghost and later patch removal of amulate, Toss has become a test race for the other races.... Well MM was bad against Zerg as it was (pure ling or ling/bane or even ling/infestor) and Ultras always dominated in TvZ (Ultra/Bane is amazing) but I think most Zerg go for BL/Infestor since Ultras can't attack a turtle and siege tanks are the big problem for Zerg more than anything. PvT has it's own issues, but I think PvZ is balance fine, although going through a hard metagame change. I'm happy about theses nerf, i'm even happy about the fungal nerf, because i'm not biased and could see that a 46dmg fungal was OP against Protoss But the neural nerf has absolutely no logical reason to happen. other than allow protoss to 1a without micro and not being punished for it You are aware that FG still kills everything Protoss has in the same number of hits right? There are a few unit differences - Colossi take 13 instead of 12, and VR I believe now take... what, 7 instead of 6 now? But your statement on FG seems just... uninformed. Either you think FG is still OP, or it wasn't OP at all, because this FG change does nothing. I agree the NP nerf makes no sense. I don't know if "allow" is the right word, more like 'encourage' Protoss 1a deathball play again, which saddens me a bit, but in reality it doesn't change anything. Colossi could already snipe infestors, good Protoss already did that and bad Protoss didn't. There was no unit Protoss, or Terran for that matter, that had 7 or 8 range, but not 9, except for the thor. I think a blizzard customer service rep said that the thor was the reason for the NP change, but that makes no sense since mass thor is bad, no one used infestors to deal with mech or thors, and siege tanks rape infestors. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:34 Roflhaxx wrote: Not really, you failed to show any examples, you failed to prove this theory of yours. Why is protoss so much more micro dependant? reason is simple, A-Move a Protoss army into a equal ressources/upgrade Zerg or Terran army and you will lose everytime. Micro is essential for Protoss army to become cost efficient, because Gateway Units suck for cost without micro.. | ||
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:53 freetgy wrote: reason is simple, A-Move a Protoss army into a equal ressources/upgrade Zerg or Terran army and you will lose everytime. Micro is essential for Protoss army to become cost efficient, because Gateway Units suck for cost without micro.. well said..its funny how zerg think that the whole toss army moves like a roach.... | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On September 18 2011 19:58 cbueno wrote: well said..its funny how zerg think that the whole toss army moves like a roach.... He kind of has a point doesn't he? He's just talking about collossus death balls vs 1.4 zerg army. If the deathball is in a closed area, you can FF and be really safe while outranging with collossi. Right now it's theoretically whoever is quick enough with neural parasite/focusing down of infestors (which i dont think is necessarily fair since zerg runs around with 16 infestors to 6 collossi). Post patch it will depend on protoss REALLY not watching for the infestors and missing forcefields. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Anyone that has ever said all this does is promote 1 a races doesn't understand what level the game is being balanced around. | ||
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